Consider this Preseason the ultimate and final trial for the Balance Team

AirKingNeo··230 votes·8,120 views

No joke or satire. Balance team has been joking around for the past couple of years. Whether you agree or disagree with such a time length, you could just focus on the past year as a good example as my examples are within the past year.

Before even looking at examples, you probably want to know what exact I, and probably most people, want to see coming out of the balance team and gameplay. Using Worlds for an example, you'll see almost every kill, if not all of them, where the results of jungler ganks or 5 man deathballs. Where's the self snowballing and skill expression of map rotation? It's literally just picking up the nearest objective these days, though most players don't even do that themselves. Point is: It's boring and it's not fun to watch or play. I don't like seeing teamwide snowballing so you auto win the 5 man deathballs, nor do I enjoy solo kills being not worth it.

I simply want a state of the game where no class(es) are ungodly overpowered in comparison to another, splitpushing is a viable tactic and not negated by taking Baron, solo kills are meaningful, teamwide snowballing isn't as high as it currently is, no class(es) or items invalidate another class. I want powercreeped reduced.

These examples aren't your memed, "Ekko fares well against mages...", these are actual statements in patches or by Rioters that reveal how terrible balance has been.

https://i.imgur.com/zhXLbxf.png

In summary, he's saying "We buffed supports as class and gave them more impact in hopes that it would make support more popular as a role." Do you notice the problem with this? Perhaps making supports stronger inadvertently makes ADCs broken. Perhaps this inadvertently makes assassins and bruisers weaker. Did Riot consider any of this? Based on the previous patches of the game not buffing bruisers or assassins in any way, nor nerfing the peeling effects of ADCs (or lifesteal), no they did not.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeBlancMains/comments/6wqe87/dear_riot_balance_team/dmax6n1/

This one happens to be a favorite of the boards. If AD carries have been broken since, we'll say, right before mid season, why wasn't this covered in 2-3 patches? If they didn't realize it, yet somehow 'crowd sources' did, then isn't that a fault on their research? Also I'm fairly certain the game has been competitive in others states, but maybe this is just a result of other unfixed factors.

https://i.imgur.com/A4X8PI2.png

Personally, I think this should have been memed more than the Ekko thing. This wasn't a simple mistake, this was just absolute backwards design. Before being nerfed, Fiora was very powered. Now she's nerfed and an overpowered item, which is killing the bruiser class, exists. If you are a game designer, what do you do? Perhaps nerf the overpowered item? Maybe making Fiora auto win again, but this time only if her opponent can't buy Bramble Vest, is a bad design choice.

Keep in mind the original context about giving Thornmail heal reduction, "Against champions and teams that lean on heavy healing and regeneration effects, tanky melee types sometimes feel like they’re actually hurting their team by serving as convenient health batteries." Clearly, they're talking about AD carries because the only melee champion who could drain tank is Fiora. Surely, Aatrox and Irelia are not related. So here's a good question, Why is the heal reduction not against ranged only?

https://i.imgur.com/l1d1mJB.png

He's talking about Sterak's Gage. I didn't know it gave anything near 20% cooldown reduction and 24% armor pen and a movement speed bonus extra.

https://i.imgur.com/vx7EMWE.png

Apparently Riot isn't aware about what champions are broken. Don't know what else to say.

https://i.imgur.com/OX1CqOH.png

First thing pointing out: This guy is not someone who works in balance design or playtesting. Second thing, focus on that 54% winrate for Pantheon. You can check op.gg for his winrate over the past 6 months if you'd like. Apparently, 'better communication' would help people better understand why a champion who you can't outplay or interact with is allowed to be broken.

https://i.imgur.com/kRngWxZ.png

Just using this to point out that there isn't a single person at fault, but instead an entire team.


What does any of this mean? I'm spreading the news. It's up for your interpretation for the most part, but it's a clear sign that something is going wrong.

The balance team has worked on the game for over 4 years now. The gloves are off, and there's no excuses left. They couldn't or refused to balance season 7. Now the game is in total chaos from a lack of checking numbers, despite apparently working on preseason instead of fixing the remaining season 7. I give them until the season officially begins to solve this chaos, and everything they refuses to fix in season 7 that still remains. If they cannot reach, "a state of the game where no class(es) are ungodly overpowered in comparison to another, splitpushing is a viable tactic and not negated by taking Baron, solo kills are meaningful, teamwide snowballing isn't as high as it currently is, no class(es) or items invalidate another class." by half way minimum, then they have failed.

Unofficially the last chance the balance team has to prove themselves as people who aren't faking a balance team. Here's a hint, "In most cases with direct gameplay, 'Do not increase defenses; reduce damage instead.' will almost always apply." Good luck.

250 Comments

EternalShock68 votes

the rengar nerf and twitch not being nerfed like him pretty much explained to me how they thought ( or didnt )

bias is their middle name and they are proud to wear their nametag as long as the game makes money.

they had the AUDACITY to call out their balance team and show us their ranks.

not one of the names mentioned played bruisers. not one. not even a fiora player. they KNEW what they were doing when they nerfed this class and fucked it constantly for 3 seasons.

they played braindead tanks that have percent hp damage some shitty support mains abusing ardent and lulus polymorph and the rest are caitlyn/tristana/kog mains.

AirKingNeo24 votes

item 3076 "What do you mean bias?" Janna

EternalShock30 votes

what do u mean we understand top lane and how champions should work FioraChogath

AirKingNeo22 votes

Jayce Pantheon Maokai Gnar

EternalShock47 votes

"pantheon and jayce fall off bro jsut dont walk into lane as a melee for 60 minutes and THEN they wont do as much damage as they could be doing"

"bro just dont walk near maokai and get cced lol", "just dont play a melee and ur fine bro"

"frozen mallet is fine bro im silver support main i know how gnar works dude.

Squey2 votes

No one ever makes an actual argument on pantheon. They just meme it.
I used to play alot of pantheon and he has very clear strengths and weaknesses.

Strengths= Lane dominance. Roaming. Tower diving. Weakness= CC. Disengage. Kiting. Not being ahead. Team fighting.

Your one and only goal when dealing with pantheon is not getting him ahead. If he goes even in lane or in comparison to everyone in the game then he lost and will most likely cost his team the game. If he doesnt kill you in lane and any roaming he does is made up for elsewhere then you won. It doesnt matter if your behind nearly as much as it matters that pantheon has gottten more gold then anyone else. Yes u can complain about his kit being really old and lacks the kind of counterplay we are used to. But if u complain about pantheon then you cant let gp pass either. They play pretty much the same. Pantheon point and click Q's you whenever your in range. Gp does exact same thing but also applies on hit effects like grasp and crit. Pantheon has block thats counters auto's and turret shots. Gp has oranges that give him sustain and negate cc. Pantheon has good roaming with ult. Gp doesnt even have to roam to impact other lanes with his ult. Pantheon snowballs early and falls off. Gp snowballs early and never falls off. Pantheon gets behind early and is useless. Gp gets behind and gets ridiculous amounts of extra gold from just farming.

You cannot legit talk crap about pantheon with out bring in gp as well. Nothing pantheon does in this game is out of control. He needs a major rework for sure. But he isnt actually an issue.

AirKingNeo7 votes

Why is there this myth that Pantheon needs a lead to be good and sucks at teamfights? Guy has a stun, cleaver stacks on tanks with his aoe DoT, and a lot more.

Rexxiee9 votes

{quoted}

what do u mean we understand top lane and how champions should work FioraChogath

I cracked up when i read "what is the problem with cho again?"

LMAO this is our balance team boys.

EinarUlfar45 votes

It's amazing how most of the comments here are merely people looking to be argumentative over small points rather than take in the entire point behind this post. In truth, The Balance Team has appeared incredibly lazy & careless for QUITE some time now. Which is what Neo is trying to point out.

This is not taking into consideration the inevitable fiesta that is S8 Preseason; that's not even a factor given it will inevitably be a new system that has to be balanced out.

No one's ignoring the fact that tons of factors can come into play when balancing/rebalancing, but the balance team themselves appear unafraid of throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. IMO Support's power should always be in their kit, or alongside items that merely empower their kit in a minor way - not allow them to turn ADCs into super-statsticks. It isn't like their kits didn't do an effective job. The game's pacing + length should not be fast+short, because it goes against the fundamental design of the game; inevitably rendering some systems ineffective and twisting the game into something else - something that didn't amass it the fanbase it has today.

Slich Bissi6 votes

Honestly I used to main support. I mained Sona and Soraka and had a great time just being a healbot and relaxing. It was a pretty passive, fun, and kind of brain off mode.

Then they decided healing was just oh so terrible for their e-sports scene so they completely gutted all the support heroes I enjoyed and the playstyle I enjoyed.

Guess who hasn't played a support since whenever that happened?

ModAcademy Kayn39 votes

Apparently Riot isn't aware about what champions are broken.

This is the only thing that bothers me. It's entirely possible for two people to have different views on a subject. If we want to understand the divide in which two people disagree on a topic, you have to know what both think.

From the arguments I see from the Cho topic, people dislike Cho building Full Tank, Stone Plating, Righteous Glory into one shotting carries with his ult. Understandable, but from what I hear from Riot's perspective, though I can't find a source, they have a point as well. If Cho is going to build Full Tank and do that, he is consolidating all his power into that single Ultimate use.

All his abilities are simply a means to an end, more specifically, your end via Ultimate. Due to Cho's Ult being low range, the Teamwork around beating him becomes fending off this giant monster coming at you, which is very thematically sound with someone like Cho'Gath. If Cho can't get past the front line, his one-shot is wasted on a less profitable target, like a Tank who won't die instantly. So the trade off is a lack of powerful ranged damaged tools, for an extremely potent close range that requires tankiness to use and to get into position.

Some will argue that difficulty is overcome with Flash, but I'll argue back that most champion's difficulties are overcome with flash in general.

So, we have two people with two separate views on a problem. Anti-One-Shots think Cho shouldn't be able to do this, or to the extreme that he can do it. Riot believes he should, and though they've discussed whether or not it's too potent with a comment about "changing Stone-plate so it isn't entirely bonus health", they're okay with the dynamic that exists.

So my problem is, is that you think you are absolutely right about something being broken, and if Riot can't see it, then there is something wrong with them. That's incredibly black and white, and discounts the idea of discussion. They definitely do know about it, but in their opinions, they think that the trade-off between his Full Tank and AP playstyles is significant enough for it to be okay.

The thoughts about ADCs are pretty similar to mine, and I agree with you there. But assuming that you are the ultimate authority on if something is broken or not is where I see a problem in the name of arguing shit.

AirKingNeo15 votes

Cho perma slows in lane with E so not really.

ModAcademy Kayn26 votes

You're missing the point of my small essay if you're focusing on that.

AirKingNeo9 votes

Because I don't really care about his ult, nor is his full AP build even a build. I'm saying a hyper scaling tank shouldn't be good in lane. I don't really care how good or bad his ult is in design because I'm fine with it being a nuke, just not Stoneplate boosted. I'm saying he shouldn't be so strong at all points of the game.

But assuming that you are the ultimate authority on if something is broken or not is where I see a problem in the name of arguing shit.

I form my opinion by being informed by other people, myself, and statistics. I think I have a fairly strong grasp of what is and isn't broken because I am open to people's ideas and opinions as long as they give good explanation. So if I am the 'ultimate authority' in my opinion, I guess? It isn't a bad thing since I am not stubborn to reasoning.

ModAcademy Kayn13 votes

Then express that is what you want to be nerfed LIKE THE RIOTER ASKED instead of instantly assuming that they know what the fuck you're talking about, and if they don't, than they're the ones with a problem.

ModAcademy Kayn20 votes

Live Design clearly doesn't pay attention to their own game

No, they don't pay attention to things you want them to pay attention to. You are considering yourself the ultimate authority on what is broken or not.

Literally didn't think Cho'Gath was overpowered nor could figure out why. If they have no clue what I'm talking about, then they are at fault for gross negligence, especially when these are not "new" topics being brought about.

You're saying that because they don't agree with you, they're being idiots, when they could just have a separate point of view, you're clearing ignoring.

LuxannaVeritas8 votes

Bless this comment.

I think by digging deeper into this subject, you revealed the OP's argument to be extremely biased in his direction. In his original post he focused only on points that supported his argument rather than any of the numerous points that didn't.

The balance team has done much more than what people are saying, and the fact that people don't understand that is truly disheartening.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku9 votes

The balance team has done much more than what people are saying, and the fact that people don't understand that is truly disheartening.

This... isn't an excuse for not address Ardent shit for months, for not nerf Kog, for letting Fiora AS debuff for no reason, to let the best bot lane wins for so long...

Letting AP Galio op for one Day isn't really serious (even if any1 above gold- plat should be able to see the 90% ap ratio as op), but letting some sh*t for x months is what's make community more edgy than usual.

xelaker3 votes

how does riot's ding-a-ling taste?

ModAcademy Kayn17 votes

How goes the ad hominem?

xelaker3 votes

you just spent your entire argument implying that the people you respond to aren't smart enough to understand the bigger picture and are being selfish... so how does the legit ad hominem go? seriously man 5 dollar words aren't worth shit. Don't bother responding with another fallacy, I don't waste my time with pretentious children spamming what they learned in speech 1 yesterday.

ModAcademy Kayn12 votes

Says the kid who won't spell dick, lmao.

AirKingNeo3 votes

That's not an argument.

ModAcademy Kayn8 votes

He didn't have one. Not when you start off asking how someones genitals taste. It kinda kills any credibility of being unbiased.

SpecterVonBaren8 votes

Thank you for being a sensible and rational person.

AirKingNeo13 votes

Actually he just moved the goal post to where he thought it was, then argued that point.

However, he assumed wrong.

SpecterVonBaren11 votes

No he didn't actually. He attempted to show you that what you see with what you know is different from what Riot sees with what they know.

Penns33 votes

But if people get too frustrated they might quit the game so we rather just ~~ruin ~~ rework assassins for having no counterplay while buffing Shiv + IE + making it stack with RFC again and buffing low counterplay supports :)

Ben Sharpio17 votes

you fking told me you abused janna/sona youre a part of the problem penns fuck you !!!!!!!!!

Bottom Laner11 votes

"hehe xd"

NineTailedMystic9 votes

meh, assassins deserved it, adcs didn't deserve crit buffs tho

DKM Bismarck9 votes

Assassins were keeping certain things like crit ADC's in check and when that was taken away + their itemisation was buffed + reworked assassins got nerfed (so most of them were even slower.) + supports got buffed, giving them very little counterplay and making them stat checkers, it's no surprise they ended up being so OP. I think the assassin rework followed by the constant flow of adc buffs was a fucking TERRIBLE idea.

dunder kill22 votes

. Where's the self snowballing and skill expression of map rotation?

Lol dafuq are you even talking about? Just because you dont understand the rotations and strategies they were using doesnt mean they weren't using them. Saying there was no relevant macro play at worlds is absolutely fucking insane

AirKingNeo6 votes

Rotations barely exist. There's no "focus X because Y is doing Z", it's 5 man deathball, winner now takes the most efficient route to get as many objectives as they can.

dunder kill20 votes

Rotating with your team is part of rotations. Jesus christ

AirKingNeo7 votes

1-3-1 is shit right now because it's 5 man deathballs into winning side takes what they can. That's not skillful rotations.

Morgan le Fey3 votes

{quoted}

1-3-1 is shit right now because it's 5 man deathballs into winning side takes what they can. That's not skillful rotations.

The weird "deathballs" assertion aside for now, why does rotation have to look exactly like you want it to look? Part of a game designed around meta shifts is that everything doesn't stay the same and stale over a long period of time. Even if 1-3-1 specifically is bad, and I'm not saying it necessarily is in all cases, why is that a bad thing, and what relevancy does it have to the overall state of rotations?

AirKingNeo2 votes

1-3-1 is an example, but you clearly missed the point.

Morgan le Fey2 votes

{quoted}

1-3-1 is an example, but you clearly missed the point.

Maybe. What's the point that I missed?

AirKingNeo2 votes

5 man deathball, whoever wins, just takes whatever is available on the map being the only viable strategy isn't good.

Morgan le Fey2 votes

{quoted}

5 man deathball, whoever wins, just takes whatever is available on the map being the only viable strategy isn't good.

So... your problem is that you think it's a teamfight meta? Perhaps also that the goal of teamfights is to open up available objectives to be taken quickly?

BobaFlautist4 votes

Deathball isn't the same as a teamgfight meta. Teamfight metas typically revolve around powerful engages and aoe combos that punish clumped teams, deathball meta revolves around a late game carry and their team peeling and cc'ing the enemy.

Deathball isn't about carefully orchestrating an engage, managing resources (sums and ults), and timing abilities, it's about your primary tank walking under the enemy tower and sitting there while your support, mage, and secondary tank/secondary support spoon-feed kills into the grinder that is your adc - you snowball, get an advantage, and bludgeon the enemy to death with a massive bag of gold while they hide under a useless tower and desperately try to kite back.

Naqel21 votes

While I agree with your post in spirit...

a state of the game where [...] splitpushing is a viable tactic and not negated by taking Baron

The whole point of Baron is to create a dynamic wherein a split-pusher that's able to 1v1 everyone on the enemy team can still be dealt with in ways other than sending multiple people after them.

Split-pushing is quite literally in the most balanced state it has ever been(at least in coordinated/competitive games), precisely because Baron exists as a viable counter(and Herald as a viable early game boost to it).

AirKingNeo6 votes

Splitpushing is shit right now. You take baron and an opposing splitpusher is stopped by halved recall timers, bonus movement, and empowered minions.

Daedric Etwahl16 votes

I'm... pretty sure you just said his entire point.

Like what can you do vs a splitpusher that can 1v1 anyone? Send multiple people? Then what about the rest of the enemy team?

Taking Baron against a splitpush threat gives you leeway vs them in several ways for a temporary amount of time.

HR5OdeMImE7 votes

Start by making towers stronger.

The entire point of splitpushing is to attract more than 1 enemie to you, or try to take towers if they dont. If you want a world where splitpushers cant 1v1 you want a world where there is no splitpush.

Brotha20 votes

Designers at Riot are given quite high agency to make their own decisions and are not held at the whim of some random silver overlord.

So they're rarely if ever held accountable for their fuck ups, if you're below a certain rank your opinion will immediately be disregarded, and knowing this they have no incentive to do their job. Can't say I'm surprised considering they regard reddit and forums as an echobox, wish death on members of the league community they dislike, and aren't even aware of what champions are abusing what items. Riot is really getting too big for their britches.

AirKingNeo14 votes

"Maybe Jayce shouldn't be viable because he fucks every melee champion in lane. These are things we've known for a while now, but the new developers seem to be figuring that out for the 3rd fucking time. Riot buffs Jayces, guess what that means. Jayce proceeds to fuck every melee champion in lane. Riot is like, 'How could this happen? Who could have predicted that Jayce would do the same thing he did before yet changed nothing about his kit?'"

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