To all those who downvote the "New champs banned from ranked" threads

RookPusher·Aug 28, 2017·117 votes·5,216 views

Where is your god now?

http://imgur.com/bGiMJ62

146 Comments

Mecha MaIphiteAug 28, 201722 votes

"but I played him a few times on pbe so I basically main him xd"

Very Hard EngageAug 28, 201717 votes

they should be banned, however, mathematically..... its better if you leave it unbanned, as it will be on the enemy team at a 5-4 ratio, in your favor.

assuming you dont play ornn.

RookPusherAug 28, 20174 votes

....Can you show your work on that? Becuase my team has the ability to pick that bogus goat, too.

Very Hard EngageAug 28, 201713 votes

{quoted}

....Can you show your work on that? Becuase my team has the ability to pick that bogus goat, too.

............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

ok, so you do not want to play ornn, correct, that means that for every game that an ornn gets gets played 9 other players want to play ornn.

4 of those players happen to be on your team

5 of them happen to be on the enemy team.

now assign pick order, if you are first pick, you dont pick ornn, the enemy team has it.

if the enemy team is first pick, they pick it and it cant end up on your team.

yes you will have games where your team is first pick and auto locks ornn. but over time, because YOU dont want to play ornn, it WILL end up on the enemy team more often than it is on your team.

the recorded observation is that ornn shows up in 100 games

it will be on the enemy team 55 times, and it will be on your team 44 times.

giving you 11 games of advantage. or potential freebie wins.

basically it gives you an extra 10 wins out of 100 games that you shouldn't have. or rather should be toss ups.

but if you play top lane or jungle then its a hugely favored situation for you, as because you're in the role and you dont want the champion, the champion cant appear on your team at all. giving you an even wider margin of freebie wins.

RookPusherAug 28, 20173 votes

Oh you're saying statistically. That wasn't clear from the previous post. Yeah, but so what? Just because they have a better chance of getting him doesn't provide me any consolation.

The problem is statistically players tend to be bad with him. Why risk it? You should be in the business of eliminating your chances of loss in champ select. What's the bigger threat then? I guess it would depend on the bracket, but I assume you that in Bronze, people just charge headlong into whatever champ is shiney.

I swear to god it goes unregulated so Riot can laugh at the Bronzies.

La Belle SauvageAug 28, 20176 votes

Bronzie here, I too hate it when players take new champs into ranked. As if isn't hard enough for Bronzies to win w/champ they are comfortable with.

SanctimoniousAug 28, 20172 votes

xd diamond here, we're mentally handicapped too dw. Somethings just don't change.

Nami Want SalamiAug 28, 20179 votes

"Trust me I'm Ornn one trick"

Zero ShingetsuAug 28, 20178 votes

My God is in heaven. As far as the mundane happenings of League, it depends. Is ranked serious enough that reputations and wealth are on the line? If so, new champions shouldn't go into the draft rotation for at least a month. If losing ranks doesn't result in severe damage to one's property, person, name or estate, it's just a game and you should leave them in. Some people enjoy playing new champions in high-stakes situations.

I mean I was thrown into kendo meets from year one, as a complete rookie. It was harrowing, but it allowed me to learn way faster than I was learning just by going through kata and watching my senpai. Sometimes trial by fire is the best kind.

RookPusherAug 28, 201773 votes

idgaf what people enjoy. Ranked isn't for good times. If you want to have fun, find a ferris wheel. There are normals for a reason, and frankly, if they banned new champs from Ranked, and allowed them in Normals, a clear message would be sent that says "This is where you should be experimenting"

Ranked is not for fun. And the more Riot pretends that nothing is wrong by not removing new champs for 2 weeks, the more people show up without sobriety, preparedness, or interest in their fellow players.

Also, that comparison you've used isn't the same thing here AT. ALL. Did you want to just tell everyone you take Martial Arts lessons?

Zero ShingetsuAug 28, 20178 votes

{quoted}

idgaf what people enjoy. Ranked isn't for good times. If you want to have fun, find a ferris wheel. There are normals for a reason, and frankly, if they banned new champs from Ranked, and allowed them in Normals, a clear message would be sent that says "This is where you should be experimenting"

If you don't care what people enjoy, you're in the wrong field. Online games are all about sharing enjoyment with others, and sometimes that means dealing with a different of opinions as to what's fun and what isn't.

Ranked is not for fun. And the more Riot pretends that nothing is wrong by not removing new champs for 2 weeks, the more people show up without sobriety, preparedness, or interest in their fellow players.

What is ranked for, then? I mean it's part of the game. Games exist for fun, literally. It's a hobby. A pastime. For some people, casual normal games are fun enough. For others, it's only fun if the competition is stiff and everyone is giving it 100%. The latter group goes to ranked. Even the best Forza racers and competitive Tekken players deeply enjoy playing the game. That's why they bother competing at a high level. If it's not fun, there's no point. For that matter, athletes do the same thing. At the heart of any pro baseball, basketball, hockey, etc. player is a kid who just really loves the game.

Also, that comparison you've used isn't the same thing here AT. ALL. Did you want to just tell everyone you take Martial Arts lessons?

Three years of high school kendo doesn't exactly constitute "lessons". It was that or go-home club, and I wanted to find a niche, so there I was. The analogy was about the level of competition. Take out the ability to play new champions in ranked, and those who get a rush of adrenaline from competing at a high level as more or less a novice... They've got no real place to go in League.

Just like... you know, when I was competing against really serious kendo fighters as a kid just out of middle school. It was a rush. It was fun. I barely knew what I was doing, so I had to make every sense count. League obviously isn't a sport, so it's not exactly the same, but the premise is. It's still more exciting when you don't have muscle memory to fall back on.

NoblewindAug 28, 201729 votes

Ranked isn't for fun in the sense he's talking about and he's correct. It's the same in any competition level above recreation. It doesn't matter if you're "trying", you still shouldn't try something for the first time in a ranked game. You don't try switch hitting for the very first time during a baseball game, you try it in practice first. Nobody gives af if you want to try it out, how much you're learning, and how hard you might Want to win. That's not the point. You're essentially not taking the game seriously in a serious environment for all intents and purposes. Same goes for new champions in ranked.

xelakerAug 28, 201714 votes

you are everything wrong with league right now.

Zero ShingetsuAug 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

you are everything wrong with league right now.

Your opinion is noted, if grossly inaccurate. (That or perhaps you replied to the wrong comment.)

xelakerAug 28, 201715 votes

nope 100% correct comment.

NoblewindAug 29, 201711 votes

Can confirm

JaxMoonStealerAug 29, 20178 votes

Why the hell was this upvoted? The martial arts guy is wrong but this guy is just acting childish. Attacking someone's persona instead of replying with an actual argument (which Noblewind actually did) isn't too mature.

La Belle SauvageAug 28, 201717 votes

Boom this.

ChaoticPineconeAug 29, 20172 votes

Same logic can be used to require Riot to auto-ban Caitlyn and Karma since their winrates are also extremely low. "Ranked is not meant for fun, by picking those champs youre putting yourself at a disadvantage, etc"

And get rid of anything not meta too. Since "Ranked is not meant for fun".

ShahamutAug 29, 20173 votes

I mean, make the new champ immune to bans in normals then for the same duration?

There have been several new champs that I have played in ranked because people keep banning them in normals, but not ranked. I bring new champs to a custom game (now practice mode!) before bringing them into a game at all. But a lot of times, it ends up being ranked, because they aren't getting banned out.

Voluug13Aug 29, 20171 votes

You have blind pick for no bans normals.

ShahamutAug 29, 20172 votes

So I can internet speed battle for the new champ or the role to play them? No thanks

HalcyonDwellerAug 29, 20171 votes

Blind pick sucks ass. People don't respect call order, steal roles from one another, and throw tantrums when they don't get what they want way more.

At least that's how it was last time I played blind.

SaezioAug 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

idgaf what people enjoy. Ranked isn't for good times. If you want to have fun, find a ferris wheel. There are normals for a reason, and frankly, if they banned new champs from Ranked, and allowed them in Normals, a clear message would be sent that says "This is where you should be experimenting"

Ranked is not for fun. And the more Riot pretends that nothing is wrong by not removing new champs for 2 weeks, the more people show up without sobriety, preparedness, or interest in their fellow players.

Also, that comparison you've used isn't the same thing here AT. ALL. Did you want to just tell everyone you take Martial Arts lessons?

IT IS A GAME! I get it when people are annoyed in masters and challenger when they lose a game but you are Bronze 5 and you deserve that honestly judging from your spite towards people having FUN IN A GAME. Also you have 1 ban in every game just ban the newest champion? i don't see the problem. what is the difference between Bronze 5 and Diamond 5? Both situations you can't make money from the game because you are not good enough so the only difference is a loading border. People in ranked should be mad that the banning system is not the same as LCS. Watching bans progress actually gives you more or less and idea of what your enemy is playing. It should always be : toplane 1st then jg then mid etc in the champ select and then ban like lcs so there are no double bans.

I Hate BeesAug 29, 20172 votes

The reason I instaban new champions is because I don't want to deal with overbuffed nonsense, don't want someone on my team to feed with it, or have the enemy summoner either feed or win with it, because 9/10 times people that first hour buy a champion are going out of their roles to play the newest champ. Also 9/10 times it's not perma'd it just gets first picked anyway. I agree this game is supposed to be for fun, but fun for me is not dealing with nonsense. I'd rather permaban a champ for 2 weeks and play against a real "insert new champ here """"""MAIN"""""" " than play someone just playing it because it's new. You're right though you do just get 1 ban a game and I will always use it on a new champion, to make sure I have fun in the game. I feel like you misinterpret other people having fun from individuals having fun, just because to you feeding with the new champ is fun doesn't mean it's fun for your team, and just because I permaban a champ doesn't mean it's fun for whoever wants to play it, but like I said before having a relatively normal game of league is fun for me, and there is plenty of not fun things that happen in league that aren't related to champion select. Also losing in ranked regardless of elo is still annoying. That was a bad example.

EedatAug 28, 201724 votes

Then play norms instead of the mode where your team is depending on you're experience and knowledge to perform at an adequate level?

Zero ShingetsuAug 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Then play norms instead of the mode where your team is depending on you're experience and knowledge to perform at an adequate level?

Fair enough, except that you kind of missed the point about level of competition. A lot of people in normals aren't really taking it seriously. They're screwing around and if they lose, no big deal. But a lot of guys in ranked take it VERY seriously, so the competition is way more exciting. Just a theory.

EedatAug 28, 201730 votes

You just said ranked is taken very seriously, then how exactly is it fair to intentionally handicap oneself by playing a champion they have absolutely zero experience playing or playing against and expecting their team to pick up their slack?

Think of it this way. You enter a competition and get put on a team with 4 other random people that are deemed your skill level. One of the other people on your team decides he's going to play with one hand behind his back to test himself. Don't you think the other 4 people are going to be pissed?

La Belle SauvageAug 28, 201710 votes

Except Kendo matches so far as I know are 1v1.

You as a first time rookie, would not be thrown in a 5v5 with established Martial artist because you'd hamper the team. Just like new champs.

I spend time playing ranked and I don't want to lose LP because some person bought the new champ and has very little games, if any, played with that champ.

Test new champs or ones you've never played in non ranked games.

Zero ShingetsuAug 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bello Bagheera,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHgA7ry,comment-id=00050002,timestamp=2017-08-28T18:03:50.402+0000)

Except Kendo matches so far as I know are 1v1.

You as a first time rookie, would not be thrown in a 5v5 with established Martial artist because you'd hamper the team. Just like new champs.

I spend time playing ranked and I don't want to lose LP because some person bought the new champ and has very little games, if any, played with that champ.

Test new champs or ones you've never played in non ranked games.

They're 1v1, yeah, but the team's score is cumulative. So my losses still affected the team's overall performance.

I absolutely understand the concern regarding new champs in ranked, it's just that Riot may well have reasons to keep it as it is, which include appealing the the largest number of players possible.

Not xPekeAug 28, 20175 votes

I can accept Riot's reasonings like appealing to the largest number of players possible.

I do not however accept your take on it. If you want to try a champion try it out of Ranked first.

You say Ranked is still a place to have fun? Well think about the rest of the team and the other players you will handicap by possibly performing sub-optimally on a champion you don't know. You want your fun, but guess what? Your teammates do as well. Think about others. Not only will you take the fun out of the game for them, but you'll also possibly take their LP along with it.

Look at the bigger picture.

Zero ShingetsuAug 28, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Not xPeke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHgA7ry,comment-id=0005000200000000,timestamp=2017-08-28T23:00:54.944+0000)

I can accept Riot's reasonings like appealing to the largest number of players possible.

I do not however accept your take on it. If you want to try a champion try it out of Ranked first.

You say Ranked is still a place to have fun? Well think about the rest of the team and the other players you will handicap by possibly performing sub-optimally on a champion you don't know. You want your fun, but guess what? Your teammates do as well. Think about others. Not only will you take the fun out of the game for them, but you'll also possibly take their LP along with it.

Look at the bigger picture.

Fair enough. I can certainly see the argument. Personally, though, if a game is well designed, one shortcoming shouldn't be enough to ruin the entire experience. Lowbies come into kessen runs all the time in my game of choice, but we don't complain. We pat them on the back, tell them to stay behind us, and have a great time together. At least League players trying new champions in ranked have the same general skill level as their teammates.

If literal pros can tolerate lowbies in much more complex and skill-driven play on one game, either the problem the OP raised isn't as big or League is poorly designed. That's my observation.

Not xPekeAug 28, 20173 votes

All I'm saying is that I have the issue with the "morality" of it.

You're entitle to pick anything you want as long as Riot allows you. But you should also be prepared to accept the consequences and dissaproval. If people get mad at you for picking a champion for the first time in Ranked you should already be aware that it has a high chance of happening. The fact that you pick said champion anyway shows you have no regards for your teammates, as you are willing to risk that in return for doing what pleases you.

Sure, have a general skill level as a teammate is still somewhat important, but not knowing the ins and outs of a champion you're playing in Ranked will put you and your team at a huge disadvantage. Don't you think it's unfair that you, 1 player out of the 5, make that decision for the team? You are effectively CHOOSING to handicap you and them.

You might be on the same skill level as the players in the game, but when you're playing against a one trick pony Riven main and you barely know the builds, strength, and combos of your champion, does being on a same general skill level REALLY mean anything?

FearlessCreatorAug 28, 20176 votes

I don't believe in god.

Zero ShingetsuAug 28, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I don't believe in god.

More the loss for you, but that was only a tiny part of my comment. The main reason I'm here is to talk League.

CytheGuyAug 28, 20174 votes

I don't see how that is a loss. I'm an atheist but you don't have more than I do (not talking physically)

Zero ShingetsuAug 28, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I don't see how that is a loss. I'm an atheist but you don't have more than I do (not talking physically)

If that's your perception, that's fine. You choose what you believe. You're wrong about me having no more than you, of course, and I'll pray you come to see that one day, but if you don't... Well, again, it's your choice. No one can make you believe anything.

But that's the last I'll say of it, as a League of Legends forum isn't the place for deep religious debate.

DivewingAug 28, 201710 votes

{quoted}

a League of Legends forum isn't the place for deep religious debate.

Well shit, NOW you tell me...

Pack up the Teemo Cult guys! Party's over, we're going home.

JaxMoonStealerAug 29, 20173 votes

"You choose what you believe" could be applied to your "You're wrong about me having no more than you" too.

Zero ShingetsuAug 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

"You choose what you believe" could be applied to your "You're wrong about me having no more than you" too.

In theory. But if one believes in an unproven fact which is later proven, did one not believe in a fact all along?

I believe Ornn will be a great support in this game. Right now that claim is unproven. But one day down the road, when he's sitting atop the support tiers, it will have been a fact all along.

JaxMoonStealerAug 29, 20172 votes

Only if the fact is proven.

I'm not attacking your belief, I myself used to have a lot of faith so I know what it is like. Neither I nor everyone know everything so a higher being might actually exist. But you're really coming off as someone who feels superior to others with your comment which brings no good at the end. And if the faith we're talking about is Christian faith, then it's the opposite of what it teaches.

I didn't downvote your original comment because of your faith, I downvoted it because of the attitude you showed towards others.

But that can be easily fixed. Have a great week nonetheless :)

Zero ShingetsuAug 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Only if the fact is proven.

I'm not attacking your belief, I myself used to have a lot of faith so I know what it is like. Neither I nor everyone know everything so a higher being might actually exist. But you're really coming off as someone who feels superior to others with your comment which brings no good at the end. And if the faith we're talking about is Christian faith, then it's the opposite of what it teaches.

I didn't downvote your original comment because of your faith, I downvoted it because of the attitude you showed towards others.

But that can be easily fixed. Have a great week nonetheless :)

Fair enough, I can understand that. I see where you're coming from, and I do apologize if I came across as arrogant. It wasn't the intention at all. :) I merely take a firm stance in an attempt to show conviction. I theorize that I'll reach more people's hearts on the matter if I show that a reasoned, analytical thinker can take an unshakable stance on matters of faith that doesn't waver in the least, without having to be blatantly "YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE YOU'RE A SINNER!" if that makes sense.

I certainly don't feel superior to anyone in the least. I'm as much a sinner as anyone. I just aim to show that I believe it's fact the way many believe the Big Bang or the formation of the moon were facts. No one saw the Big Bang happen. No one saw the moon form out of fragments of space rock and somehow fall into perfect orbit around the earth after however many millennia. But they believe it as fact, and that's perfectly fine.

I merely aim to show that belief in a God one hasn't seen with his own eyes is as credible as belief in a stellar event one hasn't seen with his own eyes. I apologize if that sometimes comes across more "holier than thou" than intended, haha.

Thanks for the rational take, it's refreshing to see. Have a great week yourself!

JaxMoonStealerAug 31, 20171 votes

No worries, I was actually in the same place as you some years ago so I totally understand you. But empathy really plays a very important role in influencing others. Kind of like Jesus "reduced" himself (in a certain, physical way) to the level of the sinners to be able to change them. Anyway, you apologized for your comment which is the most important part and I really appreciate it :)

Good luck with that anyway, I'm now an atheist/agnostic but realize the many good things Christianity (you're Christian, right?) can bring. The person I love and respect the most in this world is actually a Christian so despite me being away from God I still respect everything concerning him. I've been going through tough times lately and also recognize that having a little more faith like I did before could've helped greatly.

And as an atheist I tell you to keep embracing your faith, it teaches many good things and brings joys and pleasures to your life that are hard to compare to anything else. I might not believe in God but I do believe on the changes that having faith in him can bring to the world.

Cheers friend :)

kargishAug 29, 20172 votes

I have seen many different kind of people both ingame and on the forums. You sir however, really take the place at the bottom.

In case you haven't realised, this game has taken a place in the e-sport category, and though that might seem like a weird term, it's still a category with a ton of money in it. Some people actually live off of this game, and others get a good income to help their living conditions. There's way more to this than just being a game. By this logic something like football (soccer for all ya Americans) is also just a game, but in reality the reason why we call it a sport is because it has demands, viewers, money and volunteers. League meet the exact same conditions, tons of people watch the pro scene and a lot of people volunteerly play the game either on a casual or competitive level.

And please don't bring your religious stuff in here. I don't hate anyone who believes something, I respect that, but I can't stand anyone who shoves it down people's throats and tell them how they are lost without their guidance.

Zero ShingetsuAug 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

And please don't bring your religious stuff in here. I don't hate anyone who believes something, I respect that, but I can't stand anyone who shoves it down people's throats and tell them how they are lost without their guidance.

My apologies on that part. It was one part faith, three parts sarcasm in response to the time honored "WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW???" meme. No offense intended.

As for the rest, I get what you're saying, but when I say "sport" I refer to athletic pursuits. As someone who has both engaged in sport (from baseball and soccer, which is what we call it in Japan, to kendo and kyuudo) and plays video games professionally, I appreciate the difference between a sport and a gaming competition. When I said "League isn't a sport", I meant to say that I understood my comparison was a little extreme, as I was comparing something that requires reflexes and tactics to something that requires reflexes, tactics, physical strength, stamina and spatial awareness.

Didn't mean to diminish pro gaming in the least! Sorry if it came across that way.

BellowsAug 28, 20173 votes

You guys just don't know how to play that champ. He is really good actually if you look at my last two games and follow that build. I find that building a Sheen based item first like Trinity Force or frozen gauntlet depending on the matchup is a must immediately followed by a sterak's gage those are your two core items. You're really tanky early on and need more damage than tank stats hand grasp of the undying helps you sustained through a lot. you're really tank key early on and need more damage than tank status and grasp of the undying helps you sustain through a lot. Steraks gage helps you to take a lot early on and raises your base ad. Your q has a one-to-one ratio on ad after building of Sheen based item and sterak's Gage which raises your base ad, it increases your Sheen damage and the damage of your q Which is far more reliable to land in use than your e. Your E is not going to do a lot of damage until late game when you are building your three tank items. So for example against a Tryndamere, you would rush a Sheen and Boots. Then you would finish Frozen Gauntlet and ninja tabbies. After that you want to immediately rushed your sterak's Gage. That is your Core built so far. Your last three items will be your optional depending on the rest of the match up. These must all be tank items though. If you copy one of my last two games Rune pages and masteries and this build you should find a lot of success. He's an all-or-nothing tank so do not try to Skirmish with him like he is maokai or poppy. He just takes some getting used to I wish you all the luck in playing this great champ.

Cosmic WarperAug 28, 201711 votes

wow two games = champ is good

BellowsAug 28, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cosmic Warper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xvHgA7ry,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2017-08-28T21:07:05.795+0000)

wow two games = champ is good

Sounds salty, anyways yes, two games in a row where core items were similar is statistical evidence that you don't know how to play him properly.

Not xPekeAug 28, 20179 votes

2 games is an incredibly small sample to bring forward evidence though...

PalmtreeGuyAug 29, 20172 votes

You do understand that the bare minimum for actual research is three trials, right? Even then that's what they use for elementary school science fairs; three trials. If you wanted to have actual reliable statistics you need to look at overall win rates for the champ. Unless you yourself want to play (at least) 50 games with the exact same build, that's the best data you can go off of.