Why is there a need for everything to get compensation buffs when nerfed? (Ardent Censer)

AirKingNeo··4 votes·608 views

Ardent Censer is losing it's healing, but gaining 10-15% more attack speed, +10-15 onhit damage, AND now applies the buff to yourself if you heal/shield your ally.

Why make this change? it's going to be just as overpowered. Riot seems to have a need to compensate every time something is nerfed. Bramble Vest broken as fuck? +300 cost, but also +5 Armor. Still going to be broken as fuck and make bruisers suck, but hey at least you auto lose at 1200 gold rather than 900.

So instead of doing their job of balance, they're just making random changes to make it seem like they're doing their job and taking up space on the Patch Notes, so they don't look empty, so it appears they're doing their job. Reality is that they aren't.

But then again, you have to remember: Riot is perfectly fine and content with the current meta. I am not joking. No one should be laughing. We should be scared shitless that a company has no fucking clue on how to even balance the game fundamentally.

24 Comments

ZephyrDrake2 votes

they even said that they would remove something from the passive of ardent's and put that power back elsewhere in the item. This is not a "random change" this was something that they told us they were going to do. There is something called "shifting the power of kits/items" you don't need to just lower the numbers or remove numbers. Another type of nerf is making it so that something takes longer to build or reach a certain stage of power (like making certain champions put more points into certain abilities instead of leaving them as 1 point wonders).

AirKingNeo1 votes

Except ADCs will still hit late game at 2 items and be very overpowered.

You seem to forget the very terrible fact that Riot is fine with the current meta.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

Except ADCs will still hit late game at 2 items and be very overpowered.

You seem to forget the very terrible fact that Riot is fine with the current meta.

late game at two items... sure dude if you say so. Also what if Riot is fine with the current meta? other than assassins and a few oddballs here and there most other champions are actually very much viable. Could ADCs be a bit weaker? yes and this does just that since they cannot just regain all their HP like nothing now they actually have to invest in lifesteal early if they want to do the same things they are currently doing which will slow down a lot of builds. It will also nerf supports but not to the point where everyone will just switch back to tank supports, it'll just make it so that those tank supports stop building this item and actually doing what they are supposed to be doing. Are there other items that could potentially be too strong (cough item 3109 cough)? yes! and they will get addressed in due time

AirKingNeo1 votes

No, Riot literally stated they are fine with the meta.

"Here's the thing, I do think communications would help here, you'd be able to understand exactly why we're okay with Pantheon sitting on "54%". If we talked more pro-actively about our goals and plans, maybe we could've dropped a line that we're taking a look at Bramblevest. On things like Cho, we'd get cases were we double-down nerfs on items and champs, no need to go there. To be honest, from all the things I'm seeing you talk about, it could be bounced back to how the meta shifts a lot and not everything will be relevant all the time." -Luqizilla (Rioter)

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

No, Riot literally stated they are fine with the meta.

"Here's the thing, I do think communications would help here, you'd be able to understand exactly why we're okay with Pantheon sitting on "54%". If we talked more pro-actively about our goals and plans, maybe we could've dropped a line that we're taking a look at Bramblevest. On things like Cho, we'd get cases were we double-down nerfs on items and champs, no need to go there. To be honest, from all the things I'm seeing you talk about, it could be bounced back to how the meta shifts a lot and not everything will be relevant all the time." -Luqizilla (Rioter)

this doesn't say anything and i have zero reason to believe that you didn't modify this for your own gain. If you actually managed to quote the entire thing then just post a link to the thread where they said this. Once again, what if they are fine with the current meta? you not told me a single thing about why this is a bad thing other than complain that Ardent isn't being gutted

AirKingNeo1 votes

I can link you the actual comment if you like. Literally cut the first and last sentence so no one can lynch me. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/70axdj/915_developer_update_from_riot_hashinshin/dn251jr/

The current meta is really bad and there's no excuse for the incompetence that lead to it. Is that not a good reason for why being fine with it is unfathomable?

I wanted Ardent gutted? No, I clearly wanted Ardent to be balanced and that means it needs to be nerfed, not kept the same power, nerfed.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

you have no said a single thing about why the meta is bad and all you are constantly complaining about an item not being gutted. Sorry but you don't want it to be balanced you want it to be gutted and have no idea what removing the healing aspect of the item does for the item apparently

AirKingNeo2 votes

You see, if you know anything about writing, you'll find that if someone says they're fine with something absurd, and then refuse to complain or act of something else, you can you say that they're fine with it. It makes sense once you think about it.

Well now you're making up shit. I don't appreciate the harassment, but I will say that it seems you forget how broken Ardent is and how removing the healing is not enough. Then again, you lost the argument after you tried to claim I had a bias against to want it gutted when there's absolutely not proof of that. Look at the champions I play.

Ars3lyn1 votes

Ok so here the thing here Neo, If you think about this long and maybe slightly hard, Ardent censer was strong for the attack speed, and on hit lifesteal, now at first I was complaining about how strong it would be now since it is like this.

Ardent Censer - changed

Passive Attack Speed bonus changed to 20-35% based on target's level, from 25%. Passive changed to 'attacks deal an additional 20-35 damage on-hit (based on target's level) from 'attacks drain 25 health on hit'. New effect: Unique passive's attack speed/on-hit bonus now applies to the caster when used on an ally.

(here the link: https://www.pcgamesn.com/league-of-legends/league-of-legends-patch-719)

So I thought about this for a while and remember that all of it was in magic damage, meaning the on hit is kinda useless, but the attack speed is the only thing that is strong, the new effect is actually a very good idea, it allows more interaction for the support, they already changing the passive support champions to do a lot more than just sitting back and heal them, now since they do healing and damage through healing others, that makes the passive support more active, making them come up closing into battle being exposed to help win the game, at first this would not be a good idea to start since Janna change allows her to be more aggressive now, but in team fights she now gonna be more expose as well as some other champions hence the forever heal Soraka (my main). This champion can now interact better not making this item so one-sided, I do agree about maybe nerfing maybe some AP or the mana regen, but I'll be straight to say this is a good step and it would be nice to have a passive support to have more aggressive-like style when needed to. Remember that this item would force the support to expose them into fights that would most likely kill them to use that steroid attack speed and on-hit effect to the fullest. On paper, this may sound very very broken, but since the sustain is removed (ht one thing I was hoping it would stay instead of damage) the ADC can't simple gain life back as they have to sacrifice farm to go back to get lifesteal or heal up (if their support is Janna or something that is not Soraka). So it's not broken in the battlefield, hence most ADC champions late game usually gain 2.3 attacks speed or something by late game, the main thing that effective is the increase heal and On-hit damage.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Doesn't really matter if it wasn't seen or used before because the same could be argued for Ghostblade Cleaver Lucian a year ago.

Saint Smash2 votes

Riot doesn't understand that the whole point of a nurf is to bring a characters power down.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Saint Smash,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xgk5nAyH,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-09-18T22:15:02.027+0000)

Riot doesn't understand that the whole point of a nurf is to bring a characters power down.

you don't even know what a nerf is supposed to be

Saint Smash2 votes

If you say so Captain. XD

BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votes

Lol no it's not, 40 on hit damage isn't the end of the world.

Especially since supports do no damage and isn't really attacking anyone during a fight.

AirKingNeo1 votes

That's almost double the damage.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votes

And? It's still minuscule

AirKingNeo1 votes

60% more damage onhit and 10-15% more attack speed is huge.

Do you seriously not know how broken Ardent currently is? They could take away just the heal and it would be good. They could cut the AP in half and it would be good.

Crett1 votes

i disagree personally. you're assuming quite a lot about their design process.

though i do fear the incoming resurgence of MasterYi Kayle with that huge damage boost

AirKingNeo1 votes

Yi + Kayle was never good.

Crett1 votes

really? it seemed people were climbing pretty fast with that combo last i heard. kayle would jungle and yi would top, and kayle would show up at 6 and they'd all in HARD

AirKingNeo1 votes

And? Anywhere beyond gold it sucked.

No one cares about gold and below.

Dark Nephthys1 votes

The healing from item 3504 is what made the item OP and the main reason why people are always abusing it. If that was removed then the item would become weak (just rem how little the item was used back before the healing was added to the item). There is a difference between nerfing an item down a little, and basically gutting it by removing the main reason why it's bought. They are removing the OP part of the item and amplifying the item in another aspect to make the item have a niche.

Now it's not going to be the insane must buy item that all supports buy to help their carries avoid having to buy life steal early because honestly...You didn't really need to buy life steal until way later on thanks to Ardent + Bloodlust and that is why ADCs started abusing item 3031 item 3087 item 3094

YerroFever1 votes

I'm thinking their thought process is that adding the buff to the person who gives the shields is a way to make supports more relevant in a fight? I mean, depending on who the support is, they're still relevant even after their shield or heal is cast. Utility is built into their kit. I'm not 100% sure making supports more relevant than they are is going to solve any problems. I think it might cause more problems.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Buffing the item in general is a bad idea.

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