Boards›Player Behavior

Rioters are people too; Why Riot employees don't interact with us here as much as we'd like

Dominick Destine··307 votes·17,878 views

A long time ago, the "Boards" were known as "The Forums" and had a very different community dynamic than we have now.

On these forums, I talked to a Rioter named "Riot Jozreal", because of this I got to know him somewhat and played a few matches with him... one of the things that I learned was that Rioter's actually agree with the community on a lot of things but they have no power to change anything and CANNOT publicly agree with many things because, as Riot employees, anything they say can and will be used against them and against Riot. Every single one of their responses will be scrutinized to a spectacular degree.... search your feelings, you know this to be true.

Above all else; Even if they were to publicly agree to many of the concerns that the community has, nothing they say or do will ever satisfy the community because, AND I INCLUDE MYSELF IN THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT; The community are a bunch of ungrateful jerks that will bite the hand that feeds them 9 times out of 10... and the 10th time they will do it too it will just take longer.

So don't blame Rioters for not hanging out with us more often, I guarantee you they wish they could but unfortunately, reality is not as we wish it to be. Anyway I would like to formally thank Rioters for their efforts, you guys are great and I know you try your hardest, gg.

161 Comments

RiotRiot Calad44 votes

It definitely feels harder to interact now compared to when Riot and the community were both a lot smaller. There's a lot of people at Riot, working on cool things of various shapes and sizes. One of the downsides to that is that it's less likely that one of us knows exactly what's going on somewhere else across the company, and often we don't feel comfortable answering questions and potentially saying something inaccurate or outdated. I think that's one of the things that makes talking here difficult - not that we don't have the power to speak out, but that we don't want to speak for teams or projects we're not working on.

That's just an excuse at it's core, though, and not a particularly great one either. Of course we could reach out to those teams when we see something relevant here, and I think we should do so more frequently - chase down the people who can respond to a hot topic.

As for the community being a bunch of ungrateful jerks, I think you're a bit hard on yourself ;) We're incredibly lucky to have players as passionate as you are, and I think Rioters understand that people complaining are people who care. We also have pretty thick skin.

Thanks for posting this, Dominick. At the very least, it convinced one Rioter (me!) that they really should hang around here more.

MasterSomething39 votes

About time someone gives credit where it's due.

Sarutobi23 votes

You do have to remember too, a lot of the people on here are possibly kids, so they dont really understand some of the stuff. But to be fair in that case its the parents fault for not monitoring their child's internet access!

All in all im glad they arent here as often. their main priority should be the game especially for people like Lyte. Granted there are some cases which should be getting a rioters attentions. But a lot of the content here, especially from people who want to know why they are ban despite having loads of evidence against them should just be left to rot.

ZGM Dazzling15 votes

More like adults acting like kids.

finalchance14 votes

Im 12 and I crack some shit jokes in game...but I understand everything else but comedy, and I used to be toxic then I was like "WOAH WOAH WOAH WAIT, WHY TILT THEM WITH INSULTS WHEN YOU CAN TILT THEM WITH BAD JOKES" <<<< See? like that bad joke right there? or this one?

PrisonNightmare13 votes

Stop, Just stop.

Curonue2 votes

no u

Very Epic Guy20 votes

It probably also doesn't help that most threads are overtly hostile.

"Fucking Stupid Rito omg," "Riot wtf is wrong with u," etc

Vistha Kai5 votes

Threads that are downvoted by community and otherwise rarely responded to.

1Maza17 votes

I think they should just make a PR position for each department (S&A, Balance, etc.) and make it their JOB to sit here and on Reddit 8 hours a day and, well, be PR. They'd be giving a few lucky people a job, and we get people we can actually refer to when we have questions or grievances. Instead of "Hey Riot" as if they're all the same (as the Rioters have said multiple times, they work in different departments and thus can't answer questions about things outside their department of knowledge) we can say "Hey insert PR Rioter of specific department" and actually expect an answer, assuming it's a legitimate, well-thought-out post.

Also honestly, people act like the boards are a LOT worse than they are. Sure you can't swing a cat without hitting a QQ thread and that's annoying, but most discussions I see with Rioters are fairly civil. Rioter makes a point, 3 or 4 people give counterarguments, Rioter explains why they're wrong and that's usually the end of it. There doesn't have to be "blood", most of us just want to know somebody's listening.

Zenanii5 votes

They can't appoint a PR person for each department, because for said PR person to have any idea what they're talking about they would have to actually be involved in their respective department, in which case they wouldn't be able to sit on the forums 8h a day. Which is why it's much better to have dedicated forum moderators who can scan the forums 24/7 and then forward any relevant feedback to the proper people (I believe this is pretty much what we have now).

LatetotheRace6 votes

Well his concept is good, but the numbers were off. I think a sort of representative would be a better idea. Someone who is part of the balancing team, not necessarily doing the work, but being invested enough to know what's going on. This person would have the responsibility to work on the boards and possibly a couple of other sites like reddit.

Jasiwel5 votes

This idea sounds nice, but it actualy doesn't solve any major problems.

A "PR person" still has to be told what to say and know what's on each department's mind - as a result, their responses may not have the details we want (might be misleading even), the PR people will have few ways to elaborate because they are only a voice, and their own responses may become mechanical recitations.

Take Deej from Bungie for example - he is basically the one that tells the community what is going on each update. As a result, HE IS SCORNED AND BLASTED BY THE COMMUNITY FOR CHANGES THEY DON'T LIKE. So therefore, people just argue with him whenever he makes a post or talks rather than take in the information he has to say. It is literally nothing different than our current situation.

I mean sure, if said PR people don't mind being blamed every hour of every day for the game's problems, then it could work to some degree. The fact of the matter is though, and we saw this with Morello/Ghostcrawler on the old GD, the community is a scathing concoction of asininity and rage that is difficult to communicate with no matter how right an opinion can be. The people that are blamed and hated now will only shift to other people, so nothing is actually solved.

1Maza1 votes

{quoted}

I mean sure, if said PR people don't mind being blamed every hour of every day for the game's problems, then it could work to some degree. The fact of the matter is though, and we saw this with Morello/Ghostcrawler on the old GD, the community is a scathing concoction of asininity and rage that is difficult to communicate with no matter how right an opinion can be. The people that are blamed and hated now will only shift to other people, so nothing is actually solved.

And I repeat, it's not nearly as bad as you're making it sound. For every stupid flaming post, there are a dozen decent, well made posts that just want responses. Did you even read what I said? I've seen TONS more decent discussions with reds than flaming. And if someone's stupid enough to blame a PR guy instead of the department he represents, the PR guy has no obligation to respond to bullshit. "What we have now" is practically nothing. I'm of the opinion that ANYTHING is better than nothing.

Jasiwel2 votes

I read everything you said. Don't mistake that because I disagreed with you.

My entire point is that you're not looking at it realistically. Yes, there are plenty of great discussions on the Boards that go unattended and there are shit posts on the Boards that claim Riot can't do their jobs, but those aren't the problems.

The problems with assigning PR bros to every department is that the PR bros would never be able to answer as quickly as the flow of these Boards demands. They have to be told by the Department "head" or Lead Designer on what to tell everyone else...which in that case truly means nothing because the Rioters would have to put time into answering the same questions anyways. It would literally be a "he-said-she-said" or copy-and-paste situation rather than an actual member of each department speaking about it...which they already do.

These "PR people" would already have to be active members of their respective Departments...which again achieves the same goals as what we have currently. Sure, you could stick a person in each Department team (there are a LOT of teams in one department) to write down all of the info that Riot is planning, but said info would have to be approved and furthermore the PR person may not actually comprehend what they are relaying. PR people are better for relaying established rules, statements, and facts than debating with players about changes to the game.

We would end up with that issue of "No Rioters ever come here to talk" or "We need more transparency Riot", not mentioning the whole "PR people are just deflecting us" dilemma you have in other forums. Riot's Boards/Reddit are cool in that their employees actually communicate a shit ton. I used to be a part of the Bungie Forums back when Halo 3 was the top dog of multiplayer and, comparatively, League developers talk with us SO MUCH MORE.

Yes, the times have changed and transparency has become more important, but you are undermining how valuable it is for authentic members of Riot's many teams to communicate with us directly. Riot WANTS to do that and assigning PR people is literally the opposite.

Karma Deified2 votes

Isn't that what Katey and the people who answer Player Behaviour do already?

Solaxo12 votes

BS. If a Rioter uses logical reasoning and valid points people are satisfied. I've seen many topics like that

Dominick Destine18 votes

{quoted}

BS. If a Rioter uses logical reasoning and valid points people are satisfied. I've seen many topics like that

Only if blood is had.

And by blood I mean making some jackass that is badmouthing Riot look stupid. We relish that kind of thing because we love to see people get destroyed. But if a Rioter is , let's say, explaining why a character is being nerfed... or why they took down Dominion... or why they nerfed Frost Queen's Claim.... or why (etc etc), the explanation will not be satisfactory.

Supreme Senpai6911 votes

They don't come on the boards because every post they make is ambushed by angry circlejerkers who spam 'plsnerfchampionx.'

Orangesilk8 votes

Specially the retarded ones.

"Rito nerf Illaoi plz"

lolptwo11 votes

Reality is most kids on here ( and I say kids because majority of the community is 15-20) don't understand what it's like in a professional workplace.

It's not like a high school classroom where you raise your hand and say whatever the hell you want.

They're positions where people make decisions and others don't but still know what's going on and have input. A lot of Rioters can give imput but can't give executive orders.

Meanwhile the boards are full or personal attack on Rioters and extremely hostile behavior to a group of people who literally work full time to create what has become the Worlds largest online game. It's just sad, clearly they are doing something right.

Pentarina Only10 votes

THAT UPVOTE BOT.

Pentarina Only10 votes

Yup nice downvote bot..

Deep Terror Nami168 votes

Beep boop. https://i.gyazo.com/90b81cf52c87937a13e71644541ca6c1.gif

Pentarina Only4 votes

I don't get it... What's the joke here?

Troll Armada98 votes

that's the downvote bot.

VulcanIsHere74 votes

Nope, people only downvoted you because you were an asshole. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

StealthWarden16 votes

BAZINGA!

StealthWarden13 votes

i downvoted your trash..and im not a bot. sorry bud, we just dont like what you said, learn to deal.

KaisadiIIa5 votes

bots can speak? /s

rtbf2256182414 votes

Your attitude is trash too.

StealthWarden9 votes

i dont have an attitude..you made a couple posts that added zero value to the thread, i.e "trash" and we didnt like it so it got down voted. you will have to learn how to handle this emotionally and mentally as it will happen again someday. My attitude isnt the issue...

rtbf2256182412 votes

Look, the problem wasn't that Pentarina's attitude was bad (apart from the original comment i suppose), it was that he didn't get the joke.

What posts are you talking about? I've literally said only one thing and people can't even see how stupid your comment is as THAT didn't add anything either.

Melledoneus17 votes

I HAVE EVOLVED BEYOND JOKES. I AM NOW A DOWNVOTE BOT. BEEP BOOP.

Also, try this free PSN code I got off Amazon, for a chance to win a survey with nothing at all! http://www.freevirusesarefunandallcomegetthemtoday.com

Starblaster1112 votes

Lol those look like some fun viruses! But I'm too lazy to click on that link.

General Esdeath 5 votes

Even if they could, there's less than 100 of them and millions of us. They obviously can't be super close to us like they could have back in the days of season 1.

Dominick Destine5 votes

{quoted}

They obviously can't be super close to us like they could have back in the days of season 1.

But , but senpai.... chan....

AbyssionKnight9 votes

There's actually over a thousand employees at Riot Games... not sure where you got the idea they have less than 100.

Still right about the scale remark though, just pointing out your numbers are way off.

Decrit3 votes

Actually on the american division they are less than a thousand. Like, 500? The company was rated a while ago and the data showed that.

Then you have to consider those that have nothing to say on boards, like those that have no vision on projects like coders, testers, artists that are not directing anything. Some of those still interact on boards of their will, of course, but they don' t have to.

Sarutobi9 votes

{quoted}

There's actually over a thousand employees at Riot Games... not sure where you got the idea they have less than 100.

Still right about the scale remark though, just pointing out your numbers are way off.

He is probably talking about how many of them were active, or could actually use the forum to communicate. You probably have to take special training courses to actually use the forum like most Riots use it. So that's probably why the number is so low.

General Esdeath 4 votes

I'm not talking about the entire employee team. I mean the people who talk on boards, play games with other players, and interact with us in other ways.

Trylobyte5 votes

I think the important part is that, as a Rioter, anything they say can and will be used against them. The forums have a long memory when it comes to finding something to whine about and I've often seen people dig up posts made years ago, scrub them of all meaningful context, and try to use them to say 'OMG RITO LIES' despite the fact the Rioter who posted it initially may not even work there anymore or they explained their decision not to do the thing they 'promised' in another years-old post that's conveniently not provided. I also see a general failure to understand how a company works, resulting in the wrong people (Usually Morello) consistently getting blamed for something they (or their department) don't even work on or for something that's pretty much out of their hands.

This results in Rioters having to play super-safe on the forums, avoid some topics altogether, and avoid anything that sounds like a 'promise' since even if it doesn't come back to get them now it might come back in two or three years as a necropost. This goes doubly so for both long-time employees (Morello, Meddler) and for people who are in important, well-known roles (Jaredan, Hippalus, Lyte).

TeCoolMage5 votes

Add yellow rioters: riot accounts that let you say whatever the hell you want that an average poster can say. Add a disclaimer to the end of each post automatically saying that while the rioter has information on the subject, the yellow name means anything said does not represent the company as a whole in any shape or form.

MrRazzleDazzle4 votes

Hello Summoner, thanks for reaching out to us!

Have you taken a look around General Discussion lately? There are TONS of threads about this particular subject. As a courtesy to the rest of our community we try not to split conversations up into multiple threads, so I won't be able to give in-depth answers to these questions here.

Take a look in General Discussion and contribute your voice to the existing threads!

-The Beard

They tried that. The forums flamed the guy, reposting his iconic message onto every thread with a question until Riot fired him and disbanded the ambassador program.

I WILL TROLL YOU4 votes

False , Riot employees are cold soulless corporate drones. With out thought they will destroy your being with blast of dark matter , sell your children as slaves on Yi's potato farm and force you to watch 24 hour Mr. Rogers marathons on classic cable. Don't say you weren't warned.

Swae71 votes

They made the game we enjoy today, be grateful

I WILL TROLL YOU5 votes

Internet providers should screen people to make sure they have a sense of humor before accessing the WWW.

Zurctc3 votes

I am politely asking for a new Diana skin, please lmao

slippykitten1 votes

They don't communicate because they operate under the same principles that they monitor their community - "Everything that doesn't make me feel amazing and special and appreciated is toxic"

So if you criticize them, they essentially mute and ignore, because that's the way they look at the world. The only thing they actually discuss is positive posts and peoples finger paintings of champions.

As for your subtle communist/fascist comments that we are "biting that hand that feeds us", you couldn't be more wrong/absurd/delusional/etc. We are the hand that feeds them, they operate on the profits they receive from the consumers (that's us folks) and if they ignore their players, they are the ones biting the hand that feeds them. That's how capitalism works; they offer a product or service, we give them money. They keep providing quality products and services and keep their customers happy, they keep making money. They get big heads and think they can screw their customers, they lose money.

Before you give me the ignorant "but da game is FREE brah!" understand that the f2p model is an intelligently designed business model for making money, it isn't charity. They have made more money creating a wider customer base to buy skins/champs because they offer the initial product for free than they would have if they sold the game.

It is a business, you are the customer. If you want to humiliate yourself and place yourself in voluntary obligation to a business that is making profit off you, go right ahead, but don't act like anyone treating a business as a business is out of line.

The Governer3 votes

Funny thing is, 9 out of 10 times they weren't rightfully and respectfully criticizing League of Legends as a product. They are just being jerks, promoting scornful and ignorant sarcasm. They were rude and often their remarks for the game consist of a majority of mocking. How is that even constructive and helpful in a business model? Rioters do not post here often because you guys feel so spoiled and entitled, while being surrounded by ignorance. You guys act as if you know fully the game data and knowledge to make balance decisions.

I understand and actually agree with you on our relationships with Riot but biting Riot's ass off isn't going to solve anything but just exacerbating the problem.

More from Player Behavior

The indefinite banning of Tyler1
Player Behavior4,799 comments
2,942
votes
14 day ban because playing Nunu Support with Smite is "stealing other people's roles"...?
Player Behavior1,525 comments
1,086
votes
Riot should add monthly status cards
Player Behavior241 comments
843
votes
Reminder that we haven't gotten our Summoner report cards yet :/
Player Behavior145 comments
619
votes
I'm not "triggered" by you throwing insults.
Player Behavior361 comments
548
votes
Black Alistar, King Rammus!!!!
Player Behavior462 comments
503
votes

More by Dominick Destine

You can tell who is an old school player and who isn't by how much they hate autofill
Gameplay320 comments
244
votes
In the old days "If you can't play every role at least decently, you're not ready for ranked"but now
Gameplay203 comments
229
votes
"We will add Solo Queue after Dynamic Queue" (few months later) - "We will never add Solo Queue"
Gameplay102 comments
211
votes
The only time telling another player "Kill yourself" would be acceptable (Brief example)
Player Behavior64 comments
176
votes
@Riot; For real, what was the thought process behind the removal of Solo Queue?
Gameplay70 comments
162
votes
Zed over 15% play rate, nearly 70% ban rate and hovering around 53% win rate
Gameplay241 comments
125
votes