Mages only have 1 truly dedicated Keystone...

xxxMadLionxxx·May 3, 2018·87 votes·19,611 views

Summon Aery is really a support keystone that mages happen to be able to use. Phase rush is meant more for bruiser but this guy likes it cause nothing else is good on him.

Only keystone that was truely designed for mages is Arcane comet.

On the flipside, ADCs have 3 dedicated keystone, and Assassins have 3 dedicated keystones. Tanks have 3 dedicated keystones, and even supports have 3 dedicated keystones.

Bruiser apparently have phase rush and conqueror.

I'm not saying mages can't use the other keystones, I'm just saying fundamentally from a design standpoint, mages only got 1 keystone that was designed just for them, while all other classes got 2-3 keystones designed for them.

181 Comments

Vid the StrangeMay 3, 201843 votes

There's nothing stopping mages from using Fleet Footwork, though. In fact, Footwork for the most part actually heals more with AP than it does for AD. Even moreso once IE's critical modifier is removed. (Don't let the fact that the heal can crit fool you, it only increases the heal by 40% without IE, whereas the AP ratio on Footwork is already higher than the AD ratio to begin with.)

The only problem, really, is that the Precision tree's middle row has nothing useful for mages. Replace Legend: Bloodline with a Legend rune that gives CDR or something, so that mages have a rune in that row.

/-/-/

Legend: Intellect

Gain 5% (+0.5% per Legend stack) Cooldown Reduction, up to 10% at 10 stacks.

/-/-/

Of course we probably can't have this because of Ezreal.

saltranMay 3, 201822 votes

But FleetF comes with A speed, worthless on most mages

Vid the StrangeMay 3, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But FleetF comes with A speed, worthless on most mages

If you mean the bonus for going Precision primary, it's only 9% AS. Assuming you go Sorcery or Domination secondary, you still get 10 AP from the adaptive bonus as well.

JbelsMay 3, 201811 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vid the Strange,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xsvq8TlJ,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2018-05-03T21:35:31.796+0000)

If you mean the bonus for going Precision primary, it's only 9% AS. Assuming you go Sorcery or Domination secondary, you still get 10 AP from the adaptive bonus as well.

That's still damage you're missing out for a keystone that at best will help you get through a laning phase that it is already possible to get through with Comet. You miss out on a lot of damage if you don't take comet. Each individual comet doesn't do a lot, but it seriously adds up over the course of the game

KaiokoMay 3, 201811 votes

Movement speed not attack speed. That's why Viktor will occasionally take it.

saltranMay 3, 201818 votes

I was talking about the base stat that comes with FleetF since it's a Precision rune.

And Viktor was obviously an exception anyway.

2Charmnot2CharmMay 3, 20189 votes

Viktor took it patches ago cause of the amount of the free mana they were able to abuse with Presence of mind, now that they changed it to mana on kill I doubt they go Fleet of foot keystone.

KaiokoMay 3, 20184 votes

He still takes it to some extent unless we argue that all stats website out there lie. Depends on the match up.

Risen29May 3, 20185 votes

It's garbage on viktor after the nerfs.

The problem for mages is that none of the keystones in sorcery feel like they help, but the rest of the tree has all kinds of stuff that is useful to you.

HópeMay 4, 20184 votes

{quoted}

But FleetF comes with A speed, worthless on most mages

Fleetwork gives Movement speed not A speed

The fact that your post got upvoted shows how clueless the boards are.

NineTailedMysticMay 4, 201817 votes

The clueless ones are the people not realizing that he's referring to the As that comes with Precision primary.

jocomotionMay 4, 20187 votes

"Mages have only one truly dedicated keystone"

Emo TwinkMay 4, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vid the Strange,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xsvq8TlJ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-03T21:13:34.420+0000)

There's nothing stopping mages from using Fleet Footwork, though. In fact, Footwork for the most part actually heals more with AP than it does for AD. Even moreso once IE's critical modifier is removed. (Don't let the fact that the heal can crit fool you, it only increases the heal by 40% without IE, whereas the AP ratio on Footwork is already higher than the AD ratio to begin with.)

The only problem, really, is that the Precision tree's middle row has nothing useful for mages. Replace Legend: Bloodline with a Legend rune that gives CDR or something, so that mages have a rune in that row.

/-/-/

Legend: Intellect

Gain 5% (+0.5% per Legend stack) Cooldown Reduction, up to 10% at 10 stacks.

/-/-/

Of course we probably can't have this because of Ezreal.

I'd be all for this, but the bonus attack speed from the tree doesnt benefit mages much is the thing. That's why I hate presence of mind being on it, because I dont need AS on Zoe or Lux, unless i go the PoE Lux build.

CLÜEMay 4, 20182 votes

Except that being a mage and autoattacking past laning phase feels awful and clunky for most.

L Psy KongrooMay 3, 201814 votes

It would be nice if the Domination tree was more appealing for mages, that way they could at least opt into Electrocute without feeling gimped by the loss of several lower-tier rune slots.

Acheron16May 4, 20181 votes

They can go, but have to be burst combo mages like Brand, just like any other user of the tree.

The lower tier runes also function perfectly fine for a mage that goes Domination: spell vamp with Ravenous Hunter, AP farming with Eyeball collection.

L Psy KongrooMay 4, 20183 votes

{quoted}

They can go, but have to be burst combo mages like Brand, just like any other user of the tree.

The lower tier runes also function perfectly fine for a mage that goes Domination: spell vamp with Ravenous Hunter, AP farming with Eyeball collection.

Yes, they CAN take those runes, but they are objectively inferior to the lower tier runes from the Sorcery tree. They don't offer as much for mages as they do for other users of that tree.

Step Sis LuxMay 3, 201811 votes

I hope they gonna give us new rune cuz they already added one in yellow tree, now we are getting one in red tree so blue is next

LateCustomerMay 3, 20187 votes

Aery is great for any mages who like to harass constantly in lane. Rush is great for any mages who want to get up in your grill. Comet is great for any team fight oriented mages, or those who can consistantly slow/stun you to make the most of the damage in lane.

I use all three, depending on matchup.

flibitydooMay 4, 201812 votes

Aery is great on literally everyone

"did you damage the enemy?" "great, here's like an extra +15 damage because you did so". It triggers of literally anything and everything you do to interact against your opponent. Like if you check OP.gg, the most popular rune for Poppy (and this has been the case since the runes came out) is Aery. A tank. Running Aery. Because well, Poppy doesn't really fit well into any rune choice and Aery is generalist enough to work on her.

Phase Rush is only good on mages that need to care about positioning which is why Aurelion sol is forced into running it (since he has a very specific distance he needs to maintain between himself and his opponent to do damage).

Comet is also very generalist though it primarily favors champions that poke every few seconds (meaning Karthus/swain feels bad) and is specifically favored towards champions that have disposable cc effect spells (eg Sion and his E, Xerath and his W).

Automated RivenMay 4, 20187 votes

The issue here is that mages dont have a dedicated keystone at all. In fact nobody really does as everyone takes a bit of everything.

PTA, marksmen bruisers Lethal tempo, ... lul Fleet footwork, Marksmen, mages, skirmishers Conqueror, This one is pretty much just melee carries like bruisers and scirmishers

Dark harvest. anyone who jungles and deals damage electrocute, assassins and mages predator, bruisers assassins mages

aery, mages bruisers supports Comet, mages supports adc's bruisers phase rush, Ironically mostly mages

Grasp, tanks bruisers aftershock, tanks bruisers Guardian, supports

Glacial augment, tbh idk. I literally think i have only seen this one game when I wasnt messing around with it. Klepto, ez/gp special spellbook, bruisers mages supports

There isnt really a speciallized rune for anyone besides supports tbh.

MogarlMay 4, 20184 votes

I think your first statement is half right. No class has a dedicated keystone, but a lot of champions do. The question is which class has the most champions without a dedicated keystone. The easiest way to find this answer is to look at which champions use mostly aerie and have no way to shield allies, or possibly spellbook since it is also very generalist.

Imo looking at it based on class is unnecessary as your (only slightly flawed) list does make a fair point that classes can cross in keystone use at weird points.

Personally I'l like to see a keystone dedicated to low cooldown rotation casters. Mostly Viktor (personal bias) since I detest Aery, but other options have been nerfed, were always lackluster, are really niche, or suicidal.

Automated RivenMay 4, 20182 votes

Thats fair. Dps/battle mages do get the short end of the stick a bit. I would like to see conqueror changed a bit to allow mages to utilize it.

Before the pbe they talked about using the keystone to give percent armor/mr pen instead of true damage. But they ruined that and made it purely ad. It would be nice if they gave it something like. Gain 5-25 ap + 1-10% ap based on level after your first basic attack after 4 seconds in combat.

(The low flat ap and percent ap is to keep tanks from abusing it)

iPooUnicornsMay 3, 20186 votes

Also Riot seems to love locking out many champions from Electrocute/Phase Rush that would like to use it.

EedatMay 3, 20186 votes

I would like to see another Keystone in Sorcery but I'll disagree with how you decided that a lot of these keystones are "dedicated" because that is very far from true

Pika FoxMay 3, 20185 votes

Many mages like aery; Morg, lux are examples.

And many mages like phase rush.

There are no real "Class Dedicated" keystones; the keystones are meant to enforce a dedicated playstyle. More champions in a class might be able to use one keystone over another, but they werent designed to be one class only.

Step Sis LuxMay 3, 201812 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xsvq8TlJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-03T20:56:45.646+0000)

Many mages like aery; Morg, lux are examples.

And many mages like phase rush.

There are no real "Class Dedicated" keystones; the keystones are meant to enforce a dedicated playstyle. More champions in a class might be able to use one keystone over another, but they werent designed to be one class only.

Lux is trash with aery tbh and morgana is more support

Pika FoxMay 3, 20186 votes

Lux is good with aery if you play a more supportive lux and use your shield a lot, and morg was designed as a mage. She gets shoe horned into a support role more often because she gets bullied out of mid lane nowadays and her CC and E let her fill a supports role nicely and just overall has better matchups bot, but shes a mage first and foremost.

Step Sis LuxMay 3, 20187 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xsvq8TlJ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-03T21:08:52.475+0000)

Lux is good with aery if you play a more supportive lux and use your shield a lot, and morg was designed as a mage. She gets shoe horned into a support role more often because she gets bullied out of mid lane nowadays and her CC and E let her fill a supports role nicely and just overall has better matchups bot, but shes a mage first and foremost.

Look my name, im otp lux i know how she works and i think comet is way way better than aery

Pika FoxMay 3, 20189 votes

Okay? Other people play champions differently. Hell, i still remember the days of the OTP AD Lux.

Luxana CrowngardMay 3, 20183 votes

Aery on Lux is like building magic pen on Garen. It's not as good as you think it is.

Pika FoxMay 3, 20183 votes

Lux has a shield, and aery is a guaranteed hit. Garen literally has no magic damage apart from ult (iirc its magic -> true). The comparison is literally apples to oranges.

Luxana CrowngardMay 3, 20187 votes

Why use Aery when you can land Arcane coment 100% of the time you hit an ability???

You are literally getting the same hit rate with aery as you are with arcane coment. On top of that Comet does more damage and is a nice meme of an aoe.

OatheSwornMay 5, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xsvq8TlJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-03T20:56:45.646+0000)

Many mages like aery; Morg, lux are examples.

And many mages like phase rush.

There are no real "Class Dedicated" keystones; the keystones are meant to enforce a dedicated playstyle. More champions in a class might be able to use one keystone over another, but they werent designed to be one class only.

I don't think they "like" Aery, they just have no better option. Did you just say and I quote, "There are no real 'Class Dedicated' keystones"?!?! Just look all the assassins with Electrocute. I mean, Conqueror is basically the go-to for all melee, auto-based champions and you are saying "There are no real 'Class Dedicated' keystones'?? No, wait a second. Are we even playing the same game? Can you seriously see a support Soraka going Conqueror and expect to do well? "Weren't designed to be one class only"? You are one funny guy mister. [zombie-brand-clap] [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Pika FoxMay 5, 20181 votes

Youre taking fringe examples that clearly and obviously make no sense and using it as an argument. Of course soraka is almost never going to run conquerer unless you wanted to run a bannana raka build for the lols, but that has nothing to do with the fact that runes are designed in a way that most champs can use multiple keystones effectively, and no runes are designed for 1 specific class and only that one class. ADCs can run electrocute, harvest, glacial, klepto, and more to great effectiveness, even though the first tree is considered the "adc" tree.

OatheSwornMay 5, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xsvq8TlJ,comment-id=000000030000,timestamp=2018-05-05T04:25:04.802+0000)

Youre taking fringe examples that clearly and obviously make no sense and using it as an argument. Of course soraka is almost never going to run conquerer unless you wanted to run a bannana raka build for the lols, but that has nothing to do with the fact that runes are designed in a way that most champs can use multiple keystones effectively, and no runes are designed for 1 specific class and only that one class. ADCs can run electrocute, harvest, glacial, klepto, and more to great effectiveness, even though the first tree is considered the "adc" tree.

Then you agree with me that there are such things as class-dedicated keystones? The Conqueror rune has a function in which it's more beneficial for melees rather than ADCs. For melees, Conqueror resets upon auto-attack but this is not so for ranged. This measure was put in place to prevent ADCs from getting this rune because they would be too strong with it. Would you see a Master Yi with Aery? Or a Comet? Likely not. How about Zed with Electrocute? I can tell you with 100% certainty that every single time a Zed would take Electrocute. Why? It fits his class perfectly. What about Katarina, Leblanc, Rengar, Talon, Kha'Zix, etc. Electrocute was literally made for assassins. Would you see a Jinx with Predator, Dark Harvest, Grasp of the undying, Aftershock, Guardian, or any of the Inspiration tree keystones? No. You can argue that ADCs can but is it the best option? Of course not, why get something like these when you can get Press the Attack, Lethal Tempo, or Fleet Footwork? Are you still in denial? This is basic knowledge. I specifically showed instances in where you can't just disregard it for "fringe examples" so do you agree or not?

Pika FoxMay 5, 20181 votes

Not every champ using every keystone does not mean keystones are class dependant. Certain classes may be more likely to use certain keystones on general, but that doesnt mean theres no options from other classes that would like to also like them (yi and i hear jhin like conqueror, so 2 adcs can use it)

OatheSwornMay 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xsvq8TlJ,comment-id=00000003000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-05T16:50:55.727+0000)

Not every champ using every keystone does not mean keystones are class dependant. Certain classes may be more likely to use certain keystones on general, but that doesnt mean theres no options from other classes that would like to also like them (yi and i hear jhin like conqueror, so 2 adcs can use it)

I think I'm just going to stop trying to explain this because clearly you either don't understand or don't want to understand. I've provided many examples and yet you still deny it. I give up.

saltranMay 3, 20183 votes

Only Aurelion?

[cass-cry]

xelakerMay 3, 20183 votes

boots can't use runes silly [sg-lulu]

TS MediaMay 3, 20183 votes

wait, what 3 dedicated keystones do assassins have? Because honestly, they only have 1... and that's electrocute.

Auz the RipperMay 3, 20181 votes

Dark harvest is really good on most assassins, the only problem being that is has to scale up over the game

And I think he was referring to predator as the third one but that 100% more a fighter rune.

TS MediaMay 4, 20185 votes

Dark harvest is a jungle only keystone. Having that in lane is akin to trolling. It'd take you 30+minutes to get the 150 stacks it takes to be anywhere near decent.

The Bearded BardMay 4, 20183 votes

The point of the new tune system is that people didnt have to copy paste rune pages. You can be your own person and use what works for you. Some viktors take fleet footwork, I go electrocute with Swain and ryze, some adc players take comet.

Experiment with things, create your own optimal rune page.

The Yetii RiderMay 4, 20182 votes

What would you suggest for a mage player other than damage? Mage players only want damage, that's all they've ever wanted.

SnugglePuggle94May 4, 20185 votes

No. Not just damage. They want some but they also want magic PENETRATION and mana regen. Not mana, not CDR, which we already have a shit ton enough of.

AptestMay 4, 20185 votes

"magic PENETRATION"

damage by another name

SnugglePuggle94May 4, 20182 votes

Ability power is our damage.

Penetration is more of our tank bursting stat- the extra stuff that BURNS after the original damage is through, helping our spells do more than just flat numbers.

Learn the difference please.

AptestMay 4, 20181 votes

what you should do is educate yourself.