Friendly reminder that Azir's rank 3 ult lasts for 7 seconds

HateDaddy·Jun 16, 2015·2 votes·742 views

As much as I like bouncing off his wall for 7 seconds to the point that I'm concussed, 7 seconds is an absurd amount of time. His ult already has an aoe knock-back attached to it, the sheer power of that alone is godlike. When you consider this is also on a champion with insane zone control, siege, burst AND dps, it starts to feel really silly. 7 seconds is an eternity in a teamfight, there's really no reason his wall should be up for a duration like that. It honestly needs to be cut down to 4-5 seconds at all ranks.

27 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerJun 16, 20153 votes

Friendly reminder that it is the highest amount of power in his most powerful skill.

Next you'll be complaining that Xerath Ult does a bunch of damage when you land all 3 max rank shots. Of course it's going to do that idiot

edit: fixed typos

HateDaddyJun 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Friendly reminder that it is the highest amount of power in his most powerful skill.

Next you'll be complaining that Xerath Ult does the a bunch of damage when you lane all 3 rank shots. Of course it's going to do that idiot

There's such thing as unnecessary power and dare I say, overpowered. The skill is powerful enough in its damage and displacement - which I actually have no issue with because he has to be relatively close to cast it. But for a zone control ability like this, 7 seconds is an eternity and there's no reason for it to have that kind of power. Reducing it to 4-5 seconds really doesn't even hurt him much but it makes playing against him significantly less frustrating and it removes a tad bit of unnecessary power. Xerath ult is long range damage with vision granting, it doesn't displace and zone control for 7 seconds. And as I stated, this comes with a kit that naturally has zone control in it with DPS and underrated burst to boot.

HateDaddyJun 16, 20152 votes

wow downvoted by Azir mains

They probably yelled Shurima while they pressed the downvote button

HYATERIAJun 16, 20157 votes

OH NO I WAS DOWN VOTED FOR HAVING AN OPINION SO I AM MAKING FUN OF THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME. PAY ATTENTION TO ME AND MY POST!

HateDaddyJun 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

OH NO I WAS DOWN VOTED FOR HAVING AN OPINION SO I AM MAKING FUN OF THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH ME. PAY ATTENTION TO ME AND MY POST!

Yeah, see, when you make a post like this in capslock trying to be witty, it's hilariously ironic how dumb you look doing it. It'd be nice to actually hear opinions - that's the thing, I'm not. Just terrible players hiding behind downvotes because they know I'm right.

HYATERIAJun 16, 20155 votes

Because regardless of information and facts. You will only disagree and be toxic. I'm not even main Azir (or play him really) but I know the internet. Anyway, you're suggestion only a nerf and no buffs anywhere else to make up for it. Specially how recently he was just buff after being nerf that put him in a bad state. A good balance change (to me anyway) is while nerfing one area to make him weaker, while buffing somewhere to keep them in a good state. If not, just a bad state. If you're just wanting him to be nerf, you just don't like playing against him, and prefer never seeing him regardless how others feel about it.

HateDaddyJun 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Because regardless of information and facts. You will only disagree and be toxic. I'm not even main Azir (or play him really) but I know the internet. Anyway, you're suggestion only a nerf and no buffs anywhere else to make up for it. Specially how recently he was just buff after being nerf that put him in a bad state. A good balance change (to me anyway) is while nerfing one area to make him weaker, while buffing somewhere to keep them in a good state. If not, just a bad state. If you're just wanting him to be nerf, you just don't like playing against him, and prefer never seeing him regardless how others feel about it.

I'm not going to be toxic, give me a post and I'm going to discuss it with you civilly.

Here's the deal: in several cases, you do want to compensate other areas when removing power from a specific one because as you stated, naturally a nerf is a reduction of power in that area. In Azirs case, you could literally reduce the duration of his wall to 2 seconds and it'd still be enormously powerful. The displacement is the strongest part of his ult, everything else needs to come at a certain level of power. The damage doesn't bother me, the initial placement of the wall doesn't bother me because I believe the spells range is 250, so that's pretty short for a squishy glass cannon mage who has to get in the thick of things, 2 seconds duration alone gives him enough time to safely retreat to a distance to cast spells without worries. This is what is called unnecessary power, the last nerfs were harsh and over the top, I don't disagree. But this change alone barely does anything to his overall level of power while significantly reducing levels of unnecessary power tied into his wall and it's duration.

Tl;dr he has enough power in the displacement and damage, it doesn't need a 7 second long duration in a game where teamfights are often won and lost in between 4-5 seconds.

HYATERIAJun 17, 20152 votes

Regardless, you're asking for a nerf without suggesting buffing anywhere else you're going to make him feel weaker to players. Allowing players to feel less satisfy as being Azir. A nerf to a champion that makes feel less satisfy as being that character is always to much of a nerf. Azir uses ult and makes a difference in the team fight is an awesome feeling. A lot of that has to do with the duration of his ult. He needs some sort of compensation to make up for it.

SasogwaJun 16, 20152 votes

SHURIMA

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 16, 20151 votes

true story. i think 4 seconds at all ranks is WAY enough.

HateDaddyJun 16, 20152 votes

{quoted}

true story. i think 4 seconds at all ranks is WAY enough.

Don't worry Gold and Below still think he's weak for some reason lol

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 16, 20151 votes

well, i really wonder about his winrate too sometimes. for me, hes the strongest midlaner by a long shot. literally, lol.

HateDaddyJun 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

well, i really wonder about his winrate too sometimes. for me, hes the strongest midlaner by a long shot. literally, lol.

Winrate only matters so much. You can't take winrate as a factor alone and say its why a champion is UP/OP. For example, Pre Silence removal Leblanc was overpowered, this was agreed upon by literally everyone including pros. But in solo queue, she had a 44% winrate. Why is it she had a 44% winrate? For starters, she is easy to play mechanically but achieving her goals actually takes a bit of skill. Furthermore her late game is rather weak because yes, she can still burst a target but by the time everything has banshees etc, it's hard to pull off your full combo in doing this. So she's extremely snowbally with s rather tough to play late game, and with a high pickrate (which she had a 12% pickrate if memory serves correctly), it's no surprise she had such a low winrate in solo queue while being absurdly overpowered in competitive and high elo.

Anyone who takes winrate as their only factor for balance is a moron, there's more to the balance of a champion than their winrate. Rammus at one point had a 58% winrate in solo queue in season 4 but literally never got played in competitive (outside of one random game in worlds). There are things you can take from a winrate and apply that to an argument for or against a said champion as a contribution to your point but anyone who says "lol muh winrate" and nothing more needs to be dismissed immediately.

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 16, 20151 votes

well, there surely is more to balance than winrates, but i kinda like the leblanc and rammus arguments. while rammus peaked at 59,5% winrate that time, he sat at only 4% popularity. this means, the ones who actually won their games were most likely a few rammus mains who knew their shit. THO this doesnt mean hes not overpowered, it means if you know his shit, he can do very well. and i do remember rammus was thriving off the very ad heavy assassin meta back then. but then, everybody picked him up because of his winrate and thus, the winrate dropped to about 55% and then even lower after a shift in meta.

the leblanc topic tho... you see, her winrate in diamond was also never above 46% even on the korean server. she DID dominate the LCS for some time and i could even understand a nerf based on that because yes, the game should be balanced for the best. still, i to the day dont understand how people say she was actually overpowered, especially for soloQ players. like the reason her winrate was low is because she lost alot. makes sense right.

maybe she sometimes snowballed super hard and won games big time, but as often she didnt and probably lost big time aswell. now what remains is only the losing big time part. i dont know, i feel like leblanc has been patched in a very weird and not really understandable way. now she has been nerfed AGAIN even tho seeing little play in the pro scene and having even less winrate in soloQ. like, whats the point? because noobs say shes frustrating to play against? but thats like 95% of all league champs for noobs.

the thing with azirs winrate i guess comes from the same problem as leblancs. they both have a very specific pattern of what they want to do, and if their team stays in their effective space of power, they are very strong. tho if you are not playing into their strength, they actually lose most of it and have little to cover their weaknesses. but THIS was obvious for me when looking at leblanc while i dont actually see any real weaknesses from azir. i just really wonder where his winrate comes from. for me, hes TOTALLY he best, most solid midlaner in all situations. and THE best teamfighter.

also, "mechanical difficulty" isnt really a thing because basically everyone is physically able to control every champion at LCS level, mechanically speaking. it only applies to complete beginners and i doubt that all the azir losses come from bronze players.

you know, just makes me wonder. like if i look at my own soloQ games from diamond and someone would just ask me straight up "what soloQ winrate do you think azir has?" i would say about 80%. tho realisticly, i would think about 53%.

HateDaddyJun 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

well, there surely is more to balance than winrates, but i kinda like the leblanc and rammus arguments. while rammus peaked at 59,5% winrate that time, he sat at only 4% popularity. this means, the ones who actually won their games were most likely a few rammus mains who knew their shit. THO this doesnt mean hes not overpowered, it means if you know his shit, he can do very well. and i do remember rammus was thriving off the very ad heavy assassin meta back then. but then, everybody picked him up because of his winrate and thus, the winrate dropped to about 55% and then even lower after a shift in meta.

the leblanc topic tho... you see, her winrate in diamond was also never above 46% even on the korean server. she DID dominate the LCS for some time and i could even understand a nerf based on that because yes, the game should be balanced for the best. still, i to the day dont understand how people say she was actually overpowered, especially for soloQ players. like the reason her winrate was low is because she lost alot. makes sense right.

maybe she sometimes snowballed super hard and won games big time, but as often she didnt and probably lost big time aswell. now what remains is only the losing big time part. i dont know, i feel like leblanc has been patched in a very weird and not really understandable way. now she has been nerfed AGAIN even tho seeing little play in the pro scene and having even less winrate in soloQ. like, whats the point? because noobs say shes frustrating to play against? but thats like 95% of all league champs for noobs.

the thing with azirs winrate i guess comes from the same problem as leblancs. they both have a very specific pattern of what they want to do, and if their team stays in their effective space of power, they are very strong. tho if you are not playing into their strength, they actually lose most of it and have little to cover their weaknesses. but THIS was obvious for me when looking at leblanc while i dont actually see any real weaknesses from azir. i just really wonder where his winrate comes from. for me, hes TOTALLY he best, most solid midlaner in all situations. and THE best teamfighter.

also, "mechanical difficulty" isnt really a thing because basically everyone is physically able to control every champion at LCS level, mechanically speaking. it only applies to complete beginners and i doubt that all the azir losses come from bronze players.

you know, just makes me wonder. like if i look at my own soloQ games from diamond and someone would just ask me straight up "what soloQ winrate do you think azir has?" i would say about 80%. tho realisticly, i would think about 53%.

yeah exactly, there's severa contributing factors to a champions winrate, especially in solo queue. Like, many champions that get played competitively aren't even that great in solo queue but it all trickles down. So eventually, what's perma banned in pros becomes perma banned in solo queue, even if it's not particularly good in solo queue (which I think for Leblancs case, outside of great LBs, she's not a good solo queue pick). It's all perspective too, because what we see at higher levels of play is vastly different than what most people here will ever see so in a sense, there's no way they could understand.

AyRe CoNteMpTJun 16, 20151 votes

totally agree with that last sentence. tho it makes me kinda sad.

ProvengreilJun 16, 20153 votes

Even ~~challenger~~ bronzies aren't delusional enough to think they can truly play him properly, only ekko has a higher mechanical potential. Maybe he's fun to play, it looks that way (never tried), but the few that pick him do so because they want to, not because they're particularly good. everyone else would rather win.

HateDaddyJun 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Even ~~challenger~~ bronzies aren't delusional enough to think they can truly play him properly, only ekko has a higher mechanical potential. Maybe he's fun to play, it looks that way (never tried), but the few that pick him do so because they want to, not because they're particularly good. everyone else would rather win.

Being hard to play doesn't justify being overpowered

ProvengreilJun 16, 20151 votes

uh...did you even read my post? I was talking about why he's percieved as weak in gold and below. Gold and below he kind of is weak. Because they typically do not play him very well.

Also, the 7 second ult isn't OP, really. if he shoves you back like that, go around, or cut your losses and leave. From a lockdown perspective I'll take azir over being thrashed by gnar, caught in an ori ult, put in a jarvan ult, or even just blitzgrabbed; those are all far more likely to lead to your inescapable death and are all far easier to set up. As terrain generators and AOE displacement/lockdown go, Azir's may be unique but it'd be quite a specific scenario for him to do something absolutely no one else could adequately replicate.

HateDaddyJun 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

uh...did you even read my post? I was talking about why he's percieved as weak in gold and below. Gold and below he kind of is weak. Because they typically do not play him very well.

Also, the 7 second ult isn't OP, really. if he shoves you back like that, go around, or cut your losses and leave. From a lockdown perspective I'll take azir over being thrashed by gnar, caught in an ori ult, put in a jarvan ult, or even just blitzgrabbed; those are all far more likely to lead to your inescapable death and are all far easier to set up. As terrain generators and AOE displacement/lockdown go, Azir's may be unique but it'd be quite a specific scenario for him to do something absolutely no one else could adequately replicate.

I'm not really arguing with you, just echoing what you were saying and pointing out that skill doesn't justify absurd power, that's all. Chill mang, I'm in the same boat as you playing the song boats and hos.

Also, the difference between those champions and Azir is while their lockdown is better and easier accessed, that's largely their biggest contribution to a fight. You could argue Azirs disengagement and zoning isn't even his biggest strength, especially once he has items because he completely shreads teams to pieces. Removing unnecessary power, in the form of a 7 second duration ult, is a good place to start when considering any reduction of power in a kit like Azir's. Will that solve his issues? No I highly doubt it, but as I stated its a good place to start instead of just flat out butchering him, which isn't what I want either.

ProvengreilJun 16, 20151 votes

to your first paragraph, I guess I misinterpreted your post. Sorry.

Now that we're discussing his zoning potential, however, I don't think it's unnecessary at all, particularly as the new meta favors longer teamfights. I think if you wanted to safely nerf him, start with his AOE damage; maybe for every enemy champ hit by an "auto", reduce outgoing damage to each champ by 5%. 2 or 3 of his soldiers hitting for 75% of their normal damage to the whole team will still end you, but you have a second to try and do something about it rather than take so much damage from the first shot that it's already over.

HateDaddyJun 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

to your first paragraph, I guess I misinterpreted your post. Sorry.

Now that we're discussing his zoning potential, however, I don't think it's unnecessary at all, particularly as the new meta favors longer teamfights. I think if you wanted to safely nerf him, start with his AOE damage; maybe for every enemy champ hit by an "auto", reduce outgoing damage to each champ by 5%. 2 or 3 of his soldiers hitting for 75% of their normal damage to the whole team will still end you, but you have a second to try and do something about it rather than take so much damage from the first shot that it's already over.

That's probably not a terrible idea, but typically teamfights are only lasting longer now because of tanks being in a better overall spot, which can come and go depending on the meta. Let's put it like this: do you agree that his ult lasting 7 seconds is necessary? In just 2-3 seconds, regardless of where you're positioned from the knock back, you can walk around it anyway. So why have it last so long in the first place? It's totally unnecessary and is a small level of power that can be strong in certain situations. For example, if Azir ults you in the jungle between terrain, you're fucked. I don't know, if even rare at best of this occurring, if that's okay honestly.

As for the damage nerfs, it's good as I stated but I don't know if touching his damage is ideal rather than adjusting the power of his raw zone control (which to be fair and to your point, with his kit it's hard to do without touching his damage or reducing his soldiers range).

ProvengreilJun 17, 20151 votes

I think his ult duration is perfectly fine. If you can walk around it in 3 seconds, it has to outlast that duration to make someone bother to. Honestly, talking to you i feel like your issue is what happens when he uses his ult perfectly, but that's just rewarding good play. in the jungle scenario, you can say similar things about rumble, velkoz, anivia, cho, lucian, bard, twitch, etc. Honestly, if the enemy team has Azir, I just don't fight in the jungles at all. kite back into lanes or rivers where his ult means less.

As for him ulting you into terrain, I've personally never seen this happen. does it pin you to the wall? because that sounds more like...not really a bug as much as an exploit? IDK, I don't have a good word for it.

DedriusJun 16, 20151 votes

People don't seem to like criticism to azir on boards, I give it a month until "nerf azir" posts get upvotes but until then guys like us will have to wait.

HateDaddyJun 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

People don't seem to like criticism to azir on boards, I give it a month until "nerf azir" posts get upvotes but until then guys like us will have to wait.

That's ok, most players on here are low elo so what's actually good isn't even getting played at their level because it hasnt trickled down yet. They still think Kha'Zix is weak lol

rtbf221146393Jun 16, 20151 votes

Get downvoted you disgusting male.

HateDaddyJun 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=SIREN Berta,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEzOUxML,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-06-16T22:03:12.005+0000)

Get downvoted you disgusting male.

lol Sirens

Baited and outsmarted? More like you're not even good