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You should probably just delete nidalee at this point (Revamped)

Hibeki··4 votes·1,060 views

Ok, my last thread was in a fit of rage, but it wasn't without a damn good reason.

I'm going to look at every single ability piece by piece to show the potential of each.

So, Nidalee Spear does BASE MAGIC DAMAGE: 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 / 150 (+40% AP) and MAXIMUM MAGIC DAMAGE: 150 / 225 / 300 / 375 / 450 (+120% AP)

At 10 minutes, an average Nidalee will have 100 Ap. Maybe recalled for a Blasting wand or a fiendish codex. Most AP's start with 40-45 AP with runes and a dorans ring.

Coupled with the AP per level, or masteries and the item you just bought, lets say you have 100 Ap at 10 minutes.

About 10-11 minutes is when solo laners hit level 6 (If nobody died in lane yet) So at about 14 minutes youll hit level 8 for a max damage spear (Assuming you put one point in everything else.)

Now here we are at 14 minutes, Nidalee will probably have somewhere between 120-130 AP at this point without snowballing.

At JUST 14 minutes, nidalee ALREADY has the damage potential of throwing 594 damage spears. With one ability, this is the biggest ramp in the game without snowballing. Not only does this Promote you playing ridiculously safe by asking you to hit spears at longer ranges, it rewards you for playing safer as well.

Now when you hit the target with one of your (Potential) 594 damage spears, here's what happens.

You received a large movement speed boost, and have the choice of either A: Increasing the already ramping damage on your execute by a third, or B: increasing your mobility by TRIPLE.

You heard that right, TRIPLE. The range on her W doubles, adding a second jump for free, while also resetting the cooldown to 1.5 seconds. While this may not be COMPLETELY triple, it still increases her mobility by 277.7%

This alone is almost uncontestable by anyone in the game that doesn't have a thresh lantern nearby or a burst of LONG mobility. Pretty much the only champion that may contest this is Leblanc.

Coupling with this amazing assassin power she still has UTILITY. More than enough utility to make up for her lack of her assassin based abilities. However it may not be as strong as it was before, it's still there, and still incredibly potent. Increasing your attack speed by .6 (yes, .6, attack speed doesn't work as you think it does.) and a strong single target heal.

This cannot be balanced while still maintaining playability, and being fun for both the player and the opponent.

15 Comments

LyraSona2 votes

she's fine

Hibeki2 votes

level 11

Seems legit.

JustMyBassCannon2 votes

Oh look, he deleted and re-posted it.

Because whining about spears damage is totally relevant, especially in the mobility meta.

You're not comparing her spears to anything else, just in a vacuum. Not only that, but you're assuming that 600 damage is too much at level 9 for a champion who doesn't have an ultimate or any other reliable ranged damage.

It's not even reliable, really. It's long-range, but it's one of the three slowest skill shots, it has a narrow missile, it stops at the first target, and the damage is fucked if they decide to step up instead of letting the spear come to them.

Hibeki1 votes

No Im assuming 600 damage (Which can be well over half of most champions health at this point) for a long ranged ability thats just one of six abilities is a problem. This is just at 14 minutes, this is at the EARLY game.

Whining about spears is totally relevent, thats why she was reworked in the first place.

She can throw spears faster than you can use mobility to dodge them. They will havel ess than a 4 second cooldown at 40% cdr.

Also, she has ridiculous amounts of mobility to keep up with mobility creep.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

It actually can't be over half of a champion's health unless they have no bonus MR, no bonus HP and she has full MPen. In which case, her opponent is playing like a fucking retard, because whichever lane she's in, that opponent has those options.

Actually, she was reworked because she was too dependent on her spears, not because they were too strong. Nidalee players still liked the long-range hunting aspect of her Javelin Toss, but they didn't really get the assassin-feeling kit they expected. They couldn't go in for the kill pre-6, and because her old Cougar form dealt more Physical than Magic damage, it ended up being builds based on which form you wanted to play. She lost a bit of spear damage because they made the rest of her kit relevant.

Is she going to somehow have 40% CDR in the laning phase? If so, why are you feeding her so fucking hard?!?

Hibeki2 votes

Despite the half hp being an exaggeration, there is no exaggeration that at just level 9 the spear can do over a third of your max hp.

Also, you act like what she gets at level 9 is the most she will get the entire game, no that's just the start.

By the end of the game she'll have 800 AP, and throwing 1410 damage spears.

And no, she was nerfed because at the pause between teamfights, if she hits anyone that's not a tank it forces them to recall and they can press an advantage. Nobody cares what the kit FEELS like, we care what the kit IS.

Her cougar form was a problem for exactly that. If it dealt mostly physical damage, that means she has massive split damage, so now you have to build TWO paths of damage resistance against her.

She doesn't have to have 40% cdr in lane phase, it's just the fact of the matter is, without snowballing and just a regular laning phase she can throw 600 damage spears willy nilly.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

{quoted}

Despite the half hp being an exaggeration, there is no exaggeration that at just level 9 the spear can do over a third of your max hp.

Again, if you have no bonus MR or HP.

Which is only barely justifiable if Nidalee is in bot lane and you're a Marksman. You still have options as a Marksman, just much more limited, and Marksmen are naturally squishy enough that this is actually accurate. Otherwise, you have no excuse aside from personal incompetence.

Also, you act like what she gets at level 9 is the most she will get the entire game, no that's just the start.

By the end of the game she'll have 800 AP, and throwing 1410 damage spears.

  1. Reduced to 1/3 damage if you are near her, so potentially 480 damage if you dash towards her (or 0 if you dash aside)
  2. It's not a targeted missile. It's actually one of the more narrow skill shots, and one of the three slowest (the other two being Morgana's Dark Binding and Anivia's Flash Frost).

You act like it's a guaranteed 1410 nuke, when in all reality, it's hard to land that shot. Or, at least, it's very rare that I get hit by it, personally.

And no, she was nerfed because at the pause between teamfights, if she hits anyone that's not a tank it forces them to recall and they can press an advantage. Nobody cares what the kit FEELS like, we care what the kit IS.

Which explains why her spears can still be that lethal. /sarcasm

I find it far more believable that Riot figured out that Nidalee players like the javelin's feel, but didn't like the horribly-split kit that kept her from feeling like an assassin. Because your explanation doesn't take into account the fact that Riot basically left her with her old design, but with some power shifting to make it less one-dimensional for players on both sides.

Her cougar form was a problem for exactly that. If it dealt mostly physical damage, that means she has massive split damage, so now you have to build TWO paths of damage resistance against her.

Actually, it was because of that split in focus that she needed changes; Nidalee players had to choose between the tanky AD Cougar build with a weak early game, or the gimmicky AP build that had a powerful spear, but no other valuable AP ratios.

She doesn't have to have 40% cdr in lane phase, it's just the fact of the matter is, without snowballing and just a regular laning phase she can throw 600 damage spears willy nilly.

Why bring up 40% CDR if that's not going to be important to the lane phase, about which we are arguing? That's what you call a red herring, a pointless point to throw out as a distraction, which detracts from your own points.

Yes, Nidalee can have 100 AP in the laning phase without snowballing. So can any other champion. And almost any of the champions who would want that much AP could deal similar or higher damage in comparison. No, not in one spell, and not at the same mana efficiency, but if there was no imbalance between units whatsoever, the game would be reduced to the simplicity and boredom of Chess.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

No Im assuming 600 damage (Which can be well over half of most champions health at this point) for a long ranged ability thats just one of six abilities is a problem. This is just at 14 minutes, this is at the EARLY game.

Whining about spears is totally relevent, thats why she was reworked in the first place.

She can throw spears faster than you can use mobility to dodge them. They will havel ess than a 4 second cooldown at 40% cdr.

Also, she has ridiculous amounts of mobility to keep up with mobility creep.

You forget that you can also walk out of the way.

They've yet to release a champion incapable of moving outside of using their mobility spell. Watch this space for 2k15 tho.

Hibeki2 votes

So now any skillshot is balanced on any champ cause they can walk out of the way. Yea no.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

So now any skillshot is balanced on any champ cause they can walk out of the way. Yea no.

I'm not saying she's balanced. I'm saying her spear cooldown being lower than your mobility spell's cooldown should not mean anything. You should not be entirely reliant on dashing to avoid a slow moving skill shot that most likely is coming from far away. Having mobility makes Nid's spear hard to hit but only in the sense that you can use it for when a spear landing on you is inevitable. If every Nid spear is actually likely to land on you unless you've got your mobility spell off cooldown then you need to look at your positioning, because a Nid spear should not be a threat to you more than every 20 seconds unless you're on ARAM.

The Fat Punisher2 votes

i tell my captain to Ban leblanc and nidalee every ranked game.

Hibeki2 votes

I'm not even going to go into how dumb the banning system is right now.

Lugg1 votes

Let's not forget that she can throw a spear every 5 seconds that does more damage than most of the ultimate's in the game. Yes, the spear is slow, but with jungle Nidalee now, she throws it from the bush and you never see it coming in time to dodge. Totally broken champion right now. They could literally half the damage of her spear and it she would still be good. It is her poke skill, don't make it OP. Compare her kit to Gangplanks.

Hibeki1 votes

"Harass"

warpenguin5551 votes

I made a thread on this kind of posts. try to find it and you can see the rest of this comment

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