Instead of buffing mages, can we just nerf adcs

Death by Glamour·Aug 16, 2017·94 votes·3,219 views

Riot please do not take the easy option and give the entire mage class broad stroke buffs to AP itemisation. Sure short term it may placate the boards as it shoves adcs back into botlane.

But the game doesn't need more damage, I'm already fed up with getting three shot by the right clickers I really do not want to endure getting globaled by a mage.

Ardent censor is a good start but let's also have a good look at AD items in general and work from their.

Who knows we may end up with some melee only items that adcs can't abuse

119 Comments

Best princess EUAug 16, 201759 votes

as a mage main, can we start by nerfing how adc can reach late game with 2 items?

Death by GlamourAug 16, 20176 votes

please yes...

warpenguin555Aug 16, 201725 votes

As bad as AP items are, buffing them wouldn't fix the problem that marksmen are disgusting. I'd rather see a wave of nerfs to marksmen items and marksmen. Buffing AP items because marksmen are OP would just cause more balance problems. AP Items should get changed in the pre-season to make them feel good, but marksmen should just be straight up nerfed.

Meeks011Aug 17, 20177 votes

cause more balance problems

Exactly what Riot is best at.

LordGeovanniAug 18, 20173 votes

Ive never claimed a brother over the internet before but you are now my brother.

RainXBladeAug 18, 20172 votes

This is the truest thing I've seen all day.

doubleguacAug 17, 20172 votes

I agree with you and OP. I'd rather see damage go down a bit across the board.

That being said, burst is generally a good counter to sustained dps/lifesteal. If a mage can't kill an adc with 1 rotation, the ADC wins. This is especially true right now, since marksmen are killing mages in 3-4 shots. Even a little bit of extra burst damage can make a huge difference here. So, I think buffing AP items will basically buff a classic mid-game counter to marksmen.

But, ya, not ideal. No one likes getting insta-gibbed. I do think this will help make ADCs less dominant, but I'd much rather see mid-game marksmen damage go down.

Death by GlamourAug 17, 20172 votes

Burst is good. Aslong as it is not like viegar or Annie style.

Syndras kit is a good example even though it's pretty stupid currently as she can miss all her abilities and just press R for an easy kill on a squishy support.

AhristocatsAug 16, 201714 votes

YES WE CAN

AirKingNeoAug 16, 20173 votes

nerf tanks then.

Tired of bruisers not being viable because tanks are so tanky and thus adcs have to be so damaging.

PB4UAMEAug 17, 20176 votes

You're misplacing cause and effect.

RIOT has a raging hardon for ADCs and AD assassins and they like these champions having 4 digit damage numbers, with their extra crit icon, and different font color, so all the LC$ fans go crazy when one of the best players in the world gets virtually one shot whenever this happens.

So that tanks had a snowballs chance in hell of doing anything, they then had to get "buffed" but not really, as their items are still worse than they were in the first two seasons. They just got un-nerfed a bit, years later, which relatively was a buff, plus they got new items which while statistically are not any better than before, open up some interesting corner cases. Then the tank rework happened and now three tanks are just. . . unbalanced. Not necessarily OP or UP, they just don't fit well with the rest of the roster, and still need additional tuning imo.

Tanks weren't the problem to begin with.

Additionally "tanks being too tanky" is not an argument for ADCs to be so damaging to everything.

RIOT should have used % hp damage earlier on, and really made APCs the tank killers, leaving ADCs to be the objective destroyers. . . instead of making ADCs tank busters, objective takers, tower destroyers, and the primary teamfight DPS, plus letting them be psuedo assassins to anything with less than 3,000HP and 150+ armor. Oh, and they're all hyper carries. Yes, all of them, even the ones that are lane bullies.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 17, 20173 votes

You know that the buffs to tanks only nerfed bruisers further? Like bramle vest is the old bami cinder. once a tank has that you lose every trade lul and adcs dont give a shit.

Death by GlamourAug 17, 20173 votes

What started all of it was the change to last whisper.

AirKingNeoAug 18, 20172 votes

No. This started way back in fucking season 4 when the new developers came in as the old ones went to work on a new game, and the new devs have a huge hard-on for tanks and hates bruisers more than Morello hated healing.

PB4UAMEAug 19, 20172 votes

It started in season 1, actually, when RIOT decided to design around Ashe as the pinnacle of balance for whatever reason.

Bruisers were mostly created in late season 1 through most of season 2, with a smattering of 'em since. The ones in this particular range though, all were designed with the capacity to kill an Ashe while she had Flash available in mind. This then cemented flash's place in the meta, and slowly made it more and more difficult to touch, but it also established the president of the melee vs ranged match up for LoL.

Fighters were supposed to have windowed opportunities where they could either A, get to a target and CC them, while bursting them down, B, get to the target then keep dashing/chasing after them, C stick to targets like glue, or destroy them utterly, but have trouble reaching them in the first place.

Well, that was all based around the target being ranged, with spamable soft CC and also hard CC for peel, and being able to create at least a 450 unit gap (though I think flash was still 800 range when this first started) at the press of a button. Against an ADC like Kog, with much less peel, those fighter's kits no longer felt fair.

And so ranged AD players bitched and whined to RIOT and then chain nerfed most bruisers into shadows of their former selves (better nerf Irelia, and Olaf in general became memes for a reason) while gutting their itemization, destroying almost ALL of their base stats in some form or another, as well as removing parts of skills, lowering ratios, increasing cooldowns, etc.

Meanwhile, RIOT has also steadily been nerfing all defense itemization wholesale. Compare current Randuin's to Seasons 1 + 2, or how about Warmogs giving less than 65% the hp it used to, let alone Thornmail (rip), or Sunfire Cape, or Frozen Heart. Not to mention, FoN, HoG, Shureliya's, Soul Shroud, Runic Bulwark, hell, even fucking Leviathan were all removed.

While also buffing Crit, nerfing the cost of AD and making it way more accessible, increasing the availability of Attack Speed, and then throwing way more defensive stats and abilities on the ADC items, and also giving them powerful unique passives on items that are themselves even cheaper. Oh, and they buffed the ever loving shit out of support items, so now all supports can heal and shield instead of just enchanters, and they can peel bruisers off their intended targets much easier.

So defensive is now way weaker, Bruisers themselves were directly nerfed in almost all cases, ADCs are stronger, their supports are way stronger and have more tools to peel people off with, and they haven't tried to do the sweeping, systemic changes they need to to help out those who have been left behind.

They've recently been trying to help tanks after fucking them over something fierce, and its only after that put them in a good spot that they've been faring better than bruisers-- outside of niches in competitive play affecting less than .001% of players.

AirKingNeoAug 18, 20172 votes

Nope.

Look at the history of the game. You well see, every time tanks get buffed, ADC buffs follow, and then bruisers get worse. Only the season 6 marksmen update and very small exceptions break this rule.

That's fundamentally incorrect. If APCs were the only tank busters, then assassins won't be viable at all. Also, % HP damage would be a terrible idea. Simple explaination: 10% max HP magic damage effect deals 6% of the tank's HP and 8% of the squishy's.

Then nerf Essence Reaver's last game and nerf Crit as a whole. Maybe ADC lane bullies shouldn't auto come back into the late game with IE.

Death by GlamourAug 16, 20171 votes

how many accounts do you have...

or do you just change name every other week :D

AhristocatsAug 17, 20172 votes

i only have 2 accounts, this one and an other blitzcrank only account in d2 (im ur blitzcrank)

also, yes i change my name often, used to be: wtf darius adc gH God janna x rubick sona x rubick

Dasdi96Aug 16, 201710 votes

Yeah, we should just do class wide nerfs to adc items. ADC damage and sustain is simply too high ever since the marksman update in season 6.

LordGeovanniAug 18, 20171 votes

adcs yea crit items most definately. not adc items Because most adc items are actually true fighter items that adcs do better with because they have range saftey mobility and shorter cooldown more high damage skills besides the 1 spam skill fighters get to have and the other 2 have super long cooldowns

ExecutionerAug 19, 20171 votes

True fighter items? Which ones?

LordGeovanniAug 19, 20171 votes

item 3153 item 3087 item 3156 item 3812 . items from when fighters didnt have to build 6 items with defensive stats to no instantly die (not going into lifesteal being a defensive stat that marksmen and assassins are now the only people who can spare a spot for it outside of item 1055 .

ExecutionerAug 19, 20171 votes

I mean static shiv is not a fighter item at all. Not even close to when it first came out. Crit chance and attack speed? Along with botrk, I mean damage, life steal, %hp, and a active? Why would not be better on a marksman.

The other two items that is understandable.

However static shiv, and botrk those were basically custom made for us.

Although if you wanna add in the types like Tryndamere and yasuo that is agreeable.

LordGeovanniAug 19, 20171 votes

They were fighter items. most lifesteal items were made for fighters because unlike marksmen they are in a dangerous spot in a team fight and cant avoid damage and still be effective. the items are better on a marksmen because the can leverage the items damage sooner because of their range more consistently because of their range and because they are ranged they will almost never get dove by multiple people at the same time in a team fight even though that is the ideal scenario its not in the least bit realistic so the defensive stats are more effective allowing them not to have to build as much because they wont be hit by 3-5 different people as a standard only if they play extremely badly. most fighters were crit carries in the earlier days on league not just Tryndamere and far before Yasuo was even released Fiora Irelia Jax Jayce MasterYi Garen had a crit option that wasnt uncommon. item 3078 item 3087 was a common fighter build on the champions i listed and far more. the only reason fighters build 6 tank items now is because they cant survive long enough to leverage high damage build.

ExecutionerAug 19, 20171 votes

THen why say they are fighter items when they are going crit carry builds? Marksman did the same thing going crit builds, yet they are not a marksman item?

This is mostly going off of static shiv, it was a ADC Item. The Attack Damage Carry item. Also lifesteal was not plentiful back then. So they were not really fighter items either. They were Attack Damage Carry items.

LordGeovanniAug 20, 20171 votes

because back then even though marksmen did build item 3031 (notice i didnt call this as a fighter item even though it was built on a good amount.) Marksmen didnt aim for high crit chance build then they got what ever gave them the most ad. with maybe 1 attack speed item. And because said items were made for fighter not adcs just that adcs can make more efficent use of anything fighters can.

Meeks011Aug 17, 20178 votes

I'd like a thornmail to increase my survival time against an ADC by more than 0.5 seconds please and thank you.

ExecutionerAug 17, 20171 votes

Where, and how are you dying within .5 seconds.

NineTailedMysticAug 17, 20176 votes

Not what he meant. He's saying that a Thornmail increases his current survival time by only .5s

The DeckownerAug 17, 20176 votes

Rito's balance philosophy has always been instead of nerf the bullshit, buff everything else, then nerf the bullshit, and eventually powercreep happens.

Sad TyrantAug 17, 20176 votes

I think we need to nerf damage all together

Death by GlamourAug 17, 20173 votes

Agreed

ZardoAug 16, 20174 votes

Why not both?

Death by GlamourAug 17, 20173 votes

You would just replace one over bearing damage dealer with another.

Mages still deal a crap tonne of damage it's just the metal is shifting away from burst damage to poke and utility mages

dominusxAug 17, 20174 votes

they dont give a fuck. its all about adc. I'm scrapping half my champ pool and going for the Draven main status again. I'll keep my Darius and Rengar from the champ pool cause nothing else is worth anyway.

PopcornBunniAug 16, 20173 votes

Instead of nerfing marksmen can we just nerf item 3087 damage and remove passive crits from it?

MizayaAug 16, 20178 votes

Remove the ability for it to stack with RFC, make the bonus magic damage scale with crit or something while nerfing the base damage, and as compensation give like 5% AS or something.

Or do it the other way around and nerf the stats, while allowing it to have more damage but only late game.

Handin Out NapsAug 17, 20173 votes

S u p p o r t s a r e f i n e t h o u g h

ThefrostyvikingAug 17, 20173 votes

Just nerf static shiv+rapid fire that Draven Tristana Twitch Caitlyn "abuse" and you´ll be rid of "bursty" marksmen.

Then nerf item 3504 so they won't have an ENTIRE items worth of attackspeed extra just by sitting near their support from a early stage since the item is so cheap.

But that offers the alternative to make the item a lot more expensive, a lategame support item of a kind, this could be a valuable thing too.

Then buff DPS mages so they are actually good against tanks since Riot keep insisting on making it so that "consistent damage>tanks>burst>Consistent damage"

I tried playing Cassio into both Cho and Seju and neither noticed my existence more than a free kill despite that i was doing well at the time ._.

Then balance and game health will be better just with those few small things, i think.

Poop JellyAug 16, 20172 votes

Aren't they nerfed?

Death by GlamourAug 16, 20172 votes

who adcs?

DragonIgnisAug 17, 20172 votes

http://knityorkcity.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/tumblr_inline_n0utzbZyR81rjw0ve.gif

Death by GlamourAug 17, 20172 votes

Sorry to repeat myself again but you would just replace one overbearing damage dealer with another.

Mages do not need buffs the meta is just shifting away from burst to poke and utility

AimléssAug 17, 20172 votes

Yeah because adcs are the reason mages do no damage versus tanks. Just leave with your annoying circle jerk.

Death by GlamourAug 18, 20172 votes

well explain why they arent...

deadlychuckAug 17, 20172 votes

You don't just "nerf ADCs" riot has created a schema where you'll need to nerf everyone! Marksmen, Assassins, and Tanks. Then probably fighters to some degree too.

Everything is so centered on AD dynamics now that you can't really create a viable distinction between AP and AD in class designs, so making AP strong just turns all the mages into assassins, but making it weak turns them all into glorified supports.

Mind you the Support/Mage item division of the MYMU didn't help mages when it comes to keeping up with the gradual power creep in the game.