A quick question about skill caps and reworks.

Niyumi·Feb 25, 2017·1 votes·395 views

So, I heard a Rioter saying we're reworking Sol because he's "not fun" and has too high a skill curve. However, I'm sure I could find hundreds if not thousands of people who enjoy playing Sol and think he's incredibly fun.

My big issue though... what's wrong with having a high skill requirement for a champion? Not every champion needs to be braindead and click on people to automatically win. Why do we have to rework a champion simply because some people can't play them well? Sol has a low pickrate, but so does the recently-reworked Yorick and lots of other champs.

Everyone likes different things -- what's wrong with that? If you ask me, it's better to make a champion that's super fun for certain people, but not necessarily generic and playable by everyone. You get more unique feeling and satisfying champions that way.

7 Comments

GULAG 4 UFeb 25, 20171 votes

When did riot say Asol was getting a rework?

NiyumiFeb 25, 20171 votes

They've said a few times (I can find posts if you want) where they want to do a Shyvana-scale rework to Sol. Make him more "accessible" (AKA, make him braindead so whales will play him).

GULAG 4 UFeb 25, 20171 votes

Link please.

NiyumiFeb 25, 20171 votes

Can't find the original post, but here's Meddler talking about it.

Mysticman89Feb 25, 20171 votes

I believe their goal is not necessarily to lower skill ceilings (i.e. don't make them harder to master), but to change the skill floor (i.e. make them easier to pick up). Those who put in the time to master sol (or azir or any other high skill cap champion) are absolutely going to see dividends for their time investment compared to champs with lower skill ceilings, and the location of the skill floor doesn't impact that.

There does get to be some issues with balancing when they're significantly different however. If a champ is borderline unplayable without 100+ games on them, then the 'reward' for those who do put in that time investment is they now get to play a champ who is fair and balanced, but not necessarily that rewarding when one could achieve comparable winrates first timing a champ with a much lower skill floor. If on the other hand the champ is balanced at closer to 10 games played, then the 100+ game players who have really mastered the champion will be oppressively strong, which really muddles up pro play and also just makes things somewhat unfun for those playing against the champion.

If they can smooth out the skill curve somewhat, then they can get to a somewhat healthier situation where things are balanced for typical players, but further games still allow for improvement without actually getting oppressively strong.

I do not have strong feelings about how any of this applies to A.Sol specifically, but trying to make unique champions that are also balanceable across skill levels is their goal, not to remove/rework high skill cap champs.

NiyumiFeb 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I believe their goal is not necessarily to lower skill ceilings (i.e. don't make them harder to master), but to change the skill floor (i.e. make them easier to pick up).

Except the two affect one another. Raising the skill cap raises the skill floor, and lowering the skill floor lowers the skillcap.

... trying to make unique champions that are also balanceable across skill levels is their goal, not to remove/rework high skill cap champs.

That never was, and never will be, their goal. When a champion is too hard for the whales to play (who have a collective IQ of 5), they don't make money off of it. So, in order to fix that, they make the champion braindead, so that any moron can play them and excel (see Illaoi).

Mysticman89Feb 25, 20171 votes

I'm confused as to how you can think skill floor raising also necessarily raises the skill cap and vice versa, as that is generally considered untrue as far as my knowledge of game design goes.

Well, that's explicitly contrary to what they've said (I don't recall if it was in a random post or in an ask riot). I mean you're free to think it, but it's hard to really discuss something if you've already made up your mind about why they do something, in spite of evidence to the contrary. Plenty of high skill cap champs like lee that remain untouched for the most part over the years, champs like azir/kalista were nerfed to the point of being basically unusable by the masses while theoretically being still balanced at the highest levels (and both have since received skins), and rioters on both the skins team and those involved in gameplay have stated that balance decisions and skin releases are not considerations for each other.