40:60, 50:60 Counters

The Ecdysiast··1 votes·178 views

Sometimes, a counter match up is so detrimental to the player on the losing end that they have absolutely no option to contribute to the team.

What I want to know is why the Balance team thinks does nothing to fix this.

Sure, most of the time when a character is "feast or famine" the idea is that they must get ahead or they will be completely useless. But I'd posit that it's just as bad when the match up forces the same thing.

Darius Darius is a great example of this. Against those he counters, his win rate is around/over 60%. Against his counters, it's around 43%. This kind of polarization is, quite obviously, unbalanced. Against players of equal skill, that means your odds of winning the lane-- and consequently the game-- are very heavily reliant on chance. Either you got to pick later, knowing the enemy top laner isn't a counter, or you pick first, allowing them to do so.

Similar to this issue, there are those champions who are drastically better against those they counter than their counters are against them. What I mean is a champion whose "counters" have only a 50% winrate against them, while those the champion counters are close to 60-65%.

Darius Darius again is often an example of this. Not currently, of course, as I've already told you he's the other example. But there have been times when he was. Sion Sion is the current example, with his "counters" only having 49-50% winrate against him... while is winrate against those he counters is 61-68%. SIXTY-FIVE percent is an insane winrate, even as a counter. (Ignoring the 68% because that's Ryze and I'll make a thread about him later).


I don't think it's fair to either the player or the enemy of such champions to have the outcome hinge so heavily on chance. It's feast or famine that, due to the nature of the champions involved, can't really be overcome with greater mechanical skill. Something should be done, but I don't have any suggestions.

2 Comments

redniwediS1 votes

What I want to know is why the Balance team thinks that's okay.

What I want to know is why you think the balance team thinks it's okay. Did they make a statement about this, or are you taking their lack of fixing the problems that are most notable in your play experience as evidence that they think this is okay?

Isn't it possible that they don't view it as a significantly large problem in most cases, but they do fix the horrible outliers? Isn't it possible they feel these champions are decently weak overall, so they can be left until they figure out what to do with them? What makes you think the most reasonable assumption is that they think this sort of win rate imbalance is something that should be allowed?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

What I want to know is why you think the balance team thinks it's okay. Did they make a statement about this, or are you taking their lack of fixing the problems that are most notable in your play experience as evidence that they think this is okay?

Isn't it possible that they don't view it as a significantly large problem in most cases, but they do fix the horrible outliers? Isn't it possible they feel these champions are decently weak overall, so they can be left until they figure out what to do with them? What makes you think the most reasonable assumption is that they think this sort of win rate imbalance is something that should be allowed?

Well, the issue is that these are the horrible outliers. And yes, considering their one and only job is to balance this game, a lack of action on a problem does mean they're content with it. I didn't say that they're happy about it or that they've stated this is intended. Merely that they are complacent with the problem to the point that they have made no effort to remedy it.

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