There needs to be trade offs for point and click hard CC

metaworldpeace10··1 votes·446 views

I'd like to preface by saying point and click hard CC is not toxic for the game at all, but there needs to be significant trade offs for having a 100% reliable point and click CC. For example, we have Irelia who usually maxes e first in lane, allowing her to have a magic damage nuke, while also stunning the target for 2 seconds. Not only are you CCed by a hard slow or a hard 2 second stun, you also have to endure the nuke behind it. You are literally punished by beating Irelia. This mechanic does not have sufficient counterplay and is NOT fun to play against.

Now, on the other end of the spectrum Taric is a fine fellow with an unavoidable point and click stun, but the kicker is that his stun hardly does any damage and is used mainly for the CC effect rather than the damage. You could say that Taric has a decent trade off. He gets to have the 100% unavoidable stun, but sacrifices overall burst damage.

Vi Ryze Irelia are the worst offenders.

None of these champions really sacrifice any damage for point and click hard CC. Irelia punishes you for beating her. Vi's ult is an instant gap closer, hard cc ability that spells death for anyone getting ulted. Ryze, if played correctly, can effectively kite you to death while you not being able to touch him. Obviously Ryze isn't that strong right now due to nerfs, but if he gets any buffs.. he will become a big issue once again.

The balance team seriously needs to make a roster wide sweep and work through all the hard point and click CC abilities and give them trade offs.

TLDR: If you have a point and click CC? Sacrifice your damage. If you have a skill shot CC? Do more damage.

5 Comments

MrPerson102 votes

As a note, it's generally accepted that Irelia's max sequence is dependent entirely upon the lane. Given that most current top lane picks have ridiculous sustain, her W is maxed first more often than not for the sustain and true damage (you simply can't argue with true damage) and her E used for the utility of the stun, maxed second.

And you forgot Lissandra, IMO she's 10x worse than Ryze, Irelia and Vi combined.

metaworldpeace101 votes

{quoted}

As a note, it's generally accepted that Irelia's max sequence is dependent entirely upon the lane. Given that most current top lane picks have ridiculous sustain, her W is maxed first more often than not for the sustain and true damage (you simply can't argue with true damage) and her E used for the utility of the stun, maxed second.

And you forgot Lissandra, IMO she's 10x worse than Ryze, Irelia and Vi combined.

Agreed, I did forget Lissandra, but I think you get the point, point and click hard CC with damage behind it is pretty toxic and unfun to play against.

MrPerson102 votes

With the sheer amount of burst damage that comes with it from AP mages like Lissandra Ryze, I agree - their hard CC should be nerfed. Hard. Especially Lissandra because god forbid you want to play anything that uses melee range against her, you're screwed.

metaworldpeace101 votes

{quoted}

With the sheer amount of burst damage that comes with it from AP mages like Lissandra Ryze, I agree - their hard CC should be nerfed. Hard. Especially Lissandra because god forbid you want to play anything that uses melee range against her, you're screwed.

Ya, I agree. If lissandra's ult damage was nerfed, I'd be fine with her hard CC. Hard cc helps keep hyper mobile champions like Zed Ahri Kalista locked down, but she shouldn't be able to one shot you because of the ridiculous amount of burst she brings.

MrPerson101 votes

Honestly, I just think she needs a numbers nerf or a change to her W. Having 2 forms of hard CC (one on a fairly short CD with next to no mana cost) + massive burst damage + medium levels of mobility throughout the entire game is, if you ask me, rather unhealthy.

I understand the point of it is to counteract the insanity of having supermobile champs everywhere (incoming; Bronze 5 kids complaining about Zed Nidalee LeeSin Leblanc) But is it really necessary that she has so much click to win AoE CC to lock down entire groups, an effective gap close/escape and some insane Q harass? I think not.

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