@Rito Why is Yasuo still not disabled?

Zero Skill Tank·Sep 1, 2016·183 votes·21,979 views

Champions were disabled until fix for far less gamebreaking bugs - see Aurelion Sol. Is Yasuo getting special treatment again, or are videos of the bug all over youtube fake?

268 Comments

RiotMeddlerSep 1, 201648 votes

We disable champions if they're so bugged or overpowered that they need to be hotfixed. In this case while the bug does give Yasuo a significant amount of extra power, and fixing it was a major priority for the next patch, it didn't push his performance beyond what we consider the acceptable limit for a 2 week period. As a result we left him enabled.

dunkeroniSep 1, 201674 votes

This is game breaking. Now we only have 5 bans instead of 6, because Yasuo has to be banned every game to stop people from facing him every game and getting bored :P

BisaknospSep 1, 201616 votes

yup i will make sure to never hear this annoying 'hasagi' or see his ugly af ponytail ever again

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 1, 20167 votes

{quoted}

This is game breaking. Now we only have 5 bans instead of 6, because Yasuo has to be banned every game to stop people from facing him every game and getting bored :P

would you ban him if he didnt have the bug?

dunkeroniSep 1, 201626 votes

I ban anyone who gets played that often, just so I can see more champions.

Right now in SIlver queues, Yasuo is played in over 49% of all games where he isn't banned. The next most played champions are a few ADCs around 22-24%, and most other popular champions are below 15%.

http://bestbans.com/tier/silver

Spicy RiceSep 1, 20162 votes

I remember a time when yasuo was considered shit, and I had to buy shiv, triforce, and ie to get 100% crit.

Now I can never play yasuo because he is banned in draft, and instalocked in blind pick

Troll for TrumpSep 3, 20161 votes

Yasuo was never "shit". At his weakest, he was "bad" for new players, but perfectly fine for good Yasuo players.

Like how LeeSin is now. Riven is sorta similar, but much more to the extremes.

Spicy RiceSep 3, 20163 votes

Apparently we don't remember late season 5 the same way.

ValiantDogFoodSep 2, 201610 votes

I ban him because all the Yasuo mains down in low elo are trash

PayaThePapayaSep 1, 20163 votes

@Meddler would you like to get dinner with me and my gf sometime in November? :D? She would love to meet you

IcyPepperSep 1, 20162 votes

Do you even know Meddler...?

PayaThePapayaSep 2, 20161 votes

I duoed with him a while ago but I don't think he remembers me :'(

IcyPepperSep 2, 20164 votes

Unless you know him in person, it's kind of creepy to ask someone that randomly on a public forum...

ANn if you know him personally, a dinner invitation should be a bit more personal anyway.

gottrjrSep 1, 201624 votes

{quoted}

We disable champions if they're so bugged or overpowered that they need to be hotfixed. In this case while the bug does give Yasuo a significant amount of extra power, and fixing it was a major priority for the next patch, it didn't push his performance beyond what we consider the acceptable limit for a 2 week period. As a result we left him enabled.

Yeah, it's been real fun for everyone that isn't playing Yasuo.... sarcasm

Nameless VoiceSep 1, 201615 votes

To be fair, that applied even before the bug.

Yasuo has never been fun to play against, even when on the rare occasions that he was very weak.

gottrjrSep 1, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vvY7VjI8,comment-id=001200040000,timestamp=2016-09-01T22:08:47.515+0000)

To be fair, that applied even before the bug.

Yasuo has never been fun to play against, even when on the rare occasions that he was very weak.

This is true, and I guess to that point, it doesn't take much to make it an even worse experience.

Nameless VoiceSep 1, 201616 votes

When he's weak, people can more easily forget how oppressive he is to play against; when he's strong, everyone sees him in almost every game and can easily remember how much they hate him.

The same is true for a few other champions. Kalista comes to mind. She's been nerfed so much that no one sees her any more and she has one of the lowest wirates in the game, but the actual major design flaws in her kit were never addressed. I'm sure that the moment she even becomes slightly strong again, everyone will remember and start hating on her.

gottrjrSep 1, 201612 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vvY7VjI8,comment-id=00120004000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-01T22:55:12.070+0000)

When he's weak, people can more easily forget how oppressive he is to play against; when he's strong, everyone sees him in almost every game and can easily remember how much they hate him.

The same is true for a few other champions. Kalista comes to mind. She's been nerfed so much that no one sees her any more and she has one of the lowest wirates in the game, but the actual major design flaws in her kit were never addressed. I'm sure that the moment she even becomes slightly strong again, everyone will remember and start hating on her.

His kit is arguably the most OP kit in the game. If his skill-cap were not so high he would have been gutted a long time ago. Right now he is in almost every game and it's getting old.

Vistha KaiSep 2, 20162 votes

His midlane was weak for the past 2 years.

Oh, and if you actually care to learn his strengths and weaknesses, he is very fun to play against.

Nameless VoiceSep 2, 20165 votes

Unfortunately, I don't consider being forced to pick a champ who can deal with him to be particularly fun.

FantasySniperSep 1, 201619 votes

F A V O R I T I S M

morris1Sep 2, 201617 votes

But we must disable Azir due to a bug that causes his staff to float 5 pixels above him.

G12Sep 2, 20163 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

FantasySniperSep 3, 20162 votes

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/218/857/1324182733369.png

JunkοSep 5, 20162 votes

Yet he was not disabled when his ultimate literally did nothing, it flat out didn't work.

Damn cherry picking.

Nameless VoiceSep 1, 201614 votes

Most people haven't considered Yasuo to be "acceptable" since his release.

There's a reason that one of the first things people say when you talk about implementing 5 bans per team is that they are looking forward to never having to play against him ever again.

I honestly cannot wrap my head around why Yasuo is allowed to exist at the same time as he breaks almost all of Riot's stated design principles.

KeevalroySep 1, 201611 votes

I honestly cannot wrap my head around why Yasuo is allowed to exist at the same time as he breaks almost all of Riot's stated design principles.

Because he's CertainlyT's, who is allowed to break every single principal when designing, and Riot continues to hail him as a genius. Then there's the added bonus that he's a flashy playmaker, so he's protected by Riot twice.

JunkοSep 2, 20162 votes

Again the CertainlyT circlejerk.

Azir Ekko Irelia Zed Vladimir Nidalee LeeSin

Damn its really a shame CertainlyT is THE ONLY ONE who makes overloaded champs that are apparently immune to nerfs because they are fun to watch in pro play. Damn. I mean look at all the times Yasuo has been played in competitive this season... oh wait.

KeevalroySep 2, 20167 votes

Did I say he was the only one who makes overloaded champions? No, I didn't, but way to jump to conclusions. I'm talking about game design where the ideal healthy kit has already been explained through Zileas' list of design anti-patterns, and CT is somehow allowed to break every single one of them consistently and get away with it. What's worse, is that he's influenced other designers to do the same, and toxic bullshit is now running rampant through the game with hardly anything being done about it, it's only getting worse.

And for that list, Azir isn't that bad compared to some - he's just oppressive and non-interactive, Vlad shouldn't be on that list when Gnar exists, and as much as I dislike Nid, I can't believe I'm actually going to defend her - if you want to put her up there, where are Elise, Kled, and Jayce, the other form swappers?

You also forgot Kindred, Thresh. Kalista, and Fiora.

SSShutTheDuckUpSep 1, 201625 votes

And what is acceptable limit then? I remember you saying that is high-skill-capped champions (you were talking about azir) have a 50% winrate that makes him OP, because those champions are played by a lot of unskilled players, who naturally lower their winrates. Now we have one really high-skill-capped character, which is also overly-played (meaning that he will be played by A LOT of unskilled players) hovering around 56% and that is under the acceptable limit? So what is acceptable limit? Maybe 90% winrate?

OxyPoroSep 1, 20169 votes

[{quoted}](name=Awesomeasf ck,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vvY7VjI8,comment-id=0012000f,timestamp=2016-09-01T23:28:38.923+0000)

And what is acceptable limit then? I remember you saying that is high-skill-capped champions (you were talking about azir) have a 50% winrate that makes him OP, because those champions are played by a lot of unskilled players, who naturally lower their winrates. Now we have one really high-skill-capped character, which is also overly-played (meaning that he will be played by A LOT of unskilled players) hovering around 56% and that is under the acceptable limit? So what is acceptable limit? Maybe 90% winrate?

Yes.

RiotMeddlerSep 2, 201623 votes

Acceptable till the next patch versus acceptable longer term are things we treat pretty differently. Statistically at least we'll generally be looking at hotfixes if a champs in the high fifities or above. That's not to say there isn't some real pain and problems sometimes with champions below that, hotfixes have risk associated with them (changes to servers while they're live, less testing time) though that mean it's only appropriate to use them pretty sparingly.

SSShutTheDuckUpSep 2, 201617 votes

Thank you for your answer and I will try not to be too salty. The part with hotfixes bring risks is known. However we are not asking for hotfixes balance-wise, but rather hotfix the bug. And if this brings risk (another bug replacing the current one) or take more time and testing - why don't you just disable the champion while the process takes time? I mean at the end of the day the bug brings a lot of extra power to an already too powerful character. That's not a nice thing to deal with.

P.S. - achievement unlocked - get answer by Meddler ^^

UrPalAlSep 2, 20163 votes

What he's saying is that his win-rate isn't high enough to justify it. I mean, there have been champions who were bug free that had win-rates FAR higher than what even Yasuo has now.

SSShutTheDuckUpSep 2, 20167 votes

Could be, but what makes this case worse is that it is an historically annoying champion and this is a bug that makes him more of a pain in the neck than usual.

UrPalAlSep 2, 20162 votes

On the bright side, it'll be worth it for those PBE changes. Did you see the S@20 changes? Tank Yasuo is gonna be gone for good baby

SSShutTheDuckUpSep 2, 20169 votes

My unpopular opinion: I think damage yasuo is just as much of a problem as tank yasuo. I also think that those nerfs are not enough, and I do not get why he get basic AS buff for compensation. I want to see his wall gutted, because it is so anti-fun to play around lategame

Very Hard EngageSep 1, 201626 votes

because hes popular

The DeckownerSep 1, 201623 votes

because 11% play rate, it's all about the money.

TesliumSep 1, 20162 votes

20%

hhaavviikkSep 1, 20167 votes

if a champion becomes 'broken OP'' by simply getting 1 extra AA in his combo then that just shows that yasuo already was to strong really and was merely ''rediscovered''

GULAG 4 USep 1, 201666 votes

double aa can mean up to 700 more damage so it's a massive bug.

EDIT: And it applies fucking onhits. More fervor stacks and damage. More lifesteal. More ruined king %health damage if you built it. double cleaver stacks. It's huge bullshit.

JunkοSep 1, 20161 votes

Actually usually its only like 400 more damage. Though still huge.

YumaS2AstralSep 2, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Actually usually its only like 400 more damage. Though still huge.

400 damage can make a fucking big difference

JunkοSep 2, 20161 votes

Apply armor and suddenly it doesn't.

TequilaZombieSep 2, 20164 votes

You mean that armor that he ignores 50% of just with his ult steroid?

JunkοSep 2, 20162 votes

You mean the one that comes into effect AFTER the ult while the AA takes place before it?

TequilaZombieSep 2, 20164 votes

Don't try to ruin my hate for Yasuo with your logic.

Kappa

vampirekid13Sep 1, 20165 votes

what bug??

Zero Skill TankSep 1, 201631 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xe0ab3zJsM

Supposedly he is getting 2 basic attacks off between knockup and ult, when he should only be able to make one until he nearly caps AS.

I'm not sure if that's the case though, as suspicious damage proc in videos deals somewhat more damage than his basic attacks do (but not enough to be a crit).

It might not sound like much, but well, Yasuo's basic attacks deal a lot of damage.