Riot's philosophy finally turned the game into dogshit after so much years

D357R0Y3R··357 votes·32,410 views

Ever since xypherous stated that offense should outscale defense we finally reached a point in season 9 where anyone who enjoyed strategic plays can fuck right off.

It has been obvious with how adaptive stats outstats the defensive choices of runes, that Riot does not want defense to be good, they do not want people to think like "Oh I do not want to get oneshot, and be able to outplay my enemy!", they want them to think like "I'm going full davai and oneshot everyone until I get oneshot".

After season 2, we nerfed armor, mr, we removed force of nature, we nerfed warmog, we nerfed almost every defensive option and introduced BORK and liandry. In season 4 and season 7 we nerfed defense even more In season 3 we introduced black cleaver %armor shred in season 8 we introduced conqueror in season 8 we buffed MR pen

What about champions? We removed taric's armor aura We removed sona's armor/mr aura We removed Soraka's temporar 110 armor buff in favor of turning her into a toxic healer, EVEN THOUGH MORELLO SAID THAT DEDICATED HEALERS ARE NOT GOOD FOR THE GAME. Hey guys, an enchanter able to make you tank physical damage aggression every 20 seconds is toxic, let's change it to a heal bot champ that has almost no downtime until they have no hp. We removed Maokai's ult damage reduction for his team We removed Jarvan's armor aura

Anything that made your team tanking more damage got removed, instead we have spells that completly nullify agression like Braum ETahmKench W (very fun design btw).

And tanks? What did Riot do with tanks since they had to make them useful? They all got reworked into toxic CC bots

It makes sense, since defense should get blantantly ignored by offense after 20-25-30 min, how can we make tanks good? Make them able to remove a champion from a teamfight for 4 sec straight with knock ups AND BUFF THEIR DAMAGE. This is what happened with Galio Ornn Sejuani Gragas Maokai Zac and all "modern tanks"

You can't tank anymore, so now you either have a bruiser lvl of damage like galio/gragas/ornn Or you get to CC for I don't know how much time, with new displacements that appeared from no where like ZAC, galio, gragas and old tanks like Malphite are losing their niche for no reasons Remember when Malphite used to hardcounters Jax and Irelia? LOL THINK AGAIN Think fucking again because if you can't remove jax or irelia from the game for 4 sec now, they're going to shred you so hard Soon, malphite's attack speed slow will get changed into a knock up like Nunu

and this made tanks so shit in soloq, but so op in pro play because their coordination can make use of their insane engage and insane cc

So now, to make them good in soloq, they want to turn Ornn into a bruiser, by nerfing his cc and giving him 73% max hp damage and it's the fucking truth what the fuck it's just the truth, even Sejuani is getting the same treatment Sion Look at his current damage after that they buffed his damage

Defense doesn't matter anymore, it's all about damage and cc now

and bruisers? what about bruisers? Well, Riot thought that those poor melees need to be viable in the game, you would think that they would trade range for defense?

Again Think again No, they need to PIERCE defense, even more

Darius had 25% pen armor for years suddenly, in season 8 we increase it to 30% then to 35% we introduce Camille who's able to deal 1k true damage every few seconds Melees are ignoring more and more the defense of this game, Fiora Gangplank Yasuo , and now Aatrox Urgot gets SO MUCH %hp damage passively. Aatrox Irelia gets to either pierce shielding, or reduce healing We gave Nasus Garen % armor shred This is league in its purest form in season 9

A game where tanks will either deal bruiser lvl of damage, or have bullshit cc A game where bruisers will ignore almost all of your defense

https://i.gyazo.com/d183ebf734af3e3a5965f291925aeba8.jpg

Say anything about season 2, but in that season you had much more strategy nobody even the few assassins straight up oneshot you in high elo

Because in pro play or high elo, mages or adc went for TWO defensive items ADC build was like boots+IE+PD+Banshee+GA And you had no way of ignoring this defense

But riot was like "uhu duhu, defense is boring guys"

Even when you had mages and ADCS picked as much as bruisers and tanks

you had as much bruisers and tanks played, currently the only bruisers played are either hypermobile or have bullshit ranged spells (Aatrox Urgot)

You buff Darius's armor pen, and he doesn't show up even when he can straight up ignore your defense Why? BECAUSE DARIUS NEEDS HIS OWN DEFENSE TO MATTER FFS

You think by giving Nasus 35% armor pen, he's going to be good when his ult armor/mr won't matter at all? You can give him a gamebreaking buff that is 50% cdr on Q under ult, it won't change anything

Riot game Your issue was thinking that buffing damage non stop on anyone could fix the game or fix balance you just ruined the fun for the people that loved long trades the people that loved strategy, and loved to abuse window of powers

Now, your designs are all "ahahaha you didn't dodge skillshot, get fucking destroyed lol"

256 Comments

Over Innsmouth105 votes

Big agree.

Moody P70 votes

damn and I already had the same complaint put into notepad

beat me to it..

buff defense

Teridax6858 votes

I think there's a fair difference though between "damage eventually outscales defense" and "damage is literally the only thing that matters". A game in which carries eventually get to break through even very durable tank walls is a game that won't go on endlessly, but right now, the problem is simply that everyone is given too much damage, and damage is the only thing that's valued on the map as well. Durability's been actively discouraged for years, to the point where even tanks over time have been pushed to buy damage stats instead, and that's simply added a whole new layer of bursty champions with tons of CC, which has made the game even less stable and fun to play. The state of damage right now is so out of wack that I'm not sure Riot even has an idea of what would constitute reasonable damage, and even if they did, they don't seem at all intent on fixing damage either.

Tahminatrix 12 votes

And every tank that does get buffed gets MOAR DAMAGE

Hi lm Zoe57 votes

And this is the reason Zoe is back in business. Because nobody can now tank her fuckin' dmg [sg-miss-fortune]

Malix Farwin9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi lm Zoe,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=625rzeP9,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-25T11:52:36.157+0000)

And this is the reason Zoe is back in business. Because nobody can now tank her fuckin' dmg [sg-miss-fortune]

I'd say its more so because of Dark Harvest ATM lol.

Yara017 votes

item 3105 defensive aura was removed item 3190 was also gutted unless your a fucking super tank.

FuzzyLumps14 votes

The problem is that people keep playing the game because they've invested so much time and money into it, but if Riot keeps seeing a large player base and also keeps getting money then they won't think they're doing anything wrong.

Lil Homie busta13 votes

You've talked it all. The problem isn't the balance team. It's the live gameplay team, more specific their direction and philosophy. But I bet they will ignore this well made and logical thread like many others.

OneMustFall11 votes

[deleted]

Moody P55 votes

OP isn't silver though

DuskDaUmbreon11 votes

"Silver" is not a rank. "Silver" is a state of mind.

D357R0Y3R50 votes

so I have a "silver" state of mind

Even when I know that Darius Zed Nasus are dogshit, when they're actually low elo nightmares=?

makes sense

RyzeTheSmurfMage27 votes

Well you could say Nasus is actually dogshit cause he IS a dog ba dum tsss (end me)

Madjack015 votes

{quoted}

Well you could say Nasus is actually dogshit cause he IS a dog ba dum tsss (end me)

If we make an analogy, you are a human turd cause you ARE a human.

ba dum tsss (pls don't ban me)

King Braum149 votes

Too be fair, if silver, which makes up of nearly 50% of the entire playerbase on it's own, doesn't enjoy the game. Then perhaps there is an issue with the game.

Zerenza28 votes

I don't think people understand this as much as they should.

exiled trickster18 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Braum,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=625rzeP9,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-11-25T12:26:18.288+0000)

Too be fair, if silver, which makes up of nearly 50% of the entire playerbase on it's own, doesn't enjoy the game. Then perhaps there is an issue with the game.

Thank you!

MkShenGreatAgain5 votes

The whole balance for pros idea really is questionable. People do know that if something "Disrupts the pro play meta" they just make a new meta right lmao

Madsin2511 votes

Spot on.

They knew if they were going to give us stat paths they had to make the resolve tree 10000% garbage because god forbid defense actually mean anything.

The "burst war' this game has become is so boring, there is ZERO build diversity, only burst.

While I understand defenses can be hard to balance and "tank ekkos" may spawn from it but they just took the lazy way out in terms of balancing.

ºSERAPHº9 votes

the plan is to tilt everyone with snowbally bull shit then ban them so that only streamers and esports exist

Talh9 votes

+1,000,000 to OP. These are my thoughts exactly.

Also, take notice of all the naysayers -- their comments end up "below threshold" to even be SHOWN.

Time to start listening, Riot. The vast majority wants damage reduced so we can actually play the game.

Míellá8 votes

So we're going to ignore the time of tank meta? I'm 100% sure they introduced those items cuz of that toxic meta.

D357R0Y3R52 votes

Did you read the thread? Tanks dominated because of broken CCs and initiation, not because of a good defense that allowed them to tank

Combined that with Riot believing that defense shouldn't matter and giving %hp damage to all tanks Chogath Gragas Sejuani Ornn ZacShen then how the fuck do you not get a tank meta

If you want to talk about season 2 meta, then explain to me how we had bruisers and tanks played in the same game? Literally the game in the screenshot had Rumble Yorick Jax Maokai Alistar banned

We had tanks, bruisers, and even Vladimir/Rumble being gamebreaking with spellvamp what else do you want more? You want 5 mage comp? 5 ADC comp?

give me a break

Socon7 votes

Oh? So everyone who watched the lcs just IMAGINED haunterz on tsm tanking over 31 turret shots. Yeah you right its definitely the CC thats broken and not being dealt 0 fucking damage or bascially becoming useless because of items like item 3143 item 3075 item 3047 item 3111 item 3190 item 3109 item 3110. You know its not like item 3140 item 3222 summoner 1 exist, or the amount of mobility that exists on assasins and adcs that can basically just dodge all your cc. NAH its definitely not because a tank could literally 1v1 an adc and the adc would practically kill themselves trying to hit you.

TheSingularity16 votes

In that game he was fed, farmed and had an OBSCENE level advantage. Nexus turrets then deal the second lowest damage, 7 more than outter turrets at that stage of the game. Due to his lead, depending on the rune set up he possibly had 30-45% CDR giving his shield near constant up time and he was then healed by nami's W and redemption.

The opposing team then lacked any decent anti tank tools. Varus went burst over DPS, as did corki. Karma, mao and shaco ain't anti tank. have varus or corki build BOTRK, last whisper ect. Or grab a champ who can shred tanks, generally dps.

Stephenizgod6 votes

REMOVE RUNES REFORGED!!!

I can't stress this enough... This was the final nail in the coffin for this game, it spiked the damage creep to unseen levels (and they were already getting bad, remember when ADC's were just A-clicking on the other side of the map and 3 shotting everything in between?)

You give a burst oriented champion, designed to jump in and deal a huge burst of damage then jump out, a Rune that upon dealing their burst gets additional instantaneous burst without any possible counterplay? So you are rewarding the Assassin for landing their abilities? Is the reward for landing your abilities not already the damage they do? Why do they need more damage?

People say this brings diversity, certain champions are now viable... Yeah you are right it brought X champion back into the light, but it pushed champions A B and C who were already in the light and Top Tier into God-tier... now they are busted beyond repair... So did it really bring that champion into viability if everyone is still playing A B or C because they are busted? Just because you can play champion X without insta-feeding? I say no...

There is no diversity in Rune paths anymore, they are all just damage... Classes are all taking the same shit with some exceptions. The only tree that I feel is good and redeemable is the Inspiration Tree (with the exception of Kleptomancy, free Gold is just a different reward to damage but still with the same lack of interaction). This Tree is designed around AUGMENTING HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME, meaning how you use these Runes differs from player to player and champion to champion. Every champion that uses Electrocute or Dark Harvest uses it the exact same way... The Inspiration Tree is different, it doesn't reward after the play has been made, it happens BEFORE the play is made thus its effectiveness depends on the player, champion and situation. There are exceptions to this of course, but generally that is more on certain balance issue with other aspects of the game rather than the tree itself.

If we want to keep Runes Reforged, we need every tree to be more like the Inspiration Tree. GET RID OF ALL THE FREE FUCKING DAMAGE PLEASE... Give me some strategy, give me something I need to think about before it happens. I don't want to just roll my face across the keyboard and say welp i 1-shot that guy I am so good at game...

True Garen6 votes

{quoted}

REMOVE RUNES REFORGED!!!

I can't stress this enough... This was the final nail in the coffin for this game, it spiked the damage creep to unseen levels (and they were already getting bad, remember when ADC's were just A-clicking on the other side of the map and 3 shotting everything in between?)

You give a burst oriented champion, designed to jump in and deal a huge burst of damage then jump out, a Rune that upon dealing their burst gets additional instantaneous burst without any possible counterplay? So you are rewarding the Assassin for landing their abilities? Is the reward for landing your abilities not already the damage they do? Why do they need more damage?

People say this brings diversity, certain champions are now viable... Yeah you are right it brought X champion back into the light, but it pushed champions A B and C who were already in the light and Top Tier into God-tier... now they are busted beyond repair... So did it really bring that champion into viability if everyone is still playing A B or C because they are busted? Just because you can play champion X without insta-feeding? I say no...

There is no diversity in Rune paths anymore, they are all just damage... Classes are all taking the same shit with some exceptions. The only tree that I feel is good and redeemable is the Inspiration Tree (with the exception of Kleptomancy, free Gold is just a different reward to damage but still with the same lack of interaction). This Tree is designed around AUGMENTING HOW YOU PLAY THE GAME, meaning how you use these Runes differs from player to player and champion to champion. Every champion that uses Electrocute or Dark Harvest uses it the exact same way... The Inspiration Tree is different, it doesn't reward after the play has been made, it happens BEFORE the play is made thus its effectiveness depends on the player, champion and situation. There are exceptions to this of course, but generally that is more on certain balance issue with other aspects of the game rather than the tree itself.

If we want to keep Runes Reforged, we need every tree to be more like the Inspiration Tree. GET RID OF ALL THE FREE FUCKING DAMAGE PLEASE... Give me some strategy, give me something I need to think about before it happens. I don't want to just roll my face across the keyboard and say welp i 1-shot that guy I am so good at game...

Runes Reforged was a mistake.

Stephenizgod6 votes

TL;DR - Runes are bad umkay

2DunksFromHell5 votes

I love how you don't complain about AD carrys, who dominated game for 7 years and last 4 years spent one shotting everyone, but yea cry about bruisers

D357R0Y3R17 votes

Because I'm an ADC main I don't complain about what I play myself

2DunksFromHell5 votes

{quoted}

Because I'm an ADC main I don't complain about what I play myself

Well that's the problem, your class has been broken for how many years? And I knew you are ADC main when I saw only melee champions being called broken and overbuffed. Thats what ADC players do. You litterally play champions who right click people to death from milion of range, and you are here calling tanks and bruisers being broken and saying that defenses dont matter? Since when do defenses on ADC matter? When did ADC build defense? Old GA? 1 item? At 30min? I should be the one crying about defenses since I'm a bruiser main and even with 3 defense items i'm getting melted.

D357R0Y3R15 votes

{quoted}

I saw only melee champions being called broken and overbuffed.

nobody has been called broken and overbuffed in this thread this thread is only talking about the game design path that riot took for years

please get out if you don't want to read if you want to talk then read the thread

When did ADC build defense? Old GA? 1 item? At 30min?

https://i.gyazo.com/d183ebf734af3e3a5965f291925aeba8.jpg

I should be the one crying about defenses since I'm a bruiser main and even with 3 defense items i'm getting melted.

Then do it

2DunksFromHell2 votes

{quoted}

nobody has been called broken and overbuffed in this thread this thread is only talking about the game design path that riot took for years

please get out if you don't want to read if you want to talk then read the thread

yea but all i see here is "omg darius and nasus shred my armor" "omg tanks have so much cc and damage" "conquer is too strong"

you just refuse to admit your class has been number 1 for almost 8 years and now again we see mages bottom again with new dark harvest, they will nerf DH in next patch probably and your class gets back to be broken ;) I love how you brought up season 3 BC but didnt brought up the most broken item to ever exist-stormrazor

D357R0Y3R7 votes

{quoted}

yea but all i see here is

read again then

2DunksFromHell3 votes

{quoted}

read again then

There's nothing to read bro, you'r just pissed ADC player whos mad on the world because mages once again replaced you bot lane because of DH.

D357R0Y3R8 votes
2DunksFromHell2 votes

{quoted}

https://i.gyazo.com/1250cbd11fd35a5110a5fabb3fdcc1af.png

https://i.gyazo.com/31d910cc43c306afc4f0df05e6ea2c7e.png

Read once again once you got it right, i'll come back to talk with you

Karthus destroying everyone in bot lane right now.

D357R0Y3R looks up: "Can we get some nerfs to Nasus and Darius"

Dark Harvest is being used by 90% of champions.

D357R0Y3R looks up: "Can we delete conquer?"

Stormrazor literally breaks the game.

D357R0Y3R looks up: "can we nerf black clever?"

Moody P18 votes

this is such a sad straw man that I have to feel bad for you

mack91124 votes

I enjoy the direction the game is going on and I have lived through many different iterations of this game.

This season was the most diverse meta I have had the opportunity to be a part of.

The new pres season changes are all a healthy direction for the game.

Stracony11 votes

If you honestly believe that, you are the problem

mack91123 votes

{quoted}

If you honestly believe that, you are the problem

So because I have a different opinion than you I am wrong ?

All the people who say they like the changes on those boards are wrong

We are all a problem as you put it ??

Stracony5 votes

Yes.

it's not a difference of opinions, it's actually about what you said. That's what makes you and others like you "the problem".

Your first sentence "I enjoy the direction the game is going on and I have lived through many different iterations of this game." That's opinion with a sprinkle of BS (your next 2 sentences makes me doubt that you have played this game through many different iterations)

2nd sentence: "This season was the most diverse meta I have had the opportunity to be a part of" HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. JUST SO WRONG. So you think the BEST meta is when papa Riot hyper-buffs assassins and has only about a dozen other champs viable to even compete? This meta? really? This current Meta that made a pro bench himself and made countless streamers quit? Ok. It's your opinion, but it's wrong.

3rd sentance: "The new pres season changes are all a healthy direction for the game." you really sure about that? cause your also wrong.

simply though, i just believe you have not a fucking clue on what you are talking about. thats whats makes you the problem

mack91122 votes

{quoted}

Yes.

it's not a difference of opinions, it's actually about what you said. That's what makes you and others like you "the problem".

Your first sentence "I enjoy the direction the game is going on and I have lived through many different iterations of this game." That's opinion with a sprinkle of BS (your next 2 sentences makes me doubt that you have played this game through many different iterations)

2nd sentence: "This season was the most diverse meta I have had the opportunity to be a part of" HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. JUST SO WRONG. So you think the BEST meta is when papa Riot hyper-buffs assassins and has only about a dozen other champs viable to even compete? This meta? really? This current Meta that made a pro bench himself and made countless streamers quit? Ok. It's your opinion, but it's wrong.

3rd sentance: "The new pres season changes are all a healthy direction for the game." you really sure about that? cause your also wrong.

simply though, i just believe you have not a fucking clue on what you are talking about. thats whats makes you the problem

In all sincere honesty you sound like a toxic individual who stopped liking the game a long time ago as you barely play while ranking in season 4 and 5 then stopped.

I have been playing since season 4 almost every day with over 1200 games last season so I think my opinion is pretty valid

I recall seasons that mid and jungle had literally 3 champs you could play I remember seasons of all you can do is play a tank and protect your adc I remember seasons that top literally had 0 impact on the game.

So yes in my games (plat) I have seen the most diverse champion pools I have ever seen for every single role with plenty of opportunity for individual skill expression.

The new pre season changes give power to champions to who struggle in lane and give teams behind opportunities to come back .

Riot is doing a good job with these pre season changes and I like the direction the game is going .

Many people on this board I have chatted with agree with me as well

UpDownLeftRightAB2 votes

I have been playing since season 4 almost every day with over 1200 games last season so I think my opinion is pretty valid

You'd be surprised at how little actual in-game experience is valued. They are doing horrible with these changes. >10k games played, >5k hours. Closed beta player. See, makes my opinion no more valid.

Pika Fox2 votes

It would be utterly fucking stupid for defense to outscale offense, or even stay on par. There would be literally 0 reason not to build defense, and ADCs would never be viable or playable. Amumu would be the best champion in the game, and theres nothing you could do about it.

Base damage exists, and as long as defense is even remotely as good as offense, defense will always reign supreme.

D357R0Y3R10 votes

then explain to me why we used to pick mages and adcs?

why didn't we go for a 5 tank comp

Pika Fox1 votes

We literally had 4 tanks 1 ADC meta. The ADC existed because towers are too tanky for tanks to kill quickly and the off chance your tanks could keep you alive for 30+ seconds to damage the other tanks. Most of the time the ADC just got lolCCd and died, and youd just all back away.

D357R0Y3R8 votes

I don't remember that, care to link me a game of season 2 that had 4 tanks? Tanks in the midlane is something that never existed before Galio and Sion in 2017

The best you could do was 2 or 3 tanks with supports, but supports in season 2 had no items and were squishy (even tanks except Alistar with his ult) So you had 2 tanks, 1 mage, 1 adc, 1 support

But you could also pick 2 mages with vladimir kennen rumble abusing Will of the ancient that was broken in season 2

Explain?

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