I am not asking about Dynamic Queue because that is an entirely different topic, I am asking why Solo Queue was completely removed from the game. Couldn't you just have both ? what was the idea in removing one of the most attractive (arguably THE most attractive) game mode ?
This is not an insult. This is not a troll. This is a serious question.
What was the point? why remove Solo Queue entirely?
jinxedchef61 votesThe thing is to force people to play in groups, thinking that in a made group people troll and insult each other less. Now they just troll and insult the poor people not in their group. And ranked is a complete joke.
iainB8515 votesPretty much, they already gave their reasoning. "League is best played with friends" is pretty much their repeated response.
What I get from that is my play style, which is hopping on and playing whenever I want versus organizing a team, is the wrong way to play the game and I can go fuck myself.
Gee, I wonder why so many people are quitting again?
ModKnightsKemplar7 votesBut I take issue with that, a little... you can still do that. You don't have to group up.
I know I might get downvoted to oblivion, and I'm not arguing that all group premades are fine, but I have had a great experience playing solo and duo lately. I rarely queue with a third person; Riot's dream for me making a clan and having a bunch of similarly skilled friends around didn't pan out. I don't have that.
But, my solo experience is fine. I don't run into toxic premades. I am behave exactly as I did before DQ, and the players I queue with behave pretty much the same, too, if not a little better since the punish hammer has been coming down lately. I see improvements to the system where others don't, and I don't know if I'm just one of the lucky few, or perhaps there is something about my approach that changes my experience.
Either way, this has been a huge success in my eyes. You can still play your way and other people can still group up. It's no problem. I think Riot's plan worked out great, and it isn't because I've benefitted in any way from it. I play the same way I used to, except now I get assigned a role, and that's been great. I don't see what all the fuss is about.
iainB8511 votesYou are simply lucky then. Just last weekend I had a pre-made 4 surrender vote a winning game just to be 'funny' or whatever.
I also got 4 man reported because I didn't want to switch roles when one 4-man premade didn't get what he wanted.
I also had several games where nobody communicated in chat at all because they were all on voice together.
All of these games would never have happened in solo/duo queue system. Is it every game? Certainly not, but now I have all the above types of games in addition to other types of games that can go south fast. It only compounded the problem for solo queue players.
ModKnightsKemplar2 votesThe flaw in your argument is that all of those things are additive. They really aren't. Trolls are trolls, and the number hasn't changed. Some of them are in premades now, but those game replace some of the soloQ troll games.
People have always complained about trolls and afks, they are just sometimes in premades now. Don't misattribute the problem. Nice people in premades are not a problem.
TL;DR - I think those games WOULD still happen in soloQ, and it remains true that the main difference between having an overall good time and an overall bad time is your own attitude. NOT the kind of queue.
iainB855 votesBut in solo/duo queue people couldn't gang up on a solo player nearly as easily.
Also, my last point about people not communicating aren't trolls at all. They are just 4 friends playing together and talking on voice chat. Doesn't make it any less true that it makes the game significantly less fun for that solo queue player, even if their intent was not malicious at all.
Frostmane2 votesAMEN!
Grithok2 votesI don't think you're as lucky as the other commenter in this thread might have you believe. I have similar experiences to you, and I am sure it is elo/rank gated. My mmr is low gold/high silver, and I am silver 1, and I experience none of these things that other people are complaining about. I've been playing for years now, and while I've been trolled before, it's only maybe once or twice been purely random trolling. More often, people being rude to each other drove someone to troll the game. I'm never played in higher or lower elo games. I was placed in silver 3 in season 3, and I've hovered around from silver 5 to gold 1 for my entire league career. So maybe trolling is more common in Bronze, or maybe it's more common in plat+, but either way in my fairly average slice of the player base, my gameplay sample size in ranked is large enough for me to say, with certainty, that toxicity has in no way increased from last season to this one, or form 4 to 5, or from 3 to 4.
You're right. Dynamic q IS a success. The only failure in my eyes is the slowly increasing queue times, but that's a minor issue, really, compared to the real or imagined problems other people in this thread seem to have.
ModKnightsKemplar2 votesYeah, I still think that people experience toxicity when they are toxic. That's the main thing. If you are nice to people and play your best, it's no problem.
Yeah, it's kind of annoying when people are on skype with each other and won't include you, but that's par for the course whether they are premade or not. Some people don't communicate. That's just the game.
If you don't like multiplayer games, then don't play them... It's not anything that can possibly be considered Riot's fault.
DREADN0UGHT1 votesPretty much, they already gave their reasoning. "League is best played with friends" is pretty much their repeated response.
What if I have no friends D:
iainB851 votesThen either gtfo or bow to your Tencent overlords are like it.
[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
Tensyuo2 votesI completely agree with you, Ranked is literally just a joke now..
ZeeWolfZ32 votesDQ was and IS a failure from the start.
They forcefully removed Solo Queue because it is far more favorable by the community. If DQ and SQ existed together, barely anybody would touch DQ (Dominion deletion was also a forceful move to bring players into DQ).
DQ is a great way to maximize profit and target the 91% of Bronze/Silver/Gold player base while top 9% suffers.
DQ is pure business. Riot's current priority is Profit and a younger generation. Their aim is to expand DQ, which leads to more players playing together, and bringing friends to group together. Which means those players will try to spend around $300 for Hexteck Annie and $100+ For Mastery 6/7 (can be more or less depending on pure luck).
This is what Riot have become.
Personally, I see at least 15 posts about DQ daily vs 2-3 initially.
BloodyTompon2 votesYeah, it would have been so the queues weren't split. I'm not convinced that Dominion was removed for that reason also. The Dominion community was a little too small for me to think that.
I always find Riots business model like the chicken and the egg. It's impossible to tell what one comes first. I agree with your analysis though. Friend groups will stay around for longer than solo people in general and that leads to increased profits.
DQ is a great way to maximize profit and target the 91% of Bronze/Silver/Gold player base while top 9% suffers.
I might be misunderstanding you a bit, but DQ should result in a much higher level of play at the very top. Only teams will become viable, because co-ordinated play trumps 5 randoms. That should mean that the top level is higher than it was in SoloQ.
ZeeWolfZ4 votesPicture this:
You, as a solo queue player, spent a fair amount of time polishing and mastering your Diamond Rank. Shortly after, Dynamic Queue is introduced which compares your personal hard-earned rank to Premades' of 3/4s. You feel crushed.
However, you want to continue proving that you are better than other players and continue in Solo Queue.
Also, I understand your trail of thought, but top 9% are a handful of players. They generally don't play together and are extremely competitive. This is where Ego comes into play, trying to be the best On Your Own, rather than carried through an easy Rank System.
In fact, I check % of players very often and comparing to Season 5, Bronze Increased from 19% to 33%, Silver Dropped from 47% to 38%+, and Gold is about the same under 20% (currently 19%). The Plat++ actually dropped from 13+% to 9.4%.
This system introduced more "casual" players into the game. Just what DQ wanted.
BluePolarizer4 votesI can't support anymore. I used to have an extremely polished bot lane game but since now there's premades, ADCs have lost the ability to communicate effectively with a non-voice support.
Also, as a jungle main, if I put support anywhere, I'm 100% support all the time.
So now I moved to top secondary. Would rather take my chances in a solo lane rather than being support literally every game or playing with an ADC who needs me to tell him how to tie his shoes.
Dominick Destine2 votesI can't support anymore. I used to have an extremely polished bot lane game but since now there's premades, ADCs have lost the ability to communicate effectively with a non-voice support.
Also, as a jungle main, if I put support anywhere, I'm 100% support all the time.
The exact same thing happened to me.
For S1 to S5 I played jungle main but wouldn't mind supporting if someone had first pick jungle and I was last pick. I was essentially primary jungle, secondary support.... but if I queue jungle/support, it's basically just picking support 90% of the time. The role system is completely broken and I was forced to become a mid secondary just to have a fair chance to get the role I wanted in the first place.
Solo queue was much better when it came to that issue.
BloodyTompon1 votesRight. I don't want to be putting words into your mouth, but would it be fair to say that you have two main qualms then. The matchmaking is shit (queue times inc.) and that you dislike the shift away from individual performance? And that you perceive the top to be suffering because of these?
zSkeletoRz4 votesDQ was and IS a failure from the start.
They forcefully removed Solo Queue because it is far more favorable by the community. If DQ and SQ existed together, barely anybody would touch DQ (Dominion deletion was also a forceful move to bring players into DQ).
DQ is a great way to maximize profit and target the 91% of Bronze/Silver/Gold player base while top 9% suffers.
DQ is pure business. Riot's current priority is Profit and a younger generation. Their aim is to expand DQ, which leads to more players playing together, and bringing friends to group together. Which means those players will try to spend around $300 for Hexteck Annie and $100+ For Mastery 6/7 (can be more or less depending on pure luck).
This is what Riot have become.
Personally, I see at least 15 posts about DQ daily vs 2-3 initially.
Exactly this. Riot is paying attention to what we say, they're simply using it to their advantage.
The thing is, it isn't Riot that I believe is the problem. Tencent is where I believe the problem lies.
They want their $64 million back. The money they spent to buy out the last of those shares.
LegendmakerGX22 votesRiot 1:Hey some one is asking about Solo Q again how should we reply?
Riot 2: Don't reply at all like we always do now when we see some one ask question about solo Q, just wait until the post slowly disappear to go away. they will forget about Solo Q in ahhhh another 5 month?
Riot 1: You're right let's stay silent about this issue since people on the board/reddit are the MINORITY of the player base. Question who's our Majority of player base?
Riot 2: I don't know probably make up a fake statistic again to tell them that more people love dynamic duo.
Riot 1:Hey do you ever think we might be wrong that Dynamic was a good system to implement?
Riot 2: Na we are always right and they are just btching like they did about the start of the season 6 state of balance but look at the game RIGHT NOW its totally BALANCE AFTER 5 MONTHsssss.
eastcoastblaze12 votesYou forgot to add in the part about them telling the reddit mods to remove all dynamic queue/ solo queue related threads.
The reddit mods are bought and paid for by riot
Supreme Senpai691 votesWait did they really do that? Or did i miss the sarcasm lol
Spoofghoul2 votesyea its pretty much censored
eastcoastblaze1 votesYeah the censorship is out of control
Kan1x11 votesSimple answer!
They wanted to copy DOTA and HoTS at the same time, while burying your favorite champions in a meta where first blood wins the game
HoTS: queue with your friends and you will win
DOTA: first blood is good game
Rainbow Smarf6 votesthe process behind this is marketing, trying to make peoples buy more esthetic content to show off to theirs friends while playing with theirs friends. so by removing peoples who play alone by themselves they think they will generate more money this way.
its all about the money.
UrPalAl5 votesI think DQ is a great concept, but I just don't think that Riot has the resources ready for it. It works great in games like CS:GO, but that's because communication is more direct even between nom premades. If Riot wants to continue using DQ, they also need to introduce some sort of improved communication system, whether it's voice chat it an improved ping system.
As to why Solo Queue and DQ can't exist? Simple, because all solo players would play in Solo Queue, and the DQ matchtimes would rise exponentially.
So what do I think? Well I think DQ could work with some adjustments, first off, remove 4 man queue's, after that just introduce a better communication system and I think you have a solid ranked system.
Asyde5 votesPretty sick of these posts.
Dynamic Que, Solo Que, or any que isnt the problem. The problem is the community.
I guarantee you that if in every game you entered (regardless of pre-made size) people were friendly, cooperative, and communicated with each other you we wouldn't see half of these "BURN DYNAMIC QUE, BRING BACK SOLO QUE" posts. But no, the community gets so butthurt over games not going their way and people not playing how they want them to that they rage and point fingers. (this includes the solo players and the premade groups)
I see it every... damn... game. 5 minutes in, "GG fuck this game" 10 minutes in: Jungle you're trash, you don't gank 15 minutes in: OMG Report this top, didn't pick a tank. 20 minutes in: "(insert champion) is fucking broken, GG RIOT THANKS"
1 hour later, posts on forums, "BRING BACK SOLO QUE", "I hate playing with pre-mades 90% of the time". What you're really saying is "people suck, people are mean and toxic. Don't force me to play with them". Even in SoloQue you had to play with the same people, just less "mob mentality". Again, the problem is the people, not the system.
Honestly, If people would just suck it up and be decent human beings for once this game (and que) would be great. RIOT created their que with faith in the community that they could handle this. Obviously you/they can't.
Dominick Destine9 votesThe problem is the community.
Nonsense.
The community is never the problem. The problem is the method by which the game is played (I.e. removal of solo queue). It's like serving mashed potatoes to a group of people for 5 years and then removing the mashed potatoes and giving them stuffed peppers instead.
Some people might like stuffed peppers but a lot of them are going to be pissed off that their mashed potatoes were taken away. Your argument is "THE PROBLEM IS THE PEOPLE EATING THE FOOD, THEY ARE TO BLAME". No, they are not the problem. You are a complete piece of [Word].
If the original food (Mashed potatoes) were still available, it wouldn't be a problem.
Asyde3 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w2EkEm5Q,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2016-05-17T18:06:22.996+0000)
Nonsense.
The community is never the problem. The problem is the method by which the game is played (I.e. removal of solo queue). It's like serving mashed potatoes to a group of people for 5 years and then removing the mashed potatoes and giving them stuffed peppers instead.
Some people might like stuffed peppers but a lot of them are going to be pissed off that their mashed potatoes were taken away. Your argument is "THE PROBLEM IS THE PEOPLE EATING THE FOOD, THEY ARE TO BLAME". No, they are not the problem. You are a complete piece of [Word].
If the original food (Mashed potatoes) were still available, it wouldn't be a problem.
These don't equate. Using your analogy, this is more like a team eating competition.
If the team eating competition is Mashed potatoes, and people are super competitive and immature, then eventually they all fight over the food, get angry and throw mashed potatoes at each other. Instead of blaming their own immature actions they blame the people that hosted the tournament for not making "better mashed potatoes" (of course the mashed potatoes was the problem). People eventually leave stop coming to the tournament because they can't stand being in that environment.
So the hosts changed the food next time to stuffed peppers in hopes to attract a more civilized, less messy, tournament. Yes, stuffed peppers for some for some might not taste as good. The competition starts and people again get angry at each other for stealing their peppers, not helping them eat theirs, and throw the food at each other; Creating chaos, being very disrespectful to others and blaming the hosts again. This time blaming them for "giving us shit food instead of "the amazing" mashed potatoes we had before".
When really the whole time, the problem is them and they inability to be civil with one another and play the damn game. They should be grateful for the hosts to keep inviting them back in the first place.
Again, if everyone sat at their seat, was respectful to one other, and helped their teammates succeed, then we'd have a pretty good game afterall.
Dominick Destine8 votes(Community is) immature (Riot) changed the food next time to stuffed peppers in hopes to attract a more civilized, less messy (community) When really the whole time, the problem is them (The players)
Do I need to say it again?
Basically your argument is; You don't like stuffed peppers? Well then YOU are the problem!!!
Which is a completely shit argument. You cannot force people to like what you like, you cannot shove what they dislike down their throat and then blame them when they complain. Just give us the mashed potatoes that we've always had and leave the option open for people that want stuffed peppers. Naturally people will gravitate towards what they enjoy most.
Asyde3 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w2EkEm5Q,comment-id=0011000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-17T18:37:04.752+0000)
Once again, you are shifting the blame from the cause to the affected.
The problem is a poor environment in game. You think it is created by putting premades together with solo's int he first place. I'm arguing that it is the attitudes and actions of the players that turn that into a negative experience. The cause and the affected can be the same thing.
Which would be irrelevant.
How is it irrelevant? You literally used this as your analogy for switching from Solo to Dynamic, and So did I
Once again blaming the community for the crimes of others.
Certainly not everyone in the community is at fault, there are plenty of good respectful people. But those that are toxic (premades or solo's alike) create an otherwise positive experience into a negative one.
Basically your argument is; *You don't like stuffed peppers? Well then YOU are the problem!!!
Which is a completely shit argument. You cannot force people to like what you like, you cannot shove what they dislike down their throat and then blame them when they complain. Just give us the mashed potatoes again like we were promised from the beginning.
You misunderstood. In the analogy the fight didn't start because they didn't like the stuffed peppers, they even were fighting over the mashed potatoes they had before. No, They fought because they like to fight, and they were disrespectful towards others. You think they were disrespectful towards others because the food was bad, but I'd argue they would be disrespectful REGARDLESS what food was presented to them.
RIOT built a good system, but it requires that people be civil, friendly and work hard towards a common goal. The system fails when people stop doing this and treat each other poorly.
So yes, maybe for this community, Dynamic Que isn't the answer. But if people are genuine, I don't see why Dynamic que isn't a great idea.
ChrisThePleb4 votesIs this guy getting paid by Riot? He has such a boner for Riot its incredible. His arguments are complete horse crap.
Keevalroy2 votesIt's just typical white knight protocol - mindless shilling for the hope of getting brownie points with whatever target they blindly and senselessly defend. You can't talk logic into brown nosers; they're too far "up there" to hear you.
franticFurball5 votesWhat was the point?
3 guys from school to their friend: "Dude you should totally play League with our super cool team it will own so hard!"
4th guy: "wow you guys have such l33t (low silver) skills and much cool skin...how i get cool skin?"
4th guy: Buys moar RP.
Arabed4 votesIt's all about money. Anything a company ever does has to benefit them in some way. Removing an essential part of the game so "people play with friends" is not a valid reason.
Tufio4 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w2EkEm5Q,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-17T00:38:50.238+0000)
I am not asking about Dynamic Queue because that is an entirely different topic, I am asking why Solo Queue was completely removed from the game. Couldn't you just have both ? what was the idea in removing one of the most attractive (arguably THE most attractive) game mode ?
This is not an insult. This is not a troll. This is a serious question.
What was the point? why remove Solo Queue entirely?
The "new" direction of league of legend is casualization and group play.
Casualization mean more new players, group play mean more $$$. (someone in a premade is more likely to $$$ for skin/champs/stuff than a solo player)
that's all, dynamic is broken as a competitive mode and it can't be fixed, they don't care since the point is to make premades happy.
We will see if this is truly working for them. (does the more $$$ for premades offset the loss from solo players quitting?) The userbase is also more or less?
OH MAN NOT GOOD4 votes[deleted]
Spoofghoul1 votesyea if you are a sheople then peer pressure has effect on you
Snowplosion2 votesI think it was based off of Lyte's survey where the majority of players would play with their friends in ranked if given a chance.
Imperatricis8 votesevery time this "survey of the majority" is brought up I see people asking "and where the fuck is this survey that you speak of? Why have I not seen it?", which then brings up the question is it really a survey of the majority and how skewed are their data collection and analysis methods
devdev4633 votesYeah man, I look at forums and log onto league often, and I have never heard of this survey proving they were right. I read some people talking about how the questions were presented in a certain way to make the dynamic queue option seem better, but I don't actually know anything about the questions posed by the survey. You would think when they make a survey they would put it in the client in some way that is obvious that the majority of people are going to see, like on the front page or right before you launch it.
Snowplosion1 votesYou probably never have heard of it because it got about 2k down-votes and it is nearly impossible to find. I remember taking a survey from Riot with that question on it long before the end of season five. I don't not know where to find the survey or who took the survey, but if you can find a post by Riot Lyte (I think it was him) you might be able to find it.
Supreme Senpai691 votesThe survey was legit. It's just, they made it sound like they were asking about the new champ select. Well yeah, the new champ select is AWESOME. It's solo queue that we want back though. However, now their survey makes it seem like the majority wanted dynamic queue because they mistook it for the new champ select.
eastcoastblaze1 votesExactly. If they wanted to make it a survey of the majority it wouldve been on the client
B1naryB0t2 votesThe idea is mostly based on the idea that playing with friends is more likely to keep people involved with the game for obvious reasons. Riot sees this and tries to make it so people can play with their friends more often. This is where group rewards come in, dynamic Q, clans, etc. That's the theory behind a lot of game design.
But the problem is that not every game should be played multiplayer. Some games value individual skill and so it creates anger when people can get carried by their friends every game or those friends can troll and ruin games at full force.
HexaDecimel1 votesRiot set out with the goal of making League a more team based game. They wanted to make it easier for people to play in groups with their friends. They also wanted to cut down on the time players were required to wait in order to get into a match. And what they came up with to address those points and grow it into more of a team focused game was Dynamic Que.
The reason that Solo Que was removed is that it conflicted with all of those points that were listed. Solo Que limited the people you could play with. And if it was split into both Dynamic and Solo it would split the player base as well and increase overall wait times. At its very core Dynamic needs Solo players in order to keep it running smoothly and to keep wait times down.
And that is why both can't exist at the same time.
Dominick Destine4 votesAt its very core Dynamic needs Solo players in order to keep it running smoothly
And it is those very solo players that Dynamic Queue gave the shaft to.
Solo queue was the best for solo players. Therefore, what is the purpose in removing it? to screw them over? because that is what you are telling me.
HexaDecimel2 votesDude I am just answering your question. Riot felt that Dynamic Que was an improvement but it can't work as long as there is Solo Que. That is why they took it down.
I think that if a majority of players are actually against Dynamic Que then they should stop using it. People always complain about change, but if this one is truly a bad thing to a majority of the player base then it is in the players best interest to show Riot by refusing to play it.
Simply complaining on the forms probably isn't going to do much. And Riot will just look at the numbers and see that mostly everyone is still playing and using Dynamic Que even if they don't all like it. If you really want to prove that a majority of players think this new direction is the wrong one then the people need to stop using it and prove to Riot that something needs to change.