And we already have videos saying how Riot should compensate for early game nerfs with late game buffs, and dozen of "don't" threads.
Srsly guise, this is well deserved nerf, quite an overdue one, and it didn't even hit the PBE yet. Other champions were nerfed for far less.
Have a little dignity.
LankPants120 votes"Assassins are all about high risk high risk high reward."
This is why I can't take Redmercy seriously. Zed isn't a high risk champion, in fact he's one of the lowest risk champions in the early game at least.
Gregor Gysi20 votesThis is why he proposed that Zed should be punished more for missing abilities. What exactly is your problem?
(but yes, in the end it obviously seems like he wants Zed to be a tad too strong. But I really like the general idea to make Zed less forgiving)
HAIL WHYDRA7 votesBut he his punished for missing his abilities. A standard WEQ combo is anywhere from 160 to 180 energy. For a 200 energy pool. And that god forsaken 20 energy return is nothing. And blah blah he regens fast, but he needs 3/4ths of his energy to do his combo again while waiting for this shadow to come back up.
Gregor Gysi30 votes[{quoted}](name=The Giratina,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AROoJWcR,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-03-20T11:43:39.106+0000)
But he his unpuished for missing his abilties. A standard WEQ combo is anywhere from 160 to 180 energy. For a 200 energy pool. And that god forsaken 20 energy return is nothing. And blah blah he regens fast, but he needs 3/4ths of his energy to do his combo again while waiting for this shadow to come back up.
Do you want to say that Zed isn't getting punished for missing his abilities? Or are you saying that Zeds energy costs are too high? I don't even know..
My point is simply that I agree with Redmercy saying that Zed needs to be less safe. Neither do I want nor do I have the knowledge about Zed to go into an in-depth discussion about Zed nerfs.
HAIL WHYDRA1 votesYou made me see the typo, thanks. What Im trying to say is that zed is punished by not being able to do anything, except auto attacking of course, when he blows his full harass combo. It especially hurts if you miss. If you want my opinion as a Zed main for his nerfs, tone down the damage of him landing the combo. The thunderlords synergy is what is making him over tuned to shit, along with the penetration mastery.
Zero Skill Tank35 votesYou made me see the typo, thanks. What Im trying to say is that zed is punished by not being able to do anything, except auto attacking of course, when he blows his full harass combo. It especially hurts if you miss.
Guess what, every champion in the game has abilities on CD if they miss all their stuff. Only other champions have higher CD's and some actual long term cost attached to them, or they need to get in your face to use said abilities. Zed is 'punished' when he misses everything, but his punishment is still the tiniest in all game.
Tobias Brackner1 votesHe also loses his escape move. And his harass is pretty short range and fairly easy to dodge. I find his harass to be worse then other champs and it sets him up for counter harass since it also shuts him out of long-range farm.
Azeranth9 votesZed shouldn't have good escape to begin with. He is an assassin his escape should be you dying. That's how assassins work. Burning his escape is part of the combo. And again, zed is an assassin he should be easily harassed away by anything with half decent poke unless he can get in killing range at pop the target before they can turn it back on him
OneSmoothDude8 votesZed shouldn't have good escape to begin with.
I mean if you delete his center of his entire theme and playstyle, that being his shadow, yeah, he "shouldn't have good escape." But then that's not Zed, so I'm not sure that's entirely realistic. We can't just make him into a second Talon. That would be silly.
He is an assassin his escape should be you dying.
That's not really an escape. Being under turret or among teammates wouldn't allow him to escape if he kills his target, right? Those two principles are just...entirely different things.
Burning his escape is part of the combo.
Yeah, and herein is the counterplay. He has a long cooldown tied to his shadow, which means if he uses it offensively, it's not up to use defensively, and vice versa. This makes his choices interesting for both the Zed player, and the person he is playing against. Now we're gettin' somewhere.
And again, zed is an assassin he should be easily harassed away by anything with half decent poke unless he can get in killing range at pop the target before they can turn it back on him
You keep using that word, "should."
Look, things aren't so black and white in reality. Characters can be members of a given class without having every single component of it in their kit. They can also have characteristics of other classes, and still be a different class primarily. Look at Vlad, who is described as a "tank mage" of sorts, or compare Corki, a "caster ADC," with Caitlyn, an ADC whose abilities serve to mainly supplement her auto attacks. Etc.
Like, Juggernauts are defined by having 1) low mobility, 2) little CC, 3) melee auto attacks, 4) some inherent sturdiness, and 5) lots of damage. Doesn't stop Garen from having a movement speed buff and hard CC in his Q, or Darius from having a displacement and a slow. Or Skarner actually being pretty quick in general and having his ultimate.
Tobias Brackner3 votes^ <3
Odyssey8510 votesAlright, so time to drop my opinion. I feel that Redmercy is entitled to make his own opinion on a champion he likes so much, even if this takes the form of a video. If you feel strongly about a certain champion, who is it to stop you from expressing your own beliefs about them? This is essentially the same as Malicious Metal creating threads about Mordekaiser (hue), just in video format. If you're okay with MM making threads about his iron man, then don't complain if someone else talks about their numero uno. While I do agree with the nerf ideas made in the post "Zed has a 60% winrate at all elos," as they would weaken his laning phase, I do like some of the ideas made by RedMercy, the increase in loss of energy when missing abilities and increase in energy regen when landing them properly. That would make him more of a "high risk high reward" champion, and making players have to spend more time practicing on their Zed abilities in order to play effectively. Perhaps Rioters can take some of both in order to make him weaker, but still good as you spend time on him. That's just my opinion, take it as you will
BastionKross5 votesI would definitely not compare MM to Redmercy here.
Metal had his champion utterly destroyed by a rework that no one wanted. Even now, over half a year later, he's still trying to pick up the pieces of Morde and put them together into something resembling a viable champion.
Redmercy had a Rioter comment that his champion may be too strong and that nerfs may be incoming, despite nothing solid on the PBE yet. Red then tries to counter the possibility of potential nerfs with a whole video full of potential compensation buffs.
One of those guys is reacting in a reasonable manner, the other is more desperate than a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest.
However, everyone is allowed an opinion, and should be free to express that opinion. My personal opinion is that Red needs to grow some dignity and let Zed take the nerf bat beating that he's been overdue for a long time now.
Odyssey852 votesI mean, essentially, they both hold a champion dear to their hearts, albeit one is incredibly popular and the other is sitting around gathering dust. I definitely get what you're saying about how Red is trying to create ideas to counter the nerf, but he does state how even he agrees that aspects of Zed, such as his strong laning phase, are subject to nerfs, so I wouldn't think he's totally unreasonable. But I guess we'll see when and if this nerf comes around and see what is the general opinion is, I'm honestly curious to see what the Rioters do.
LankPants3 votesHe made a video less than a month ago just after Duskblade was released where he listed about 4 or 5 ways that Zed was overpowered then had the balls to claim he wasn't off of a single point.
This is a Zed who had almost the exact same P/B/WR as he does now, he even shows a picture of it at the start of the video.
This is actually the video that made me say 'Do you know what? This complete and utter tripe'. This is basically what made me stop taking Redmercy seriously not the last video, the last one just confirmed my belief.
Literally the only reason why he's going back on his word now is because a red said they think Zed is OP. You can even hear that he doesn't really believe what he's saying in the video from the shear amount of "but this" and "but that".
Redmercy2 votes[deleted]
Hige5 votesthe reward is already high, hence why everyone complains about him, asking for more rewards playing this champion is... sorry I can't find another word: dumb, he needs nerfs and just nerfs, no compensations anywhere.
Eevee In A Jar2 votesStop bitching about Zed being nerfed; it's well deserved. He's had a dominating season before and has been competitive since then as the safest and one of the easier assassin's because of it.
Hige2 votesthat's exactly what I'm saying, hello?
Mr Broken Wings81 votesRedmercy is a pussy. Boxbox didnt made a qq thread everytime they nerfed his champ either ( even after nerfing riven into trash tier level): He should shut up.
DevilishMetal2 votesYeah, but Boxbox's Riven is so good I don't think it mattered that much to him.
VasilisGreen3 votesWhen was the last time riven was nerfed?
Voluug134 votesWhen her early itemization (aka which she needs most as a broken ass champion that relies on cheeseing lanes before level 9) was gutted in pre-season.
Gregor Gysi12 votesBut that is not a QQ thread. It's not even a QQ video. Just because you are salty about the Riven nerfs (which I am aswell btw) that doesn't mean that you should insult someone for uploading a reasonable video about the balance state of their main.
WadeWilson133740 votesZed does not need compensation buffs lol. His laning phase is too strong and needs to be touched. His late game isnt very good if youre not very good at Zed, but a good Zed can get around those weaknesses. Hes talking about raising the skillcap of his champion, but the difficulties he faces in the mid and late game are what actually shows a good Zed player, as of right now i could play Zed for the first time in months and probably absolutely anal any immobile mage mid lane because of how strong his laning phase is.
Gregor Gysi8 votesWhat are you talking about? I simply said that this wasn't a QQ video. Redmercy was acting far more reasonable in his entire video than you are in one paragraph.
WadeWilson133728 votes...What? Im talking about Redmercy feeling like his main is special and should get compensation buffs while champions like 
are getting gutted. There is nothing unreasonable about what i said. I said that Zed's laning phase is too strong and nullifies his high skillcap as it is too forgiving and easy to pull off. Yes, Zed is not that great once teamfights start, but that is where how good a player is at Zed is tested.
Guy Fox Teemo5 votes"A good Zed" no, you have to be a GODLY Zed, or you're just going to get shat on by QSS and Zhonyas late game.
Or get locked down because of Naut or anyone with hard CC, and instantly die.
WadeWilson13378 votesIf you go in as an Assassin when a Nautilus has all his cooldowns, youre probably not a very good Zed player.
Zed HAS TO BE WEAK MID AND LATE GAME. Otherwise he is unbalanced. He is a lane dominant champion. If you are lane dominant, and you also transition well into teamfights, the champion is typically not very balanced. Zed has a strong early game and snowballs quite hard which is the trade off he faces for a subpar mid and late game. Zed is also the only AD assassin being played in LCS at the moment on a regular basis, so he is clearly quite good.
Chaos Milk Tea50 votesGod forbid he fall to a mere 48% winrate. (nevermind that he's near 60% with the pros. If that doesn't speak for his potential)
Let's be real for a second. Orianna has a 45% winrate most of the time, (about 52ish% with pros) and she's considered one of the most rewarding, fair, and well designed champions in the game. If Zed suddenly went to a 46-48% winrate, he would still be over a 50% winrate for anyone who actually sat down and mastered the mechanics of what is supposed to be a high skill cap champion. Right now though he has a 50% winrate across the board, and that's not how a high skill cap champion should look.
A zed nerf will not take him out of the hands of those who put in 100s of games, just people who want to pick him up randomly as a mage counter.
Rıots Bad Client35 votesSo wait... His suggestion to nerf him. . . is to Buff him? And his 'counterplay' is to hope the zed player fucks up... Hmm I don't like that. I don't like that one bit.
I would really suggest this: One-decrease all his ability on the cost of energy. (right now his q-w-e pretty much costs 80% of his pool, I would say decrease it to around 35% Two- Make his energy regen be really slow... Like piss slow like Mana regen. (His regen can scale with his bonus attack damage) Three- His auto attacks increase his energy(5%), Killing a creep increases energy(10%), hitting enemies increase his energy(8%).
This will divide bad zeds from good zeds, He will need to manage his energy while harassing while farming. Missing abilities will punish zed while landing the ability rewards him making him more overall more rewarding to play against him. A zed that spams everything will need to auto attack creeps this opens a small window for you to throw him back a bit.
This will hit his laning phase pretty good for some and not touch his teamfight/split push/ picks potential.
I think it requires skill and patients to play zed already atm... But hes not really rewarding...
Divewing30 votesZed's passive no longer works on minions
HOLY CRAP HE CAN BE SHOVED IN AND PUNISHED LIKE LITERALLY EVERY OTHER ASSASSIN NOW :O
Seriously, talon needs tiamat/hydra and at least 4/5th rank rake (which chews mana) to quick-clear, LB has to ult lmfao, akalis just boned, ekko has to spam his 3 second delayed Q, Kass is almost boned (E is the saving grace) fizz has to use his escape/main dmg/mini ult. Not to mention ALL OF THOSE (barring Akali, but it's a moot point since she can't waveclear for crap anyway), use MANA, NOT ENERGY.
Why Zed gets a free pass on CSing is beyond me..
Count Zubat27 votesThank god, finally some nerfs for this motherfucker. As for RedMercy, he probably can't stand that his free elo is finally nerfed. But what else to expect, he mains him so he is gonna QQ, what else.
Foxstep11 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AROoJWcR,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-03-20T12:29:55.131+0000)
Thank god, finally some nerfs for this motherfucker. As for RedMercy, he probably can't stand that his free elo is finally nerfed. But what else to expect, he mains him so he is gonna QQ, what else.
if he's freelo you could abuse him to get out of bronze, couldn't you?
Count Zubat3 votesYeah, I could. I could abuse so many freelo champs. I could abuse Fiora, Yi, Zed, Lux... But I don't for 2 reasons:
Astôlfo1 votes450 IP for Yi is expensive I see. 3150 IP barely takes any effort to accomplish. 4800's not that hard either. 6300 takes a bit more playing, but it's not even worth it because he's not even freelo. lol Nice try at justifying your own salt.
Count Zubat5 votesI have Master Yi :p But getting other 3, well, it is nearly 16k IP, quite a lot for me. Also, as I said, I'm not interested in playing these guys, I'm saving IP for Irelia and Trundle right now. And well, you could say I'm salty, but that's kinda true for me that I'm no FotM player. And that probably means I'm gonna stay in bronze few months more, because I'm too stubborn to use some of FotM champs that clearly are a bit stronger than some others.
AMYS GRAVE3 votesI'm no FotM player.
What do you have against me?
Malicious Metal17 votesOnly because someone mains a champion doesn't mean he'll ALWAYS be biased towards them. But yeah, it's sadly often the case, especially with champions that have a large following and are flashy enough, making their mains feel like the next superstar :P
Knight Devout18 votesZed mains. Lee Sin mains. Yasuo mains.
The three kind of mains you just can't reason with.
Oerba No Naja6 votesi called that : the negative iq trinity .
Billy VoHagen3 votesTo be fair, barely anyone on these boards can be reasoned with. They rarely think on their own and thinks whatever beats them is op.
Knight Devout5 votesOnly time I remember youtuber starting a riot because of nerfs that weren't even final yet were for Lee Sins and Zed, so.
CasterGilgamesh8 votesyou forgot the 
mains
SwapShadows5 votesThis is probably the stupidest thing I have seen in a while.
I don't think Riot realizes that people complain about Zed just to complain, not because he is strong.
Nerf him until he can hardly even do damage and he will still receive complaints.
Zero Skill Tank23 votesYes diamond players jeopardize their ELO by banning worthless champion just to confuse Riot.
Zed players... [slayer-jinx-unamused]
Akali is SO HOT5 votes
No Riot don't nerf me! :(
Don't worry friend soon you'll be in the garbage can just like the rest of us :3
Sevixys11 votesEvery one of those is viable. Akali is played as a tank tho
iDarkWind3 votesHe didn't say anything wrong at all. He agree with the nerfs that are possible coming, the only sugesstion he mad was for change his energy costs and if you fail your combo be punished hard for that. It was only a buff to energy costs / recover if you land every single skillshot on his combo with his W, this means a buff to good Zed's and a nerf to Bad Zed's, wich isn't that bad idea (at least it was what I understood). Even me a Zed main, I agree with this Nerf's, it's so annoying to see some bad Zed's going well in laning phase just because once they get the new item they don't need that much skill to kill a squishy target.
Just one more thing: I don't agree with most of you by the way. I would say 70% of this community is just Zed Hater, they aren't players that actually want to have a healthy discussion how to make him balance or more like high risk - high reward champion. That's why Riot doesn't take the community too much serious most of the time. It's just take a look at the most upvoted comment on this topic, and we can see what I'm talking about.
