AP Bruisers don’t have specific itemization because AP items already offer everything they need.

HateDaddy··16 votes·7,468 views

It is really no different than AD bruisers. Very seldom will an AD bruiser build all AD bruiser items, let me lay out the bruiser items so we can have a visual demonstration of what I mean:

item 3078 (this isn’t necessarily a bruiser item but it is one many bruisers build) item 3053 item 3748: probably the quintessential bruiser item item 3022 item 3071 item 3091 let’s just throw this in there because it really has no other place item 3026 it’s arguable whether or not this is a bruiser item, i would say not but it is an item bruisers tend to build item 3156 item 3074 we should consider this a bruiser item only because it’s appealing to melee champions only item 3025 maybe more of a tank item but bruisers do build this

What do these items have in common? They offer a combination of HP, resistances, and damage, to enhance survivability. In reality, no AD bruiser every truly builds 5 of these items. What they typically do is go two, maybe 3 of these items at most, and either go into a tanks item set to greatly enhance their durability; or they go into an AD assassin/ADC’s item set to greatly enhance their damage. The logic is that building 5 bruiser items won’t greatly enhance the stats you need most so you trickle into other stats that will give your greatest need depending on the game (do I need more damage or durability?).

AP itemization already covers these bases because many AP items already mix in HP, resistances, and ability power in their items. And like AD bruisers, AP bruisers have the option of picking up Tank items to enhance their damage (item 3001) and durability in one. Many AP items like item 3027 item 3116 item 3151 and a mixture of item 3157 and item 3102 do the same thing for AP bruisers that the AD bruiser items do for AD bruisers. Typically an AP bruiser will build 3 of these at the most (see Rumble and item 3116 item 3151 item 3157) and they’ll make the decision if they need to enhance damage by going items like item 3089 and item 3135 (but at the cost of survivability) or enhance durability and go into tank items (and sacrifice damage). The difference is that many of these AP bruisers will also have tank-like utility while also having innate defensive tools that also scale with HP/AP (shields, %damage reduction, heals, etc). The very nature of AP itemization covers the needs for the few AP bruisers that exist. The concept of AP bruiser is also both hard to define and balance because there is a fine line between an AP bruiser and a mage (again, see Rumble who could honestly be classified as both; see Ryze for a champion who could be both but obviously leans towards a mage). It’s the same as AD bruisers and AD assassins having a fine line separating them.

There is no need to make “AP itemization more diverse.” It already is and given the nature of AP enhancing a larger variety of stats (enhancing durability, damage and utility while AD only enhances damage and in some cases durability), AP itemization doesn’t really need to be more diverse. It does it’s job and because the philosophical approach to bruisers is a moderate damage dealer/moderate damage absorber; there’s no need to develop items to do this for AP bruiser - AP itemization already does.

51 Comments

Ralanr13 votes

Saying an AP bruiser can build a tank item to augment their damage

Most AP bruisers I see won’t ever consider building an item that doesn’t offer even 1 AP. I think this is because unlike AD bruisers, AP can only be gained through items while AD can be gained through leveling (though how inefficient this is depends on the champions scaling).

Not that I disagree with you.

HateDaddy6 votes

{quoted}

Saying an AP bruiser can build a tank item to augment their damage

Most AP bruisers I see won’t ever consider building an item that doesn’t offer even 1 AP. I think this is because unlike AD bruisers, AP can only be gained through items while AD can be gained through leveling (though how inefficient this is depends on the champions scaling).

Not that I disagree with you.

AD bruisers can build IBG, which is what I meant between comparisons but I didn’t specify that. Bruisers AD does scale but it doesn’t scale well on its own since they still need to build items to enhance it. And plenty of AP bruisers can go 1-2 AP items then into tank: champions like Gragas and Cho’Gath can do this. In fact, many tanks can elect for AP bruiser builds since tanks tend to scale with AP.

Ralanr3 votes

Oh I agree, I just don’t think that happens often because people who play AP bruisers want to rival mages in terms of AP they have.

LilxPaprika1 votes

so ap bruisers want to not be ap bruisers? reminder AP bruiser is like a cross between fighter and juggernaut/tank.

I don't want to nag but this really would solve our problems: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/xmTcAE1g-ap-bruisers-donot-have-specific-itemization-because-ap-items-already-offer-everything-they-need?comment=0003

TehNACHO1 votes

Wasn't there a period of time when Cass used that item? The main reason she stopped was because of the range nerf, but I'd assume this is absolutely no problem for AP Bruisers especially considering its strength against other APs.

Pika Fox2 votes

Viktor + frozen gauntlet or frozen heart.

Hell, any AP bruiser can run AA > defensive items and get AP off the detensive items, as most defensive items youd want give mana.

Step Sis Lux13 votes

I think people dont have any problem with having "good"build as brusier, but with that we have twice more AD items than AP and basically every ap champion has almost same build

LeftyRaydy10 votes

I keep explaining this to people but get downvoted. AP itemization sucks and AP champions do not have Item Identities because almost every champion builds the damn same. AP items are basically just stats and the passives sucks compared to equivalent AD items. item 3285 and item 3003 are basically the same damn item with different passives. item 3157 basically a requirement on all AP champs (Even though I do not like this item) item 3020 item 3165 The only full items with Magic pen

What AP bruisers lack most that AD bruisers have is (among other items) ---------> item 3071 <---------- I mean you could have all the AP in the world but 1item 3065 oritem 3194 and your damage is worthless. The only ap champ that has this ability is Kayle in her passive and why she is so strong late game.

Lovelle3 votes

Riot tried to give AP itemization good tank nuking options before and it didn't go too well. Most people weren't even aware of it either.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Blackfire_Torch

I don't know if you were around for the Blackfire Torch meta (on TT and Dominion, the above is just the nerfed version) but when all AP champions get tank nuking options, everyone dies before they get the chance to even retaliate. Pretty much every melee champion without %damage reduction is completely invalidated no matter how much defense they build. Couple this with how absurd physical damage gets late game and no one can survive anything, not even tanks. It's a very degenerative process where everyone just ends up rushing damage and the champions that can deal damage the most reliably are the only ones that get picked.

Most AP champions tend to have more utility (or innate sustain) to make up for the lack of potential sustained damage. For balance purposes, it's honestly best that it stays this way.

LeftyRaydy1 votes

{quoted}

Riot tried to give AP itemization good tank nuking options before and it didn't go too well. Most people weren't even aware of it either.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Blackfire_Torch

I don't know if you were around for the Blackfire Torch meta (on TT and Dominion, the above is just the nerfed version) but when all AP champions get tank nuking options, everyone dies before they get the chance to even retaliate. Pretty much every melee champion without %damage reduction is completely invalidated no matter how much defense they build. Couple this with how absurd physical damage gets late game and no one can survive anything, not even tanks. It's a very degenerative process where everyone just ends up rushing damage and the champions that can deal damage the most reliably are the only ones that get picked.

Most AP champions tend to have more utility (or innate sustain) to make up for the lack of potential sustained damage. For balance purposes, it's honestly best that it stays this way.

So I was around, but I did not really play TT or Dominion. Here is the Passive of the Blackfire Unique: Deals 20% of target champion's maximum Health in magic damage over 4 seconds and increases all subsequent magic damage taken by target by 20%. 90 second cooldown.

Yeah this isnt cool and not something I want on any champion and is not what I am talking about. first this is an active ability I am specifically talking about this passive for BC but an AP version.

UNIQUE: Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion Cleaves them, reducing their armor by 4% for 6 seconds, stacking up to 6 times for a maximum of 24%.

This would be a great item if they decided they actually want AP fighters/Bruisers, because that is basically the item all AD bruisers need (garen, Darius, Wukong, and so on). There would be nothing wrong with something like this on AP users except probably Ryze so they might have to make it a Melee only item.

Lovelle1 votes

None of the AP bruisers are particularly struggling right now though. I'm completely okay with champs like Gragas, Elise, Diana and Ekko not having access to an AP version of Black Cleaver. Hell, I would probably build it on Nautilus every game if such an item existed. I have no doubt it would break any semblance of balance this game has left.

LeftyRaydy1 votes

They don't have an identity that is the problem and become nothing but Damage with a little health. Rumble is an AP bruiser but you still build him with a Rabadons and try to get out as much damage as possible. Look at Diana meant to be an AP bruiser but ends up being an AP assassin cause her damage is stupid strong. These champs dont have the itemization to become true bruisers like AD bruisers.

Nyarlathοtep

Most AP champions tend to have more utility (or innate sustain)

Ap and sustain. Choose one.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Ap and sustain. Choose one.

Plenty of AP bruisers, the champions I am speaking of directly, have forms of innate sustain. See Gragas, Cho’Gath (an AP bruiser or tank), Vlad (a mage but honestly he has a bruiser playstyle in teamfights), and a few other mages. You’re right, sustain isn’t a prominent feature of APs typically but it does exist. Not to mention, most AP bruiser champions are likely to take Grasp of the Undying.

Nyarlathοtep

I cant speak for gragas but cho is surely neither. He has too much cc for a bruiser. On the other hand he has too much dmg for a tank. Cho is an abomination (ha) when it comes down on his role. Vlad is a battle mage (which is the closest role an ap bruiser will even be). And no. The other ap champs (excluding tanks) that have sustain are swain, cass, morgana and ahri (in all of them its extremely situational). Lissandra has too but its tied to her ulti. Does it exist? Yes. Is it correct to say ap tend to have innate sustain? No.

most AP bruiser champions are likely to take Grasp of the Undying.

Rumble goes comet. Vlad doesnt touch resolve. Swain might go resolve. Gragas goes domination. Diana goes either sorcery or domination. Cho (if you count him as an ap bruiser/battlemage) does go for grasp, but he does so to increase his max hp.

Source opgg.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

I cant speak for gragas but cho is surely neither. He has too much cc for a bruiser. On the other hand he has too much dmg for a tank. Cho is an abomination (ha) when it comes down on his role. Vlad is a battle mage (which is the closest role an ap bruiser will even be). And no. The other ap champs (excluding tanks) that have sustain are swain, cass, morgana and ahri (in all of them its extremely situational). Lissandra has too but its tied to her ulti. Does it exist? Yes. Is it correct to say ap tend to have innate sustain? No.

Rumble goes comet. Vlad doesnt touch resolve. Swain might go resolve. Gragas goes domination. Diana goes either sorcery or domination. Cho (if you count him as an ap bruiser/battlemage) does go for grasp, but he does so to increase his max hp.

Source opgg.

Vlad has sustain Swain has sustain Gragas has sustain Cho has sustain

Diana and Rumble hace shields to reduce incoming damage; it isn’t a form of sustain but it does help keep them in lane.

I am not talking about all AP; it is absolutely fair to say most AP do not innately sustain. However, AP bruisers can totally take grasp (Gragas mid goes domination/top goes grasp).

I don’t think you can make a distinction of Cho as a tank or bruiser. He’s a problem nobody talks about: Riot constantly blurring the line between bruiser and tank (see Poppy): champs with insane durability mechanics but absurd damage to boot.

Nyarlathοtep

Out of the many ap champs, only 4 have true consistent sustain, 2 (and a couple more) have sustain in the form of shield.

However, AP bruisers can totally take grasp (Gragas mid goes domination/top goes grasp).

And yet again according to opgg its extremely rare (and might be not optimal).

I don’t think you can make a distinction of Cho as a tank or bruiser

Considering his ulti, making cho a true tank its extremely difficult and unlikely.

Poppy absurd damage? Oh fk it, she is irrelevant with the OP.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Kayle's passive doesn't do anything though. You might not realize it since you don't play Kayle, but her damage against tanks is fucking ass compared to AD carries.

LeftyRaydy3 votes

uh late game Kayle Shreds all. Edit: I use to play Kayle a long time ago (back when the korean build kayle with hurricane first came around to NA).

Her passive isn't super strong only up to a max of 15% Armor and MR shred which is still very strong when you add on hit items like Nashors.

AirKingNeo3 votes

15% pen is garbage right now and it doesn't add up when you go onhit items.

Just play Kayle right now into a tank and wait until you're both at 4 items and you don't have Void Staff or first item and they rush MR. You're fucked and deal 0 damage.

LeftyRaydy2 votes

{quoted}

15% pen is garbage right now and it doesn't add up when you go onhit items.

Just play Kayle right now into a tank and wait until you're both at 4 items and you don't have Void Staff or first item and they rush MR. You're fucked and deal 0 damage.

sure I didnt say it was spectacular, but its the kind of Item I want like BC which goes to up to 24% armor shred. Plus you could build kayle with item 3020 with item 3916 or item 3165 to counter tanks. I know its not optimal, but it would shred them with her passive 15% plus 33 flat penetration.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Flat pen doesn't counter tanks.

LeftyRaydy2 votes

{quoted}

Flat pen doesn't counter tanks.

Listen I don't know why you always argue with me, but lets take a look here. lets say the enemy gets a spirit visage ok and they have 100 MR. you get Nashors, sorc shoes and Oblivion orbagain not the best build but let's take a look at the math) 15% shred from Kayles passive so 15+33 flat pen = 48 penetration. so pretty effective as is, but lets look a forgotten item that may work for you in vsing enemies with Heavy MR games.

item 3091 would actually be a disgusting pick up as well especially if your lane is a tank that does AP damage.

Passive Basic attacks (on-hit) grant 6 magic resistance and reduce the target's magic resistance by 6 for 5 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times for a total of 30 magic resistance.

So if you have item 3115 item 3091 item 3020 item 3916 in the early game you will be able to bypass 15% + 63 MR. So for that 100 MR example again you would bypass a total of 78 MR after 6 hits if you get item 3135 that now is 40% + 15%+ + 63 which would be 40+15+63 meaning you could now bypass 118 MR. now add item 3124 and you will be shitting on enemies so quickly they wont know what to do. But this is just something to counter very MR resistant teams and not meant for every game, but this should help.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Except you have to take suboptimal items for Kayle for your theory.

Orb of Obliv sucks on Kayle. Sorcs are less optimal. Wit's End is a terrible item.

ez mental boom1 votes

Because AD has far more functions than AP

AD scales autos AD scales abilities AD can crit AD can prefer attack speed AD can prefer AD

AP scales abilities and items AP can prefer AP AP can prefer............. other

HateDaddy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=ez mental boom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmTcAE1g,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-11-05T22:11:08.672+0000)

Because AD has far more functions than AP

AD scales autos AD scales abilities AD can crit AD can prefer attack speed AD can prefer AD

AP scales abilities and items AP can prefer AP AP can prefer............. other

You are so biased it hurts. You intentionally framed your argument in a way that deceptively overrates AD. In other words, AD scales only damage (AP can also scale with everything you mentioned except crit). Let’s rephrase this properly without ignoring functions of AP and AD:

AD scales damage AD scales lifestel AD, in some cases, can scale individual shields

Now:

AP scales damage AP Scales shields - depending on the champion, these shields can be used on oneself or allies. AP scales heals - depending on the champion, these heals can be used on oneself or an ally. AP, in some cases, can scale resistances/%damage reduction.

In other words, AD is used for individual gains while AP can be used for both individual and collective gains. The natures of the stats lend themselves toward this. It is not a question of whether one is stronger than the other because they do entirely different things. Comparing them is misleading and frankly, foolish.

ez mental boom1 votes

[deleted]

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ez mental boom,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmTcAE1g,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2018-11-05T23:26:49.787+0000)

Not reading your essay lmao you're not worth my time

I've been playing primarily Ekko this season. This is an RGM/ARAM/norms account that got Kha out of a box

(edit) ah, nevermind. This is a thread by none other than the self-proclaimed "master baiter" himself, HD

But I’m not baiting, im being serious. This was hardly an “essay”

FCJAAAAGOOOO4 votes

Rod of Ages is freaking bad. It's a frankly pathetic item now despite zero stat changes between last season and this season. Build it if you like losing games. 800g worth of health, 1200g worth of AP, a smidge of mana and sustain. Cost: 2700g. What a joke in this early-game-is-everything meta.

Furthermore AA is bad except for ranged mages that build Tear. Don't even get me started on Manamune. They really need to rework these outdated mana items.

Automated Riven1 votes

Most efficient item in the game when fully stacked. It's a late game investment.

FCJAAAAGOOOO2 votes

It's a late game int because it is only 2k worth of combat stats, none of which synergizes with eachother, for 2700 as a finished item., on average before many games are decided it might be 22~2300.

They have Stormrazor/BC/etc. and are sieging lanes and you just bought RoA.

Automated Riven1 votes

I'm not saying that your wrong that it isn't good ATM. But it not bad because of the stats it gives. It's bad because it doesn't fit in an early game meta unless you get fed and buy it while continuing to snowball.

KirbyCake3 votes

I think the main problem is that MR is just far too strong which makes playing ap feel like shit in general. MR items are WAY too efficient due to differences in how armor and MR scales.

Also add in the fact that mages get outscaled late game and have no late game items other than death cap which is highly inefficient and you have a class that completely relies on their kit to get anything done.

But it's pretty much an early game snowball meta with most games immediately decided before late game so that part isn't nearly as bad.

nGio3 votes

Why are you even talking about AP bruiser itemization? The problem isn't the lack of AP bruiser items, it's the lack of AP bruisers. We already had so few, and then Riot decides to turn Sej into something else, and Zac is a fucking abomination that has no identity now.

Zac was the perfect example of an AP sustain bruiser, with his highest win % being top lane, and functioning and building similar to an AP Darius. And now what is he? He isn't a bruiser, and he sure as shit isn't a tank, with no passive or active armor/res buffs, no shielding, and no damage mitigation. He's a support, who happens to jungle at a below average level, and can't be properly balanced.

Sej and Zac used to have more choices as bruisers, but they got 'streamlined' or 'normalized' or whatever the fuck they're calling it now, so that LC$ could have more cc heavy support damage sponges, and viewers could say "oh that one stuns things, and that other one kills things". The game is so dumbed down at this point, that sub classes are ignored or erased. We just have stunners and killers now, so it's nice and brain dead for the average preteen Fortnite player who still isn't playing or watching this game, regardless of the bastardizing Riot does with their reworks.

Shablagoo3 votes

This is common with more AP champions compared to ad in general. If we look at Ad champions from attack dmg carries, ad assassins, and ad brusiers you can see that they all need different stats.

ADC: Crit, attack spped, and Ad Assassins: Ad, Lethality, and CDR Ad Bruisers: Ad, durability( mr, armor, and health), and cdr

If i got something wrong please add them, but ap doesnt have then much of a distinction.

Burst mages: AP, CDR, and Pen Poke mages: AP, cdr, pen, and more mana AP Brusiers: Ap, durability, cdr sometimes, and mana AP Assassins: AP, CDR on some, and pen.

In truth I generally dont see much uniqueness with mages in terms of stats at all, this doesnt mean the champions are not unique, for example kayle, teemo, and Azir are very unique in the fact that they need attack speed, but I dont think that warrants much uniqueness. So in general of course certain champions will be unique, but it doesnt mean that the stats they use will be different.

Lovelle2 votes

item 3230 is a fighter item now. I used to build it on Trundle nearly every game until they changed the recipe to 3 item slots, along with a pickaxe. No bruiser wants to build a pickaxe.

I don't know why they removed the option to switch out Ravenous with Titanic Hydra any time we wanted. That kind of versatility was really nice to have.

Automated Riven2 votes

Bruisers and fighters are basically the same.

Linna Excel2 votes

But HateDaddy, as you mentioned AD bruisers get item 3748 which gives them AD, HP, and waveclear that scales off of HP. This bonus wave clear is based on autos so it doesn't use mana. The closest thing that AP champs have is current Liandries. It helps waveclear a little, but it costs mana and is slower than autoing depending on how well the AP champ can spam spells. Now add to that there's no TF for AD champs... nothing with AP, the sheen effect, and HP. LB doesn't make you tanking and frozen fist doesn't give you any AP.

I think you are very much correct in that there are plenty of items to support AP bruisers. However I think the issue might be that there is no "it" item. There's no item 3077+item 3136 or item 3057+item 3136 for them to build.

HateDaddy2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmTcAE1g,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-11-05T20:28:54.110+0000)

But HateDaddy, as you mentioned AD bruisers get item 3748 which gives them AD, HP, and waveclear that scales off of HP. This bonus wave clear is based on autos so it doesn't use mana. The closest thing that AP champs have is current Liandries. It helps waveclear a little, but it costs mana and is slower than autoing depending on how well the AP champ can spam spells. Now add to that there's no TF for AD champs... nothing with AP, the sheen effect, and HP. LB doesn't make you tanking and frozen fist doesn't give you any AP.

I think you are very much correct in that there are plenty of items to support AP bruisers. However I think the issue might be that there is no "it" item. There's no item 3077+item 3136 or item 3057+item 3136 for them to build.

That exists mainly because many mages and even AP bruisers do not rely on auto attacking as much. Let’s not pretend Trinity is giving as much HP as the Jaurims fist items. Also, AP champs will almost always have better and safer waveclear than AD bruisers.

Linna Excel1 votes

That's a good point about the game as it is. However, considering how fundamental autos are to the game shouldn't AP champs be making more use of them?

Raid Boss Morde2 votes

Most of the AP bruisers can't even build the good "AP bruiser" items. You're not going to see Rumble Mordekaiser Vladimir build item 3027 item 3001

We also don't have an AP Black Cleaver, so we can't deal with resistances that easily unless we're going full AP, in which case, we'll just get item 3135 , which isn't a bruiser build. I don't see Darius Garen Camille Fiora Jax ect. build Last Whisper items.

item 3151 is also really weak against tanks that stack magic resist unless you build lots of magic pen (oh hi item 3135 )

All we need is an AP Black Cleaver, then we can build tank after one or two items like most bruisers.

HateDaddy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raid Boss Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xmTcAE1g,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-11-05T20:52:03.515+0000)

Most of the AP bruisers can't even build the good "AP bruiser" items. You're not going to see Rumble Mordekaiser Vladimir build item 3027 item 3001

We also don't have an AP Black Cleaver, so we can't deal with resistances that easily unless we're going full AP, in which case, we'll just get item 3135 , which isn't a bruiser build. I don't see Darius Garen Camille Fiora Jax ect. build Last Whisper items.

item 3151 is also really weak against tanks that stack magic resist unless you build lots of magic pen (oh hi item 3135 )

All we need is an AP Black Cleaver, then we can build tank after one or two items like most bruisers.

I don’t know how I feel about an AP black cleaver. I feel like the nature of AP would lend it to being heavily abused my mages, so there would need to be checks on it that would discourage mages from building it if it existed. Also, magic resist values do not tend to get as high as armor values on champions, (champions typically build more armor than MR), so I’m not sure one is really needed. AP bruisers will have pretty decent utility too, so in reality we need to ask if AP bruisers should really have %MR shred available to them when they’re already incredibly disruptive. The idea of Rumble or Vlad with an AP BC terrifies me.

Automated Riven1 votes

The problem isn't mages with an ap black cleaver. It's tanks with an ap black cleaver. Just saying. That's why a ap conqueror didn't go through. Tanks break ap bruiser itemazation.

Ralanr1 votes

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/657/039/7fa.jpg

Yeah, that's generally a big problem with a lot of tanks, specifically ones with mostly AP scalings (AKA: Most goddamn tanks). Maokai and Sejuani (at least old Sejuani) in particular come to mind. This is generally why I like how Ornn has his scalings all over the place, he isn't meant to scale well with any particular stat, so crazy off meta builds become less rare.

Granted I'd like to see more tanks with AD scalings like Sion and Poppy but I know those can be problematic as well.

Automated Riven2 votes

Tbh I want an actual ap item overhaul. Not the bullshit they keep doing. Give back your high ap builds and have them differeentiate that build from a 40% cdr build, which would nessecitate having a lower value of AP. So 40% cdr will come with ~40% less ap but you get a 40% increased uptime on spells.

Cdr builds should synergize with late game DPS mages like swain, Cassio, ryze, karthus, anivia and so on. Whereas high raw damage/no cdr builds should synergize with champions who want to burst. Like lux, leblanc, Kat, and so on. 1shots should not be possible without being fed with a 40% cdr build and the choice you make should be high burst or high dps.

There should be other changes along with it but that would go a bit towards making ap itemization feel like you have more choices instead of cookie cutter builds on all champions.

Moody P1 votes

also that except for recent designs like Irelia ap bruisers have much better kits

Vekkna1 votes

What is the AP bruiser rush item then? Whatever it is, it doesn't have 20% CDR or the power spike of Trinity or BC.

Everyone just takes for granted how broken AD itemization is. If you made an AP analogue to Trinity or BC, everyone would just soil themselves from shock. Heck, even just replacing the AD on trinity with 40 AP would completely change the meta.

Meep Man1 votes

AP Bruisers vary so greatly that is pretty hard for there to BE one item they all pick up. Like...

Amumu Chogath Diana Ekko Galio Mordekaiser Nunu Rumble Singed Swain Vladimir

What kind of item would everyone here want and ALSO wouldn't just be picked up on any Tank with AP Scaling to turn themselves into damage threats?

Vekkna1 votes

I pretty much described it already. An AP trinity would work well on most of the ones lacking a clear rush item. An AP Cleaver with a unique passive shared with either Void Staff or Orb would work wonders on the rest of them.

When it comes to poaching, you might argue that Brand, Zyra, Cassio, Ryze might poach an AP Cleaver, but they would be making a pretty substantial trade-off in burst damage by losing either Void or Orb.

You think there aren't already tank-level durability/cc champs dealing plenty of damage?

Aatrox Gragas Chogath JarvanIV Kled Nasus Sion Warwick Urgot

Something something divers and juggernauts not tanks, something something. Are we really worried that AP bruiser items could possibly turn Leona into Warwick? It's just not a rational fear to have about APs when ADs have been in fear-is-reality territory for at least 2 years.

Automated Riven1 votes

Mumu, galio, and Cho gath are tanks. And are part of the reason ap bruiser items cannot exist. If they were able to purchase items that let them do enough damage as well as shred the nessicarily resists and be decently tanky they would be busted due to their cc. Fighters and bruisers are not supposed to have that much cc.

More from Gameplay

More by HateDaddy