https://i.gyazo.com/02e87584928d6aa13485120be0672daa.png
so did you just confirm that you do not watch pro play at all?
want to know which adc is actually unseen in pro?
should be viable in competitive teamplay, yet has seen ZERO games since a lot of patches
has absolutly no fucking reason to be picked in an environment like pro play, yet is still picked
and you want to buff her because she is "unseen"
good one
Daddy Ants6 votesVayne (unseen in pro, on the weak side in regular play
People forget, Riot has more accurate internal data for win rates etc than we'd ever dream to have.
D357R0Y3R1 votessivir is definitly better than vayne in regular right? lel
and 49% win rate 10% pick rate is weak now, meanwhile when people asked for darius buffs and he had the same stats people say it's not weak the same people saying that janna is fine with 49% win rate in an other thread
this is vayne mains for ya
Rexxiee5 votesVayne is bad both in competitive and in solo q now.
Daddy Ants1 votesVayne is bad both in competitive and in solo q now.
One of the few in this thread talking any sense
Ragnaveil1 votesNot to mention her most completed builds, On-hit+Crit for Platinum and above, and Botrk Full Crit for everything below plat, currently stand at less than 40% winrate across all ELOs with 5000+ games played.
She stands as the last ADC champion with True Damage being a decent part of their DPS. Corki was the other, but that was changed to magic long ago. Twitch doesn't count considering the true damage on passive is hardly noticeable as damage (Idk if there was any others that did true damage before the marksmen rework long ago).
I feel like that the W is the one thing hurting her considering it consists of 25% of her damage and is effective against tanks mainly when we dont particularly live in a tank meta anymore. Add the fact On hit and Crit were changed quite a bit, and you come to present day Vayne, a character completely of her time.
Also think her passive could be something else but keep the current one's buff on the ult. That's my thoughts on her honestly, doesn't mean that it's the right direction to look at.
Daddy Ants1 votesNot to mention her most completed builds, On-hit+Crit for Platinum and above, and Botrk Full Crit for everything below plat, currently stand at less than 40% winrate across all ELOs with 5000+ games played.
She stands as the last ADC champion with True Damage being a decent part of their DPS. Corki was the other, but that was changed to magic long ago. Twitch doesn't count considering the true damage on passive is hardly noticeable as damage (Idk if there was any others that did true damage before the marksmen rework long ago).
I feel like that the W is the one thing hurting her considering it consists of 25% of her damage and is effective against tanks mainly when we dont particularly live in a tank meta anymore. Add the fact On hit and Crit were changed quite a bit, and you come to present day Vayne, a character completely of her time.
Also think her passive could be something else but keep the current one's buff on the ult. That's my thoughts on her honestly, doesn't mean that it's the right direction to look at.
She had sufficient power against non tank targets before they did the nerfs in 8.2
V8.2
Stats Attack speed growth reduced to 3.3% from 4%.
Final Hour Bonus attack damage reduced to 20 / 30 / 40 from 30 / 50 / 70.
These are why she sucks at killing squishier targets..
Now I can understand they were needed WHEN INFINITY EDGE WAS AMPLIFYING CRIT DAMAGE but now that IE isn't a major contributor to marksmen burst and her Q critical strike mechanic has been gone for over a year...
I believe these nerfs should be reverted or at least partially reverted.
The things that made Vayne overpowered in the preseason have been nerfed/fixed since then
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/4/46/Fleet_Footwork_rune.png 
Q crit was removed in 7.19 , Old 
Ragnaveil1 votesThe reason why I bring up the W is the fact it takes up a bit of damage in her kit, and with IE's conversion, she does less physical damage compared to almost every single AD that is meta currently. Partial reverting Final Hour seems reasonable (20 / 40 / 60 from 20 / 30 / 40 for the Bonus AD)
Considering her Q also doesn't crit anymore, I think it would be visable to increase the damage it deals via ratio increase. Like going from 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70% AD which it is currently to something like 55 / 60 / 65 / 75 / 90% AD. She doesn't build a lot of high AD items currently. If on-hit begins to be a problem, i'd make the q be only able to apply just lifesteal and W (if its even possible to do so). I still feel like this ratio increase would incentive more AD Crit builds than on hit since you would want to take advantage of the ratio increase.
Also might look at increasing her AD stat growth (dunno what it is currently). In return lower W's damage from 4 / 6.5 / 9 / 11.5 / 14% of target's maximum health to something like 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 / 12% of target's maximum health and maybe lower the minimum it can do from 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 / 110 to 45 / 60 / 75 / 85 / 100.
It doesn't have to be these specific things. I feel her power budget should be invested into the Q, R, and AD stat growth more than it being invested in W currently.
Daddy Ants1 votesThe reason why I bring up the W is the fact it takes up a bit of damage in her kit, and with IE's conversion, she does less physical damage compared to almost every single AD that is meta currently. Partial reverting Final Hour seems reasonable (20 / 40 / 60 from 20 / 30 / 40 for the Bonus AD)
Considering her Q also doesn't crit anymore, I think it would be visable to increase the damage it deals via ratio increase. Like going from 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70% AD which it is currently to something like 55 / 60 / 65 / 75 / 90% AD. She doesn't build a lot of high AD items currently. If on-hit begins to be a problem, i'd make the q be only able to apply just lifesteal and W (if its even possible to do so). I still feel like this ratio increase would incentive more AD Crit builds than on hit since you would want to take advantage of the ratio increase.
Also might look at increasing her AD stat growth (dunno what it is currently). In return lower W's damage from 4 / 6.5 / 9 / 11.5 / 14% of target's maximum health to something like 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 / 12% of target's maximum health and maybe lower the minimum it can do from 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 / 110 to 45 / 60 / 75 / 85 / 100.
It doesn't have to be these specific things. I feel her power budget should be invested into the Q, R, and AD stat growth more than it being invested in W currently.
I did say in a reply to the gameplay thoughts that Silver Bolts is not what they should buff.
She needs her dueling power back, She is not struggling against Bruisers and Tanks.
Even the r/VayneMains community does not want Silver Bolts buffed any further.
They also believe she has enough tank busting power.
Ragnaveil1 votesGlad we came to an agreement on that.
Daddy Ants1 votesGlad we came to an agreement on that.
Giving back her attack speed per level and/or some of her ultimate AD ( not all) would be sufficient.
Ragnaveil1 votesYeah, I wouldn't mind giving her back some AS per level.
Daddy Ants1 votesYeah, I wouldn't mind giving her back some AS per level.
I'd like to not be forced into Legend Alacrity tbh.
So I'd appreciate AS per level going back to 4%.
Ragnaveil1 votesI feel you. As a person who plays Aatrox, his late could honestly be better, and it doesn't live up fully to what they said he should be. Same thing kinda applies with Vayne in her current state.
MrHaZeYo2 votesShe creates exciting gameplay and is a tank buster, she should be picked in pro for the latter reason.
Moody P2 votesdefine exciting
D357R0Y3R2 voteswatching an adc rightclicking is exciting
meanwhile 
who has to aim ult, animation cancel, and fight with 500 range AA won't get buffed
[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
MrHaZeYo1 votesAssassins tend to make "exciting" game play for viewers, opposed to the Tank/ADC/Mage strategic comps. I mean think about all those times you've had or played against a Vayne who just did these cool outplays or backpacked her team. As much as I don't want to see more Vaynes in my games, I can't deny that she does indeed create exciting gameplay to viewers.
5050BS2 votesMeddler basically said "We will buff champs that make Flashy plays so pros will play those in Worlds and nerf or leave champs that are boring to watch."
This is one of the BIG problems with LOL is this "Pro Play" shit
Beatrice falls1 votesSource ?
Pokemonred2002 votesMeddler mentioned this in a gameplay thoughts post a few hours ago.
Beatrice falls2 votesMeddler mentioned this in a gameplay thoughts post a few hours ago.
Lol and then they say they're not enforcing a meta. Boi I never get tired of these people
haaaaaaalp3 votes[{quoted}](name=Beatrice falls,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y1fkuVrY,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-29T20:58:48.168+0000)
Lol and then they say they're not enforcing a meta. Boi I never get tired of these people
To be fair, the idea of buffing a champion that is too weak to see pick isn't the same as enforcing a meta. The exact line was "unseen in pro, on the weak side in regular play" which implies that the champion is underpowered in all environments. The concept is fine as long as buffs are targetted towards making the champion in line with other champions and not into a god tier pick/ban every game.
Not that I trust riot to execute the change properly but at least they have the intentions right.
D357R0Y3R2 voteshow the fuck is the intention right? she isn't unseen in pro, and weak in regular? i don't think 49% win rate and 10% pick rate is weak but then again riot buff champions that have 50% win rate
5050BS1 votesHe also said they dont want to buff boring to watch champs and where going to buff "flashy" champs.
They are forcing a meta of "Flashy $$$ PLAYZ for the LC$"
haaaaaaalp3 votesHe also said they dont want to buff boring to watch champs and where going to buff "flashy" champs.
They are forcing a meta of "Flashy $$$ PLAYZ for the LC$"
First time hearing about this from an official source. Do you have the exact quote?
Fízz v21 votesvayne is played more now because its a tank meta top/jg again
but what makes even less sense is buffing 
LUL
D357R0Y3R1 votesit makes sense because it's world patch
renek is absolutly not played in pro
he doesn't have 7 games or 8 like vayne
Fízz v21 votesbut why him? theres many champs that arent played in pro and that dont have https://i.gyazo.com/49303a4560337db0c0dcd086ce5c06f6.png
D357R0Y3R1 votesYea I wish they buffed ekko for world, he has almost the same stats than renek
and to answer to you, they're afraid of buffing champions that can easily break world like kalista or azir and they don't want to buff things that they don't find exciting, but they don't tell you that hehehe
Fízz v21 votesfizz and zoe are more exciting than ekko imo :^)
D357R0Y3R2 voteszoe: don't find her exciting at all, you might have fun playing her but as someone who watches pro i'm only talking about watching someone playing zoe
fizz: tbh I think fizz will get picked once they nerf ryze
ryze hardcounters assassins, and is 100% pick/ban after him, syndra leblanc orianna are the most picked (not counting akali who is getting nerfed) and fizz destroys all 3 and is fine since his last buffs (even after the nerf)
Fízz v21 votesi like zoe because she can set up plays and doesnt usually JUST farm all game
And I dont think Fizz beats leblanc or orianna tbh, but yeah he was picked against Syndra last worlds
D357R0Y3R2 votesleblanc's strength is that at lvl 3 with rank 2 Q and rank 1 W + runes she can hard win a trade
but lvl 3 leblanc against lvl 3 fizz, I don't think leblanc can do anything she will take a negative trade tbh
and with fizz's buff his all in at lvl 6 is stronger so with orianna's 26 base mr he might kill her while dodging her shit
Fízz v21 votesWell Fizz wasnt even picked into Ori or LB on 8.15. I think the champ just isnt good enough to be played a lot.. full melee, cant push without 1) being inside the wave and 2) using his main escape, a lot of delays/skillshots (so LB should never get hit by Fizz E with her mobility),... Also Kassadin might be meta at worlds, who should also shit on Fizz
D357R0Y3R2 votesyea kassadin will definitly be meta they broke him whenever they tried to buff his early game
as for fizz, he couldn't be meta in 8.15 where orianna didn't get nerfed and ryze was still ryze
it''s all about counterpicking friend zoe also didn't get nerfed and she was a safer version of fizz, because as you said he's melee
leblanc is safer than fizz, but i'm asking you the fizz main if she does better than him into syndra and ori i remember a syndra oneshoting a leblanc in a pro game
Fízz v21 votesAt this point Im not sure if they will even play Fizz at all tbh. They might just counter Syndra with Ekko like in season 7 and then Fizz has no job.
The mid meta for worlds so far looks like Ryze and Akali perma banned/picked unless nerfed hard, Syndra, Cassio, LB, Irelia, probably Kassadin, maybe Azir Taliyah and Malz sometimes. Ori doesnt even seem to be played this patch in eu/na lcs
And the only good matchup for Fizz out of those is Syndra imo, which Ekko or even Irelia probably counter better
Chembaron Yamada1 votesLooking at the Fizz name and Zoe icon
Absolutely no bias, right?
Daddy Ants1 votesLooking at the Fizz name and Zoe icon
Absolutely no bias, right?
I'd rather watch Ekko or Zoe.
Seeing Fizz return to lane with a Sheen then proceed to delete the enemy laner every time R is up is boring.
Daddy Ants1 votes[{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y1fkuVrY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-29T20:59:26.810+0000)
vayne is played more now because its a tank meta top/jg again
but what makes even less sense is buffing
Ironically I'm seeing carry tops and junglers more than tanks.
Fízz v21 votesin soloq sure, but in lcs/worlds its gonna be mostly tanks probably
ned the kled1 votesshe's unseen because she Q'd in her ult. that's why she's unseen [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]
Critmaster Garen1 votesgaren is also unseen in pro. waiting for buffs now.
because its not like riot has a bias to which champions they specifically want to see at worlds, and theyre balancing the game for every champion to have a place in the game, right?
that would be silly.
