Off-meta vs. Trolling

The Ecdysiast··1 votes·631 views

Edit: Title should be "Off-meta vs. Troll picks"

The "meta" is composed of the strongest champions by patch, and is generally determined by item or champion changes.

Nidalee Currently, Nidalee is not in the meta. Specifically, Nidalee jungle is off-meta. She is not one of the strongest options. She is actually one of the weakest options and has been for quite some time. However, it is her intended role. Picking Nidalee jungle is off-meta because it is a weak pick. But her ability's most recent iterations were intended for the jungle.

Azir Contrastly, Azir jungle is a troll pick. His kit was not designed for the jungle. Even more so than anyone else in the game, it actually hinders attempts to clear camps (since his soldiers don't apply red buff). Anyone who actually intends to win the game will not pick Azir for the jungle. And no, ignorance of this fact does not excuse the person. The same person might argue that they didn't know running down mid wasn't a legitimate strategy.

Ezreal Of course, since the meta changes champions may find themselves as part of the meta in an unintended role. Currently, Ezreal jungle is meta. It has been proven to work with his current strength. It's up to the balance team to decide whether or it will stay this way. However, this works both ways. Back in season 3, Nidalee was powerful both at mid and in the jungle. Now, she stands almost no chance against the mid lane lineup.

That's the difference between an off-meta pick and a troll pick, for anyone who gets confused about it. But before you comment that technically it isn't against the rules, neither is intentionally feeding unless you can prove via the chat that they said they were inting. Otherwise they have the argument that they didn't know running down mid was a bad strategy, like my fictional 0/15/0 Azir would say he didn't know Azir wasn't a jungler.

And remember, whether a person's pick was off-meta or troll only matters when it was a key factor in loss. If they did it well and won, then good on them. They'll have shown that it works in that particular matchup against that particular player as an opponent-- most likely a lagging or disconnected opponent if it's a troll pick. But if they fed as expected of playing a champion in a role they were not designed to play with items they were not designed to buy, then they should have known better.

21 Comments

ChiTenshi3 votes

Trolling is intentionally annoying people through select words and actions. Anyone can troll regardless of their Champion Pick being legit or not.

Using a Champion in a Position/Role they’re not designed for does not automatically mean the person is trolling.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Trolling is intentionally annoying people through select words and actions. Anyone can troll regardless of their Champion Pick being legit or not.

Using a Champion in a Position/Role they’re not designed for does not automatically mean the person is trolling.

I, and Riot, beg to differ. People have been banned in the past for using champions as not designed in ways that are a detriment to the team. (as opposed to simply abusing strengths a champion isn't intended to have, like tank Ekko, to the team's benefit)

I didn't mean that trolling is limited to champ select, only that doing this is what a "troll pick" means. There is a very, very stark difference between off-meta, which simply means any champion that isn't the top of their role, and troll.

DrCyanide2 votes

{quoted}

I, and Riot, beg to differ.

No, you beg to differ. Riot specifically says on their support site there's no problems with picking champions in roles they weren't intended for.

People have been banned in the past for using champions as not designed in ways that are a detriment to the team.

What you're thinking of are cases that forced teammates to also break role meta without wanting to. 2 bot is Meta, these players forced 1 bot frequently.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

No, you beg to differ. Riot specifically says on their support site there's no problems with picking champions in roles they weren't intended for.

What you're thinking of are cases that forced teammates to also break role meta without wanting to. 2 bot is Meta, these players forced 1 bot frequently.

You're looking at information that was last changed 5 years ago and has nothing to do with what is actually accepted by the punishment system. In more recent years, they've cracked down, rightfully so, on players' troll picks even if their meta game was on par with their rank. Unfortunately, we aren't given up to date information.

You may be thinking only of that particular Singed and Nunu, but they are not the only examples. It's not meta to be forced to switch your strategy as a lane bully just because your support picked Talon, or your strategy as an entire team because your jungler picked Ryze and has been executed three times in the first five minutes.

ChiTenshi1 votes

So, what is your stance on MF Support?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

So, what is your stance on MF Support?

Please get into the habit of finishing reading before you decide to comment. I addressed changes to the meta, specifically cases such as jungle Ezreal, bot lane Ziggs, and the much more conditional MF support.

ChiTenshi1 votes

The issue is MF Support wasn’t even meta.

She was popular after Worlds, but she didn’t really take hold in the current meta and immediately fell from popularity in less than a week.

Is it considered meta when a Champion Pick is used by a professional team? But then players are not taking into consideration any practise the team did beforehand, the communication/teamwork they have, etc.

Looks more like meta-sheep blindly copying FOTM and calling anyone who doesn’t follow suit Trolls.

——

I also have another situation.

Nidalee was prioritised as a Mid Champion before her rework.

What if I decided to continue playing her in this Position whilst the meta changed around me?

I’m suddenly a troll by your standards even though I may have mastered her in said Position.

Bronze 6 Yasuo2 votes

Is that why nidalee is used in challenger?

Elsewise1 votes

Is it trolling if I go Critikarma support and end up doing more damage to champions than my ADC?

SilentBomber1 votes

Yeap

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Is it trolling if I go Critikarma support and end up doing more damage to champions than my ADC?

Yes, actually. You were assigned or intended to go support, and you didn't play your role. And especially so, since all you did was take their role from them as a champion less suited for it.

Elsewise1 votes

No, see, if you don't do support things like warding and "peeling" (killing) enemies, you're not CritiKarma SUPPORT, you're actually just "Secondary Carry." If you're trying to win, play the best you can while still being useful, AND don't screw over your teammates, that's not trolling in my book.

...Also I've only ever done this in normals, because I'm not that stupid. >.>

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

No, see, if you don't do support things like warding and "peeling" (killing) enemies, you're not CritiKarma SUPPORT, you're actually just "Secondary Carry." If you're trying to win, play the best you can while still being useful, AND don't screw over your teammates, that's not trolling in my book.

...Also I've only ever done this in normals, because I'm not that stupid. >.>

You're not trying to win if you're building incorrectly on purpose. That is a part of gameplay. It's such an important part of gameplay that Riot considers counter builds equal to counter play for balancing purposes.

... And the rules still apply in normals. Can't call someone an n-word just because it's not ranked.

hhaavviikk1 votes

I'd say meta is more so determined by the strongest champions discovered by popular players so far, I remember support annie, she went from never seen and presumed garbage to top tier 1 support and OP overnight with 0 changes and the only reason why is because it worked for a popular streamer or a tournament, can't quite rmember which it was

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

I'd say meta is more so determined by the strongest champions discovered by popular players so far, I remember support annie, she went from never seen and presumed garbage to top tier 1 support and OP overnight with 0 changes and the only reason why is because it worked for a popular streamer or a tournament, can't quite rmember which it was

The meta is literally the most effective options. Just because they have not become the norm does not mean they aren't meta. Conversely, something doesn't become meta just because a popular player does it. It has to have reason to work in the first place. Critical strike chance Taric top lane isn't going to become meta because simply doesn't work. Annie support worked before the boom you're referring to, because her passive obviously brings an instantaneous stun to the lane.

hhaavviikk1 votes

{quoted}

The meta is literally the most effective options. Just because they have not become the norm does not mean they aren't meta. Conversely, something doesn't become meta just because a popular player does it. It has to have reason to work in the first place. Critical strike chance Taric top lane isn't going to become meta because simply doesn't work. Annie support worked before the boom you're referring to, because her passive obviously brings an instantaneous stun to the lane.

yes but she wasn't ''meta'' before she got popular, and that's what the meta is, picking the current popular and strong champions and automatically assuming anything non-meta is just bad, and then it turns out the non-meta pick is the most effective option and it becomes meta

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

yes but she wasn't ''meta'' before she got popular, and that's what the meta is, picking the current popular and strong champions and automatically assuming anything non-meta is just bad, and then it turns out the non-meta pick is the most effective option and it becomes meta

You have been misinformed on the definition of "meta" in video games. It has nothing to do with what's popular. It is what is most effective. Again, just because it hasn't become popular yet does not mean it isn't effective. People just don't know it is. Annie support was never troll because bringing an AoE damage mage with no spell wind-ups, and reliable hard crowd control to bot lane had been the norm.

I really don't even know what you're referring to, since Annie has been played support since even before DFG was removed. She was an obvious pick to anyone with a brain.

hhaavviikk1 votes

{quoted}

You have been misinformed on the definition of "meta" in video games. It has nothing to do with what's popular. It is what is most effective. Again, just because it hasn't become popular yet does not mean it isn't effective. People just don't know it is. Annie support was never troll because bringing an AoE damage mage with no spell wind-ups, and reliable hard crowd control to bot lane had been the norm.

I really don't even know what you're referring to, since Annie has been played support since even before DFG was removed. She was an obvious pick to anyone with a brain.

definition of meta is mostly subjective and differs per game, within the LoL forums it's used by 99% of the people to note which champions are popular and strong, and that is mostly defined by the champions seen by popular LoL streamers and LoL tournaments.

she actually was, if you picked support annie before she got picked in tournaments you would get flamed at, you would be called a fucking noob who should uninstall the game and who should die because it wasn't meta back then and any non meta pick is unacceptable and will get you flamed simple as that.

clearly it wasn't obvious as she wasn't played as a support for YEARS and support annie wasn't meta for YEARS

A Nunu1 votes

Disco Nunu is an off-meta pick :)

Sasogwa1 votes

Meh. You could try it out and have fun with it, as long as you don't outright troll by feeding or something.

Edit : for example would you consider Yi top a trollpick? Cause I consistently win lane and games with it, in ranked as well

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Meh. You could try it out and have fun with it, as long as you don't outright troll by feeding or something.

Edit : for example would you consider Yi top a trollpick? Cause I consistently win lane and games with it, in ranked as well

Your example is quite different. Top lane is generally for tanks and fighters. As master Yi is a fighter, it is one of his intended roles. He has similar strengths to Irelia in that regard.

And you're forgetting that this is only a problem when the person feeds. When the troll pick works, no one cares. It doesn't matter. When they troll pick and fail miserably because their idea wasn't designed to work and no recent changes would allow it to, then they're trolling.

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