This board has such a huge Mage bias and it makes having objective discussion impossible

HateDaddy··117 votes·5,901 views

It's actually pretty disgusting. I thought the tank bias was bad but honestly, even when being wrong or irrational, tank mains just want one thing: they want to feel like they're actually tanky. Whether you agree with that or not, hey that's one thing but they don't have these super unrealistic expectations.

Meanwhile, if you ever mention anything AP needing nerfed, you immediately get major backlash from the Mage players. If mages ever get nerfed when they're clearly fucking broken, oh no, it's not fair that the 58% winrate Mage is getting nerfed but oh man 48% winrate zed isn't getting nerfed!!

Then there's this hilarious expectation that mages should be good at everything. "Hexdrinker is bullshit, this champion that I can't just click on and win is bullshit, AD is bullshit they get to have everything!" "Why can't I 100-0 their ADC, aoe cc their entire enemy team, take 50% of the enemy teams health, protect and enable my carries and do it all while being from long range and safe??" Seriously, it's absurd how Mage players think their champions should be able to do everything with no downside.

Meanwhile, AP itemization is still the best itemization in the game that double dips and in some cases triple dips into stats. AP itemization is rarely even purchased for its passives or actives (obvious exceptions are Zhonyas and tear) because you can get CDR, HP, mana regen in almost any item combination so who fucking cares if you don't need a passive on an item like item 3116 , buy it anyway because it gives 100 AP for some reason. No other class can do that, they have to seriously think about every item they buy and the passives they come with because raw stats aren't just good enough.

And hey, I'm not hating on mages honestly. I understand AP itemization does have drawbacks and I understand there has been times where mages were weak (but that has rarely happened). But the degree to which these Mage players on this board bitch and exaggerate about how weak their champions are or their inability to look at anything objectively is such a clear sign of bias.

Seriously, try to point out something AP is overpowered and you'll get downvote bombed so fast. Rylais is fucking broken right now, pros are even building it on Syndra lmao. It shouldn't be giving 100 AP. It gives too many stats, it's not even about its cost. The cost as it is right now is fine but that item gives too much shit. item 3001 is basically rushed by every Mage in AP vs AP match-ups and this item is hilariously cheap for all the shit it gives. And again, while the cost probably IS justified, an item giving that much MR while offering CDR and a nice chunk of AP is laughable.

I'll probably get downvoted into oblivion but it just gets annoying as shit when you can speak objectively on this board about everything except mages. I mean, look at them being mad about vlad being nerfed when he's literally 1v5ing in competitive play lmao. So whatever, I honestly just wanted to get this off my chest because ts ridiculous how circle jerky this board is but the Mage bias is so bad it's not even funny.

278 Comments

Eedat58 votes

Remember when Sona had a 58% win rate, yet half the boards adamantly defended that she was fine?

dunder kill73 votes

Remember when Vlad had a 45% win rate yet 90% of the boards insisted he was still broken?

Oh wait thats right now

Miraweave12 votes

{quoted}

Remember when Vlad had a 45% win rate yet 90% of the boards insisted he was still broken?

Oh wait thats right now

Meanwhile he's pick/ban in competitive play and has been since his rework.

dunder kill39 votes

Meanwhile professional 5v5 teams filled with the most coordinated and best players in the entire world have almost zero relevance to the 99.99999999% of our game experience

HateDaddy16 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile professional 5v5 teams filled with the most coordinated and best players in the entire world have almost zero relevance to the 99.99999999% of our game experience

It matters, this game is largely balanced around high Elo and competitive play as it should be. This game would be complete garbage if it was balanced around anything other than that, plat being the lowest it should go and even then that's debatable.

Also, winrate means nothing. Vlad isn't a great solo queue champ in most elos, but he is a problem in competitive and high Elo.

dunder kill15 votes

this game is largely balanced around high Elo and competitive play as it should be.

Implying high ELO is even remotely close to competitive play

he is a problem in competitive and high Elo.

Still 45% win rate in Plat+ ELO.

http://champion.gg/champion/Vladimir/Top

The game should be balanced around High ELO (Plat-Diamond). Impying it should be balanced around competitive is just silly. Even the Pros admit playing SoloQ in Challenger isnt even the same game as playing in LCS

HateDaddy5 votes

{quoted}

Implying high ELO is even remotely close to competitive play

Still 45% win rate in Plat+ ELO.

http://champion.gg/champion/Vladimir/Top

The game should be balanced around High ELO (Plat-Diamond). Impying it should be balanced around competitive is just silly. Even the Pros admit playing SoloQ in Challenger isnt even the same game as playing in LCS

I'm not saying high Elo and competitive are the same thing. Im saying that's what riot balances around as they should.

dunder kill8 votes

Riot only balances around competitive selectively. These past two patches are the exception because this is the patch Worlds will be on.

If you have any doubt, go watch any of Regi's (the owner of TSM) rants about how Riot heavily screws over LCS teams with constant balance changes throughout the seasons. I don't think you are more qualified to speak of the issue than the owner of one of the oldest and most successful LCS teams ever.

HateDaddy6 votes

{quoted}

Riot only balances around competitive selectively. These past two patches are the exception because this is the patch Worlds will be on.

If you have any doubt, go watch any of Regi's (the owner of TSM) rants about how Riot heavily screws over LCS teams with constant balance changes throughout the seasons. I don't think you are more qualified to speak of the issue than the owner of one of the oldest and most successful LCS teams ever.

Sure I am. We're all qualified to speak on this issue since we all play the same game, even if ts practically a different game at any level. I'll refrain from comment about Regis rants until I see videos, you wouldn't mind linking me to said rants by any chance, would you?

Miraweave5 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile professional 5v5 teams filled with the most coordinated and best players in the entire world have almost zero relevance to the 99.99999999% of our game experience

So it's ok for something to be wildly imbalanced in high tier play just because bad players can't use it properly?

Eedat7 votes

The game should be balanced around High ELO (Plat-Diamond).

You should have read further

ZT Xperimentor33 votes

Meanwhile marksmen have been good at just about everything since their 'update'. Tank; graves & anyone with more than 1 lifesteal item Jungler; kindred, quinn & graves Burst; draven, jihn, lucian, kindred, & kalista Poke; caitlyn, jinx, ezreal, varus, & missfortune Utility; ashe, sivir, caitlyn, jihn & kalista Assassin; quinn, vayne, & twitch

HateDaddy12 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yaHPLZ2Q,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-09-10T02:42:45.753+0000)

Meanwhile marksmen have been good at just about everything since their 'update'. Tank; graves & anyone with more than 1 lifesteal item Jungler; kindred, quinn & graves Burst; draven, jihn, lucian, kindred, & kalista Poke; caitlyn, jinx, ezreal, varus, & missfortune Utility; ashe, sivir, caitlyn, jihn & kalista Assassin; quinn, vayne, & twitch

Ok and are you going to ignore the Mage update? Where Malz, Swain, vlad, Brand and Viktor crowded everything out in mid and top often times was either Swain, Vlad or Lissandra? I don't disagree with your point but understand the ADC rework was a major class update that tried to diversify the most stale boring class in the game, many of which the players on this board wanted for champions like Graves and Quinn. The mages had broken champions too during MYMU but I don't see anyone complaining about that?

That's bias my friend.

ZT Xperimentor11 votes

Mid and top are only two lanes, marksmen had crowded out all 5 positions during their hay-day; I'm saying the mages aren't as powerful compared to other power-spikes given this seasons changes. Another simple example; only those 3 mages were remotely problematic to deal with (when used by a competent player), marksmen had 7 that could still steamroll games even when behind or by lackluster players (graves, kindred, kalista, ashe, sivir, jihn, & lucian).

The mage update was supposed to do the same, but was more of a nerf to the majority than anything. It's double standards by riot's balancing, just compare the nerfs to vlad against any of the marksmen in the last few patches. I'm not saying can't be frustrating, I'm saying they aren't as frequent or as abusive as others.

Voluug1328 votes

Where Malz was given a passive that wasnt necessary, at the cost of his reliable damage and burst, which got nerfed and THEN nerfed again and then they nerfed his passive. Malz is currently a mediocre pick that is only good because he ''forces'' people to rushing QSS despite being piss ass weak to anything with more range to him and only being good for bulling no range melee in lane and play the deny kill lane.

Swain that was nerfed too? That his ult was given around 5 times the cooldown it had?

Vlad that became so bad he had to be buffed several times, to the point people were playing him as a tank instead of a mage, and yet people still complained about a 45% winrate champion?

Brand and Viktor that were forced to abuse Rylai because their kits suck ass and are massively unreliable without it?

The MYMU that shit on the same amount of mages that it ''buffed'' while nerfing burst mages and giving mages that were balanced around not building much CDR too much CDR so they had to be nerfed? When the MYMU basically took away items from mages instead of giving them items?

The MYMU was a disaster, and it was only when Riot whipped out some emergency buffs for failures like Vlad.

Sona x Rubick9 votes

you just described my feelings, nothing was wrong in what you said and yet you're downvoted.

mages are a problem right now, and it's riot's fault.

HaloDragonX16 votes

Killing tanks and bruisers like made men: item 3036

doubleguac4 votes

Every class is overpowered right now. Riot has been going bonkers with balance recently. Mages are clearing waves at level 1 (literally, taliyah could one hit the mage minions with a level 1 Q last patch). Tanks are 100-0% bursting squishies in the mid game. ADCs are killing tanks in 2 seconds in the late game. Assassins are building like tanks and still murdering everyone. Everyone is doing what they are supposed to do much better and faster. Except you when you're behind against them.

This season just powercreeped the hell out of everyone. The item changes (associated with the marksmen, jugg, and mage updates) were, on the whole, massive net buffs. Lots of recently released and reworked champions were essentially buffed across the board. Keystones are pure power creep. You have rift herald and tower first blood making top lane snowballier than ever.

People bitch about EVERYTHING on these boards. Because everything feels ridiculously strong right now. Except for you, when you're behind against a 1-0 Vlad who rushed a Spirit Visage and can manalessly full clear waves with tides of blood every 7 seconds. Or behind against a zed who procs thunderlords pretty much for free every time his shadow is up. Or behind against a jungle kogmaw who spiked off two cheap items and can now kill your assassins faster than they kill him.

Everyone is strong AF. A LOT of my ranked games feel ridiculously one-sided because of it. So it's easy to get fixated on a couple champions and think they are out of control broken. When really, power creep has just changed the game a lot across the board this season.

Vistha Kai26 votes

Call me a biased mage main all you want, but this thread is just as biased.

item 3116 was an option for Syndra since 2012 when she was released. Don't act like it's a new thing. Disagree or not, item 3155 is broken. It gives way too much for too little. Vladimir nobody cares about what he is doing in competitive except for usage in strawman arguments. He's unseen and unheard of outside LCS. He's about as "broken" as RekSai for that matter.

I do agree that slapping 10% CDR on half the AP items was stupid though.

LankPants23 votes

People are biased towards whats fun. Playing against Zed makes you want to throw yourself into oncoming traffic, of course people hate him, why wouldn't they. Conversely the majority of mages feel fair to play against, they don't pull the same amount of bullshit that Zed does and they actually feel like they have appropriate counterplay.

So yes people are biased towards mages. People want to have fun in the game and mages are much better than the alternative.

HateDaddy9 votes

{quoted}

People are biased towards whats fun. Playing against Zed makes you want to throw yourself into oncoming traffic, of course people hate him, why wouldn't they. Conversely the majority of mages feel fair to play against, they don't pull the same amount of bullshit that Zed does and they actually feel like they have appropriate counterplay.

So yes people are biased towards mages. People want to have fun in the game and mages are much better than the alternative.

I dunno about that

Playing against Swain, Vlad, Lissandra, Annie, Veigar, Brand and Lux is pretty rage inducing.

Abyssphere6 votes

You can tell from analysing ban rates that that's not something felt across the board, though. I find all of those champions at least somewhat annoying (some very), but I know it's not an opinion the playerbase holds. Even when people like Lux are overwhelmingly strong and people like Zed are borderline useless, people would prefer to play against the former. It's just how it is.

The boards are biased but that's largely a reflection of the game as a whole. Players hate assassins, they don't hate mages. That is largely down to inaccurate perception (people make too big a deal out of mage weaknesses such as immobility and even stuff as simple as "This mage doesn't kill me, so I'm fine with it") of champion power/fairness, but it is what it is. The playerbase, as a whole, is entirely comfortable with mages as a class having a power level that is very arguably inappropriate for a game that strives to be balanced.

Nitpick: not sure I've ever seen anyone defend Vlad from nerfs outside of bringing up his terrible stats among everyone except the pros, and I feel like if you're going down the "We need to balance for the pros" route then we have no reason not to accept hypothetical scenarios in which champions like Brand have 55% winrates but are balanced for pros.


As an almost exclusive mage player, I think there's plenty of room to nerf mages right now. My main mid laner is Syndra but I'm uncomfortable with the things she can do right now. So that's whatever. Itemisation-wise, Rylai's and Abyssal are absurdly dominant right now, but I think that's only half down to those items being too strong. I think across the board mages are not being encouraged to build squishy and I don't think that's entirely down to lack of punishment for buying defensive items. I think there's a lack of tangible reward for going squishy over bulk and that's in part down to squishier options being unappealing. Too much AP is shoved outside of the item system now (+15% on blue, +8-36% on dragon) so you just don't need to really push for high AP values anymore. In a meta where people are typically quite a bit tankier than they were last season, items like Luden's have meaningless passives, etc.

I'd take a look at the health on Rylai's for a straight nerf, or how the slow works for game health concerns. I'd make Abyssal quite a bit more expensive because it's a really, really boring rush in the mid lane which provides way too much defense (building squishy would be a lot more appealing if building bulky early didn't negate it as well as it does) and then I'd take a look at stuff like Luden's passive to see if value can be added. To be honest though, I half wonder if the weirdness in mage builds right now is actually inside Riot's control or not. Half of me thinks it's in response to other classes largely being a fair bit tankier than they used to be and if that's the case I think it's gonna be hard to convince mages not to go with the trend of building carries to survive. If you can't one shot the AD mid because of Maw and you can't one shot the ADC because of Merc Scim/Maw/Phantom Dancer, you will need comparable survivability not to lose the 1v1 automatically.

Just some thoughts.

RavenMagus18 votes
  • Magic damage is incredibly easy to itemize against, especially if you want both defenses and damage. Hexdrinker is broken as heck if you compare it to Seeker's Armguard - it's just worlds better than anti-armor options. (There is, incidentally, no option at all if you're AD and want to build against an AD assassin.) Abyssal Scepter is honestly a point against mages too - a lot of midlane matchups becomes "whoever builds Abyssal first wins", which is kind of lame. There's nothing like that for ADs (which is fortunate - botlane would suck even worse).
  • Mages rely heavily on skillshots. Granted, they usually have CC and incredible burst damage, but it's also dodgeable if you know it's coming. Compare this to physical damage - if an ADC is way ahead of you, you simply can't fight them ever, because you can't dodge them right clicking you. (Unless you're Jax.)
  • Magic resist tank items are good, and there aren't a whole lot of magic pen items available. It's very rare to see a full mage comp at all, much less one that even does well; in contrast, full AD comps are much more common, and it's more viable too because stacking armor pen is a lot easier.

That said, you're not entirely wrong. A lot of AP items are just insanely good - especially things that give durability too, like Abyssal and RoA and Rylai's, and things with insane utility, like Zhonyas and Protobelt and Rylai's. But it's not all roses and greenery on the other side, either.

HateDaddy13 votes

{quoted}

  • Magic damage is incredibly easy to itemize against, especially if you want both defenses and damage. Hexdrinker is broken as heck if you compare it to Seeker's Armguard - it's just worlds better than anti-armor options. (There is, incidentally, no option at all if you're AD and want to build against an AD assassin.) Abyssal Scepter is honestly a point against mages too - a lot of midlane matchups becomes "whoever builds Abyssal first wins", which is kind of lame. There's nothing like that for ADs (which is fortunate - botlane would suck even worse).

So here's the thing..mages aren't supposed to be damage focused entirely. Most mages are mixed with utility and damage. Even the highest burst mages bring insane utility to the table. This is why items like Hexdrinker can exist because for every Syndra ult they save you from, they do nothing to help you when you get caught in veigars cage or Annie's stuns and proceed to get blown up by the rest of their team. No other class does both damage and utility this well, this is why mages have a balance of not being entirely dependent upon damage.

The Magic pen thing is weird. For starters, flat magic pen generally isn't great. Sure, on some champions it's awesome and for snowballing and the early game, it's very good. But in most cases, you want more AP than you want pen since AP benefits shields, healing and other utility scaling spells that pen doesn't help in any way. That's why void staff gives more total pen than last whisper (at least old LW). And abyssal has become like old chalice, it makes most AP vs AP matches really stale.

  • Mages rely heavily on skillshots. Granted, they usually have CC and incredible burst damage, but it's also dodgeable if you know it's coming. Compare this to physical damage - if an ADC is way ahead of you, you simply can't fight them ever, because you can't dodge them right clicking you. (Unless you're Jax.)

Let's be clear though, those skill shots allow those spells to have significantly more power and versatility. And not to mention, much larger range than that of an ADC. That's the trade off and again, this also goes back to a balancing act of having both utility and damage.

  • Magic resist tank items are good, and there aren't a whole lot of magic pen items available. It's very rare to see a full mage comp at all, much less one that even does well; in contrast, full AD comps are much more common, and it's more viable too because stacking armor pen is a lot easier.

The only reason full AP comps don't exist is because there aren't many dps mages that could fill the void of an AD dps champion, nor would you want it to. It would make games really stale the same way full AD teams in the past have and often times, full AD teams are begging you to lose late game. They fall off hard and often lack utility. A more balanced out team will always beat a full ad team on even grounds.

That said, you're not entirely wrong. A lot of AP items are just insanely good - especially things that give durability too, like Abyssal and RoA and Rylai's, and things with insane utility, like Zhonyas and Protobelt and Rylai's. But it's not all roses and greenery on the other side, either.

No it's not, there are some AP items that aren't good. You know what I haven't seen in forever? Death cap. Like what the actual fuck. I honestly think it needs to be buffed in some way, even if it means a slightly nerf in stats. You rarely see This item and I suspect it's price has a lot to do with that.

GULAG 4 U3 votes

Magic resist is not that easy to itemize. You've got 4 decent MR tanky items atm:

item 3065 item 3026 item 3512 item 3102

Cosnirak16 votes

It's not the boards as a whole that are biased, it's individuals. Don't bring your overgeneralizing, anecdotal, personal bias laced opinion in here and pretend it's fact. It's worse than the very thing you claim others are doing...

Of course Rylai's is broken, that's been obvious to anyone paying attention for quite a while now. But it's also propping up numerous champions who without it would need individual attention so it's less work for Riot to nerf the few outlier champs at the top for now. Abyssal is complicated but essentially the aura needs to go. Invisible, worthwhile, massively variable power is just not healthy for game play.

There are a number of legit reasons people hate on certain classes more or less than others. But that's not actually a bias towards a certain class, it's a bias towards their ways of having fun. As long as it's not spilling into unfounded claims about balance (which of course at times it does) that's totally ok.

jaymc113013 votes

Regardless of the correctness of this post I want you to hush before you get muh freelo nerfed.

Long live the bullshit freelo that is item 3116 !

HateDaddy12 votes

{quoted}

Regardless of the correctness of this post I want you to hush before you get muh freelo nerfed.

Long live the bullshit freelo that is item 3116 !

Don't talk to me about freelo

Nasus + item 3116 = free Anivia ult for no reason

lighning2312 votes

List of things the boards hate:

ADC MAGES ASSASSINS TANKS BRUISERS SUPPORTS

This board will hate anything and everything

RamRanchDressing7 votes

{quoted}

List of things the boards hate:

ADC MAGES ASSASSINS TANKS BRUISERS SUPPORTS

This board will hate anything and everything

Yasuo Yasuo Yasuo Yasuo Yasuo Yasuo Yasuo

and did I mention Yasuo ?

DJMason8811 votes

Even as a mage main (Syndra Orianna Viktor i completely agree with you. Rylais gives WAY too many stats for only being 2800 gold, and Abyssal scepter is also very good right now.

chipndip111 votes

Aw man, HateDaddy thought that thinking and logical conclusions and expectations would be reasonably respected and responded to. NOPE! CAN'T HAVE THAT!

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Vistha Kai4 votes

Those conclusions are hardly logical and heavily biased against APs.

CasterGilgamesh8 votes

but mages really dont need many nerfs mages paid for their power when they became imobile they should be aloud to hit hard and have relevance AD items are much better then AP items because of so much variety.For defense AD champions have item 3046 item 3812 item 3156 item 3053 item 3139 as items mages have item 3157 Ad champions tend to always be better at push since their autos actually do something.... also mages dont have any way to life steal their health back and also have to manage their mana...

HateDaddy16 votes

{quoted}

but mages really dont need many nerfs mages paid for their power when they became imobile they should be aloud to hit hard and have relevance AD items are much better then AP items because of so much variety.For defense AD champions have item 3046 item 3812 item 3156 item 3053 item 3139 as items mages have item 3157 Ad champions tend to always be better at push since their autos actually do something.... also mages dont have any way to life steal their health back and also have to manage their mana...

Are you kidding me? item 3001 item 3174 item 3060 item 3152 item 3151 item 3027 item 3116 item 3040 item 3157

This is what I talk about, such ridiculous bias..

And mages might be immobile but let's remember they pay for it by having much longer range on spells (in general), powerful aoe spells and crowd control + utility. A Mage can often die and it won't matter as long as they got off their rotation at the right time, an ADC can't or they basically lose the fight.

NineTailedMystic21 votes

To be fair, Athene's is a support item now, Banner is very niche mid, Protobelt is only viable on certain champions, Liandries is awful unless you have Rylai's/Liandrie's synergy, and Seraphs isn't particularly good on quite a few mages. Abyssal is very strong, RoA is OP, Rylai's is OP, and Zhonya's is garbage outside of the active (pls give it 5 armor back)

ForgiveColour8 votes

28 upvotes right now. I wonder if the circlejerk is taking a break

Pika Fox7 votes

Eh. Rylais and all are fine.

And theres no real mage bias. Support and sona bias, however.... ohhhhh boy. Oh boy.

Requiemsfire6 votes

I generally think there's an issue when a utility item is used to cover or eliminate a champion's weakness as opposed to creating a gameplay niche. For example, the choice between item 3285 and item 3100 creates a niche for your champion to work around, doesn't necessarily bring just pure damage but decent stats while creating a different aspect of gameplay for a champion. Both of those item's effectiveness are based on the champion and the situation at hand.

item 3116 can be built on almost AP mage champion save for a select few who are burst oriented whilst providing a level of utility that is universally effective in all situations with a moderate amount of damage and HP to supplement it. This item is the current staple of balance to which various champions are balanced around, AurelionSol ,Azir , Cassiopeia Mordekaiser and it is used to cover one of their most major flaws. However Champions who don't even require this item to stick to their target or already have a slow in their kit can still build this Viktor Brand Malzahar because it provides more utility for not just themselves but the team overall giving them a strength they never had while making them slightly tankier and providing no serious drawbacks.

Let's not even forget that item 3285 applies Rylai's making it even better overall.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

I generally think there's an issue when a utility item is used to cover or eliminate a champion's weakness as opposed to creating a gameplay niche. For example, the choice between item 3285 and item 3100 creates a niche for your champion to work around, doesn't necessarily bring just pure damage but decent stats while creating a different aspect of gameplay for a champion. Both of those item's effectiveness are based on the champion and the situation at hand.

item 3116 can be built on almost AP mage champion save for a select few who are burst oriented whilst providing a level of utility that is universally effective in all situations with a moderate amount of damage and HP to supplement it. This item is the current staple of balance to which various champions are balanced around, AurelionSol ,Azir , Cassiopeia Mordekaiser and it is used to cover one of their most major flaws. However Champions who don't even require this item to stick to their target or already have a slow in their kit can still build this Viktor Brand Malzahar because it provides more utility for not just themselves but the team overall giving them a strength they never had while making them slightly tankier and providing no serious drawbacks.

I agree 100%

dEAdbUs6 votes

Good Zed still kills mage with armor runes and zhonia. Why mages can't complain?

I wrote about Rylai many times - mymu made this item essential for most mages. Want to blame someone? Don't blame community, blame Riot!

Veltox13 votes

GOD FORBID AN ASSASSIN ACTUALLY KILLING SOMEONE.

Dominick Destine9 votes

{quoted}

GOD FORBID AN ASSASSIN ACTUALLY KILLING SOMEONE.

What is counter play for 500 Alex

Wukong X Ahri6 votes

Tbh i just can't take you serious due to the fact that Frozen Mallet is pretty much being abused right now as well but i don't see you talking about it at all. Or maybe its the fact you main Nasus who has a slow thats basically a stun. (Note i'm not even saying Nasus is OP cause he isn't i just simply find it ironic.)

Or maybe i just don't want a core item on my main nerfed hard.

How ever i'm not so blind to not know there is definitely quite of few mages that do abuse item 3116.

MorgManBasher5 votes

And yet full AD team are a million times more reliable than a 4 man AP team with an ADC. Stack MR and murder their ADC, done deal. Meanwhile bruiser graves jungle fotm again and face tanking everything while never dying while yasuo, gnar and other assholes are top.

Teams are much less punished for full AD teams than heavy AP teams.

A Doorknob1 votes

I do agree with your post, mage dmg is too high. Too many mages can pop their combo and instakill you. Brand, Orianna, Annie, are just a few but right now, tbh, damage is just too high across the board for all characters. I do believe dmg from items should be reduced from all areas. Burst dmg from mages should stay relatively higher than dmg from AD characters but no characters should be able to instakill, not even in to late game, not even AP assassins like Diana or Kassadin. In the end, I believe items are the main problem in this game and not the champions as you've said. They seem well capable of introducing new champions and reworking new champions so they feel "fresh" and "new," I don't see why they can't do this with items. Maybe they could even borrow ideas from Dota and Smite.

Rozair2 votes

There are no bruiser ap items so diana is forced to be an assassin. Its bullshit on riots part really. They fear ap bruisers.

A Doorknob1 votes

{quoted}

There are no bruiser ap items so diana is forced to be an assassin. Its bullshit on riots part really. They fear ap bruisers.

That would depend on the champion really, Amumu and Singed can be ''AP bruisers'' but I get what you mean. You can't really build Diana like you can a Yasuo especially with the removal of Spell Vamp. And Riot does well to fear AP bruisers as well. It would probably be dumber than Tanksuo and I really would not enjoy seeing a Tankarina.

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