Playing immobile champs in this game feels like shiit.

xxxMadLionxxx·Apr 21, 2019·117 votes·19,178 views

It's totally not rewarding. Hypermobile champs have just as much damage, CC, sustain and everything immobile champs have. There is no real penalty for there mobility. A lot of them don't even use mana.

Meanwhile, there is no reward for being immobile. It just feels like a handicap.

Hypermobile champs can engage and escape risk-free even if they made a bad decision. In most cases, even if you CC them mid-dash, they will complete the dash animation allowing them to still engage or escape anyway. This feels like shit as an immobile mage like morg because I'm not being fully rewarded for landed a slow skill shot like her Q.

Overall, there is no real clear reward for being immobile or using mana, its just a handicap.

110 Comments

CoffeeBarrelsApr 21, 201947 votes

This is a problem specially in the Toplane, mobile champions just have as much, if not more dmg output than an immobile champion, which is completely absurd imo.

SuicidePlankApr 21, 201952 votes

{quoted}

This is a problem specially in the Toplane, mobile champions just have as much, if not more dmg output than an immobile champion, which is completely absurd imo.

Kennen Vayne Riven You mean this cancer?

FSRERApr 21, 201917 votes

Jayce add him to the list

The E77Apr 21, 201914 votes

dont forget Jax Neeko Quinn Renekton

3TWarriorApr 22, 20191 votes

Jayce is mobile? he has a movement speed boost and a targeted dash, but it's not a long dash, on a decent cooldown and it has no defensive purposes

FSRERApr 22, 20191 votes

He does not need that ability to defend, he has the knockback one. He talked about kennen, who has: poke, burst, speed buff and is incredibly safe. That is why I added him. Oh and let's not forget about this buffed crap named Gnar

KoggyStyleApr 23, 20191 votes

oh you mean stunbot? yeah i used to be a gnar main but dropped him as he got squishier and squishier not fun having 4 top and your team wipes to a mf ult bot....

HateDaddyApr 21, 201925 votes

There’s not really a hyper mobile champ that’s going to get as tanky as a Nasus or Garen late game, even Darius. Being immobile is an intended weakness. The real issue is that damage in hyper mobile champions is typically too easy to apply, so the drawbacks of playing hyper mobile champs don’t have the same significance as the drawbacks of an immobile champ.

y0r1ckApr 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

There’s not really a hyper mobile champ that’s going to get as tanky as a Nasus or Garen late game, even Darius. Being immobile is an intended weakness. The real issue is that damage in hyper mobile champions is typically too easy to apply, so the drawbacks of playing hyper mobile champs don’t have the same significance as the drawbacks of an immobile champ.

Exactly, clearly a Nasus or Illaoi has far more damage and tankiness than a Camille or Irelia. OP is easily proved wrong, here's two examples where the immobile champions have clear strengths over mobile ones. Just to reiterate your point so hopefully more people see it, immobile and ranged champions just have easier ways to apply to apply their damage but they don't have more.

Romans VI XXIIIApr 21, 20193 votes

LOL, if u think illoa and Susan have more damage than cam and irelia then u r mistaken.

RagnaveilApr 21, 20191 votes

I mean, Illaoi has more early damage than both early. Why else would she be one of the best lane bullies for Top (shes obviously not that great because the meta doesnt favor her). Once you get to late, those two have more damage than her.

Romans VI XXIIIApr 22, 20191 votes

Shes a lane bully for being able to harass from a LONG range, while sustaining very well. She would only out damage either of them IF the VERY mobile Irelia or Camille stood still lol

TehNACHOApr 22, 20191 votes

I can kinda see Irelia but Camille doesn't exactly have the tools to consistently dodge Illaoi's harass. Her E is quite slow if she's not standing right up against a wall, and its cooldown is much higher than Illaoi's Q+E.

Romans VI XXIIIApr 22, 20191 votes

Maybe not to dodge, but can easily get out of an all in from iIllao. Then Turn around and reengage once Illaos ult is over.

And she can at-least harrase back at a decent range, unlike some Immobile top laners Garen Nasus Shen Trundle Volibear

3TWarriorApr 22, 20191 votes

illaoi actually has the HIGHEST damage potential in the game. she is quite literally built around the basics of the game: dodging skillshots and knowing when to engage or disengage, so if you forget the basics, she will destroy you

Romans VI XXIIIApr 22, 20192 votes

Potential Damage =/= Damage output.

You have to assume when balancing champions that both players are of equal skill or else your entire balancing philosophy is broken.

420 gramsApr 21, 20194 votes

Nasus and Garen don't have any stuns or hard cc. Nasus has big slow, Garen has his silence, but that's not enough to compete with a large aoe stun jax and irelia.

RagnaveilApr 21, 20191 votes

I mean, Nasus' Slow is nothing to scoff at, but the only reason why he isn't that great is because practically everything that is hypercarry can kill the shit out of him even if he focuses them.

Romans VI XXIIIApr 22, 20191 votes

Ever noticed that EVERY Hypercarry ALSO has High Mobility.....hmmmmmm coincidence? I Think NOT!

Romans VI XXIIIApr 21, 201910 votes

That's cause they dont have to build tanky to survive since they are so mobile, but then when u get hypermobile champions building beefy then they really become absurd.

Irelia Jax item 3748 item 3053

ApexInTheCircleApr 21, 201916 votes

2 of my favorite adcs Jhin and Ashe Feel clunky as hell to play as, Every other fucking game it's Tristana Vayne or Kaisa With their utility and hyper mobility it's nothing short of frustrating to play against. Not to mention Vayne is a brain dead champion now and her interaction with item 3124 compounds her issues.

I'm sorry to say this, and I've joined this bandwagon along time ago. If it's not flash and sparkly it's probably shit. This isn't the case for everything but it's the case for most. Vayne will continue to stay relevant as long as she has a prestige skin, same for kai'sa and same for Ahri. Riot knows who their cash cows are and they know what they need to do in order to keep that sweet sweet money coming in.

NaymlissApr 21, 20199 votes

I haven't played ashe much this season, but if you're having issues with jhin it's 100% on your positioning

Sir SaltarinApr 21, 20191 votes

Ashe is great on soloQ right now, and so is Jinx btw

RagnaveilApr 21, 20191 votes

Ashe Tahm Kench. One of the many reasons why Kench boi is being nerfed (rip).

Sir SaltarinApr 21, 20191 votes

Tahm has been a nightmare for balance in terms of pro play since forever

RagnaveilApr 22, 20192 votes

I mean, yeah, but at the same time he wasn't super godlike like he's been recently in pro.

church arsonApr 21, 20192 votes

Same. I just adore Jhin but he isn't safe at all. You can't escape when you realize you are losing a teamfight. Plus you have no chance of escaping if a Vayne is following you but Vayne can easily escape when a Jhin is following her.

Winning a 1v1 as Jhin against Vayne has literally nothing to do with your skill level. If you do win, it's because enemy Vayne is a shit player.

HappilyEverAfterApr 21, 20191 votes

my favorite thing right now is when u can be 7 0 jhin and a fucking 0 2 udyr can still 1v1 u jhin feels awful like a bunch of adcs never been a meta slave never will be so i just see my self playing this game less and less riven and vanye are always on my ban list

Sir SaltarinApr 21, 20191 votes

If you have problems in performing as Jhin you are the one to blame, the champ is fine.

HappilyEverAfterApr 22, 20192 votes

yea im sure ur unranked aram only playing ass knows so much peaked d2 last season pretty sure i know how to play jhin when i have been a adc main for 4 years now shut ya mouth*[slayer-jinx-wink]*

Sir SaltarinApr 21, 20191 votes

Imagine playing Ashe Jhin and thinking that other champs are buffed to sell skins LMAO

Look the champs you are playing please

ApexInTheCircleApr 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=titAEhhy,comment-id=00050002,timestamp=2019-04-21T22:49:48.313+0000)

Imagine playing Ashe Jhin and thinking that other champs are buffed to sell skins LMAO

Look the champs you are playing please

Jhin sells skins because of his theme, which is easy to play off of and the effects he has are easy to make visual and sound effects for. Same with Ashe and that's because she's a legacy character. Plus when looking at Vayne, everyone and their mother knows she's a tier 1 super shit in your cereal slug bug no slug backs champion. Also Jhin and Ashe they may have alot of skins but they're not as FOTY like kai'sa, Vayne and OFC Ahri. Ahri has been FOTG since her release. Riot plays favorites that's 100% a fact, I can't remember if it was S5 or 6 but they buffed Leesin before worlds just so he would see play.

Romans VI XXIIIApr 22, 20191 votes

I can't remember if it was S5 or 6 but they buffed Leesin before worlds just so he would see play.

Thats every season since his existence. Might be a slight exaggeration, but it really isn't at the same time. For several years there in a row Lee Sin got buffs for the Worlds Patch, alot more than just 1 season.

NaughtyWordApr 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

2 of my favorite adcs and Feel clunky as hell to play as, Every other fucking game it's or With their utility and hyper mobility it's nothing short of frustrating to play against. Not to mention is a brain dead champion now and her interaction with compounds her issues.

I'm sorry to say this, and I've joined this bandwagon along time ago. If it's not flash and sparkly it's probably shit. This isn't the case for everything but it's the case for most. Vayne will continue to stay relevant as long as she has a prestige skin, same for kai'sa and same for Ahri. Riot knows who their cash cows are and they know what they need to do in order to keep that sweet sweet money coming in.

This.

ADC's really break down into two main categories.

Those with high damage and mobility, and those with just high damage.

1.0 ADC and 2.0 ADC. Tristana Vayne Ezreal Draven outclass say Sivir Ashe Varus in every way. Vayne in particular has every single advantage. Mobility, hard cc, out of control damage, invisibility, everything. She has literally no weakness or downside compared to most other ADCs.

l MrD lApr 21, 201911 votes

i always saw it as a triangle

Damage mobility and utility (things like CC)

you cant be good in all 3 but can be good in a max of 2 sections

for exmaple if you you have high mobility and high damage then you shouldnt have good utility at all ( e.g Katarina)

if you have so much CC and damage then your mobility should be low (e.g Malzahar)

and if you have mobility and utility then your damage should be low ( Rakan)

I believe anything who has a good amount in each section is broken and should have 1 part of the section nerfed .. for exmaple Pyke ... high damage high mobility and strong utiltiy a lot of champs can be like this such as Ekko and LB .... (i just notced im naming assasins a lot)

but yeh mobile champions need to either have good utility or damage to go with the mobility not both at all

Pandemic PunchApr 21, 20199 votes

A lot of these hyper mobile champion in the top lane also have more survivability than a full tank champion on top of all of those things.

IronmadApr 21, 20198 votes

I love playing Blitzcrank, but grabbing some champs, like Ezreal , is shit. I mean it even says in game description that the grab stuns. So shouldn't that stop Ezraels jump. Same if you grab Lux while she's doing her ulti, it doesn't interupt her.

SillaeApr 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I love playing Blitzcrank, but grabbing some champs, like , is shit. I mean it even says in game description that the grab stuns. So shouldn't that stop Ezraels jump. Same if you grab while she's doing her ulti, it doesn't interupt her.

Her ult isn't a channel, you can still grab a Vel'koz or Karthus. And while, yes, it's annoying as hell that Ez still jumps when he's grabbed or rooted, it's a blink, not a dash, and once the animation starts it will finish.

IronmadApr 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Her ult isn't a channel, you can still grab a Vel'koz or Karthus. And while, yes, it's annoying as hell that Ez still jumps when he's grabbed or rooted, it's a blink, not a dash, and once the animation starts it will finish.

Ye that is anoying. Since it clearly says he stuns when he grabs them and a stun should interupt but it doesn't.

Twilit AngelApr 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Same if you grab while she's doing her ulti, it doesn't interupt her.

Lux R is a casted ability, not a channeled ability. Example: You can interrupt Karthus R because it is a channeled ability. (unless he's in his passive ofc.)

ScibraApr 23, 20191 votes

They are stunned during the grab pull animation only, I think.

KoggyStyleApr 23, 20191 votes

Tristana dont forget dis bich

P0IS0N IVYApr 21, 20198 votes

I feel like this is a symptom of the "too much damage flying around" issue. It doesn't matter a whole lot if immobile champs have utility because everything dies too fast and death is the best CC. It doesn't matter if an assassin or literally anyone at this point has no CC because they can kill someone fast enough before any sort of retaliation can occur. It's crazy how fast people pop these days. It seems like it's just a matter of who presses all their buttons faster.

The whole melee vs ranged problem is more apparent than before because ranged does too much damage before you can get to them.

VerxintApr 21, 20196 votes

The biggest issue I find with mobility is the safety. Mobile champions can constantly look for plays on you without putting themselves at as much risk as you would have to if you attempt to punish it.

5050BSApr 21, 20195 votes

Also when MOST immobile champs now have everything as a skill shot and Champs like Yauso, Irelia move so fast you cant hit them. Even point and click can be hard to get on a Yasuo who is dashing in a minion wave.

Lesley AOApr 21, 20194 votes

{quoted}

It's totally not rewarding. Hypermobile champs have just as much damage, CC, sustain and everything immobile champs have. There is no real penalty for there mobility. A lot of them don't even use mana.

Meanwhile, there is no reward for being immobile. It just feels like a handicap.

Hypermobile champs can engage and escape risk-free even if they made a bad decision. In most cases, even if you CC them mid-dash, they will complete the dash animation allowing them to still engage or escape anyway. This feels like shit as an immobile mage like morg because I'm not being fully rewarded for landed a slow skill shot like her Q.

Overall, there is no real clear reward for being immobile or using mana, its just a handicap.

You mean a champ like Pyke, with a hook, invis movement speed healy thingy, a dash with a stun and a true damage AOE ult which ignores shields and resets is the kind of kit giving you trouble when you're playing with say, an Ashe, Jhin, Jinx or any other immobile champ for that matter?

Man, if only someone at Rito thought about that before they overloaded a champ with new skills just because it's 'cool', this would still be a game I enjoyed playing. Starting to feel more and more like smoking with a lung infection. You know it's toxic and it will just make you feel worse, you just can't put it down.

In short; you are right and Rito is giving you the middle finger.

King I RatApr 21, 20193 votes

It all boils down to how high damage is. The game has turned from a Moba to a weird reactionary fighting game and playing a character without mobility is like playing a character without a block. A lot of leagues problems would be fixed with the removal of things like lethality and weird stacking proc-abilities. Look at someone like for example Rengar who can make use the following effects, all within the spawn of a half-a-second:

Q W E Electrocute Sudden Impact Duskblade Proc Coup de grace

It's a joke, damage is so front loaded on so many characters which makes playing immobile champs into a chore as you repeatedly tell yourself "If only I was playing another character, I wouldn't have to deal with this shit".

Building defensive is no longer an option since resistances are rendered useless with all these penetration items and getting things like Banshees Veil won't really help you since on every rotation there is like 8 instances of damage and Banshees will only block 1 of those. Zhonyas and GA are options sure, but they are so boring when they are the only options available. It's boring for you since you have to rush them and they are your only option and they are boring for your opponent since once you acquire them, they are no longer able to be useful since all they have going for their character these days are one-shotting you.

I main Azir, and I can tell you, every other match-up is legit just a race to see if I can get Zhonyas/Stopwatch before 6 cause if I don't, I just automatically lose most of the time or I completely lose map pressure which now when the game is so geared towards the early game is straight up just an ff @ 15.

NovaPhApr 21, 20193 votes

I was trying to make this argument to my team, but they don't really seem to get it. I played Urgot verses Fiora and my team was screaming at me that I was a ranged character and that I should win that matchup...but it's really not that simple when she can turn the ranged matchup into a melee matchup with one dash and some good positioning. Urgot has great options for countering melee, but the specifics aren't really what I'm addressing in this case. I just wanted to explain that it feels weird to play a low-mobility character against a high-mobility one because it becomes very hard to press any kind of advantage while they can basically move twice as fast as you do.

The real problem for me is that I wouldn't want a game where you have ONLY high mobility or low mobility characters, so I wouldn't know how to solve it. If you gave everyone high mobility then it would remove the fun fantasy of playing a slow and powerful character (ie: Sion, Urgot, and Garen...despite them all being able to increase their speed somehow with charges...you get what I mean.)

TheGreatNinxApr 21, 20192 votes

play vegiar. all the mobile champions try to juke ya but you just put down the rage cage and hit'em with q or w or both + r watch salt role in. though his start part of game is boring since you're basically nasus just trying to stack while someone is trying to poke you out

z63XnLCMwXApr 21, 201913 votes

{quoted}

play vegiar. all the mobile champions try to juke ya but you just put down the rage cage and hit'em with q or w or both + r watch salt role in. though his start part of game is boring since you're basically nasus just trying to stack while someone is trying to poke you out

Kassadin My go to pick against veigar.