The matchmaking system actively works against you climbing

Hibeki··136 votes·46,875 views

Currently as ranked is designed, the matchmaking actively tries to keep you from climbing. Which is wrong. It should be difficult, but it shouldnt be pushing you back harder than youre pushing it forward.

#1) The MMR on each player is not balanced accordingly.

The game by default will attempt to match you closer to your rank by MMR. So if youre 200 over the amount thats normal for your rank, it will pair you with people who are on loss streaks 200 below their rank, to balance the teams out.

Because its the same number right? Clearly they are equal in skill? WRONG. A player on a 30 winstreak from silver who meets someone on a 30 loss streak from platinum are not the same skill. One is gonna continue to climb and the other is going to continue to fall. Quit putting them together.

Just because 190 + 10 + 50 + 150 + 100 = 500 does not make that team equal against a 100 x 5 = 500 team. They are going to lose because of the two losers.

Quit puttin them together. It's not the same.

#2) Artificial difficulty in the ladder.

Promotion games make no sense. No other system in life works that way. Where you can do nothing but win games but only those three games matter, and if you lose two, doesn't matter, sucks for you.

Lets say I win/lose/lose my promos. then I win 2 more to get back into promos. Then win/lose/lose again.

Despite the fact that my win ratio is 50% better than my loss ratio, I will literally never climb.

The idea behind artificial difficulty in promotions is ridiculous. You clearly earned yourself to get to promotions to begin with, so why do only those three games matter? If you werent capable of climbing you wouldn't have gotten there in the first place.

Look at overwatch, they don't use that stupid system, and guess what? The curve on players in ranks is how it's supposed to be.

You realize the curve of player ranks in this game makes literally no sense right? 80% of the players should not be bronze and silver. It should be gold is the bell end of the most populated while bronze is about as filled as diamond is in terms of player mass.

#3) Why are promotional games different from normal ranked games?

This is no coincidence. Every single promotional game I have I have to do exceptionally well to pass. This normally wouldn't be a problem, but since it's promotionals you feel you have to put players with ones that have been doing exceptionally bad to 'prove themself'. Thats not how this game works.

On top of that, why does LP still calculate in promotionals? That makes literally no sense. My LP should not be changing in this time period. Its literally only a bad thing.

If you lose, you start with less LP than you came in with.

If you win, congratulations, you defied the odds and hope it doesn't go wrong the next time.

Literally the only way to fix how promotionals work is to either

A) Compensate players by giving them free loss preventions for getting winstreaks'

This could fix the system entirely. It lets good players deal with the shitty system and does nothing for the bad ones, as it should.

B) Give you multiple tries at promotions

or C) Both of the above.

Fix your bad system please. Im out of shit to say. /rant.

132 Comments

A Bad Nasus38 votes

The worst thing is how u can't go past 100 lp during promos. So if you win/lose/lose, depending on your mmr, you will have to win 2 games to get back to promos. However if you lose/win/lose, then you will only have to win one game to get back to series.

The system is hilariously bad.

option paralysis12 votes

I hate the mmr combination shit on the matchmaking especially. When I was in promos to d3, system matchmaked us like d4-d3-d4-master-challenger and similar on the enemy team. Luckily, we fuckin' won that game but c'mon, I shouldn't have to play vs challengers to get into d3. lol On paper, match looks balanced, but a d4 bot vs a challenger bot isn't balanced in game. And btw, add fucking autofill to all that shit, you get extremely unbalanced matches.

Spoofghoul7 votes

You are right auto fill does exacerbate the problem as did last season's dynamic queue

Making the game more snowball didn't help either

vOmvbrawfU2 votes

How is autofill the problem? Before autofill, you get 4th or 5th pick and you're essentially autofill anyway.

option paralysis6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sharkbait Ohaha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=al95MEjO,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-03-10T08:59:56.993+0000)

How is autofill the problem? Before autofill, you get 4th or 5th pick and you're essentially autofill anyway.

I main support this season, so it's not a problem for me, I just hate when I get a shaco one trick autofilled bot lane and guess what enemy bot lane is a master tier draven one trick. You know who's gonna win lane and game, the game is over in champ select and that's just retarded.

vOmvbrawfU3 votes

Yeah, I didn't mean specifically a problem for you. My point being that your example was different before autofill how?

Pre-autofill: 5th pick gets in the lobby and says, "I'm shaco 1 trick"...nobody switches Post-autofill: Autofill support gets in lobby and says, "I'm shaco 1 trick"...nobody switches

option paralysis3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sharkbait Ohaha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=al95MEjO,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2017-03-10T10:47:19.886+0000)

Yeah, I didn't mean specifically a problem for you. My point being that your example was different before autofill how?

Pre-autofill: 5th pick gets in the lobby and says, "I'm shaco 1 trick"...nobody switches Post-autofill: Autofill support gets in lobby and says, "I'm shaco 1 trick"...nobody switches

Exactly, why introduce "new champ select" so you can climb with 1 or 2 roles, and then introduce autofill that fucks you again. Doesn't make any sense. At least before, people weren't in fixed roles, but now when they finally get the one they want, they don't wanna switch with anyone because finally they didn't get autofilled. Before, people weren't that tilted with autofill or not and they'd actually switch/give roles a lot. At least that's my experience.

vOmvbrawfU3 votes

You're making it seem like you get autofilled in 67% of your games lol.

If we didn't have autofill, people would just bitch about queue times being stupidly long. It happened. And people didn't willing switch for support. Other roles, sure, but not support. Neither one of those have changed.

LA Losty2 votes

Yeah i just started climbing recently to get back to D1 like i was last season. Im in D4 with 70% winrate atm, but a few days ago i was still matched with Steve from LCS, who won 3rd place with Roccat and who is nr 46 in challenger with over 600 lp. Matchmaking can be weird in high elo at times. ^^

LeftyRaydy1 votes

There is less people at higher elo of course. I mean me being plat 3 only like 8% of the population is there and higher, and then in diamond 2% of the player population and higher. master tier is .4% and Challenger .3% its crazy how many players are in the lower ELO's?

LA Losty1 votes

Oi, ive stopped being active on the boards a long time ago as i dont play the game quite as seriously anymore. Just popped back to have a look and noticed your response. It was over a year since i had posted mine so have a late response in return :d. I actually ended up being around top 500 on EUW that season (S7) however i havnt attempted to climb since, only rushed diamond for the rewards and that was it. And yeah like 70% are silver or below, and plat+ is top 10%. Ive always liked the high skill curve in League, a shame that ranks barely mean anything this season though, early season ranked has ruined the integrity of the system (Which is why i actually went back to the boards to post). If you wanna see something real sad then have a look at my discussion. Otherwise, good day, should you still check in on the boards.

https://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/boXXGZ8W-two-of-the-worst-cases-from-the-new-ranked-system-ive-seen

Speeedy10 votes

when I'm the equivalent of a diamond 3-5 player in dota, but a silver 4 in LOL something is wrong with your system. I just seem to get idiots in my game who dont understand marco play or getting 1 kill then backing off while in laning phase. They love to turret dive with no minions to chase that second kill till they die or win a fight then siege forever without backing off and they come running out full health then wipe our team while i backed. Ranking up is nearly impossible because of stupid people in low elo.

The problem is the game is too reliant on your teammates for winning/raising your MMR. CS:GO I started a new account and got put in 3 games of 10 (during my placements) facing mid/high elo people right off the bat. my 4th game i was facing rank 13 of 18, with 18 being the highest. My main account rank is 18. After my placements I got placed in 16 of 18 (highest possible). If they have a system that calculate a player that well that quickly. Dota it only took me about 1-2 months to get to where my main account is placed but again i placed close and didnt have to gain a ton of MMR. Other games do it, but league has the worst placement system/distribution of players ever.

DarkfireAM2 votes

Then why can Diamond 3-5 players carry games fairly easy if the go down to Silver 4? Clearly you don't play at a Diamond 3-5 level lol.

Speeedy2 votes

its a different game skills dont 100% translate but im definitely better than a silver 4. I probly should be around gold 1 to low play in this game as of right now. ADC just is very hard to carry on early to mid game with the way the meta is currently.

DarkfireAM5 votes

Wow. I thought I had a big ego, but at least I have the winrates to back it up lol.

  1. You have a 52% winrate in Silver 4 out of 300+ games and you deserve Gold I? Ok, that's interesting.

  2. More then half your recent games you ARE the person whose feeding, yet you blame your team? On what planet does that make sense?

  3. There is no such thing as someone getting lucky from Silver V to Gold V, that's not luck that's just being better then other Silver players

  4. You have almost nonexistent kill participation in your games. How do expect to carry if you don't even help your own team?

  5. If ADC is so difficult to climb, once again why can Diamond ADC mains go to Silver and carry all their games?

Honestly it's just about admitting you're not as good at this game as you think you are. Right now you don't play at a Gold I level, thus you're not Gold I. This seems fairly self-explanatory, yet people want to come on boards and cry that they can't win their games because Riot has some personal vendetta against them.

Yes, and I deserve challenger, but my troll teammates are holding me back. Fix your game Riot...

Ok. Rant over.

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

There is literally no excuse to be hardstuck in silver. Players there make so many mistakes you can take advantage on. The only thing you are rather good at is csing but also only in games who seem to be in your favor. That's one thing to focus on. But it's not hardto have decent cs 30 min into the game. What is important is to get that 100 cs at 10 min and 200 and 20 min everything beyond is uninteresting at this point you most likely won the game. Your KP is way too low overall especially as a team reliant role like adc. Your build is strange sometimes. Against a full squishy no armor team your third item is last whisper. Just why? For that 1300 you could have bought another BF sword and could have gone straight for BT or a zeal for more MS and crit= DPS. OR a vamp scepter and a long sword. In one ezreal game you already had FrozenFist but you were still going for Trinity? Just... why? Phage and Stinger= huge waste of gold after iceborn. In your support games, idk what BC builds currently but you would help your team so much better with locket, redemption and FoTm instead of going for sunfire and spirit visage. Your ward count is pathetic. In a 47 min game you placed 9 wards. 9 and one control ward. In 80% of your games you don't even buy one control ward. You can't expect your teammates to ward for you in silver 4. Heck you can't do that in diamond. you dont go for sweeper trinket on BC and what is actually sad is that none of your teammates went for red trinket as well in most of your games. Fuck that blue trinket, go for red trinket if noone on your team builds it. Vision WINS games and vision denial even more so. If you focus on my critised points you will definitely climb alone by that can't help you otherwise since i cant judge your mechanics (micro and macro).

Flying Eggplant8 votes

Don't forget they've artificially made it more difficult to demote between ranks, so if someone gets boosted into dia/plat but belongs in silver, they'll sit at dia/plat 5 ruining games for much longer than they should before falling back down. Same (although to a lesser degree) for people who hit lucky streaks during placements and place higher than they really should, and then can't get back down to where they belong because Riot thinks its "unfun" when you demote.

terribleplAyr7 votes

I agree with a lot of what you said and your argument seems valid. I didn't read ever bit of your post, but 2/3 of it. I agree with you - especially this season matchmaking has just been freaking atrocious. Half the idiots posting on the boards claim everyone is in their proper rank, the other half that they are being held back. You have people in diamond and plat smurfing in silver or bronze and saying there are games they cannot carrry. Well if that is the case, how the hell is someone who should be gold ever going to win enough games in a row to get out of silver? Or a silver climb out of bronze?

"You realize the curve of player ranks in this game makes literally no sense right? 80% of the players should not be bronze and silver. It should be gold is the bell end of the most populated while bronze is about as filled as diamond is in terms of player mass. " - I think this is an interesting idea, but kinda misses the problem/distracts from it. I peaked gold 4 last season before ending gold 5. I was finally playing at a rank where people had the skill to challenge me 1v1 rather than needing a jungler to camp me to keep me from snowballing and a snowballing bot lane or mid to ensure I couldn't carry. I didn't suddenly lose the skill level I had last season. But matchmaking has gotten way worse. I could care less if I were bronze 5 with 90% of the community being placed in bronze if I could only get balanced matches.

Ex: Nasus top vs zed. I have tp and flash, zed takes exhaust and flash. Shaco with ignite camps for zed. By level 6, I am solo killing them both - traded kills before this every 1.5 min or so when they would gank. Nearly pick up 3rd kill on roaming yasuo mid with him blowing ignite too. So you'd think if I can practically 1v3 by level 6 we win right? Nope, team just feed, feed, then feed some more. And somehow because I build intelligently but not exact items from some website, I am trash and it is my fault we lose. Cuz when your toplane nasus has best kda, and solo's his opponent while team dies 4v4 or 3v3 defending a tower and picks up 0 kills it is nasus's fault? People in bronze and silver have 0 logic, cry "toxic" to anyone asking them to not make idiot engages and chases no matter how nicely it is stated, and flame teammates for not 1v5 contesting drag or baron. I even had a mid recently basically acknowledge that a shotcall I made as a support would be the best call but state our team could not do it because we were not plat/diamond. So you are telling me we cannot do something as simple as let an enemy lane push out (so I can actually engage as leona support, so we can exploit our lead and kill them in laning phase)? Hello. If it is a good play, it is a good play. Just because you are not in diamond/plat doesn't mean you can't make simple good decisions to maximize your potential while minimizing risk. #buffteammatespls

Hibeki7 votes

all finishing gold means is you should be statistically AVERAGE.

But because people start at bronze and silver in a game where teams matter, they are stuck with incompitent people. A huge chunk of the bronze/silver demographic (id say about 30%) have the huge potential to climb high, but because they started with the bottom of the bucket they have no chances to improve.

In order to solve the bell end they need to do a complete ranked reset. Everyone starts at gold MMR, the bad people will fall and the good people will rise, and the higher ranks (plat and above) will start to be filled with people who deserve it, especially newer players.

I was brand new in overwatch, but got placed in platinum. You CAN be new to a game and good at it.

Glory ln Death1 votes

The ranking system isn't meant to be a bell curve, though. It's supposed to be a pyramid - the most people on the bottom with fewer and fewer people the higher up you go.

Honestly, using your "bell curve" approach seems like it would have the same problems as the current system, and potentially more. Having everyone start out in gold means both the best players and the worst players are all together. Good players can still get dragged down by crappy teammates, and bad players can still get boosted by really good teammates.

And because you're concentrating the lowest tiers with only the absolute worst players, it will be even harder than it currently is to climb out of "elo hell" for players who get the short end of the matchmaking RNG stick when they start ranked. At least right now you have a good chance of getting decent players on your team mixed in with the Wood V players.

Hibeki3 votes

That eliminates the whole point of a competitive game though.

Starting at the bottom gives you nowhere to fall and if you have high potential doesnt allow it to come into play because of the people you are with.

Gold is the average in every competitive game out there that uses ELO and they dont have nearly as many matchmaking problems as we do.

It doesn't have problems. Overwatch, Dota 2, you name it, all have this system and it works

ELO hell would be that, hell. But you don't start in ELO hell. You start in gold.

You only reach that point when you fall into bronze and silver. But at that point since there isn't 90% of the playerbase at that point it's reliable to climb out if you don't belong there by stomping them.

Bronze and Silver wouldn't have fluxuating skill levels, so everyone in your games would be garbo, and if you are not garbo, you will win.

But you get placed in gold. If you arent garbo, you wont fall there.

AdeBug2 votes

{quoted}

You have people in diamond and plat smurfing in silver or bronze and saying there are games they cannot carrry. Well if that is the case, how the hell is someone who should be gold ever going to win enough games in a row to get out of silver? Or a silver climb out of bronze? [...] Nasus top vs zed.

I've seen bronzies kill plats too, as rare as it is, it happens and you have to ask yourself, who belongs where, really? I never saw a game won with zed top tho :D It's a troll pick and they always feed, sometimes beyond repair

terribleplAyr1 votes

It was more accurately a feeding zed plus shaco top who could only trade even at best despite having ignite AND exhaust vs my tp. And when it turned into 2 for 0 wins by me - living at low hp - yasuo would come top full hp with ignite to finish what shaco and zed could not. The point being, nasus should not be able to farm up like that when shaco is ganking every 1.5 min - he should be getting zoned off a bunch of cs and xp or be dying and feeding -- but I didn't. Yet when a nasus can 1v2 anyone by 20 min into game, you'd think the rest of his team could manage to at least hold a tower and not feed while he splits to victory, but nope. Being able to 1v2 or 1v3 isn't enough. And you get flamed for not being able to 1v4 after team dies vs 3 enemies under their own tower. Games like that, everyone on nasus's team needs investigation for being boosted or troll or inting. And even if they were not, why do people always have their one "bad game" when they are on certain player's teams? Never when on the enemy's team, just mine or people like me who are getting screwed.

AdeBug2 votes

I hear you, I had a game where I literally reported my 4 allies for inting, they weren't just bad, they were beyond words, like at what point will they actually stop and realize: I died 10 times in a row, maybe I should play safer now?

justbronzethings

xxxDogmanxxx7 votes

Even if the average player should be in Gold, the fact of the matter is that they're not. The average player is in Bronze. The majority of the playerbase is skewed towards the lower end of the skill ladder. In order to climb, you should be not just better, but MUCH better than the average in your rank. This is true for everybody who's climbing the ladder.

Since that's the case, then it really doesn't matter if matchmaking is actively working to prevent you from climbing. The goal is to improve so much as a player that you become far ahead of everybody in your rank and essentially FORCE the system to promote you. Everybody who has ever climbed has gone through that, so it's only fair that you go through it too if you want to climb.

LightIsMyPath3 votes

Actually the average player is around silver 3 (about the mmr placed upon a new account starting ranked ).. That's where the medium mmr is

DarkfireAM5 votes

They want to climb higher without working to actually climb higher.

I'll never understand this childish mentality that Riot owes you wins because you can kill your lane opponent once or twice.

Bweller3 votes

"everbody who has ever climbed has gone through that, so it's only fair that you go through it too"

That logic right there has been used to justify traditions and practices long past their effectiveness. And has exacerbated many kinds of injustices. "The people before me did it" logic is no defense. No matter what it is, something has to stand on its own merit. So even if you are right- it should stand without that bit.

vOmvbrawfU6 votes

Lets say I win/lose/lose my promos. then I win 2 more to get back into promos. Then win/lose/lose again.

Despite the fact that my win ratio is 50% better than my loss ratio, I will literally never climb.

Don't you get a free win in your promos if you make it there and fail? So if you lose the first time, and win the first game your second time, you're into a higher division.

Promos aren't the problem with ranked. The complete shit show of players is the problem. They halved the xp required to reach level 30. So now you have even more players that literally have no idea what they're doing playing in mid silver elo games. They weigh the first games of your provisional far too much (to benefit smurfs). So if you get lucky and win your first 2 games you're pretty much guaranteed silver. Then, they make it virtually impossible to get demoted. So you're not going to get demoted to bronze unless you lose like 100 games in a row. This creates an environment where you're not judged by ability, but rather your ability to carry, sprinkled in with some luck of who is going to get the more shitty players on their team (you know, the autofill supports who don't even have a keystone. wut.). Then the "yolo carries" are the ones that climb. So then gold/plat is populated with the "fuck you I carried myself here" players that get mad if you try and give them advice about something they're doing wrong.

I don't know, I just think there should actually be a difference between normal games and ranked games. There currently is not. People "try new things" just as much, if not more, in ranked than they do in norms. Nothing else is like this. It's why the community is so "toxic". Because you have half the team not giving a fuck and not trying and playing something they've never played before and going 0-6-0 in lane, and you have the other half really frustrated that they're stuck wasting 45 mins of their life every time they get these people in a game. Creates a very negative environment.

Couple easy things I think we can do to make the game more competitive. #1 Require champion mastery of X level before being able to play them in ranked. Stops people from playing shit in ranked that they've never played before. #2 Reverse the stupid XP drop to hit level 30. It literally does not do a single thing good except cater to smurfs. #3 Actually punish trolling players. They have a grand unit for "toxicity" in chat, but I feel like they have 1 part time worker handling reports against trolls. I reported a player for going AFK, looked at his OP.gg and saw that he has AFKd in like 30 of his last 40 games. I sent in a support ticket. Since that support ticket, this player has AFKd in many many more games. No ban whatsoever. It doesn't make sense. I'm literally handing you a trolling player, with screenshots. You have to do none of the work yourself, yet it goes on. It's stupid.

Lupxel6 votes

If it is hard to everyplayer, then it isn't harder for any player

DarkfireAM3 votes

Riot is looking at all their matches and putting them specifically with bad teammates.

SilentBomber4 votes

I agree with everything.Matchmaking makes no sense.

Mocking Shout3 votes

Agreed with OP. I've experienced first hand every point you made.

I'm Silver in 5v5 for both Solo and Flex. I play against golds/plats/diamonds regularly in Flex and 3v3 and I win many of those lane match-ups and sometimes the game. I've been playing this game since S1 and had played 10,000 games of DoTA before LoL came out... I know what my skill is. When the matchmaking system pairs you with players who actually have half a god damn brain, it's no problem winning the games. I often get some nice win streaks then hit a brick wall at promos. It pairs me with people on huge loss streaks (i use opgg to spec teammates) who are tilted af and almost guaranteed to feed. Sometimes my skill carries me through and I win games I should have lost, but its ridiculous how the game just changes from the regular ladder to promos. I've noticed a similar effect when getting to B1/S1 (although bronze is stupid easy to climb out of, despite the que trying to fuck me over).

I've never had the time or desire to "grind out the games" under these circumstances so I've never hit Gold + I haven't played since S5 so I had to start this season at Bronze 3-4 in 3v3/Flex. I'm now G2 in 3v3 (hit gold under 100 total games from bronze3), I can actually win games in 3v3 because there's no bot lane feed meta and a less chance overall to get shitters. I'm floating between S2 and S1 in Flex, literally everytime I get a few wins over .500 it starts to match me with the worst of the worst. Especially after winning promos into S1. I don't mind losing a fair and competitive game but most of these games I didn't even get a chance to compete since it was already over by midgame.

I'm S3 in Solo after going 7-3 in promos. This was more curse than blessing since my MMR is constantly higher than my rank (since the game is dumb and should have placed me in S1 to begin with) so I'm always getting the most stupid teammates until I drop 2-3 wins under .500 then it starts to give me players with half a brain again until I get 2-3 wins over .500. Can it please just make both teams fair and make the game competitive? I know its possible since other games have fair matchmaking...

I play against people that are higher ranked than me with worse win/loss ratios and worse skill as evidenced by me defeating them in the game. I'm pretty frustrated with it all and I just plain don't have the time to spend running around in circles when I know the caliber of player that I am.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes
  1. Source on this being how it works?

  2. Have you ever gone to school in your life and had to take a final exam?

  3. Source on this being how it works? And they're different because they're the promotional game.

Hibeki7 votes
  1. Several times you will find people who are much higher than your rank but have had a loss streak so their mmr tanks.

  2. Yes I have, the exam is 30% of your grade, not ALL OF IT. If I 100% the rest of your class, I'll still be fine even if i do badly on the exam. Its not make or break.

  3. see #1

JuhnChan2 votes

I've had classes where the final is 70% of your grade. Tests are the other 30%. Homework is worth 0.

Aced 'em.

But I'm still stuck at Silver V 0 LP

D:

Hibeki3 votes

Then why did you take those classes, they sound absolutely garbage to me.

ƒrenet ƒrame2 votes

The fact that you take the time to write this post instead of focusing on improving your gameplay is why you are whatever elo you aren't happy with. Improve and you will ranked up, it's very simple.

Hibeki3 votes

That's not true. I'm about 50/50 winrate, but still steadily climbing, which makes no sense.

Climbing with a 50/50 winrate is a very clear sign the biggest reason im losing is wrenches being thrown in by other teammates.

Pumpanickl2 votes

I like that so much.

"Just because 190 + 10 + 50 + 150 + 100 = 500 does not make that team equal against a 100 x 5 = 500 team. They are going to lose because of the two losers."

This says just everything about matchmaking. Its far from anykind of beeing fair or balanced. To climb from Bronze you need to be godmode and premade, otherwise no way. At least not in a healthy amount of games. One may be able to compensate one or even two bad players, but only if they start to play safe and wait for the right opportunities. But is just never happening.

We question ourselfes, what do we do wrong, how can we improve? But dont waste too much time into it. If you feed that game, you know it. If you suffer from wrong positioning you feel it as well immediatly. And if your bot goes 1/5, 0/4 and jungle 0/5, its not your mistake. You just cant do anything about it anymore. Games is just over. League is a teambased game, as such you cant win it in. RAMBO-Mode is just a myth.

To all that "I carried myself out" guys. I am happy for you. But consider it that way: Your are just the opposite of the "You cant carry yourself out" guys. Same as winning/loosing streaks. So dont be proud about it. Next season it may hit you. See you in Elohell.

... and always remember: There are so much more things to do, than feeding a system that may be designed like that to keep people trying and failing.

HF

joker bam bam1 votes

If bot and jgl feds , and you did nothing to change it , you are playing just as bad as them rofl. As a midlaner or a toplaner , there is no way those scores happen unless u play terrible bad.

Rabort2 votes

Haha, you are the cancer that is killing league.

If you're top, and JUNGLE FEEDS.

Apparently according to this guy it's YOUR FAULT. That makes YOU just as bad as them.

Hahaha... this is why the matchmaking system is cancer, because it caters to people like you.

joker bam bam1 votes

If you are so ahead as u think u are , and u couldn't impact mid or botlane , it means that u were just delusional and u never got that ahead . Their jungler can't invade your topside jungle if you are ahead top , and if you are ahead enough u can just ward his jungle , and kill him once you push.

Rabort3 votes

Are you an idiot? I shouldn't be hard carrying or being hard carried by anyone. The basis of a team game is TEAMWORK.

Even If I am better than my bot, it dosen't mean I can carry their entire lane for them if I'm top. The only role that can realistically do that is jungle.

If I have to 1v3 every game (which i actually do 40% of my games) that means they're something wrong.

Yerin J2 votes

Lost 11 games in a row, from feeding junglers, ADCs. For some reason only those 2 roles feed. They dont listen, dont play safe when they go 0 8 in lane (ADC) and dont farm or gank or group (Junglers). I dont know what to do, I experienced with Feedng junglers first which is why I try playing with a premade jungler in solo/duo, I dont even tell them to gank me, I tell them to gank other lanes but for the past 3 games I have seen 0 8 adcs that dont communicate and keep dying. The support doesnt feed its just the adc. I dont want to be salty but im getting kinda pissed off, What the hell can I do now. I dont flame is they go 0 3-4 becuase they might just have a bad game but when I repeatedly tell them to hug tower or dont push too far without vision or first tower and they dont listen, thats when Im pissed. WHAT THE HELL CAN I DO.

pardnerz2 votes

Welcome to the promos to get you out of the hell hole known as bronze oh btw we still put you with bronzes and i get it you arent playing adc so we give you a support who when you go to help them will hook the support instead of the adc whos doing the damage also we will be sure to hit you up with the hard core 0/9/2 cait who cant finish a single item and the toxic top lane and the jg who doesnt gank and signals he is and then you signal you are going in and he sits in the bush-A rough explanation of what happens in your promos for anything besides plat

what you can do to fix this play adc or just feed mid cause you give up on life and then take a breath of fresh air and think i want to die

emanon dupits2 votes

they don't care, otherwise they would of fixed the system years ago. stop spending money on them and their products until they do.

RookPusher2 votes

I'm sad that this was a necro because for the first time in awhile I felt alive.

Vargrjalmer2 votes

At 97 lp before promo's, win, start with zero lp, win one, get 18 lp, lose one, lose 20. oh yeah, and then if you lose promo's, you're down to like 75.... you have to win INFINITELY more games than you lose to climb.

Garlic Butter1 votes

Per the rules of Grammar and English, ignore information supplied in Parenthesis if you do not need additional explanation. Barebones information bolded.

No no, huge misunderstanding in what you based your logic on(remember logic is NOT universal its highly conditional and individualistic if set parameters are not given to adjust): It works similarly to the following (and has been stated as such since I am just paraphrasing and adding some numbers for relational clarity): The match making system pairs you vs slightly better than you players (particularly in ranked, but see promos later), meaning they should be 1-20% more skilled than you, at 90% skill for instance a 1% skill increase can represent 4x more QUALITY practice(vs incorrect practice that harms your skills and reinforces errors)** than the previous 90% combined, so the "gap" seems increasingly larger the more skilled you are even tho its droping from 20% better than you to a mere 1%.**

It primarily and foremost matches you based on your win %, plat+ has 70%+ win rate per player so if you have a high win rate you will get "shifted" to be vs "equal or more skilled opponents" (getting trolled by challengers when you are only silver for instance). Once you are around 80% win rate (this is especially so if you have superb team work skills but low role skills, as it will place you much faster vs harder opponents the more "competent" you are at a team based game (tl;dr: while a soloist or top lane might get to diamond via mechanics alone, most people sitting in diamond+ actually have fairly poor mechanics(low skill) but excellent natural team work(synergy) which is also technically a mechanical skill. coupled with good old fashioned luck of getting grouped with like minded people(you are ALSO getting group with like minded people, its just your mindset and playstyle is not compatible with a team game so your groups might be like nails on chalkboard or the equivalent of an IT group of strangers vs a group of playground sports team whom all knew each other since childhood; though do note that this does NOT work out the same 4 man or less groups (premade) but does work roughly the same in 5 v 5 premade(which doesn't really exist outside of pros).

3rd During promos you are INTENTIONALLY paired with a group slightly lower than your skill(but usually in the bracket you are trying to enter!) and AGAINST a group(meaning all members on the team, vs just your heavily preferred role/lane(in the soloist example, solo top, or support, or jungle, it essentially looks at your over all statistic instead of role statistics unlike normal ranked matches) with MUCH higher skill/the logic of the algorithim is heavily favoring (probably 52-53% chance for them to win), it is working as intended that you should not progress in series (without competent help from your team mates as they are also a metric in this but it gets way wordier than this to add in all those variables) as Riot's refined match making system pairs you to have a roughly 49-51% win rate and tries very hard to pair you against opponents it THINKS (using logic) you should LOSE to, if you win, subsequent matches will get exponentially more difficult each win in the streak and your MMR will change dramatically for your promo series. On "average" you should: win 1, lose 1, win 1, then 50:50 to advance, if you win 1, win 1, win 1, promote, you either a) had excellent team mates and team work, or carried hard while micromanging the entire game. Of course you can game the match making system just as easily as it tries to exploit you and put you on a lose strict certain days. Generally if you are actually successfully climbing ladder you should be easily maintaining a 70% win rate, and not playing days you aren't.

Summed up: Your logic has a key flaw. The system is Working as Intended, you are supposed to lose your promos (according to the logic(math version btw) of the match making algorithm).

You CAN game this by intentionally abusing the algorithms logic(lose games it thinks you are supposed to win, avoid winning games too "well"), though this only works when there is a large player pool in your grouping to work with(so diminishes in effectiveness around platinum). Another good way to game the system, is: if you are on a win streak, and suddenly enter a promos, test the waters the first promo to see if you win, if you do not STOP PLAYING that day and do not resume your promo until you get the "feeling." (your intuition mentions to you "right now is a good time to play" this is a very specific feeling and not to be confused with the "I want to" feeling (which is eerily similar but is generated by your irrational parts (ego) rather than your intuitive/logic parts) despite their similarities, DEFINITELY listen if you get the "DON'T" feeling (that strong sensation like when a monster is charging at you and you are genuinely debating to fight or flee despite your body telling you fully to flee) though this might be a rare feeling if you aren't in touch with yourself/fully tested and confident in your own limitations and accepted what you can, and cannot do.)

some asides on winning vs losing: So, the system only looks at your skill performance and potential (how you act, behave, and preform. Not how you are feeling, how well nourished you are at that time, etc), there are tons of variables you can control that it can't predict for (and why you can have a 70%+ win rate). If you consistently make mistakes, the system knows it and adjusts, if you rarely make mistakes or always play flawlessly, it will be very harsh if you are ever "not feeling at peak performance." You will get the most accurate MMR if you only play when you are preforming at your peak (look how few games logged pros have on their "main" in ranked vs when they want to "climb" the ladder again on an alternate account/learn different roles), as it will always be the most honest metric of your maximum potential, playing at ANY OTHER TIME of day/day of the month will get you a highly flawed MMR that will do everything you are complaining about encountering.

**There is a lot of excellent advice in the reddit league of legends on how to not lose your promos, worrying about succeeding is probably the most crippling thing you can do/feel for it(anything really) however, but the basic gist of all the advice requires one to entirely change their mindset, perspective(s), attitude, and way of approaching things, which given the inherent flaws in the initial parameters you based the logic in your post on, as you currently have a defeatist/judging style, instead of an accepting/evaluating(introspective?) learning focused style you have a huge mental block from progressing successfully. **

If you are not interested in all that and want to trailblaze or be a genius instead of common/normal, you will have to come up with your own different ideas how to compensate for whatever is holding you back, your own unique style, rather than seeking information on forums or guides, experiment on your own and find your own way, lots of people in all the brackets playing that way too, and each uniquely successful. I would recommend simple experiments like playing at times of day you never play instead of being consistent, you might find a sweet "hour" once a week its best to play in and you win 100% of your matches.

~~A fun side bit of truth: You are only going to win, when you are going to win, (if winning it is the only thing that matters to you,) don't bother playing at other times. (this is how all "RNG" systems work btw, and has to do with determinism in physics (probability and statistics is actually hogwash, and only relevant in economics (completely doesn't apply in any other area, and still only loosely(but reliably) in low-risk investment(wager/gamble) environment of economics)

How to read action-consequence chains to determine when you will win and won't is another matter however(and while when you "won't" win is for certain, when you will win has more variables(the latter is a consequence function of your actions, while the former is related to consequence chains from a long time ago you have no control over other than being present for their events or not. For instance, you will never "win" if you never play at the times when you would (or could depending on how well you picked from your available choices(door number 1, 2, 3, Xnth#@? why underneath the floor of course!)after weighing the cost/benefit of the consequences of that action). Random Number Generators try very hard to mimic this real life determinism thing with MMRs, Secret PID Seeds on account creation, username choices, etc, but they all fall mercilessly into highly predictable patterns unless the same RNG is used universally for all players without error or adjustment (which would mean when anyone wins, everyone with them would also win, etc) but also why things like "personal loot" is desirable (a private RNG JUST for you, which could be great, or balls luck depending on your "luck").

(clarity: in league, except during promos, it displays how many points you lose/win in a match: If you lose a lot more points than the average number riot gave: You lost a match the system's logic thought you would win (a very bad thing for your LP), if you win very few points (4-6) you crushed it in a game the system already thought you would win, if you lose/gain exactly 10 points you are playing exactly as the system predicts for your with its logic and are not improving or regressing (meaning if you keep up that play consistently you will win 51% of your games and slowly climb, but see ALL the above on how that gets partially thrown out for your promos specifically).~~

Ultra tl;dr: The game is sided to be intentionally more difficult than your current skills because a Homo Sapiens Sapiens cannot increase their skill unless the task is at least slightly challenging (and worse if it is not challenging you may actually encounter skill regression, depending on which brain type you have). Easiest way to win your promos is A) Change your Attitude or B) Take a break and don't come back to complete them till the "right" time.

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