@riot - shen should be doing great in this meta

Death by Glamour·Jan 10, 2017·95 votes·3,965 views

But he isn't

With everything happening bot Lane you would expect that the all seeing tanky ninja would be in his prime. His global ult was designed for this after all. Yet his winrate of 47 to 48 % says otherwise.

It was always the case that shen would lose his Lane which he still does and win bot Lane thanks to his roams via ult. This isn't the case.

The meta is fairly good for tanks, well the ones that deal actual damage. Shen needs grasp for trades and sustain in Lane yet the survivability of CoC is what makes cc tanks so powerful currently.

I understand that shen has to been kept in a weakened state because eof his ult but as I said earlier the meta favours his class and his ult yet his winrate is in the gutter, what gives?

So riot, what are your plans for shen?

85 Comments

Shuriman CuratorJan 10, 201724 votes

I agree that Shen is meh right now. I dont even run Grasp anymore, not worth it.

He is going to take an indirect nerf once riot nerfs CotC.

If riot doesn't want to buff is damage, IMO...

Reduce his energy costs and/or add the 50% damage reduction back to his E.

Death by GlamourJan 10, 20176 votes

Would be great to add the damage reduction but I doubt it simply because of his new w and shield from passive. Personally I would prefer that riot thickened up his e hotbox, it feels like a Nida spear now after all the nerfs

One thing I do miss is the sustain from his old q, I doubt we will see it return but let me dream.

Shuriman CuratorJan 10, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sk6EhvK,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-10T13:11:28.418+0000)

Would be great to add the damage reduction but I doubt it simply because of his new w and shield from passive. Personally I would prefer that riot thickened up his e hotbox, it feels like a Nida spear now after all the nerfs

One thing I do miss is the sustain from his old q, I doubt we will see it return but let me dream.

Wider E hitbox for sure. I miss the old q to be honest. I remember taunt flashing and throwing a q to execute enemies lol

SkiasJan 10, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I agree that Shen is meh right now. I dont even run Grasp anymore, not worth it.

He is going to take an indirect nerf once riot nerfs CotC.

If riot doesn't want to buff is damage, IMO...

Reduce his energy costs and/or add the 50% damage reduction back to his E.

As long as Shen's ult is global, his power cap is pretty much topped out. He won't be able to get significant buffs without changes to his ult window.

Ariel the CruelJan 10, 20178 votes

My money is on the damn spirit sword.

Personal opinion: it's the most awkward mechanic in the game. And the pay-off for mastery is. . . Meh. I preferred the old Shen. Sure he wasn't to most exciting champion in the game, but there's value in sometimes just having a low damage immovable brick.

RozairJan 11, 20179 votes

I mained shen and then they reworked him. I also mained malz back in the day. I wont touch either of them now.

Ariel the CruelJan 11, 20174 votes

I never mained him, but he was my highest mastery for a good while. Made things really awkward after the rework and I could barely use him anymore.

Onkel MalteJan 11, 20173 votes

Malz mains unite! I hate his Updated Version ;--;

Oakleaf RangerJan 11, 20173 votes

I don't mind his kit currently but I fucking hate his numbers right now so much. RIP Malzahar my sweet prince

YumaS2AstralJan 11, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I don't mind his kit currently but I fucking hate his numbers right now so much. RIP Malzahar my sweet prince

They had to gut his numbers due to his passive which is potentially broken.

It is like hey added that passive as an excuse to nerf him overall.

Oakleaf RangerJan 11, 20173 votes

His passive has also received multiple nerfs as well. Any potential for it being broken has been taken care of. Now he just tickles people in lane with his shitty damage numbers.

YumaS2AstralJan 11, 20172 votes

{quoted}

His passive has also received multiple nerfs as well. Any potential for it being broken has been taken care of. Now he just tickles people in lane with his shitty damage numbers.

Honestly I wouldn't mind his numbers right now if they just reverted the changes to his W, which were completely unecessary and made his voidlings too easy to take care of.

GayFluffyUnicornJan 11, 20172 votes

It's a shame what riot did to shen and that they don't have the guts to undo his rework which is a complete failure. Shen was my go to toplaner when i didn't know what to pick. He was neither strong nor weak, a very well balanced champ but he isn'T flashy so he must go. HAven't touched shen ever since the rework.

THE RlVER KlNGJan 10, 20177 votes

So should Tahm, but he's been in the gutter for half a season now with nary a word from Riot.

BeatzBoyFTWJan 10, 20177 votes

What I want for him is just to be able to devour Red & Blue buff. I don't see how is it any bad at all when we have someone who can insta-clear/steal it Ivern or someone who can pick it up & throw it for damage Syndra .

vOmvbrawfUJan 10, 20175 votes

Yeah, people that are experienced with Tahm have over a 60% winrate on him.

SpârkyJan 10, 20174 votes

People need to stop saying "people who are experienced with ___ are better and have ___ winrate on him/her" Any champ if you take time to master should have a better winrate. Take yasuo for example. Someone who is first trying yas should have a bad time vs someone who has 100+ games on him.

vOmvbrawfUJan 10, 20177 votes

No, you're failing to see the point. If people that actually know how to play Tahm can have a 60% winrate with him, he obviously isn't weak. His overall winrate is low because the majority of people playing him have no fucking clue what they're doing because they have 0-5 games with the champion.

You're yasuo comment literally makes my point. Why do you want to balance a champion around people playing the champ for the first time? That doesn't make sense.

SpârkyJan 11, 20173 votes

Ok let me clarify. I don't want champs to all be balanced around first time champs thats what annie is for but your failing to see my point. Saying that people who are good at the champion doens't make him or her strong. That just means that they have taken time to master the champion. I'd balance it around what the middle ground people winrates people who don't main the champion but play them a few times (maybe like people who have like 40-50 games?) All im saying is just because people who put 200+ games on a champ better have a damn 60% winrate or the champion is actually just bad Vladimir

vOmvbrawfUJan 11, 20172 votes

So then what do you think the winrate should be for champs being played by experienced players?

SpârkyJan 11, 20171 votes

I just think people shouldnt use "oh the experienced players are doing good with X champ so that means hes balanced" thats all i was saying. Because obviously if you have 150+ games on the champion then you'll have a good winrate because you'd be good at the champion.

vOmvbrawfUJan 11, 20172 votes

Uh. You say we shouldn't use experienced players as a balance point. So we should use people that don't know how to play the champion as a balance point? I'm sorry, but you're not actually making any sense here.

SpârkyJan 11, 20171 votes

I'd hope riot would use a huge sample size not just one class of people. I'd hope they'd balanced a champ based on how the champion performs in each rank (bronze, silver, gold, etc) not just the top tier performing people. All im again saying is that saying that saying that experienced players have X winrate on them does not make that champion balanced, or unbalanced.

vOmvbrawfUJan 11, 20172 votes

There can be players experienced on him in bronze, silver, etc. Nobody said anything about rank having anything to do with it. I just don't understand how people can say Shen is in a bad spot when people that actually play Shen have a 57% winrate on him.

THE RlVER KlNGJan 10, 20172 votes

That hardly constitutes that he's good. TK has some of the lowest winrates in the game. Just because a small playerbase can do well with him doesn't mean he's good - it means its a small sample size that could easily change. At one point top TK players with 150+ games had a 33% winrate. Sample sizes mean everything.

GayFluffyUnicornJan 11, 20172 votes

It just means that he is strong but players here expect freelo champs instead of champs who actually need time investment to learn them properly.

THE RlVER KlNGJan 13, 20171 votes

So I should just play Vi, Ahri, Hecarim, Twitch, Caitlyn, who get 53% + winrates off the bat?

vOmvbrawfUJan 10, 20177 votes

The reason shen's winrate isn't very good is because of the people playing him. His average games played ranks 24th for top laners. If you look at his winrate for more experienced players, it is high.

I've played with Shens. I have yet to have 1 single Shen ult into bot lane. I've seen plenty go mid or help a jg in their own jg, but still have yet to be ulted by a shen in bot lane. That's because I'm not playing with good Shens.

47% winrate means nothing when the champ ranks 24th in terms of experience. Shen "mains" have upwards of 57% winrate. That's far from bad.

tl;dr: Just because inexperienced players are playing Shen, doesn't mean he is bad. Stop looking at a single winrate number.

ZephyrDrakeJan 10, 20177 votes

well unlike other tanky top laners Shen really doesn't do a whole lot of damage and the damage he does do is limited to him actually being able to auto something. His ult is nice but you don't need top lane in order to do a dive bot and a teleport is more than enough if you absolutely need your top laner there. There really isn't much of a reason to pick Shen when you can pick Poppy and do what he does while still providing relevant damage, or Maokai which can still do decent damage while being a nightmare to take down. Shen is just a meatshield that provides small amounts of utility and nothing else vs the rest of the tank roster that does the same as him but bring more reliable damage on top of that

WinterkillJan 10, 20176 votes

When Riot reworked him they gave him this stupid spirit sword mechanic . . . . . that over complicated what he used to do. When Riot restores Shen to what he used to be and isn't reliant on a stupid mechanic that doesn't even fit him . . . . . he will be better.

GoodJobManJan 10, 20178 votes

not true, the sword mechanic improved him in my opinion, he has great dueling power combined with his W and the slow you get from pulling the sword through them helps so they don't get away. It isn't complicated if you a competent human being and just read the skills. All these boring press one button then do nothing until that ability is back up champs are not allowing for fun gameplay. So adding some depth by encouraging you to find ways to pull the sword through them to do more damage helps a lot.

Death by GlamourJan 10, 20173 votes

the only thing i miss about old Q is the heal, he was far to safe in lane vs the likes of renekton or riven so I understand why it was removed

Gene FreakzJan 10, 20173 votes

I use him as support and am currently 8-1

ModKnightsKemplarJan 11, 20173 votes

Shen rework wrecked the champ, no lie. He has to go through a rework to be anything worth playing at this point, imo.

It's one of the few reworks that I think actually made a champ worse, both thematically and gameplay-wise. He's gonna need another one before it's worth talking about his balance to me.

grugJan 11, 20173 votes

shen does fine this meta I believe.

shen's presence alone is a major threat to any sort of teamfighting or close trade.

the reason his winrates are low is due to people not ulting at correct times and people picking power pushing top laners to beat the shit out the lane while he leaves.

Fondling GemsJan 10, 20172 votes

Think it is because tanks have to run CotC to be really strong in this meta, Shen E is on a long enough CD and unreliable enough that he doesn't do exceptionally well with it. Especially since Using E will also proc his passive and CotC shield is so large that the additional passive shield is kinda wasted so he usually gets less out of CotC even when he lands it.

invisiblecat1Jan 10, 20172 votes

The thing is that before he can hit 6 the first tower bot lane will already be dead

BijornJan 11, 20172 votes

Its funny because a Rioter has stated that the the sword mechanic did not hit the mark for Shen and it was a mistake (this was stated about a month ago ill try to dig it up) so we will see them come back to shen at one point but that won't be for a very long time.

Mr UrgodJan 11, 20173 votes

"come back to Shen"

hahahaha get it

YuGiHoJan 11, 20171 votes

maybe In the next class update?

Mr UrgodJan 11, 20171 votes

I was talking about the pun, how Shen's Sword comes back to him...?

KoKobotoJan 11, 20172 votes

I agreed with the nerf to his Q damage cause it was kinda OP. However they also nerfed the damage when he drags the spirit blade through a target which means even when you play him at a higher level it's not even worth it. I don't really like Shen but he was overnerfed like Ashe.

And A Real HieroJan 11, 20172 votes

Full revert.

BlåbæretJan 11, 20172 votes

Shen is just useless right now. Pointless picking him.

Troll for TrumpJan 10, 20171 votes

Poppy is popular right now, and so are her counters. Unfortunately, most of her counters (Darius, for example), Also sht on Shen. The 2 popular tank top laners, Poppy and Shen, also have enough cc to shutdown Shen.

This meta, and the last one aren't good for him in terms of laning. For bot though, it's helpful.

If shen support/jg could work, that might've been more successful

cope momentJan 11, 20176 votes

how can shen shut down himself

Troll for TrumpJan 11, 20174 votes

Oops, meant naut

YuGiHoJan 11, 20177 votes

EVEN SHEN BEATS SHEN! lol

SammystormJan 11, 20172 votes

get shen'ed?

Meta PhytonJan 11, 20171 votes

Shen is so fun. Running item 3158 and spell CD reduction mastery on him, taking teleport and then 45% CD on his ult ... I call the role 'Team / Tower Guardian'