Does Zed really need a slow?
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yeah so you could still build QSS against Zed
You cant build qss against zed anymore. His ult is no longer removed by its active.
Well, you CAN build it against Zed, it's just not effective. Magikarp used splash!
you didn't understand. He's saying you can build qss against zed because of his slow. It was a joke.
I hate Zed as much as the next guy but complaining about his slow is kinda ridiculous at this point.
The real question is, when has his slow ever been the problem? Whats the point of complaining about a part of a champion that isn't even the problem.
Yea I can see zed playing fine without the slow and no compensation buff but fully removing the slow, it would make him less slippery and he'd still have his damage idk why zed players are against it if it's removed in the future if it leaves him off too bad he'll get compensated anyways.
But you'll still have damage and it'll kick non-zed mains from your champ since it'll be a higher skill floor to get into. As for any compensation if really needed shadow's speed can be increased and duration increased by 1 second, otherwise removing the slow is a good move.
You'd be surprised how easy it would be to dodge Zed's combo (WEQ) if you didn't slow :P. (Since W cast, time, then q cast time, which is most of his damage, so if his E didn't slow it would be incredibly difficult to land if that enemy was competent at all.)
then fix any clunkiness issues after the slow is removed so he can be a cc-less heavy hitter smooth criminal ninja.
But the only nerf I care about seeing is zed's passive no longer works on minions otherwise I don't really care.
To fix the clunkiness you'd either have too, make Q go faster (Which would just make him insanely more oppressive), or make W go out faster, which would make his safety even better, and make landing the combo with E slow the same.
Essentially he would just feel more oppressive which is what the boards hate, the slow on his E is perfectly fine as i requires 2 abilities to even go off, and even then isnt' very much unless you manage to land both E's.
This is something that's been on Zed's kit for years now, I don't see the point in removing it now
It allows (good) Zed players to predict where you will go and use Q accordingly, otherwise, his combo would be spammy all the time.
Also, the slow stops being useful if grabs BoRK or a red buff, it's a good way to give him power that isn't overly oppressive.
As if Zed's dont spam the shit out of his abilities when they are off cooldown already?
Good Zed's do not. You're weakest when everything is on cooldown. If you're predictable with your abilities, you open yourself up to getting all-in'd (matchup depending).
Does Azir really need to be a lane bully, zone control, siege, hard engage, mid game carry, late game carry type of champion?
He's so fucking broken and the least fun champion to play against.. The people at Riot that continue to let him cancer up this game should be kicked in the dick.
Assassins don't need CC of any sort. It's a perk only a few have, and they trade something for the soft CC.
They have high damage output, high mobility, and usually some sort of gap closer. That's all they need to secure kills. Anything more creates an oppressive champion and counterplay against them is cut down severely.
For someone like Zed, who doesn't have to manage mana, I think it's even more unnecessary for him to have CC.
If I was a Zed main, and tired of seeing him banned, trading out slow would be ideal. Some people are always going to ban assassins, but Zed and Ekko are universally hated right now. You can't deny that there's not a problem.
Better question, does Zed even notice the slow half the time?
I think that all characters have a cc or some sort in their kit, so I think it was kinda just mandatory
[{quoted}](name=Derpasaurus Trex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xbHzXQE6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-06T16:43:16.870+0000)
I think that all characters have a cc or some sort in their kit, so I think it was kinda just mandatory
Katarina and Mordekaiser
[{quoted}](name=Tundra Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xbHzXQE6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-06T16:47:02.024+0000)
Katarina and Mordekaiser
Ezreal, Illaoi, Lucian, Nid,
[{quoted}](name=Clint Orris,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xbHzXQE6,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-06T16:59:59.939+0000)
Ezreal, Illaoi, Lucian, Nid,
But Illaoi has a slow
But Illaoi has a slow ability that removes you from the fight for 10 seconds
But Illaoi has an ability that removes you from the fight sends you to hell for 10 seconds
To touch on this, not all champions have cc but all champions typically have the tools in some sense to catch opponents that almost fall in the same category of cc. (Via cost wise to a champions kit)
Morde has a built in shield and a speed boost.
Lucian has a built in speed boost and a passive cool down reduction on his gap closer.
Ezreal has a built in cool down reduction to assist in lowering the cs on his gap closer
Nidalee has 2 speed boosts built into her kit along with a gap closer. Her gap closer distance increased with on the hunt triggered.
Katarina has a bit of a different kit in the sense where she has a damage reduction added into her e and the Greivous wounds debut attached to her ult, those are attributes that are in the kit to replace the lack of cc. The only real assistance to gap closing is her cd resets on kill or assist.
@op
Yes, zed should have a slow, but if you were to trade it out for something else what would you trade it for ?
Movement speed.
This is a problem similar to the old Phage. It's not a problem that Zed can catch up to someone he hits - that's good because he hit them and should get rewarded in some way. Phage is a healthier item now that it's a movement buff on hit instead of a slow on hit. The same could easily be done for Zed.
Hell, he could even get stacking speed buffs for hitting multiple champions. Wouldn't that be fun?
[{quoted}](name=Devo Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xbHzXQE6,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-05-06T18:18:11.792+0000)
To touch on this, not all champions have cc but all champions typically have the tools in some sense to catch opponents that almost fall in the same category of cc. (Via cost wise to a champions kit)
Morde has a built in shield and a speed boost.
Lucian has a built in speed boost and a passive cool down reduction on his gap closer.
Ezreal has a built in cool down reduction to assist in lowering the cs on his gap closer
Nidalee has 2 speed boosts built into her kit along with a gap closer. Her gap closer distance increased with on the hunt triggered.
Katarina has a bit of a different kit in the sense where she has a damage reduction added into her e and the Greivous wounds debut attached to her ult, those are attributes that are in the kit to replace the lack of cc. The only real assistance to gap closing is her cd resets on kill or assist.
@op
Yes, zed should have a slow, but if you were to trade it out for something else what would you trade it for ?
zed has his shadows and his ult
Zed has both his W and R to close the gap on his opponents, as well as the Phage passive for movement speed if he so chooses to build it. Not trying to say he doesn't deserve a slow, but he definitely has ways to catch enemies out.
Just gonna say you can't add the phage passive due to the fact that many listed champions get red buff, build iceberg, some might build
. Naming the items and what they do i feel ruins the discussion.
Other than that, ARGUE ONNN
build iceberg
hate it when champions build iceberg, such an unfair item
Makes Titanic totally unviable...
[{quoted}](name=Devo Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xbHzXQE6,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-05-06T18:18:11.792+0000)
To touch on this, not all champions have cc but all champions typically have the tools in some sense to catch opponents that almost fall in the same category of cc. (Via cost wise to a champions kit)
Morde has a built in shield and a speed boost.
Lucian has a built in speed boost and a passive cool down reduction on his gap closer.
Ezreal has a built in cool down reduction to assist in lowering the cs on his gap closer
Nidalee has 2 speed boosts built into her kit along with a gap closer. Her gap closer distance increased with on the hunt triggered.
Katarina has a bit of a different kit in the sense where she has a damage reduction added into her e and the Greivous wounds debut attached to her ult, those are attributes that are in the kit to replace the lack of cc. The only real assistance to gap closing is her cd resets on kill or assist.
@op
Yes, zed should have a slow, but if you were to trade it out for something else what would you trade it for ?
Mordekaiser's speed boost is VERY SITUATIONAL. And seeing as Mordekaiser is a frontliner... He rarely gets to truly utilize his innate speed enhancement.
Mordekaiser's speed boost is VERY SITUATIONAL. And seeing as Mordekaiser is a frontliner... He rarely gets to truly utilize his innate speed enhancement.
Mordekaiser is a marksman.
Kappa.
[{quoted}](name=Tundra Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xbHzXQE6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-06T16:47:02.024+0000)
Katarina and Mordekaiser
Of some sort. Kat has grevious, Morde has ult debuff
[{quoted}](name=Derpasaurus Trex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xbHzXQE6,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-05-06T18:46:39.622+0000)
Of some sort. Kat has grevious, Morde has ult debuff
Those aren't cc though, and you mentioned cc in your post.
[{quoted}](name=Derpasaurus Trex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xbHzXQE6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-06T16:43:16.870+0000)
I think that all characters have a cc or some sort in their kit, so I think it was kinda just mandatory
[{quoted}](name=Tundra Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xbHzXQE6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-06T16:47:02.024+0000)
Katarina and Mordekaiser
According to the wiki,
do not have any sort of CC
Even champions said to lack crowd control, like
actually have some form of weak, situtional CC (most of time, they are slows)
Nidalee can root neutral monsters? Where's that server u playing on, with a few patches delay? Want to play on it pls
The guy found it from the wiki, and that specific page has probably not been updated since the Nidalee changes rolled out. I'm really not going to fault him that much, especially since nobody talked about the Nid changes after they came out.
the slow is fine its his passive and free AD thats silly
Ironically, the AD passive is the least concern for me (and some other people). At least there's a reason for it.
Ironically, the AD passive is the least concern for me (and some other people). At least there's a reason for it.
are you a dragon
of the undead variety
of the undead variety
do you eat humans
Of course not!
It's just not a meal...
Of course not!
It's just not a meal...
can i go on your back
Ironically, the AD passive is the least concern for me (and some other people). At least there's a reason for it.
What is the reason? I really dont see why they threw free AD at him.
Remember that he's had it for quite awhile, so he's been balanced around it rather than being balanced without it first, then having it tacked on. Balanced as in the verb, since there's lots of debate about whether or not he's truly "balanced."
Moving on, I want you to imagine a scenario where Zed's W passive was removed and his base damage and scaling were adjusted to compensate.
If your first thought was "more early game power," then you're right.
Anyway, his W passive isn't nearly as annoying as other things in his kit. It gives him a bit more late-game damage (because who maxes W first or second?), rather than putting all of his damage upfront in the early game where he's already strong AF. It also makes him more level dependent than some assassins for his damage, making him even weaker if you can deny him levels (which is harder than other champions, unfortunately).
What's annoying about Zed is his poke, his energy, and for some people his passive and/or cooldowns. The W passive is honestly the least of my concerns.
Who said Zed was getting a slow?
From his W-E or something like that. He already has it.
Oh Wow, I remember now, I've actually banned Zed so much that I forgot about it. If I recall it was made so he could land his Q on far away targets since it gets really wonky at further ranges.
Remembering more I do find it a bit annoying at times since it makes it easier for him to escape and even turn around a chase.