Rageblade is losing over a net amount of 1000 gold in stats because Varus and Kog'maw abuse it

AirKingNeo··102 votes·23,357 views

50 + 24 AP lost, 3 AD lost, 16% AS gained, -200 cost, and melees gain 2 stacks (max stacks increased to 8, but stacks only give 8% MS).

That's 1609 gold worth of AP lost, 105 gold from AD lost, 400 gold of AS gained, and a flat reduction of 200 gold.

As a Kayle player, I have to ask "Why my balance crutch of viability is being destroyed?" Is it because they want to make her shit just so her rework seems better? I don't like to think about that nor do I want to.

As a Varus player, I have to ask, "Why the fuck can't you just nerf my god damn passive?" I don't play Kog'maw, but I bet their mains are asking, "Why was I nerfed at all if this was happening?"

And now, as top lane player, I have to say this benefit me. The item requires other onhit items to be effective. Bruisers can't build other onhit items because they provide no defensive stats (besides Wit's End), and therefore they die too quickly. BoRK is still a shitty item too, and they aren't buffing BoRK because then Ranged Rageblade users would just break it.

With this in mind, why the hell would I give up the synergy Trinity Force and Sterak's Gage? Now ask, who actually benefits from this change? Master Yi? Vayne? Even Kai'Sa is being nerfed before even coming out the patch after she hits with this change.

If you want to know what burning city looks like, you can just come to the Kayle mains Discord. Having to go through the nerf of from Devourer, the fall of Hurricane with the rise of Rageblade to compensate, both Rylai's and Fervor being nerfed for onhit users, the E cooldown change that makes her early game worse, and now her scaling is going to be hit. People aren't happy is an understatement.

Rageblade was originally a hybrid item that bruisers and hybrid champions would build. Now it's become a scaling onhit item, except melee champions don't stack full damage to gain efficient benefits. That's why only certain melee champions buy Infinity Edge; they have special synergy. Rageblade is being turned from a Hybrid Item into an ADC Item that Master Yi can also use.

214 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoir182 votes

Gonna try out a few rounds of changes this week most likely.

And as always, my final decision will be based on the expressed desires of the most upvoted, most rage-fueled thread on the topic that pops up during that time.

ModKnightsKemplar75 votes

Using the Boards exactly as intended. Nothing to see here.

ZaneShadow4 votes

{quoted}

Gonna try out a few rounds of changes this week most likely.

And as always, my final decision will be based on the expressed desires of the most upvoted, most rage-fueled thread on the topic that pops up during that time.

I love Rioters for posts like this, they make me laught and smile :) Can i upvote whatever is the most rage filled post that keeps AP in the item?

I loved the Item for champs like Kayle or Carry Teemo. Granted I'm just here to support the item for it's unique role, I'm neither talented nor play tons of champs who use it. Humble theory crafter who then gets my friend to play it, and so he winds up playing a lot of rage blade :)

AirKingNeo17 votes

And as always, my final decision will be based on the expressed desires of the most upvoted, most rage-fueled thread on the topic that pops up during that time.

Hey, this isn't rage. This is a worry. I was serious when I said, "If you want to know what burning city looks like, you can just come to the Kayle mains Discord." Right now we're in the period of where the city has already burned down and people are picking up the pieces trying to survive.

Also, I used math rather than circlejerk my way to the top, so at least give me props for that. If I had to give a recommendation, I would do the current Rageblade on live to 8 stacks (2 onattack for melee), but reduce the stats per stack to 5% AS, 3 AD, 4 AP (OLD (LIVE): 48% AS, 18 AD, 24 AP, max 6 stacks; NEW CONCEPT: 40% AS, 24 AD, 32 AP, max 8 stacks) and reduce the base stats to 30 AD, 40 AP, and 25% AS. That means you have to invest into more attack speed to get your stats (from the stacks) faster.

Varus will still be an issue, but as a Varus, just nerf the AS ratio on his passive, or make it apply to permanent attack speed (like Kai'Sa has for her ability evolution). Seriously, it's ridiculous getting almost 2.5 AS on a fully stacked Rageblade, Berserker Boots, and Hurricane with a minion kill.

Sp33d Zer025 votes

I don't think his snide comment was at this post, but other ones that will be super similar to it.

RiotRiotRepertoir36 votes

This is the case. No worries, though! I'm prepping a sweet sweet iteration for tomorrow that's sure to delight everyone.

Poolparty Sauron14 votes

Does it have spooooky effects >_>

RiotRiotRepertoir38 votes

No :(

Back to the drawing board...

pee jugs3 votes

{quoted}

No :(

Back to the drawing board...

Dont let these ppl sway you. Make guinsoo great again. Ffs the guy made dota. Was core on my Aatrox until my ap ratios disappeared

Run Faster2 votes

Hey is it too much to consider reverting rageblade to its previous iteration :c

That rageblade was so much fun with the aoe and how cheap it was. Was used by lots of classes.

ProfDrDeath5 votes

Repertoir, genuine worries with this:

  • 8 stacks for ranged might be a little bit much. Is there a way to keep 6 stacks for ranged, but make it more efficient for melee users? For instance, with its live 48% AS, you could have 4 max stacks for melees (12% AS/stack) and 6 max stacks for ranged (8% AS/stack). Or could stack generation maybe be doubled on melee champion hit without a change in the number of stacks altogether?
  • This AD/AS only iteration could be too strong on Yi, Vayne and the like. Personally, I'd prefer keeping the AP on it as a price for those champions, especially for Vayne. Also, some intended users like Shyvana (who'd benefit from a more melee-friendly Rageblade) have been balanced specifically with AP in mind back in the day.
MohawkBird19 votes

[deleted]

ModWulf Helhammer17 votes

Besides Kayle, Varus, and Kog'maw, who actually built Rageblade as a core item?

HaIlMonitor18 votes

core item

I feel like that is the problem. It doesnt really seem like they wanted it to be a core item based on how they got rid of it for junglers, but something after you get an item or two like Yi does.

Automated Riven8 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Wolf King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fu4a8LYN,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-03-07T02:10:36.441+0000)

Besides Kayle, Varus, and Kog'maw, who actually built Rageblade as a core item?

TBH this is the problem. It was released as a bruiser item but it was abused on adc's and instead of simply making it melee only they reworked it so its only able to be used on adc's, and then it broke certain ones and now they are gutting it. The item needs to be removed at this point. You cant make on hit effects double without it being broken.

MohawkBird5 votes

[deleted]

Sp33d Zer02 votes

I've never seen Teemo use it. As far as off meta champs, I haven't seen Irelia build it since s5, and I've never seen Kennen or Lulu ever build it even in a trolly build.

Corrupt Bliss7 votes

... have you ever seen machine gun Lulu? Lulu + item 3124 item 3153 item 3091 item 3085 item 3026 item 3006

What Is Smite11 votes

There were once myths about an Aatrox main who still built Rageblade as part of his core, they say he still builds it to this day, but those are mere rumors.

AlienPrimate5 votes

Well Aatrox can solo baron with just bloodrazor and rageblade.

What Is Smite2 votes

I.... can't argue with that, way too true. item 1419 and item 3124 , 75 physical damage per-hit and 15 magic damage per hit with passive AD and AS is ridiculous to say the least. Unfortunately it leaves him very squishy and prone to being insta-bursted

Profirix2 votes

I REALLY wanted to build it on Shyvana, but I often came out feeling really squishy and couldn't live long enough to utilize the passive effect. I still maintain that Rageblade should be a core item on her but other than her situational passive, all of her tankiness comes from her ult or items.

Lord of Math2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Wolf King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fu4a8LYN,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-03-07T02:10:36.441+0000)

Besides Kayle, Varus, and Kog'maw, who actually built Rageblade as a core item?

Aatrox

HaIlMonitor3 votes

Lucian got a lot of stuff nerfed too....

Pierce The Veal16 votes

Welp, it’s neat the Guinsoo’s is now an AD item. Glad that we have no officially reduced the legitimate hybrid items down to just Gunblade. What’s next? Gunblade now loses revolver and builds out of BF sword because of its synergy with statikk shiv?

PB4UAME3 votes

And the active can now crit, scaling with crit chance, and IE works on this as well.

34112354565214 votes

ADCs warping more items around themselves ? More news at 7

Gixia9 votes

{quoted}

And now, as top lane player, I have to say this benefit me. The item requires other onhit items to be effective. Bruisers can't build other onhit items because they provide no defensive stats (besides Wit's End), and therefore they die too quickly.

item 3748 says hi.

I mean, you're not completely wrong with everything else you've said, but Titanic Hydra is a pretty effective mix of defense and damage that could probably work with new Rageblade pretty effectively.

Jinx Hunter9 votes

Its item 3053 all over again. Instead of taking advantage of melee/range specific modifiers or just straight up restricting them item to melee and working it around them because they are the only ones that can use it fairly with counter play. they just straight up gut it. Good job Riot.

Good job taking another Bruiser Item Riot.

The Storm8 votes

This does not make sense at all. Kayle getting her mid to lategame chopped, imean i dont see any reason picking her up now

FalconPawwwwnch7 votes

Me trying to buy it on Jax when it lost that many stats

Dracocrash6 votes

Riot balancing items around op adc's is nothing new.

Wait for them to nerf deathcap because some pro player found a broken build for it w/ an adc.

Sire Hippington4 votes

I really hope they don't go through with that changes, beeing an hybrid item is core to guinsoo's, and Ap-onhit builts are in a bad enough spot as is. If they feel champs like YI or Irelia becuase of lacking scaleings, then just buff their AP scaleings or add some new ones to increase the synergie. It's not like any of them have AP off builts that woul get out of hand with a few buffs. They also totally miss the point on why melees don#t built it. It's both because off getting the stacks up is to ahrd for them outside of lane, and the new change won't change that, and mostly because it needs other off items to work well which they can't afford as they need defense, which also means spending that much money on an item with neither defense nor utillity is not a good idea. Same reason why only few melees ever touch crit items...

Hte issue is that this idea is so backwards and stupid that it's quite likely that riot goes for it given their track record over the last few seasons

Zalinthel4 votes

While I agree that getting rid of its AP seems unnecessary and weird for the item since it's always had it, it's really not that useless without other on-hits on a lot of champions that would want it.

Aatrox: Likes the stats, makes it so he procs his W on every other attack instead of every 3rd. Jax : Actually probably worse because of the loss of AP, but like Aatrox makes him proc his ult passive faster and synergizes with his passive. Shyvana: Unsure if the AP loss is enough with her ratios, but it makes her double-proc her W and E on-hit, cools her Q down faster, gives fury to get back to/keep up ult. MasterYi : Duh. Udyr : Makes Udyr proc his Tiger, Turtle and Phoenix effects every other auto instead of every 3. XinZhao : Makes him proc his passive every other auto instead of every 3.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

I don't see how this hurts Kayle. She makes use of the AD, she builds a lot of on hits, and it diversifies her damage, which is especially important since item 3194 is a thing now.

SithesisLord5 votes

I don't see how this hurts Kayle.

Very likely because you don´t play her.

She makes use of the AD

She also makes use of the AP

she builds a lot of on hits

Wit's End. That´s the only extra on-hit she can buy. And it´s still situational.

And Nashor's Tooth is her core. 2 on-hits total. Technically one, since it´s built all the time.

and it diversifies her damage

It already does though.

It hurts her a lot more because losing the AP on Rageblade means she has to compensate for that on more AP to make the on-hit passive from Nashor's actually worthwhile.

To be fair, most of the changes in Season 8 have been slowly gutting Kayle.

From the early E CDs, to Precision primary splitting stats and now this.

If PBE Guinsoo's goes live, there will be next to zero reason to pick Kayle anywhere unless people need an ult bot for a solo laner.

Late Game Kayle2 votes

runaans says hi

Solitair3 votes

AurelionSol know dat feel.

item 3030 chopped up just to make it a more popular buy on champions that didn't synergize with it anyway.

item 3001 Now this set with a nerf that would completely remove the viability of the unique passive...for what reason.

I guess that niche or OTP bait champions will always be at the mercy of meta-relevant changes. It's just sad when the changes just don't really have an explained, compelling reason.

Sp33d Zer02 votes

Kayle KogMaw Varus are the three champs that ACTUALLY use it though, so it's 2/3rds of its core users.

We have a number of champs who kind of use it sometimes maybe Jax Kalista MasterYi but that's about it.

SithesisLord2 votes

The difference being that Kayle USES Rageblade, while Kog and Varus ABUSE it.

Sp33d Zer017 votes

Tell me EXACTLY how Kog and Varus ABUSE it, and Kayle simply USES it?

Is it because they are ranged? Oh wait, Kayle is ranged. Is it because of Runaans? Oh wait... Kayle build Runaans. Ok maybe it's because of the high on hit damage and the mixed scaling! Oh wait, Kayle has high on hit damage and mixed scaling. Well maybe it's because they have strong tools to keep them alive! Oh wait, Kayle has the strongest tool out of the three for surviving a fight.

Oh I know, It's just because they play bot lane.

Pokemonred2002 votes

I think it's because Kayle doesn't tend to rush it, so it's not one of her biggest spikes (that goes to item 3115, since CDR is going to spikes her harder than the phantom hit or attack damage will). A lot of Kayles I see even go for item 3085 or item 3091 second/third, some opting to not get rageblade at all.

Varus and Kog both rush it ASAP, and afaik, at present, neither of them tends to not built it which is where I think the 'abuse' comes in.

This is just what I think the case is though. I'm not sure if this is actually the reasoning but it looks like it might be.

Bern2 votes

If always building an item is abuse, every AP mid abuses a mana item, and all crit ADs abuse IE RFC Shiv, and...

It's only "abuse" if it's clearly not intended for them and it busts them beyond belief. Varus and Kog are good, but don't seem busted unless you very strongly believe ADCs should never ever spike on one item; furthermore, I don't know who else even looks like a good rageblade user besides Varus and Kog except Kayle (scale with both AP and AD, innate on-hit effects, want to AA long enough and often enough to profit from it). "Abuse" is something like GP top taking relic shield, because he's not an intended user (it's for tank supports) and it just increases his already high gold income.

Colte2 votes

rip kayle

Stars Shaper2 votes

Excuse me?

Varus had other viable builds before they got whined about by the likes of you and now you also ruined his on-hit one? And you think Varus was ABUSING it?

This game and players only want point&click ADCs to be playable I see.

Sasogwa2 votes

Only stacks on champions???

NONONONO RITO PLS THE ITEM IS GONNA BE GARBAGE.

And the fact it stacks on champions, despite being 4 stacks melee, 6 stacks ranged is gonna make it broken shit on varus/kog again and probably not viable at all on melees, that CAN NOT afford to build fucktons of AD/AP. The era of gunblade/rageblade Jax is long gone. It's not gonna work.

Abort mission, Repertoir! These changes will benefit range champions too much compared to melees, even if (!) they require 6 stacks and melees require 4.

pee jugs1 votes

I dont like the ap on the item. Hope it gets rekt. U have plenty other items that kayle can use like the dirt cheap wits end. Nashor into wits? Gtfo

Śhunpo1 votes

Good, now actual ADCs will stop building it (maybe) and the actual users of Guinsoo's will use it.

AirKingNeo2 votes

by buffing it for ADC?

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