Riot, you cannot ignore this preseason. Bruisers are a joke.

AirKingNeo··80 votes·4,786 views

You said you couldn't balance the game because of worlds, then said you couldn't balance the game because you're preparing for preseason. Now it's preseason and you're doing jack shit. Bruisers have been shit for the past 3 years, and you don't seem to care a single bit. You'll probably just bring them up to their shitty state of season 6 and 7 and say, "We did our job."

Enough is enough. ADCs don't need to nuke everyone (but tanks) in 4-5 auto attacks, tanks don't need to be unbreakable walls that only an ADC could break, and supports don't need to make people immune to damage. Mages don't need a majority of their items to be garbage and then Morellonomicon to be overtunned, but then Malzahar be aids everywhere. Top lane doesn't need to be a shit hole where tanks and anti-bruisers auto win against actual bruisers.

This is preseason; this is when you fix this shit. Is your excuse, "We don't have any reliable data because it's preseason?" Then when will you make changes? During the season when you claim you can't change shit because of competitive play? People haven't forgotten when you said ADCs needed to be broken for competitive. Even competitive players are done with this shit.

Why can't Riot say that ADC builds are too cheap and ADCs are too effective late game? Why can't Riot say support shouldn't make people immune to damage? Why can't Riot say tanks should be bad in the laning phase because they outscale bruisers with teamfights?

Just look at next patch. Sona gets fucking murdered because they can't fix Summon: Aery, but Teemo gets to still abuse it. Ezreal gets a love tap while he's still rocking massive play and winrates. Zoe doesn't even get touched despite breaking multiple games. Press the Attack gets nerfed while bruisers get nothing to compensate for it, and they still need buffs even if it wasn't nerfed. Maokai gets the smallest nerf while he's still got one of the highest base AD and base attack speed in all of top lane AS A TANK. Riven is getting buffed despite being balanced (high playrate, low-average winrate, 'high skilled'). Darius barely gets help despite all the nerfs they've slapped him with over the past 2 years despite Darius not being viable since before the Mage Update, and even being half-assed then. Fleet Footwork gets a crit interaction despite everyone knowing that isn't healthy nor makes it viable on anyone but ADCs. Lethal Tempo gets buffed, but everyone knows it's just a keystone to contest with PtA to see who can deal more damage, otherwise be only viable on Kayle who uses it to shove minion waves during the laning phase. Not even a single Pantheon nerf. Resolve and sorcery are still broken.

Is it so hard just to make the simple changes that would fix the game? Objectives die too quickly, turrets cannot hurt tanks, ADCs spike too quickly and too hard, powercreep on tanks is through the roof, supports exponentiate the issue of ADCs.

item 3094 item 3087 Passives now disable the other. They do not interact. item 3094 item 3087 item 3085 +200 Cost item 3046 +300-400 cost item 3508 Cooldown reduction changed to flat 20% item 3031 item 3508 item 3072 item 3812 -5 AD item 3006 -5% attack speed Twitch W no longer applies passive over time, applies 2 stacks when the spell hits instead.

item 3193 Cost increased to 3000. This is the premier tank item; it should cost close to one. item 3194 Passive reduction reduced to 15%, +50 HP item 3075 Nerf it. If it sucks vs ADCs, then buff it against ranged only. Doesn't need to totally negate bruisers. item 1054 It's supposed to be a counter item to Pantheon, Teemo, Rumble etc, instead, tanks just abuse it against bruisers. Fix that. Maokai Nerf his base AD and base AS, then stop his permahealing. Ornn whatever the PBE has. Chogath Stop his permaslowing and permahealing. Shen Shouldn't half health people in 3 autos.

Akali Heimerdinger Pantheon Teemo Kennen Nerf into unviablility until you fix their kits from auto winning vs melee champions Jayce No longer gets bonus armor/mr in melee. Knockback occurs faster and slow reduced, so you fight back once he does his combo. Malzahar Just nerf.

item 3748 item 3053 -200 cost (over 10k gold for a 3 item bruiser build) item 3071 Armor pen increased to 30% (5% per stack), now disables the passive 'Last Whisper' so ADCs can't abuse it hard. item 3153 Changed to be not shit on bruisers. Maybe make it double stack Cleaver IF melee. item 3022 Melee only. item 3124 Made not shitty on melee. item 3156 Either stack with Sterak's (Graves can't abuse it anymore, Sterak's is melee only) or buff it in a way that makes it better for bruisers and no one else (like reduce base shield but give it a health ratio). Riven DO NOT BUFF TENACITY: Reduces displacements/airborne/knockups.

item 3504 item 3107 item 3222 item 3114 Less heal/shield power. item 3107 item 3190 Actives changed to have the same name. You get one or the other. item 3050 What the hell is the paragraph item of this Lulu Rakan nerfed

Precision Press the Attack -Reverted: 3rd attack (including bonus damage) is increased by exposure damage -Solo effective: Exposure only applies to the user of the keystone, not their entire item.

Fleet Footwork -No longer has a crit ratio. Base healing increased. -Ratios no longer adaptive (hybrid champions are the only AP champions who would use this, Adaptive ratios just forced them out of it).

Triumph -No longer gives bonus gold (no super snowballing). -Healing no diminishes by 3% on additional recent takedowns (15% -> 12% -> 9% -> 6% -> 3%).

Legend: Bloodline - Changed to 1% lifesteal + 0.7% per Legend Stack. (Make it actually useful)

Buff the following: Overheal, Cut Down, Last Stand.

Sorcery Nerf the fuck out of that poke bullshit (Scorch, Comet). Nerf Manaflow Bead for making champions never run out of mana literally. Phase Rush should only give 30% slow resist for ranged.

Resolve Nerf the overtunned shit like Grasp.

Domination Probably replace Dark Harvest for a bruiser keystone. Dark Harvest isn't viable for laning because you need to trade, and Dark Harvest is imbalancable for jungle because farm jungling isn't balancable (Sated Dervourer, Feral Flare).

Inspiration Future's Market: No longer puts you in an additional 50 debt whenever you go into debt beyond the first (otherwise it's just a noob trap).

Magical Footwear: No longer reduces when you get free boots based on takedowns (it's already a free 350 gold). Make it 9 minutes if it sucks.

Turrets: -Reverted: Minions deal 50% damage (from 60%) to turrets -Turrets gain 150/200/250/300 more health based on their tier. -Perfect Precision: Turret shots begin to pierce 15% bonus armor every consecutive shot (max 45%).


Do this and you fix a majority of issues in the game. Otherwise, people will continue to say the balance team is a joke and I'll keep saying Bruisers in 2017 L U L

142 Comments

GigglesO13 votes

I want morde to be looked at with the other bruisers too.. he is in a similar class of champions.

Mordepool7 votes

{quoted}

I want morde to be looked at with the other bruisers too.. he is in a similar class of champions.

I'm sure if more counterplay was added to Marksmen he'd be fine. As it is he just gets stat checked from range. With no counterplay

Aatrox Mid 1v512 votes

complains about bruisers being weak

"dont buff riven"

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/993/875/084.png

AirKingNeo9 votes

Yeah because Riven is fine. The rest suck.

Who knew exceptions existed.

Aatrox Mid 1v54 votes

Yeah okay can you tell me who exactly youre refering to when you say "the rest" so I can tell you why youre wrong?

AirKingNeo6 votes

Irelia, Jax, Darius, Kled, Aatrox.

You know, the rest.

Even7 votes

{quoted}

Yeah because Riven is fine. The rest suck.

Who knew exceptions existed.

riven is an assassin at this point, I haven't seen a riven build a tank item since 2015

McFatal4 votes

{quoted}

Yeah because Riven is fine. The rest suck.

Who knew exceptions existed.

you're joking if u think riven isnt on the list of needing help when it comes to this anti bruiser meta.

or maybe you're just biased.

Zaghyr6 votes

Riven is not fine. Lethality Riven is fine, if not overtuned a little bit. Bruiser/Fighter Riven needs some serious help.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Then buff bruiser items at that point.

Apocalypsic2 votes

Riven sure as fuck isn't "fine" right now.

She suffers just as all other melee fighters do. Even if you blow flash and perform the perfect combo on their back line nowadays it's :Nami R, Raka R, Sona R, Lulu R, Rakan R, redemption, locket, exhaust, etc...

Adrianaries doesn't even want to play her right now because of the state she's in.

So yeah you've got some good points but it's pretty obvious you're biased against Riven.

All she has is damage and now that she can't pump out enough and can't do it better than even some of the fucking tanks, what's the point of playing her?

AirKingNeo1 votes

Riven main no opinion /s

Jokes aside, Riven is viable and fine and only suffers because everything that is already putting all bruisers down. Why should Riven be buffed just for Riot to say, "No, bruisers are viable! Look at Riven!" instead of fixing the issue?

Apocalypsic2 votes

Wait but didn't riot already themselves come out and say Riven isn't doing well..?

AR URF4 votes

[{quoted}](name=free software,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEmEjnjc,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-12-04T02:06:00.319+0000)

complains about bruisers being weak

"dont buff riven"

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/993/875/084.png

Riven and Darius, ESPECIALLY DARIUS are the exception. It's almost like why build bruiser anymore? I'll go full tank garen with dark harvest because I know bruiser items have lost their touch.

AirKingNeo6 votes

Darius is shit though and has been.

Sujiren11 votes

I agree with a lot of points, especially with bruiser itemization being too expensive and adc itemization being too cheap. Tanks do way too much damage right now, prime examples being how Maokai currently outdamages Darius in the laning phase, which is straight up bullshit if you ask me, and on pbe sunfire cape nerf is basically getting reverted, so tanks will be able to shit on bruisers even harder.

Somehow Riot thinks that its okay for adcs to have the cheapest core build, while having best scaling. Somehow Riot thinks its okay for tanks to auto win lane vs bruisers, and also outscale them in teamfights, they even gave them op rune to destroy towers, so basically tanks > bruisers at every point in the game.

Great balancing guys.

DarthFantasia5 votes

I agree that adc items are too cheap, but I disagree that bruiser items are too expensive. In order to decrease the cost of bruiser items, their stats would definitely need to be reduced. Ex. Black Cleaver and Steraks

ADC items definitely need to be nerfed though, along with AD assassin items

nGio16 votes

[{quoted}](name=2 Lazy 2 Type,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KEmEjnjc,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-12-04T02:48:01.788+0000)

Tanks do way too much damage right now

No. Ornn and Maokai do too much damage right now. Poppy, Nunu, Zac, Galio, Tahm, Mundo, etc are struggling, and most of them have struggled for a while. Tank itemization is absolute shit, so the class has to rely on the 'chosen one' that Riot will buff next. New release/reworked tanks do well, but the class itself gets stomped out due to situational passive/active items that don't synergize with most of them.

Bruisers/Juggernauts still have it the worst, but let's not lie about tanks being op, because I never seen them in the jungle anymore, the only one I see bot is Leona, and when they are seen top, it's only the couple who are overbuffed and broken as fuck.

ChocolateDor1 votes

Bruh you havent seen a malphite. I just hit malph 43 dmg with vayne(103 crit) with thirster/statik/infinity/hexdrinker and he killed me in 1,88.

Ralanr7 votes

There’s a lot of information missing in this scenario.

Iota Theta2 votes

{quoted}

There’s a lot of information missing in this scenario.

Oo! Oo! I love this game!

looks up match history

Not a single Vayne match. Hmm....

I’d guess...since only one AS item, probably didn’t kite very well, oh, and only one auto will not be enough especially for a Malphite since no true damage proc.

Your right, too much info missing.

ChocolateDor1 votes

Perhaps you looked the match history of the wrong acc. I've 4 accounts 2 of which challenger.

All I was saying is that malphite's dmg should be nerfed.

Iota Theta1 votes

{quoted}

Perhaps you looked the match history of the wrong acc. I've 4 accounts 2 of which challenger.

All I was saying is that malphite's dmg should be nerfed.

Bold claim. But I have no reason to actually believe your claim at your word.

Faceroll Tactics6 votes

damage builds make you squishy who would've thought.

Pampered adc player.

Nyarlathοtep9 votes

Nerf the fuck out of that poke bullshit (Scorch, Comet)

WAIT WAIT HOLD ON A SECOND. Nerf scorch and COMET? We are talking about the rune that deals less dmg than aa, has cd and has no scaling at all? And about comet that again deals less dmg than aa AND can miss? Damn board's community has fallen way down....

Anonagon3 votes

You obviously don't understand how impactful these runes are. Scorch is almost disgustingly broken right now on any poke champion. Think of it not as "less damage than an auto lul", think of it as +50% base damage on your first ability hit every so often, because that's what it actually is.

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

Comet? Maybe. It is a keystone i mean but the dmg is low and avoidable. Scorch on the other hand is picked just because the other two are a joke. The other requires you to be in the river, and the other to be AT LEAST after 30 minutes. Scorch is still a joke and whoever wants it nerfed needs to rethink his whole life.

Anonagon4 votes

No, Scorch is legitimately one of the most impactful runes in the entire game. I know the numbers look tame on paper, but its actually ridiculous how much it contributes to damage output early for poke champions, and it more than makes up for its lack of scaling based on how much it snowballs lanes.

Tuplamela8 votes

That list makes me think you are salty Jax main like Hashashin. I mean, yes Jax is trash tier with the games being as short as they are. But you also cannot expect to be able to pick a hard carry top lane AND have an easy lane.

To make Jax / Irelia better the games need to be longer (and maybe adc items need to cost more).

Kyunsei4 votes

{quoted}

That list makes me think you are salty Jax main like Hashashin.

That list made me think he was Hashashin himself.

SilentBomber2 votes

{quoted}

That list makes me think you are salty Jax main like Hashashin. I mean, yes Jax is trash tier with the games being as short as they are. But you also cannot expect to be able to pick a hard carry top lane AND have an easy lane.

To make Jax / Irelia better the games need to be longer (and maybe adc items need to cost more).

As a Jax main,i do not expect to have an easy lane.But i do expect to have a glimpse of hope in every game to be able to trade back.It's not nice to feel miserable,when i see in champions select screen my opponent picking HEIMERDINGER.Not because i think i will lose my lane but because i will be totally sure that i won't be able to farm or trade with him.

When Bruisers have no MR,and ap/ad ranged champions get the same stats as melee from runes that means bruisers are likely to lose against those matchups.

Although Hashinshin is a bit salty,you can check his video explaining his opinion for top laners.I believe he makes some sense.

There is no need for adc items to get more expensive.Bruisers itemization is the most expensive in the game right now.Thus,it's a given for bruisers to be an disadvantage.They got no resistances against ranged champions and their items cost hell a lot.Thus,late game champions like Jax are in a difficult spot.

philbergeron7 votes

Preseason is intentionally unbalanced. I'm not sure how people haven't figured this out, yet.

AirKingNeo16 votes

Preseason The game is intentionally unbalanced.

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

Funny that this intentionally unbalanced preseason feels EXACTLY like the entirety of s7. :thinking: Maybe and that's just a bold statement from my side it's the game itself and not preseason when the same shit that was overpowered before is even more overpowered with entirely new mechanics.

Simpumba6 votes

I think also a huge problem is games are SUPER short, the average game is around 26minutes long, that says something. There's practically no catch up mechanics unless the enemy team is braindead also.

I just got back to the game 2 weeks ago, and I cant play my love veigar, as by the time I get my items the games over. I'm just tired of it.

Sohleks6 votes

I heavily agree with the sentiment with this thread. I don't play bruisers even if they were my type. Maybe just Olaf sometimes because he cheats the rules of being melee for as long as his ult oh and that resetting base dmg can let him roleplay as a full tank not that he doesn't scale well with extra deeps though.

It's just funny watching most changes to the game over the past 3+ years chucking non-support melee in a deeper and deeper and deeper pit and they do jack squat about it. Like at this point CAN they significantly fix it? It'd be like a major reform that'd have to happen which would upset the status quo. Its gone well past a joke at this point

Meanwhile you have phreak rationalizing tanks have higher winrates because they are part of a better team comp. Gee. I wonder. Why. They are better. For teamcomps. (also doesn't help tanks are ez mode in comparison. easier to pick up and play. and more useful professionally) Well if tank are mandatory to a teamcomp and so are adc and, well, the more tank the merrier is often true then I guess bruisers have no place on a non troll 5 man team ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Just the same boring shit everygame of melee wall of tank pawns and their privileged backline carries for most non troll games since season 5 started. It was easy to see how this'll all play out. Easy to predict how privileged a champion will be on design alone. This season definitely has potential to change that though. Not that there is yet any evidence Riot really cares to dramatically change the boring ass typical meta game and are not just tossing fighters a bone

Top laners need to have fun too. And have consistently viable "teeth" to use that isn't range or one exceptional pick soon to get nerfed

Ralanr5 votes

I agree with most of these actually though I have some concerns.

Tenacity on displacements/knockups/airborn: frankly I feel this opens a can of worms coding wise that Riot doesn’t want to deal with. I’m not talking about for abilities designed primarily to knock you up, but for abilities that displace you simply because you’re standing on the creation area (Trundle pillar, Yorick wall, Ornn pillar, etc) which have a very small displacement effect. It’s also a straight nerf to champions like Darius who rely on his pull length for his combo.

Honestly I’d rather make it so you cannot keep airborn targets in the air with more knock ups. Make a target immune to other displacements while displaced (but not other Hard CC like stuns) so teamfights don’t turn into juggle matches.

Thornmail: it’s already getting nerfed as a bramble rush so it shouldn’t be a problem anymore.

Grasp: I don’t see why this needs to be nerfed for tanks. Most tanks work better with aftershock. Nerfing it would actually make it less desirable for bruisers/juggernauts which I believe it’s there for in the first place.

AirKingNeo1 votes

It’s also a straight nerf to champions like Darius who rely on his pull length for his combo.

Could make certain effects like Darius's pull (instant-quick CCs) to be unaffected by tenacity.

Thornmail will still invalidate bruisers. You try to splitpush, they buy thornmail, and now you're unable to fight them and then they get to spam abilities on the minion wave and stop your push.

No bruiser or juggernaut wants Grasp. It's tanks using it or Aftershock and being very broken. Most top lane tanks are taking Grasp, and we all know Grasp is very overtunned.

Ralanr4 votes

{quoted}

Could make certain effects like Darius's pull (instant-quick CCs) to be unaffected by tenacity.

Yes because making specific exceptions to effects clearly makes the game easier to read.

Thornmail will still invalidate bruisers. You try to splitpush, they buy thornmail, and now you're unable to fight them and then they get to spam abilities on the minion wave and stop your push.

So it’s bad that thornmail will be useful later game considering it’s actually trash and people mainly go for bramble?

No bruiser or juggernaut wants Grasp. It's tanks using it or Aftershock and being very broken. Most top lane tanks are taking Grasp, and we all know Grasp is very overtunned.

No. You keep saying it’s overtunned. I’ve heard no one else say grasp is broken. And I cannot think of why any juggernaut would not want grasp as it gives them more sustain and and infinite scaling in a class that trades a lot.

I don’t understand why you think tanks would take grasp over juggernauts. If it’s because there’s a lack of AD, sorcery and domination have lesser runes that provide adaptive power.

So why does a juggernaut not want grasp?

AirKingNeo1 votes

Thornmail isn't that trash though. Think of this way, it deals whatever reflect damage it deals plus 40% of all healing from basic attacks reflected as true damage. Now it sounds like a big deal.

Because Grasp doesn't give damage and bruisers don't have HP scalings except in Titanic and Sterak's, which damage keystones are better to use with. Tanks have %HP based shields and the health is scaled up by their stacking resists (bruisers don't stack too much resists or face dealing 0 damage). Grasp doesn't open up the possibility of another damage item either. What about Urgot? Ranged grasp is shit.

Ralanr2 votes

Urgot would prefer press the attack.

Grasp does do damage and it’s damage with HP, which is also the primary defensive stat of a juggernaut.

Catastrop5 votes

But why nerf Comet though, it's already a pretty underwhelming keystone.

Scorch, however, I can agree with. I'm not sure how anyone could think an additional flat 30 base damage every few attacks was in any way balanced in the laning phase.

kaironen3 votes

comet is currently a little too strong at top lane I think. The ap ratio is fine (it could need a small buff). The base damage is too high, I've been trying out malphite top with scorch, comet, ultimate hate, and trascendance and it does a ton of dmg. Even if 28 feels extremely small, it adds up after every q.

T4underbolt2 votes

If they nerf comet xerath will be useless. Its already hard to play him mid vs all the mobility and assassins etc. With nerfed comet and scorch it will be disaster.

Nymzo4 votes

Twitch W no longer applies passive over time, applies 2 stacks when the spell hits instead.

Of all the twitch nerfs proposed on this board, this has to be hands down the most useless one.

No offense to you of course, I know this is a post more about bruisers but when it comes to Twitch, the poison is ironically, the least toxic (eh) thing in his kit.

Seriously, I would prefer to die to his very delay and very counterable poison than his ult.

Dead flag blues3 votes

Honestly I don't get the sudden hate over "Malzahar being broken". There is literally an item made to counter him. Because he was played in worlds or some thing like that, every single sheep has to complain about it or what ? Same goes for Sona, she's been like this for years, started being picked by Koreans and everyone starts to cry about her being broken

AirKingNeo2 votes

Because Malz literally auto wins lanes, then scales really well with his high AP ratios and lockdown ult.

Kloqdq3 votes

I normally don't agree with you. However, I will agree with some of what you say but I'm going to add some two cent into this.

Twitch W no longer applies passive over time, applies 2 stacks when the spell hits instead.

This change is good and bad in some ways. Applying 2 stacks right away lowers his DPS over time (what I think is healthy) but increases his upfront burst power. Since if someone dashes out of the AoE they get away with one stack versus now 2. It's a chance at a dangerous outcome that creates a new problem. It's all but slim though. I do think Twitch needs a larger scale of work done though to really fix his core problems.

item 3075 Nerf it. If it sucks vs ADCs, then buff it against ranged only. Doesn't need to totally negate bruisers.

What you want to actually hit here is item 3076. This item is good, Thornmail on the other hand is worse than Bramble. This own item set as a whole is pretty poorly done. Bramble is an item that needs to exist but it's too good at the moment while Thornmail is a lot weaker. I honestly think the combination of the two are just destined to fail.

Maokai Nerf his base AD and base AS, then stop his permahealing.

Honestly, his biggest issue is CDR being so easy to get and him just massively benefiting from it on him and against him. He is just one of those champions that has tankiness, CC and damage to boot. I think his Cool downs either need to be longer and his damage needs to be lower. His passive could has a slight increase to it's cooldown as well. Really there are a number of possiblities with Maokai but CDR is the biggest problem here.

Nerf into unviablility until you fix their kits from auto winning vs melee champions

I mean just the simple factor of having range or rapid poke means you'll beat out melee champions. What these champions need is some defined weakness that opens up counter play while keeping these champions as viable options. Half of them require a rework and I do agree need to be shit on by the balance team (namely pantheon and akali) while the yordles need a defined weakness to their bullshit that isn't just, they are squishy.

Malzahar Just nerf.

Just rework it. This champion will never be balanced because he is the perfect mid laner. Remove this design from the game completely and try again.

item 3071 Armor pen increased to 30% (5% per stack), now disables the passive 'Last Whisper' so ADCs can't abuse it hard.

I don't think that is the solution to Brusiers. Also just make Black Cleaver have a name passive "Last Whisper" so the two don't stack.

item 3153 Changed to be not shit on bruisers. Maybe make it double stack Cleaver IF melee.

That sounds like a terrible idea. Why would you add an interaction like that at all to the item? Why do Brusiers even want Blade to begin with? It's more just a small niche item but only champs getting a ton of AS can abuse it so are we trying to buff on-hit champions? I don't get it.

item 3022 Melee only.

One up you. Remove from game. Permaslows are never going to be healthy and there is a rune that is already this item but 10x healthier. Remove this shit from the game completely because only 2 champions really abuse it and one is ranged and one is melee. Just get rid of it.

item 3124 Made not shitty on melee.

Adjust the gains for 8 stacks and make it double stack on melees. So it takes a lot longer for a ranged to use it while a melee can stack it rapidly. I would also go a step further and decrease the gold but that one is hard to say. I could see the item being 3200-3400 comfortable. Works out to being like Fervor was.

item 3156 Either stack with Sterak's (Graves can't abuse it anymore, Sterak's is melee only) or buff it in a way that makes it better for bruisers and no one else (like reduce base shield but give it a health ratio).

Health Ratio bit is probably the way to go.

TENACITY: Reduces displacements/airborne/knockups.

This one is really hard to pin point a fix too. How do you reduce the effects? Do you reduce their duration? Do you reduce their distance? Also pretty sure suppression are the same, not effected by Tenacity and really I think they should. You also need to consider how greatly that is effected. If I am Garen and I get 80ish Tenacity, do I just move a inch if Lee Sin kicks me? What is fair and what do we consider reasonable. Also, how do we provide people with the information to know that if I use my CC on this guy, he will not care about it? I do agree, it needs to be consistent, but we got to settle how that will look.

I have some issues with the rest but really I'm fine with them. The items likely need to be toned down anyways and Lulu is a horrible design while Raken is just overbearing at everything he does. Honestly, nothing too drastic and you seem pretty calm and collected here. Nice post.

JackMcSnipeyz2 votes

You should add a TL;DR : Dumpster adc No thanks

AirKingNeo10 votes

Not really? ADC isn't really dumpstered when tanks get nerfed. Sure, maybe you'll have to nerf duskblade afterwards, but that probably needs it.

More from Gameplay

More by AirKingNeo