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Why is Gnar allowed to have such GARGANTUAN HP regen growth

Zero Skill Tank··41 votes·2,371 views

Forcing a trade on Gnar is absurdly difficult for a melee in the first place, and even if you do his base damages are BS enough that you are far from guaranteed to win such a trade.

Not only that, but after a few levels trading him becomes completely pointless because he will regen tons of health (due to Rage gene AND his massive HP5) while denying your lifesteal with his poke.

It's crazy. At 1.75 growth, Gnar nearly DOUBLES growth of the next champion, which is Braum at precisely 1.0. By level 18, his HP regen is 25% greater than the next champion, which is a juggernaut, Darius.

Like WTF Rito. Just allow this guy to lose lane once in a blue moon.

Edit. And if you think that HP regen doesn't matter, it does. All health regen items scale directly with base HP5, most of them quite nicely like 100%. A Gnar with SV will regen more than a bar of HP in-between waves more than a Darius with SV would. Really, WTF, not every champion is Darius, and Gnar has ANOTHER source of regen.

31 Comments

MangoInfinity14 votes

let me just say.....

 ![Jayce](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/champion/Jayce.png)
DestinyDude4 votes

First I want to say that these passive-aggressive titles are not supporting your case at all, the only thing they do is they make you seem like a salty person who is looking for validation rather than discussion.

To answer your question: here are the patchnotes in which it got changed: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-76-notes#patch-champions

Also your argumentation leaves out the fact that mini Gnar actually also has the Lowest HP/Level and lowest Armor/Level of all champions who gain Armor per level - meaning he regens more because he has less effective HP.

MrHaZeYo3 votes

I'd argue Mundo and Garan can heal more between waves.

Infernape15 votes

To be fair though, that's their passives working not their base stats. In Gnar's case it's one of his base stats.

MrHaZeYo5 votes

To be fair though most other top laners have a form of self healing outside of the random Gnar transformation.

Garen, Fiora, Renek, Tryn, Darius, Voli, Olaf, Cam, Irelia, AA, Mundo, Trundle.

Zero Skill Tank6 votes

Garen, Fiora, Renek, Tryn, Darius, Voli, Olaf, Cam, Irelia, AA, Mundo, Trundle.

Keyword is melee.

MrHaZeYo3 votes

Gnar is technically a melee champion though lol. Also does his HP/5 change between transformations?

Durzaka1 votes

And their regen strength is proportionally larger, since it takes up the power budget of a passive. And Gnar's is weaker because its base stats.

Durzaka3 votes

Darius also has a pretty significant chunk of HP regen/healing tied to his Q.

Whereas Gnar has a minor bit of HP regen tied to his transformation.

THATS why he has higher regen than Darius.

Find someone without built in sustain to compare at least.

TeCoolMage3 votes

This pretty much. Gnar is meant to be a top lane bruiser but bruiser really need their lane sustain.

He has none in his kit so it's just in his stats.

Don't actually buy spirit visage on him though it's not as good as kit healing

Spoofghoul1 votes

how about Sion

Durzaka1 votes

Has a shield to act as a form of sustain.

Same with Riven.

Spoofghoul3 votes

Ah yes that tiny shield costing half your mana bar in lane getting 1 hit from range

fair enough

Durzaka2 votes

I didnt realize 65 mana was half of 325 base mana.

And it is also a trading tool that deals max% health damage. So the shield isnt going to be allowed to be overwhelming.

On top of that he also stacks HP with his W. There is A LOT stacked into Sions W to give him sustain, trading potential, and tankiness.

Earthlord Jazz2 votes

And Gnar has range. if he uses it correctly he should take less damage from a champion, not to mention minion aggro.

TotalJerk1 votes

Sion's base HP regen is actually the highest in the game while at level 18 it's tied for 7th place. Throw a few rejuvenation beads on him and he can heal off the damage from short trades that his shield doesn't absorb.

InfinitexMortal3 votes

Right....... cuz this guy doesnt existKled Learn to play a Gnar counter and stop crying. If Gnar was nerfed anymore he's go back to being useless like he was before.

RainbowIcee2 votes

Gnar is kinda difficult to balance without changing him. If you nerf little gnar to be vulnerable then he's pretty much shit as little gnar has to build up mega gnar, and if at one point gnar has to gamble to go all out just to turn mega gnar in the middle of a fight making him slightly more vulnerable would make those outcomes impossible in an even situation only becoming far worse as he's more behind, so making him weak it's not the fair option in my opinion. Maybe make mega gnar slightly weaker but then that still beats the purpose as mega gnar is the goal.

Chibi Zephyr2 votes

I would like to compare apples to apples when tackling this question. First, it should not be presumed that melee champions are inherently weaker than ranged champions as they are very often given mobility, or in absence of mobility, higher relevant stats over all.

Three champions I think are similar to Gnar are: Teemo: Poke and Kite Akali: Poke then all-in Quinn: Poke then all-in +High kill pressure from level 1

At level 6, Gnar regenerates 2.3HP per second. Teemo regenerates 1.7, Akali regenerates 2.2, and Quinn regenerates 1.5.

Waves spawn 30 seconds apart. So from the time the second and third wave crashes, Gnar will regenerate 3hp more than Akali, 6hp over Teemo, and 8hp over Quinn. It seems like the regeneration is intented to make it more difficult for opponents to keep someone within range to kill them. I believe that gnar's regeneration is higher as he needs to get his opponents to lower levels of HP before being able to kill them than Akali, Teemo, and Quinn.

Other champions like Darius are what I would consider to be comparable, in that their goals are completely different than Gnar's and we can't really weigh them on the same scale.

FOR JUSTICE1 votes

excuse me cause I'm kinda new, but what other health regen can I spam :DDD and how big a lead could 5.0 per second gain you?

also Gnar GANTUAN + GRASP

Terchio1 votes

Oh. He used to be the game's smallest until transformed, and then was the largest in Mega Gnar form. I didn't realize they changed that.

However, even at the game's highest level 18 value (and to be fair, Darius is number 2), he's not really that high until middle levels, and is super low at low levels. He doesn't even surpass Darius until level 8. If he's passing your regeneration by a whole bar, then he's more highly investing in it, or you're regenerating 2--3 bars already, and that's based on level 18 values. Until then, the two should actually be neck-and-neck, assuming equal investment. Before the change, Heimerdinger was the OP regeneration one.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

He doesn't even surpass Darius until level 8

Not every champion is Darius. He will surpass others even earlier.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

I find it harder to trade on Garen then Gnar as he just has to avoid combat for a few seconds and he starts healing any damage you've done to him. The key is to force him to transform when he doesn't want to transform (like landing a ranged attack on him with his rage bar mostly full). If he is in his mega form, he can't move fast and the damage done to him in that form will tend to hit harder then in his mini form. Then it takes a while for him to get that form back at early stages, so if you are a Juggernaut or something, its a good chance to go ham on him. Worse case scenario you only get him to use up his E. best case scenario, its on cooldown and he's going to take some damage.

Also keep in mind Riot is planning to do a final patch in December to try and help top lane, focusing on fighters. One of the things a Rioter mentioned is "being able to fight someone like Vayne Top lane without having to concede the lane to keep her from getting fed". If that is anything to go on, it likely means they are going to try and give Fighters tools to deal with ranged champs better then they can now. Just have to wait till around the 14th to find out more details.

Final Spark Lux1 votes

So close...you could have said GNARGANTUAN... :\

gileskd1 votes

item 1006 item 1006 item 1006 starting build op [slayer-jinx-catface]

TotalJerk1 votes

He has high regen growth because he has the fourth lowest base regen in the game. The point of this is to give him weak sustain in the early game without gimping his lategame.

Zero Skill Tank4 votes

Right, they don't want to 'gimp his lategame', so he gains the highest HP regen by level 8 or 9, and than it keeps growing like crazy.

Muh lvl 8 lategame.

FireDrizzle1 votes

Why can this pos flash twice on a basic ability? Why many things about this champion.

The Real A Twice1 votes

playJax into Gnar . [ q, auto, w, e, walk away.] buy a item 3057 , rinse and repeat that combo. flash to hit the stun and kill Gnar . congratulations you have just won lane.

Helicopters beat rats.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

Great advice, thanks.

My question here is, though, what if Gnar isn't a complete garbage can and can use his keyboard as well?

Thin Air1 votes

Yeah, I'm a plat Jax one trick, and it isn't that easy at all against a Gnar that isn't half braindead. That matchup is actually really hard for Jax.

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