I maintain that Ahri meta is the best meta we've had in years......

Dominick Destine·Apr 14, 2017·16 votes·1,652 views

By Ahri meta I mean that Ahri is currently the strongest champion in the game.

Let me quote myself and explain; Ahri has very clear weaknesses that you can exploit (Very low defenses, relatively short ranged poke, high mana costs, vulnerable during ult cooldown, etc.) whereas others like , say Viktor , Zed or Yasuo have none of these problems.

Ahri in general has many counter points to her abilities and while her somewhat safe laning and powerful roaming are both impressive [And allow her to be the best right now], she is heavily reliant on her ult for all-ins and safe roaming. While on cooldown, she's basically fucked if she runs into any fighter or assassin.

Again, compare this to ... say Zed, Yasuo or even Talon. I would rather see Ahri every game than any of the other alternatives.

62 Comments

BakedLotionApr 14, 20179 votes

Very low defenses except she has 10210240201400 movespeed and 3 dashes

High mana cost? lol... They're low as fuck. is 65/50/85 high to you? lmfao.

Vulnerable during ult cd... 3243020 movespeed and charm. And is her ult ever even down? Shit has like a 80 sec cd

Her range is medium range. It's not short by any means

Viktor has higher mana costs, is immobile, and is vulnerable anytime someone jumps on him. And why are you comparing assassins to a mage?

Ahri main detected.

TyrekGoldenspearApr 14, 20177 votes

Actually he's ~~draconian~~ an Evelynn main.

yoshi2790Apr 14, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Actually he's ~~draconian~~ an Evelynn main.

~~draconian~~

yoshi2790Apr 14, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Very low defenses except she has 10210240201400 movespeed and 3 dashes

High mana cost? lol... They're low as fuck. is 65/50/85 high to you? lmfao.

Vulnerable during ult cd... 3243020 movespeed and charm. And is her ult ever even down? Shit has like a 80 sec cd

Her range is medium range. It's not short by any means

Viktor has higher mana costs, is immobile, and is vulnerable anytime someone jumps on him. And why are you comparing assassins to a mage?

Ahri main detected.

Because Ahri is an assasin mage, like LeBlanc.

And Viktor has a shield, ms speed boost, huge AoE dmg that he can move around, AoE CC, AND HAS HIS OWN ITEM. Stop comparing 2 champions when you forget that one champion does have mobility and has way stronger abilities.

MohawkBirdApr 14, 20172 votes

Regardless, Ahri is nowhere near as vulnerable as OP is implying. Ahri has always been one of the highest pick rate mids with a decently high win rate to back up with probably a year now. How is that healthy?\

Imagine is Lee Sin where to have a high win rate with that absurdly high pick rate of his. People would be up in arms everywhere demanding nerfs, but since it's Ahri and not typically one of the ones people complain about like Zed, Yas, or whatever, she gets a free pass.

ShonjlApr 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Regardless, Ahri is nowhere near as vulnerable as OP is implying. Ahri has always been one of the highest pick rate mids with a decently high win rate to back up with probably a year now. How is that healthy?\

Imagine is Lee Sin where to have a high win rate with that absurdly high pick rate of his. People would be up in arms everywhere demanding nerfs, but since it's Ahri and not typically one of the ones people complain about like Zed, Yas, or whatever, she gets a free pass.

I actually find that funny, since Lee is usually below 50% winrate and people STILL hate his guts and want him gutted. I dislike Lee going Q R Q just like the next person but at least most Lees suck.

I don't hate Ahri either but she isn't hard to play as well. To be godly with her takes a lot of skill, but to be just alright and do well, you can honestly do that in your first couple games on her. Can't really say the same with things like LB or Zed or Talon or Yasuo, and that is saying something since most people dislike all of those champs.

MohawkBirdApr 14, 20171 votes

Yup, and that's a whole 'nother aspect in my books. A lot of people consider Ahri to be hard because she's skillshot reliant, whereas I think having skillshots is not criteria at all that will make a champion hard. What makes a champion hard is the mechanics or decisions behind said champion.

Ahri isn't hard in my books simply because she has 2 skillshots, like some may argue. There's a reason she is above 50% win rate with that extremely high play rate and Lee Sin is not. Some champs take a lot of skill, and Ahri is not one of them.

ShonjlApr 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yup, and that's a whole 'nother aspect in my books. A lot of people consider Ahri to be hard because she's skillshot reliant, whereas I think having skillshots is not criteria at all that will make a champion hard. What makes a champion hard is the mechanics or decisions behind said champion.

Ahri isn't hard in my books simply because she has 2 skillshots, like some may argue. There's a reason she is above 50% win rate with that extremely high play rate and Lee Sin is not. Some champs take a lot of skill, and Ahri is not one of them.

Compare her to Ziggs, that is a hard skillshot champ since if you miss everything, you literally do nothing, and it is easier than you think to miss his Q, I lost count of how many times I have seen it bounce over the target.

Big LincolnApr 14, 20172 votes

at least look him up before you say X main detected lol

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20175 votes

Ahri main detected

I don't play Ahri, I main Evelynn/support. https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=dominick+destine

Good try though.

{quoted}

Very low defenses except she has 10210240201400 movespeed and 3 dashes

That's mobility, not defense.

Zed for example , has higher HP and armor, not to mention higher base MS.

High mana cost? lol... They're low as fuck. is 65/50/85 high to you? lmfao.

If you're comparing to .... say Swain, Anivia or even Nami, yeah they're not high, but compare to someone like say.... Viktor or Annie, then yes, Ahri has high mana costs. Try to comparing apples to apples and you will find that I am correct.

Vulnerable during ult cd... 3243020 movespeed and charm.

"3243020 movement speed", yes because exaggerating makes your point stronger, not weaker, right?

Her movement speed is beneficious of course but what's your point? characters have different strengths and that temporary boost is one of Ahri's.

And is her ult ever even down? Shit has like a 80 sec cd

.... is that even an argument? what is that nonsense?

Her range is medium range at worst

I strongly disagree.

She gets outranged by Viktor, Zed, Velkoz, Morgana, Lux , (Obviously) Xerath.... I want to say Brand, Malzahar and Zyra but they're basically supports now. Point being, Ahri gets outraged by a lot of mids putting her well below average; Aka low range.

Naturally there are a FEW select mids that she somewhat outranges (Annie most prominently) or others that are almost straight up melee (Yasuo) , for the most part, she is shorter ranged than her opponents.

Viktor has higher mana costs, is immobile, and is vulnerable anytime someone jumps on him.

Yeah, and in exchange he has MUCH higher burst, a fairly sturdy shield and an AoE stun.

But on top of that , he has way safer wave-clear than Ahri. So.... what's your argument exactly? Viktor is an extremely solid pick and when he was a little bit stronger, he could delete people with just a Q , auto and Lich Bane, that's FAR more cancerous than Ahri actually having to land skill-shots.

Ahri meta is best meta we've had in a long time.

ShonjlApr 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Very low defenses except she has 10210240201400 movespeed and 3 dashes

High mana cost? lol... They're low as fuck. is 65/50/85 high to you? lmfao.

Vulnerable during ult cd... 3243020 movespeed and charm. And is her ult ever even down? Shit has like a 80 sec cd

Her range is medium range. It's not short by any means

Viktor has higher mana costs, is immobile, and is vulnerable anytime someone jumps on him. And why are you comparing assassins to a mage?

Ahri main detected.

You do realize Ahri is LITERALLY the same as LB right? They are both mage assassins, they don't play as normal mages at all, they are ap assassins is all.

I would compare Ahri or LB to Zed and Talon or Katarina than to something like Xerath or Ziggs or Lux lol. They are way more assassin like than mage like.

Big LincolnApr 14, 20175 votes

Ahri is really boring in lane and out and her ability to change from kiting to going all-in is obnoxious to deal with for a lot of champions I play

But as long as it's not TP mid meta with Annie and other point click nukers I can accept it

all hail ahri

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xwlqf2va,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-04-14T15:03:34.320+0000)

Ahri is really boring in lane and out and her ability to change from kiting to going all-in is obnoxious

I agree it's somewhat boring but at least there are ways to beat her.

The ability to shift from poke to all-in is kind of her thing.... she dances in and out depending on whether or not she can seal-the-deal. This isn't very much different to Zed with his ult or Annie bear flash.

MohawkBirdApr 14, 20171 votes

Exactly. That's the biggest thing I hate about Ahri. The fact that she can go from ulting away to safety then just come back in once a fight favors her is absurdly annoying and strong.

AnhartaminApr 14, 20174 votes

[deleted]

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Ahri is too safe and deals too much damage for how safe she is

I disagree.

She is not safe (Without ult), she has low range on her spells and her damage scaling is on the low-side compared to say, Viktor, Zed or Brand.... or fuck it, compare to Annie or Yasuo. What are you talking about when you say "She deals too much damage"? she deals some of the lowest damage of any mid.

You will get killed in a single rotation by Viktor within seconds even if you're a fighter (Somewhat tanky champs). You will not get killed in a single rotation by Ahri in seconds unless you're Ashe.

Scary DoorApr 14, 20171 votes

Are you kidding?

Ahri's full rotation is among the highest damage outputs in the game. Especially because a portion of her Q is TRUE DAMAGE. In a game of mobility and high damage (which is the direction League has gone for years now) how can you top Ahri? She has both high mobility (both on her Q and in her ult) and high damage.

Sure you can argue "but muh skillshot", which would be valid if it were actually possible ot miss your Q on Ahri, spoiler alert: it isn't possible. Her E is a bit harder to miss, but if we're comparing it to Viktor, well... his damage is much harder to line up---his E is very difficult to land (especially because of the delay on the second half of the damage), his Q is point and click, sure, but it is not the majority of his damage output.

I've played both ends of the matchup between Ahri and Viktor and it is far easier to win lane as Ahri vs a Viktor as opposed to the other way around.

But, nevermind what I have to say about it, let's look at the stats...

Ahri has been consistently above a 52% win rate for 2 seasons and her pickrate is always been among the top 20 champions in League.

Right now she is the overall number one midlaner and has, for the most part, held this position since the start of Season 6 and likely before that (although I'd have to go back and check to be sure).

FrightningApr 14, 20173 votes

Her full rotation isn't actually that high among mids, (and unless the target has high MR, the true dmg is only a modest boost over that same damage being magic). Her base damage and AP scaling on full rotation is less than Annie and that's only including the impact damage of Tibbers, nothing else he does. Part of why Ahri is doing well atm is probably actually due to how well she utilizes Thunderlord's Decree: Her Q hits twice, E once, W up to 3 times, ult, 3 casts 1 hit each. Most of her usual trades involve at least 3 hits without even having to basic attack her lane opponent (which entails a brief moment of standing still within 550 range of them). The movement speed on her Q is frankly really strong (better than Draven's W), and makes her surprisingly good at kiting even without her ult up, let alone with it.

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Scary Door,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xwlqf2va,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-04-14T16:09:55.945+0000)

Are you kidding?

Ahri's full rotation is among the highest damage outputs in the game.

Oh yeah?

Fizz Kassadin Katarina Lux Morgana Orianna Syndra Zed Veigar Velkoz Viktor Chogath Annie Akali all have higher damage rotation, some by a significant amount and some do it a lot quicker than Ahri, a LOT quicker.

All of those can do faster, greater burst than Ahri. In terms of sustained damage Anivia Swain blow her out of the water. Ahri does NOT have "among the highest damage outputs in the game", her rotation is actually pretty low damage and very telegraphed. No, her real strength is her ability to roam safely with ult and reposition during team fights.... with ult.

Alongside this, her Charm is a great utility and her sustain in lane gives her some safety.

Especially because a portion of her Q is TRUE DAMAGE.

Sure but that true damage is only a small portion of her overall rotation.

Sure you can argue "but muh skillshot", which would be valid if it were actually possible ot miss your Q on Ahri

Stopped reading right there.

Rabid haters are the same rabid fanboys. I am neither, so I recognize that those two extremes are pointless to discuss anything with.

Ahri has been consistently above a 52% win rate for 2 seasons and her pickrate is always been among the top 20 champions in League. Right now she is the overall number one midlaner and has, for the most part, held this position since the start of Season 6 and likely before that (although I'd have to go back and check to be sure).

What's your point? my entire argument is that SOMEONE has to be #1 champ and Ahri is a very healthy choice.

Scary DoorApr 14, 20171 votes

Stopped reading right there.

Obviously you didn't, because you kept responding to my other point.

Rabid haters are the same rabid fanboys. I am neither, so I recognize that those two extremes are pointless to discuss anything with.

No one ever admits to being a fanboy, you simply have to read their responses to know whether or not they are. Careful reading through your response tells me that you are a bit too defensive about Ahri.

What's your point? my entire argument is that SOMEONE has to be #1 champ and Ahri is a very healthy choice.

My point is that any champion that remains at the #1 spot in terms of pick rate AND win rate almost continuously for two seasons has a balance issue and needs to be tuned. Find another champion in this game that has been the top win rate AND pick rate in their respective role as long as Ahri has... I'll save you the trouble: You cannot.

She is far too dominant and needs some adjustment. Whether that is removing the move speed on her Q, increasing the cooldown of her ult or just some basic numbers tuning is hard to say, but clearly there is too much power in one place right now.

I'll give you an example... Miss Fortune was, for years (from Season 2 through Season 5) among the highest or THE highest win rate ADC consistently. Her play rate, however, was very low. This means that, even though she had a good win rate, it was mainly by those who only played her with high regularity and most people preferred a different ADC. Ahri, on the other hand, has a very high pick rate, champions that are picked more often should probably have a win rate closer to 50%, because that is the mean (of course). Instead, Ahri defies statistical probability and has a high pick and win rate, which means there is an outside source that otherwise influences the data set and skews it positively... that outside source is that her strength is above average.

Riot will, eventually, nerf her somewhat. Ahri mains will cry, but if we're talking about game health, it's really the best thing to do.

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Scary Door,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xwlqf2va,comment-id=00040000000000010000,timestamp=2017-04-14T18:03:18.813+0000)

Obviously you didn't, because you kept responding to my other point.

You're right, I couldn't resist.

No one ever admits to being a fanboy, you simply have to read their responses to know whether or not they are. Careful reading through your response tells me that you are a bit too defensive about Ahri.

As I am not an Ahri main or even someone that plays mid, I see no reason for anyone to even begin to believe I am a fanboy.

I do like her design, but that has nothing to do with balance.

My point is that any champion that remains at the #1 spot in terms of pick rate AND win rate almost continuously for two seasons has a balance issue and needs to be tuned. Find another champion in this game that has been the top win rate AND pick rate in their respective role as long as Ahri has

LeeSin Prominently featured in every single tournament for the past 4 years. Next question.

She is far too dominant and needs some adjustment.

I strongly disagree.

If we look at , say, release LeBlanc or Kassadin for his multiple year permaban... that's "too dominant". If we take it a step back and say, think of release Thresh, that's still too much. She is indeed the strongest mid right now but that's not the point, she is the healthiest "overpowered" champion we could have.

I'll give you an example... Miss Fortune was, for years (from Season 2 through Season 5) among the highest or THE highest win rate ADC consistently. Her play rate, however, was very low.

I remember her having a very high play rate , but that's going off memory so I will let that comment slide.

Ahri, on the other hand, has a very high pick rate, champions that are picked more often should probably have a win rate closer to 50%

Yes, law of large numbers, what's your point? she's at 52% which is not unreasonable.

I already stated and we both already know she is #1 mid champ in the game. That's not the argument.

Ahri defies statistical probability and has a high pick and win rate

That's not "defying" anything. She is the best choice right now, this is not even debatable.

The real debate is; Would we be better off with , say, another Yasuo or Zed meta (?) Yasuo and Zed are much easier to use, much safer and extremely toxic to the game. Ahri at least has weaknesses, at least has mana limitations, at least has limited scaling.

Riot will, eventually, nerf her somewhat.

Yep. I hope they do the love-tap thing that they do with Lee Sin.

(I.e. -2 base AD or some bullshit)

DanjengApr 14, 20173 votes

When is Ahri not meta? She's been a solid pick always. Some time ago when her base damage was nerfed, and some QoL targeting changes were given in place, Ahri mains complained. Oddly enough her win rate increased even more from there.

In any given meta, Ahri is solid pick. She's in a perpetual state of meta.

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

In any given meta, Ahri is solid pick. She's in a perpetual state of meta.

Ahri was a subpar pick during Syndra, Zed and Leb meta.

Yasuo release also destroyed Ahri for a brief time.

RogueWillApr 15, 20171 votes

Ahri weakness don't really exist. Her only weakness is that she can't not funnel her damage (as her ult and fox just target a close champion). Her low defenses is a myth, like how many tanky mages do you see? maybe 2? The low defenses doesn't really offset the high mobility, and if ult is down (you are supposed to be vulnerable right?) well you are not, she has charm and Q to put distances on anyone that is closing in and on top of her already, so you better have some chain CC to lock her down or she will slither her way away. The poke is no way near low range (at 880) orb of deception her main form of poke is a decent/standard range for a mage. Low range woudl be something like Annie or Ryze. I'll give you the mana cost thou, they are somewhat high but since you have some true damage you can safely go item 3165 as first item without impacting your damage too much.

She was't good on the assassin meta simply because they could pop her before all her bullshit started and even then she was still a safe blind pick (you just wouldn't be able to roam as much as them)

Dominick DestineApr 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Her low defenses is a myth, like how many tanky mages do you see?

We are not comparing Ahri to Swain.

Compare Ahri to, say Viktor or Annie, both are significantly tankier. Their base stats are also higher. It is not a myth to say Ahri has low defensive stats for a mage.

The low defenses doesn't really offset the high mobility

I agree.

That's why her damage is one of the least frontloaded damage of any mage.... Viktor, Annie and Brand can kill you MUCH quicker than Ahri can.

There is no debate about whether Ahri is the best pick, the debate is whether it is healthier for the game, and in my opinion, it absolutely is. I'd rather have Ahri meta than Zed meta.

RogueWillApr 15, 20171 votes

You are comparing to Viktor and Annie? they have higher base stats because they don't have mobility. If you jump on them they are dead or you are dead, someone is dying. If you jump on ahri she can safely run away. She is comparable to Sol, Cassiopeia or Kassadin. And Still Annie and Viktor feel tankier because their kit and not really base stats as ahri has higher HP than pretty much everyone I just mentiones (minus Sol who has 25 extra Hp) ranging between 100 to 50 extra HP that in exchange of 5 armor in average (Viktor has 10 more armor but again less HP). They are not tankier, they just have one defensive ability because they are not loaded with mobility.

Ahri only weakness is that she can't funnel her damage, but hey, is not like they skillshots are missing, she just can't pick the target so the damage still applies.

Oh and on damage, Ahri is actually loaded with damage. If you compare to Annie at level 6 (No AP) she actually does more damage than Annie. As Annie will have at level 6 a 1/3/1/1 (usual level up for max damage) giving her damage of 80/160/0/150 (plus 20 aura for 2 sec and 100 from 2 aa from tibbers that is usually what he does in the enrage form) giving her 510 total damage. Ahri on the other hand will have a 3/1/1/1 and will do 90(+90 for second pass)/20(+24 for the extra orbs)/60/70(+140 for 3 dashes) giving her a total of 514 damage (that's right more than annie) but I'll her you say that Annie does AoE, still Ahri will beat her as she will only lose the charm and 2 orbs of W damage (84), SImilarly annie on multi targtes will lose 80 from her Q and 100 for tibbers aa as he can only aa one person (180). So she has more damage either as single target or as multi target. So tell me again how is she not frontloaded with damage?

Dominick DestineApr 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You are comparing to Viktor and Annie? they have higher base stats because they don't have mobility.

Viktor has MS boost.

That being said, both Viktor and Annie have higher defensive stats and MUCH higher burst. This is the trade-off. Do you understand how balance works?

They are not tankier, they just have one defensive ability

"They're not tankier, they're just tankier" Yeah okay.

2Charmnot2CharmApr 15, 20172 votes

It wasn't just base damage nerfs, it was a lost of the damage amp on charm (20%) along with dfg.

Although i think they didnt touch her damage till a few patches after they gave her the movespeed on q so they nerfed her w damage and the targeting range of both W and her R.

undesirable teamApr 14, 20172 votes

or she can one shot champs you cant do shit against when she one shots u her point and click shit does 500k dmgg u ok dude

KONO RUBICK DAApr 14, 20172 votes

Ahri before was never the strongest mage since her last nerfs, she returned now to top1 and is played in lcs after all the mages that got nerfed (cass vik syndra and other champs)

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Negan fanboy124,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xwlqf2va,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-04-14T16:05:01.315+0000)

Ahri before was never the strongest mage since her last nerfs, she returned now to top1 and is played in lcs after all the mages that got nerfed (cass vik syndra and other champs)

Sure. I am not saying she's not top dog right now.

I'm saying it's healthier for the game than others.

LauchmelderApr 14, 20172 votes

Ahri is as bad as an assassin meta.

Hell, even tank meta is better than this bullshit.

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xwlqf2va,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-04-14T17:10:25.520+0000)

Ahri is as bad as an assassin meta.

Back during assassin meta, assassins could kill you without ever presenting a target.

Ahri cannot do this.

Hell, even tank meta is better than this bullshit.

Tank meta was awesome, wtf are you talking about

LauchmelderApr 14, 20172 votes

Yes, tank meta was awesome. I said that to at least try and represent a bigger amount of people, because a lot of the players on the boards absolutely despise tank meta. To me it was the most strategic time I ever had in this game.

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xwlqf2va,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2017-04-14T17:23:59.372+0000)

Yes, tank meta was awesome. I said that to at least try and represent a bigger amount of people, because a lot of the players on the boards absolutely despise tank meta. To me it was the most strategic time I ever had in this game.

Understood.

PennsApr 14, 20171 votes

Most of those are melee and Viktor is always vulnerable, not just during his ult cooldown, so...

Asayake 5150glowApr 14, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Most of those are melee and Viktor is always vulnerable, not just during his ult cooldown, so...

Well Viktor oneshots a lot better than Ahri :/

PennsApr 14, 20171 votes

That wasnt his point, the ones he listed have low defenses, are vulnerable and have even less to no ranged poke lol.

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

That wasnt his point, the ones he listed have low defenses

Lower base defenses than Ahri?

Wrong. Ahri has lower defensive base stats than the characters I mentioned.

PennsApr 14, 20171 votes

Yes because she is ranged and doesnt have to get in melee range to do something..

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Yes because she is ranged and doesnt have to get in melee range to do something..

Not all the characters I mentioned were melee, but sure.

Difference being, the melee characters you are defending have huge mobility and (tend to be) manaless.

Asayake 5150glowApr 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

That wasnt his point, the ones he listed have low defenses, are vulnerable and have even less to no ranged poke lol.

Zed has plenty of ranged poke, Talon is all about ranged poke into all in. Yasuo's got a Wind Wall for defense, Talon's got his R which is basically a 'I oneshot you first' button, and Zed can juke with his ult.

That being said, I would rather face an Ahri because I have been nearly oneshot by a Stormraiders Surge 1/4 Talon with decent CS, while I was doing pretty well, by his R+meleeQ+auto (and maybe ignite). Sure Ahri's got a lot of point and click damage but nothing beats getting killed by a Zed's R+auto+E+auto+R2 when you're at half health (also Ahri skillshots are a lot easier to dodge than Zed shurikens), but I would rather face a Yasuo than an Ahri.

WitchQueen AnnieApr 14, 20171 votes

Ahri meta?

What you talking about?

I play Viktor and Vladimir and defeat her in lane and in team fights all the time.

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlad Maine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xwlqf2va,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-04-14T15:19:04.210+0000)

Ahri meta?

What you talking about?

Well, she currently has the highest win rate of any mid and has a very high pick/ban rate.

That's what I mean by "Ahri meta".

I play and and defeat her in lane and in team fights all the time.

I find Viktor a lot more dangerous than Ahri because of his insane burst potential.

I don't really find Vlad that much of an issue until late game when he becomes a huge drain tank.

ShonjlApr 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xwlqf2va,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-04-14T15:26:23.227+0000)

Well, she currently has the highest win rate of any mid and has a very high pick/ban rate.

That's what I mean by "Ahri meta".

I find Viktor a lot more dangerous than Ahri because of his insane burst potential.

I don't really find Vlad that much of an issue until late game when he becomes a huge drain tank.

Early game Vlad is scary if your opponent doesn't constantly poke him, you can only take like 2 of those crit Qs before you are in kill range, and he is healthy. Depending on your setup, they can hit close to 200-250 really early, and when everyone has like 550ish hp and a few pots, that is pretty scary.

But this is considering you let him crit Q you, people that aren't dumb won't let him run at you to do it, so he will just hit a minion with it which still gives him a massive chunk of health.

Dominick DestineApr 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Early game Vlad is scary if your opponent doesn't constantly poke him, you can only take like 2 of those crit Qs before you are in kill range, and he is healthy. Depending on your setup, they can hit close to 200-250 really early, and when everyone has like 550ish hp and a few pots, that is pretty scary.

Ok sure, he has some good early match-ups but, and I don't play much top, I have never really had trouble ganking Vlad. I have also not seen him snowball like say, Darius or Illaoi.

ShonjlApr 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xwlqf2va,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-14T17:10:07.463+0000)

Ok sure, he has some good early match-ups but, and I don't play much top, I have never really had trouble ganking Vlad. I have also not seen him snowball like say, Darius or Illaoi.

He can snowball, just not after a single kill like say a Riven, but god forbid he has way more farm than you and a few kills, he will kill you in 1 Q E, I've had that bs done to me and also done it to others. Even a fed Darius is a Darius at the end of the day, if he can't flash on top of you he is just a pincushion. Illaoi I will agree with since at least she has a slow and a target dash to help her get to you.

Dominick DestineApr 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

He can snowball, just not after a single kill like say a Riven

Darius also snowballs much harder.

Vlad is good, but he needs a lot of items to become a major threat.

ShonjlApr 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xwlqf2va,comment-id=000600000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-15T21:12:04.150+0000)

Darius also snowballs much harder.

Vlad is good, but he needs a lot of items to become a major threat.

No doubt about that, christ Darius doesn't even need items, he can kill you at lvl2 just easily with nothing at all.

WitchQueen AnnieApr 14, 20171 votes

Viktor vs Ahri is so chill.

Ahri's Orb is SLOPPY AS HELL. It does no damage if only parts of it hits you (and you can also predict how she'll throw it because she's always aiming for the return point of the orb unless she wants to deal no damage). Her E is completely useless so long as you stand behind minions.

Meanwhile, your Laser can hit her with relative ease (from long range and you can fire it from behind her minion line). Your Q can't be dodged.

She approaches Viktor, she gets out-traded to hell so long as you dodge E and don't get hit by both parts of Q.

When she gets her Ult, I couldn't care less. I just poke her down with said weapons (keeping my distance). And if she tries to all in I just kite around with my abilities, and use Gravity Field and Chaos Storm in 2 places to zone/confuse her. Most of the time she's forced to bail.

Later on in team fights, its so much easier for you to deal AOE damage than her.