Lets outline the most important issues for the game right now

Hibeki··122 votes·5,667 views

Lets show collectively all in one thread the BIGGEST issues for the game all around that need changed. I'm not talking "Oh gromp needs his armor lowered by 2" or graphical updates, I'm talking gameplay issues.

Lets start by the obvious

Damage Creep

Damage is higher than any other meta right now. Keystones, masteries, and items and base kits make it so obliterating someone is easier than ever, and champions who buy just a single offense item item 3071 can obliterate anyone in 1v1's. Damage creep is so high that ADC's are the best damage dealers because of the safer range they have.

Damage needs lowered ACROSS THE BOARD. I really don't see being obliterated from QWE in .5 seconds an appropriate way for the game to be played.

Counterplay matters

Lately champions have been coming out with little counterplay in mind. All of them theoretically have counterplay of "Don't be in range" or "Dodge the skillshot", but that applies to every champion in the game. More counterplay needs to be added against specific champions. This does not mean you add it to every champion to counterplay every other champion (looking at youitem 3116 )

Kiting

Half the champions in the game aren't viable because it's too easy to kite them. Mobility is at an all time high, and items like item 3116 item 3044 item 3022 item 3025 effectively mean you will not get away from them and you will never get to them. Champions that once saw play like Garen Tryndamere Udyr Renekton but now every champion has two dashes, a stun, and two slows, on top of the items meaning they will never get anywhere and are forced to be played like a pest and split push.

Tank stats don't matter unless you are ahead

Building dedicated tank on anyone but a select few champions is a death sentence. Armor shred and armor pen is so easy to acquire that unless you build bruiser and have damage to fight with you aren't soaking ANYTHING. You are either a Utility tank like Nautilus Malphite or not at all.

Range vs Melee matchups are way too one sided to be considered fair

Just by being a ranged champion can put so much pressure that that fact alone will drive them out of cs almost permanently. It is not surprising to see a ranged vs melee matchup to have a double farm advantage. Ranged champions being able to keep you from csing UNDER TOWER is even worse.

Courtesy of Fondling Gems-

League is a major combination of 3 important points.

  1. Skill. Being able to outplay opponents is an important component of any game.
  2. Game knowledge. An important element of League is being able to predict what is going on, knowing what fights you can take, and being able to exercise excellent decision making to build an advantage.
  3. Teamwork. Teamwork and communication is a very important element of any team game.

Now lets analyze why Instant damage is both good, and bad, for these points. Skill

Pros:

Means that regardless of your health if you are capable of avoiding and dealing damage for a short amount of time you can take most fights.

Highlights reflexes.

Cons:

Means that a small mistake is the end of you, there is no room for error. It also heavily punishes people who are more focuses on the other areas and less skill based.

It means the meta is whomever is the best at dealing large amounts of damage in a short time while avoiding enemy damage.

Results: High amounts of damage in the game has roughly equal punishment and reward for high skill players, but harshly hurts people who play from say, a game knowledge standpoint. It also hurts the viability of other champions. Game Knowledge

Pros:

High damage rewards players who are good at catching enemies out. It helps assassins do well in killing a target then escaping.

Cons:

When power creep reaches high enough levels it doesn't make much difference what role you are trying to fill. It becomes a game of either being the killer, or being able to lock down the killer so your killers can kill them.

It changes fights from being strategic fights into skill based ones. What does it matter if I could play Nautilus and know I can chain my cc long enough then Q to a wall to make you chase me into my team when it takes me 1/2 a second to decide on my course of action and I am dead in 3/4 of a second? The faster a fight is the less room there is for decision making. It becomes a kill or be killed game. The mindset is how best to abuse your kit to do damage and avoid damage instead of how best to utilize your kit to do what your kit is designed to do. For example J4's kit is built around tanking and disrupting. However due to damage creep his kit is played around gapclosing to one shot people. It stops using game knowledge on how to trick enemies and utilize different tricks and only focuses on how best to kill people, nothing else.

It pushes people out of using the tricks in their kits and into following the exact same kill pattern over and over. Example: During the tank meta I played a lot of Naut. Even when my goal was to keep fighting I would sometimes Q to a wall just to buy times for my cds. Now 90% of fights I just blindly use my abilities on my target whenever they are up because the name of the game is League of Legends killing. Why would I ever Q the Kha'zix jumping on my adc when my adc is going to be dead before my Q hits Kha? Better to Q the Syndra instead so it is a 1 for 1 trade.

Results (Slightly biased because I am a very game knowledge heavy player, not a skill based one): Speaking from my own perspective while there are still as many decision to make outside of combat, they aren't added to by damage creep. In combat however the options available to me are a fraction of what they used to be. I USED to be able to peel a Zed if I played well. Now? Zed can use his W as a gapcloser and still kill my adc before I can do shit. My best hope at that point is Qing his shadow in the hopes of catching him when he jumps back and cc killing him in return for my carry. Suddenly I no longer have the option of peeling for my backline as an engage tank. I am either our engage and that is it, or I am little more than a cc bot trying to stand next to both my carries at once. That is 50% of my combat decision making now. Teamwork

Pros:

I am blanking on this. I tried man, I tried.

Cons:

How is my team supposed to react and help if I die in 2 seconds? Collapse and fight a 4v5? What is teamwork when the game is which team can sacrifice fewer damage dealers to kill more?

Results: More damage means less chance to help out allies. In fact trying to help them often means just taking a buttload of aoe damage and promptly dying a few seconds later

Anything i missed? Add more below.

139 Comments

Enloct39 votes

{quoted} but now every champion has **three ** dashes, a stun, and **three ** slows, and an 80% movespeed buff

FTFY Ekko

Mobility creep is pretty much the root of all cancer. Uncatchable champions are unkillable. The things a champion needs to kill someone like Ekko or Nidalee are so unfair those champions have to be broken as well. You basically have to snare/stun and drop 3000k damage with 0 warning to actually kill the meta champs these days.

Rengar - the hero we need to not need.

No flash no life35 votes

Player base. Everything else is relatively less significant.

Ralanr9 votes

Yeah, but everything else is more easily fixed.

Crett28 votes

I've been going on about this for a while, but I think %health damage needs a pass as well. It does have merit for the reasons Riot stated in the dev blog but I think it's way too common in it's current state. Makes playing a tank feel pretty bad.

LankPants4 votes

I've been going on about this for a while, but I think %health damage needs a pass as well. It does have merit for the reasons Riot stated in the dev blog but I think it's way too common in it's current state. Makes playing a tank feel pretty bad.

This is a double edged sword however, in order to function most tanks currently need %HP damage. There are exceptions to this, for example Sejuani's own HP scaling probably means that you could tune her kit to not have %HP on it (I'd also personally like to see this done at some point) and Malphite gets away without %HP damage due to his E reaching a 70% uptime with CDR and forcing you to kill or peel him if you want your ADC to do anything.

Most tanks are pretty reliant on the %HP damage in their kits, if you take away Maokai's, Poppy's or Sion's they lose their ability to deal any damage to bruisers and tanks in the top lane. If you take away Amumu's he becomes completely worthless as a champion.

Tanks also don't get destroyed as hard as most people think they do by %HP damage. Basically it doesn't matter if you take 500 raw damage from a crit or 500 raw damage because you take 16% of your HP at 3.1K, you get the same end result.

Because of these factors tanks currently gain a lot more from the %HP damage on their kits than they lose from %HP damage at large.

MrWasjig5 votes

I think you misunderstand, we're not talking about tanks that deal damage from an ability based on their HP%.

When referring to %HP damage most usually refer to damage that scales off the target's HP, of which there is an absolute abundance of. It's one of the biggest reasons so many people are saying that playing straight up tank is worthless, because so many kits have %HP damage on them (usually %MaxHP damage which is truly egregious in it's current abundance).

LankPants1 votes

I think you misunderstand, we're not talking about tanks that deal damage from an ability based on their HP%.

I'm not either, I think that should be evident from my example with Sejuani, if you read back over it.

When referring to %HP damage most usually refer to damage that scales off the target's HP, of which there is an absolute abundance of.

There is an absolute abundance of %HP damage on tanks too. Amumu , Maokai , Sejuani , Sion , Zac all have some and that's not an exhaustive list. Tanks have a disproportionate amount of %HP damage, more than any other class.

MrWasjig2 votes

You said it yourself though, tanks need it to remain at least somewhat of a threat in fights.

Tanks with HP% damage are not what people have gripes about though, because tanks are not egregiously out of control.

Want an example of such a thing? Ekko Did he need %MaxHP damage tacked onto his kit? Fuck no, but there it is. That's the sort of thing that people have issues with when it comes to %MaxHP damage.

LankPants3 votes

I'll definitely agree with you on that one, Ekko's whole kit just seems like a series of bad ideas to me.

Michael70218 votes

Dynamic Queue and the awful matchmaking that comes with it.

Blanchimont3 votes

{quoted}

Dynamic Queue and the awful matchmaking that comes with it.

I think this should be a bigger concern

Raidarc18 votes

Yeah, definitely don't like the fact that no matter how much armor you have late game you get shredded like an ADC.

Dengeden3 votes

And you, right here, perfectly sum up the kind of people who agree with damage creep.

WoonStruck14 votes

The MMR gap being widened significantly after Dynamic Queue's release, due to extreme queue times, is another huge issue with the game.

You can even feel the difference in the consistency of matchmaking quality in normals, where it was often lopsided anyway.


League has always had balance issues. Despite this, the game was still a relatively consistent experience.

This season that is not true. Due to the increased MMR margin in matchmaking, games are much more lopsided, and the poor balance this season is exacerbated because of that.

Marshbouy7 votes

11/10 post

Fondling Gems7 votes

Just to add on to the first point about WHY the game shouldn't be played with people getting instantly destroyed.

League is a major combination of 3 important points.

  1. Skill. Being able to outplay opponents is an important component of any game.
  2. Game knowledge. An important element of League is being able to predict what is going on, knowing what fights you can take, and being able to exercise excellent decision making to build an advantage.
  3. Teamwork. Teamwork and communication is a very important element of any team game.

Now lets analyze why Instant damage is both good, and bad, for these points.


#Skill Pros:

  • Means that regardless of your health if you are capable of avoiding and dealing damage for a short amount of time you can take most fights.

  • Highlights reflexes.

Cons:

  • Means that a small mistake is the end of you, there is no room for error. It also heavily punishes people who are more focuses on the other areas and less skill based.

  • It means the meta is whomever is the best at dealing large amounts of damage in a short time while avoiding enemy damage.

Results: High amounts of damage in the game has roughly equal punishment and reward for high skill players, but harshly hurts people who play from say, a game knowledge standpoint. It also hurts the viability of other champions.


#Game Knowledge Pros:

  • High damage rewards players who are good at catching enemies out. It helps assassins do well in killing a target then escaping.

Cons:

  • When power creep reaches high enough levels it doesn't make much difference what role you are trying to fill. It becomes a game of either being the killer, or being able to lock down the killer so your killers can kill them.

  • It changes fights from being strategic fights into skill based ones. What does it matter if I could play Nautilus and know I can chain my cc long enough then Q to a wall to make you chase me into my team when it takes me 1/2 a second to decide on my course of action and I am dead in 3/4 of a second? The faster a fight is the less room there is for decision making. It becomes a kill or be killed game. The mindset is how best to abuse your kit to do damage and avoid damage instead of how best to utilize your kit to do what your kit is designed to do. For example J4's kit is built around tanking and disrupting. However due to damage creep his kit is played around gapclosing to one shot people. It stops using game knowledge on how to trick enemies and utilize different tricks and only focuses on how best to kill people, nothing else.

  • It pushes people out of using the tricks in their kits and into following the exact same kill pattern over and over. Example: During the tank meta I played a lot of Naut. Even when my goal was to keep fighting I would sometimes Q to a wall just to buy times for my cds. Now 90% of fights I just blindly use my abilities on my target whenever they are up because the name of the game is League of Legends killing. Why would I ever Q the Kha'zix jumping on my adc when my adc is going to be dead before my Q hits Kha? Better to Q the Syndra instead so it is a 1 for 1 trade.

Results (Slightly biased because I am a very game knowledge heavy player, not a skill based one): Speaking from my own perspective while there are still as many decision to make outside of combat, they aren't added to by damage creep. In combat however the options available to me are a fraction of what they used to be. I USED to be able to peel a Zed if I played well. Now? Zed can use his W as a gapcloser and still kill my adc before I can do shit. My best hope at that point is Qing his shadow in the hopes of catching him when he jumps back and cc killing him in return for my carry. Suddenly I no longer have the option of peeling for my backline as an engage tank. I am either our engage and that is it, or I am little more than a cc bot trying to stand next to both my carries at once. That is 50% of my combat decision making now.


#Teamwork Pros:

  • I am blanking on this. I tried man, I tried.

Cons:

  • How is my team supposed to react and help if I die in 2 seconds? Collapse and fight a 4v5? What is teamwork when the game is which team can sacrifice fewer damage dealers to kill more?

Results: More damage means less chance to help out allies. In fact trying to help them often means just taking a buttload of aoe damage and promptly dying a few seconds later.


Also I am pretty tired, done a lot of work today, so I am sure I missed plenty of points. Feel free to reply to this and I will update my comment. Think of it as a concise way of everyone putting their views in. I will put your point in even if I don't agree with it myself.

Keevalroy7 votes

Bring some water, salt truck pulling up.

Toxic kits could be added as a subsection of Counterplay matters, where some of us are sick of reading things like a single ability that does - this and this and this, is restricted by this, but does this instead, and does this if a certain situation happens. They're getting a little better at that, but the overloaded assholes are still in the game.

Then there's the ones who don't have a million things in their kit, but are just infuriating to see exist when no one in their right mind should have released them as is - such as Jhin, Kalista, reworked: Soraka, Morde, Fiora, and Vlad.

The problem with both of these issues is that Riot won't touch what makes them broken, or just unhealthy in general, because it's an iconic part of their design. Here's an obvious example: Kalista's iconic champion aspect is being a kangaroo for no reason. It has NOTHING AT ALL WHAT-SO-FUCKING-EVER to do with her theme as a malevolent spirit of vengeance, but since they allowed that ludicrous passive to live, it's become a core part to her - a part that makes tweaking her to be both healthy and balanced impossible. With their newer designs, they literally refuse to recognize that sometimes a defining gameplay element is actually the thing that needs changed, but are so proud that they pulled off the design that they'll touch everything except the main issue. Case and point: Kalista having 90% effectiveness on attacks...because the hop totally isn't what's wrong with her.

Anidan4 votes

Doesn't help, in my opinion, that they add % hp damage to people that don't need it in the first place, whether because it has nothing to do with their planned identity/role, or because it has nothing to do with their theme.

Champion whose %hp damage fits? Vayne. Say what you will about her design, but it's fairly cohesive, to the point and you know what she's going to be best at: Tracking you down to kill you, no matter who you are. However, she's also very single-target focused so if your team is going to force her to fight on your terms it can do a lot to significantly dampen her. To hammer that fact in, she has to attack the same target 3 times consecutively to get any of that %hp damage at all.

Champion whose %hp damage does not fit? Ekko. Nothing about his theme or his intended design says that %hp damage is necessary or even relevant to his kit design. Unlike Vayne, whose kit is designed with that %hp damage in mind, his seems tacked on, like a random bonus - not helping is the fact that it's a passive appended to his shield ability.

Keevalroy4 votes

Then there was that strange period where Riot felt they needed to add true damage to everything - and again, for no reason.

Anidan3 votes

Thus truly were the dark ages.

Riot likes giving damage where it isn't necessary for some reason.

Ravore1 votes

Fiora is a skill champ, Morde was good until he got killed, Vlad isn't broken people are stupid and don't buy morellos nor executioners calling and if you don't know what executioners calling is then you cant complain. Kalista is more balanced now because of the reduced damage and they're introducing more GROUNDED status effects. Soraka- See what i said about vlad. Jhin doesnt have an escape and he only has 4 shots and people use blocks aka pantheon, jax, teemo,shen etc so.. he isnt worth talking about either

MrWasjig3 votes

Yeah Kalista is so balanced. It's why she's been the lowest win rate ADC for _months _ now.

(Urgot don't count cuz, Urgot is Urgot and nobody knows what the hell Urgot is supposed to be :P )

HaloDragonX7 votes

God I wish I came here earlier. Because I really wanna show you guys some of the messed up balance things in the game. So, the story begins here.

Long ago, around patch 5.16, came the Juggernaut patch. The big 4 were OP as hell and permabans. Darius got hotfixed. Next patch, few big nerfs for all of them. This was a time when Riot actually tried to fix the game and balance it. When problems took a patch or two to be fixed. Then came preseason and League of Thunderlords. And TLD gets nerfed, as well as MF and Graves. Balance it actually done. Some times passes and the professional scene starts back up.

And here it began, when balance changes were ignored. Bruiser items are gutted because of ADCs. It took 3-4 patches to nerf Kindred (and even then they completely gutted her.) Lane swaps took 10+ patches to get rid off. Tank meta took 6+ patches to get rid off, meanwhile completely destroying Poppy from viability. Fiora still has insane percent HP true damage late game and a better early game. Ekko is still played as a tank. It's been over 7 patches and Fervor of Battle STILL hasn't been nerfed. Devourer is completely removed and none of the devourer using junglers are compensated. They're all left to die, left unplayable. Rageblade is gutted completely, forcefully pushing Kayle out of the meta (and thus my dream of seeing KFO play Kayle) and actually making Jax unplayable for an entire patch. You fix Trinity, but now Corki is dead (as if he wasn't already) and even then Jax isn't very playable. Mage Update comes around when we haven't even fixed the Marksmen Update's problems. And now it's been 10+ weeks since the Mage Update and we still haven't fixed the problems with that. Then we have ADCs abusing Cleaver (ADCs abusing Bruiser items in 2016, again..). Viktor's Q and E get higher AP ratios than Xerath's QWE, plus Viktor also gets more AP than any other mage, and he's easier to play. Oh and then we got mobility creep.

So to put it more readable and the few things not covered.

Top Lane Meta: Fiora has too safe of a laning phase and too good of an early game. What's the point of playing Jax when Fiora is better infinitely? True Damage changed to Magic Damage would solve a lot of problems. Gnar Lower his 3 hit passive percent damage, that is insanely too high for a ranged champion. item 3022 nerf the slow and nerf the ranged user slow. Stat shifting it only makes it better on Gnar. Ekko His cooldowns are so low, and he was played as a tank the patch THEY LOWERED HIS COOLDOWNS. Now that he's lost base damage, maybe we can raise his cooldowns and give back his damage, besides, he's an assassin he should have higher cooldowns. Yasuo Speaking of low cooldowns. Yeah, I don't know how to fix this mess. Poppy buffed.

Jungle Meta:Nidalee Elise RekSai Gragas Graves all nerfed while Fiddlesticks JarvanIV Kindred Rammus Sejuani Shyvana Vi Udyr Volibear Zac MasterYi are all buffed to become better junglers. Basically, adjust all of them to even them out. item 1416 jungler's buffed, not the item, the champions. All of them. You nerfed them because of devourer, now you remove devourer and leave them with nothing.

Mid Lane Meta: Viktor Why does his QE having higher AP ratios then Xerath's QWE and Viktor also gets more AP than Xerath, and Viktor's abilities are easier to land? How is this even remotely fair? Cassiopeia just lower the early game power a bit. Azir I mention him because I hate him yet he needs some buffs. Here's what I say, lower range or replace his ult. Lower range and maybe ult is fair. No ult and his high range is fair. You can't just have the best range in the game and the longest dash and the best peel ult. Brand small buffs to early game. Kayle Some MR per level. (People can complain Mao'kai doesn't have it and he gets it, comeon guys.) Orianna Not outclassed by Azir, so give her a bit more early game power. Ziggs not really sure, I guess slightly larger hitboxes? item 3116 less slows. item 3001 less MR.

AD Carry Meta: Ashe volley range down by 25, damage down by 10 at all ranks. Jhin Less passive AD (Is 40% @lv18), more scaling on AS to AD. Sivir nerf ult MS a little bit. Vayne Small buffs to base stats. (I tried playing her once, laning felt just so unbearable.) Draven smol buffs. MissFortune up Make it Rains slow a bit, up base damage a bit. item 3071 melee only, buff Varus if he suffers.

Support Meta: Actually, it's fine.

Other Champions: Jax late game is outclassed and early game is garbage. What does he need? Clean up his animations, grant CC immunity or tenacity during Counter Strike. I'll talk about his ultimate later. Vladimir less healing. What if Executioner's makes him useless? Then remove Executioners. Kled Buff courage on minion kill, that's it. Might be missing a few. Khazix he's banned in high elo for a reason. 3 second cooldown Q that deals about half someone's health.

Items? item 3046. Lower MS, lower damage reduction. 12% damage reduction is a lot. I'll put it into easy terms to understand. A kayle at level 18 with Rylai's get's an effective 700 health while 1v1ing with PD. There's a reason Mallet PD is built on Jax and Yasuo. item 3036 This item has so many problems. Deals so much damage. Raise the HP difference requirement. item 3033 one of the worst, most poorly designed items. Just remove it and actually balance healing. Doesn't need to be an excuse for not nerfing vlad, doesn't make Darius and Olaf's healing useless. item 3147 can this be "an assassins answer to tanks" like Riot said it should be? Jax Shyvana Garen and anyone else with a resistance buff in their kit: That resistance buff is counted as base armor and MR, not penetrated by Last Whisper. You know what's stupid? LDR negating half Jax's ultimate.

TLDR: Riot doesn't give a shit about balance because we've had problems for months that go unsolved. PD is insanely effective, LDR deals way to much to non-full-tanks. Mobility creep by PD, Rylai's Mallet. Ekko is a tank by low cooldowns, which assassins shouldn't have.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo6 votes

i think the biggest issue is the mastery system. they reworked it to provide "more options' but really out side of 3 keystones no one picks anything else.

and the damage creep you speak of has a lot to do with masteries.

and adcs should always have highest damage out put cuz they are meant to be late game hyper carries.

WolfChases5 votes

Jinx ZAP - hits you even when it clearly doesn't.

Subject 54 votes

Bump this thread

ZT Xperimentor4 votes

Matchmaking is stilted at best, and painfully stacked at worse; boring whoever's ahead & frustrating to whoever's behind. A combination of inept que functionality & snowbally game designs (minions, epic monsters, & towers).

Detherial4 votes

Kled should be removed .

CoffeeDave4 votes

I got one that should be up in the OP: Making Support Fun/Rewarding. It's no secret that support is the least popular role, but lately the system has been putting myself and I'm sure a bunch of other supports in any ranked game just to fill slots. There's so few supports in ranked nowadays that as a Silver 2 player (Yeah, I'm bad I know), I get placed in games with upper Bronze to players even as high as Plat 4. This is more then a DynamicQ/Ranked problem but a problem with the player base enjoying support and it's no secret why: It's the most team dependent role in the game, the vision changes this season, lack of item variety, and in ranked unless you're Janna Sona Soraka you're not gonna win games....and even with those three they have to rely on there team.

I love to play supports in any game, but dang, in other games support characters can still defend themselves if they're caught out. For the most part if in a 1v1 situation they can either 1) Die, 2) Run away or 3) walk away because you're dueling another support and neither of you have the damage to kill each other. You can land all of the 5 man Leo ults you want but if your team doesn't follow up, you've wasted an ult.

No one wants to go back to the days of the ward bitch. That being said, the nerf to item 2049 and the removal of Green Wards nerfed me as a PLAYER. I know Riot intended to get the rest of the players involved in warding but that job is still on the support for the most part and 3 Sightstone charges and a pink isn't enough, not in this post cloud drake/mobility creep world.

Supports have it tough with items, even with the gold items you're still working on a budget so your items have to be cheap, effective, and offer utility. if it's too good then expect someone else to take it, like with item 3800 and item 3092 . Both items were so good for there cost they got nerfed. I can't remember the last time I've seen a Righteous Glory. On top of this, on caster supports, even some of the utility scales off of AP, which you don't want because the damage-scaling from AP is often bad (Unless you're playing a mage like Annie, Morg, or Brand). Further still, you won't even get a full build unless neither team can end the game...and it doesn't matter who you play, most supports are going to build the same thing. Almost every game. Gold item, item 2049 , item 3105 and boots. These four items. With very few expectations.

Boots is something everyone builds, no question. Gold item because you're not allowed to CS....because you're support, that CS is for the ADC. Sightstone because you're still in charge to grant vision for your team...on three charges mind you, and Aegis because it's a fantastic defensive item for it's cost.... that is 800 for Sightstone, 1500 for Aegis, 300 for normal boots, 900 for Mobi, CDR or Swfities (the cheapest T2 boots too), and 350 for T1 gold item, 850 for T2. That is 2950 gold dedicated to these four items if you don't upgrade. 2200 For an Eye upgrade regaurdless of gold item start, 2500 for Locket or 3000 for Banner, that is still 4700-5200 gold before we're counting boots. On Every support. Regaurdless if you're playing Bard or Nami or Taric or Leona . Every support has to build these items. You have it worse as a tanky support because you have to shell out 1100 for item 3047 item 3111 so you can be tanky...on an item that requires your to CS minions... that your teammates will take in the late game because they need items too.

TL:DR: Supports aren't fun, because of this, less people are queuing up for support that throws off matchmaking even more so then normal.

Poske4 votes

Damage creep - Sorry but this is completely not true. I already explained to you people on boards milion times by now why not

Riot has been consistently nerfing champions since FKING Beta In an everage Patch note you ll find 75% Nerfs and 25% buffs (And I am being generous with that 25% I doubt its even that much) there are also neutral changes but we wont count them. Champion Power budget Is significantly lower then it used to be

Source: Just Do some digging on patch notes. I Read every single one of them Since I started playing which was in season1

But what about keystones? Do they add More power to league then it used to have. There were always masteries I do believe current masteries are 5-10% stronger then the old masteries. But honestly who cares?

Now There Might be a reason why tanks arent as good at tanking. And I dont think that the reason Is tankiness nerfing since I am 90% sure that Riot has been nerfing Damage more. I would say that the main reason why tanks are less tanky is the fact that %pen is calculated before flat pen and they didnt compensate it. This seemed to create the biggest swing

I would like to adress a Power creep. Power creep is taboo subject which boards and companies is afraid of like its end of the world. I dont know why I guess it ruined some random game. But trust me Power creep would be an issue only if Riot were buffing Champions straight for 20 years. Yes 20 that much. We are way to far of power creep. Any champion at season1 state would have 60% + winrate nowdays in League except maybe old karma...(She was weak at a time even)

As For Ranged vs melee. I simply agree. Playing melee champions can be painful. They can atleast tune down the minion block.

Now as for specific champions you mentioned Renekton is viable just requires mechanics and Sub diamond player dont know the core combos

Trynda is also viable I do agree that teamfights can be painful with him. But there are High Elo OTP trynda players which I see from time to time and they terrorize everything. Just dont teamfight with him.. there are other strategis

Garen is a noob friendly champion. Riot had a chance to make him viable in plat+ with his rework. But players wanted him to stay A Noob friendly champion so he stayed that way. Dont expect him to be viable until his next rework in 2045. He is viable for majority of community though

Udyr just randomly becomes viable from Patch to patch. Follow trick2g if you want to see when he reaches spikes in viability. Most people dont understand how to play this champion. You are not supposed to go Attackspeed AD and try to on hit people.. There are better champions who can do that more effectivly Shyv xin yi.. What you want to do is control a game and be a wall of zoning

If you ask me I would rather have 130 champions with high skillcap then 130 garens. Sorry But I am against Any change which makes League easier .. unless it makes controls easier like pinging how much exp you got left to a certain level. Definetly dont want it to be like dota2 where the controls are fked up and harder then the game seems

Champion Skin3 votes

Ehh I am pretty sure that masteries are more then 5-10% stronger simply because of how ridiculously powerful some of the keystone masteries are One of the most extreme ones are Fervor of battle which adds up to 112 damage per auto attack which is just way more powerful compared with Havoc (3% increased damage) For 3% damage increase to be as strong as 112 bonus damage you would need to deal 3733 damage per auto attack (well less then that since Havoc also increase ability damage... but still)

Poske1 votes

3% damage is universal and to do 112 bonust damage on AA you have to stack it

I do agree that fervor is stronger But not by a such big margin

Keep in mind we went from 30 masteries to 15. New masteries do have to be 2x times more relevant

Sozan52 votes

I like the irony of noob friendly champs:

They are the easiest to learn, yet they require immense skill to perform at higher skill levels, precisely because they are so simple.

Poske2 votes

true but they just end up not being played sadly

Skias1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hNtEAq0H,comment-id=0027,timestamp=2016-09-05T11:19:37.208+0000)

Damage creep - Sorry but this is completely not true. I already explained to you people on boards milion times by now why not

Riot has been consistently nerfing champions since FKING Beta In an everage Patch note you ll find 75% Nerfs and 25% buffs (And I am being generous with that 25% I doubt its even that much) there are also neutral changes but we wont count them. Champion Power budget Is significantly lower then it used to be

Source: Just Do some digging on patch notes. I Read every single one of them Since I started playing which was in season1

But what about keystones? Do they add More power to league then it used to have. There were always masteries I do believe current masteries are 5-10% stronger then the old masteries. But honestly who cares?

Now There Might be a reason why tanks arent as good at tanking. And I dont think that the reason Is tankiness nerfing since I am 90% sure that Riot has been nerfing Damage more. I would say that the main reason why tanks are less tanky is the fact that %pen is calculated before flat pen and they didnt compensate it. This seemed to create the biggest swing

I would like to adress a Power creep. Power creep is taboo subject which boards and companies is afraid of like its end of the world. I dont know why I guess it ruined some random game. But trust me Power creep would be an issue only if Riot were buffing Champions straight for 20 years. Yes 20 that much. We are way to far of power creep. Any champion at season1 state would have 60% + winrate nowdays in League except maybe old karma...(She was weak at a time even)

As For Ranged vs melee. I simply agree. Playing melee champions can be painful. They can atleast tune down the minion block.

Now as for specific champions you mentioned Renekton is viable just requires mechanics and Sub diamond player dont know the core combos

Trynda is also viable I do agree that teamfights can be painful with him. But there are High Elo OTP trynda players which I see from time to time and they terrorize everything. Just dont teamfight with him.. there are other strategis

Garen is a noob friendly champion. Riot had a chance to make him viable in plat+ with his rework. But players wanted him to stay A Noob friendly champion so he stayed that way. Dont expect him to be viable until his next rework in 2045. He is viable for majority of community though

Udyr just randomly becomes viable from Patch to patch. Follow trick2g if you want to see when he reaches spikes in viability. Most people dont understand how to play this champion. You are not supposed to go Attackspeed AD and try to on hit people.. There are better champions who can do that more effectivly Shyv xin yi.. What you want to do is control a game and be a wall of zoning

If you ask me I would rather have 130 champions with high skillcap then 130 garens. Sorry But I am against Any change which makes League easier .. unless it makes controls easier like pinging how much exp you got left to a certain level. Definetly dont want it to be like dota2 where the controls are fked up and harder then the game seems

You're completely wrong. Mastery and champion updates have made nearly every champion they affect much much stronger. Mage update dumped power into mages. Marksman update, buff all the ADCs and broke their items with utility and defense. Juggernaut update, buffed the crap out of Darius and once again, broke their items so assassins take them because they are so good.

Poske2 votes

Sorry but mage Update Nerfed AP itemization overall. Heck even if you just look at rabadon which is the most important part of mage items it literaly got GUTTED

majulito2 votes

Totally agree. They put cdr on everything but took out a lot of ap. Theres a reason ryliahs is being built more. Its now one of the highest ap items.

TyroneWatermelon3 votes

why the fuck thunderlord and keystones exist

I is Illiterate3 votes

I mean, the kiting you mentioned doesn't matter below Diamond, maybe Plat. You cited Renekton as being super weak and kitable right now, but he's my favorite top laner to carry with and I can do pretty darn well (though he largely is a snowballing champion rather than a champ who waits to shine in team fights).

On a related topic, I get that yas is really strong right now, but I LOVE playing against him as Nasus and Renekton and trying to outplay him (since most yasuos below diamond are decent at best). You just gotta play better than him. Who cares about the meta below diamond?

Xela Syab3 votes

Am I the only one who thinks minion power creep is what's really breaking the game? It may not seem that way but riot has pigeonholed all strategy and objective control around waves of minions. Sure complain about mobility, damage, and tank stats but when the turrets need almost 3 shots to kill normal creeps there's a huge problem.

PokladnicaZla3 votes

I may get downvoted for this,but on the range vs melee points,it depends on the lane. On top,if you're playing a ranged champ vs a melee one,you're at a bigger advantage than,let's say a rangedvs melee on midlane,where most melee assassins wreck mages.

Blåbæret3 votes

Damage needs lowered ACROSS THE BOARD

I disagree. I enjoy the fast paced playstyle. What needs to be fixed is tanks getting one offensive item and oneshotting everything as well as assassins (but they are getting reworked).

zlumpy2 votes

Just wanna add with a roster of 130+ a lot of old champs are really showing their age design wise and it shows in their play rates. Maybe some more love to the old gaurd would be nice. I see a lot of threads with people upset about Garen for starters, and Pantheons ult could use some work.

cornpirde2 votes

You're doing gods work #makeleaguegreatagain. People complained about tank meta, when the tanks weren't actual tanks to begin with.

Rozair2 votes

shitty adcs keep ending up on my team?

It Hertz When IP2 votes

LCS balancing.

Specifically, the shift in focus that I observed when LCS went big from slower, methodical games where strategy was everything to faster-paced matches. Specifically, I hate what it did to sustain supports. Healers have been consistently shit on lately for being too "boring and uninteractive", so Riot attempted to turn them into fast-pace healers which ultimately created the unbalanced kits they have today.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

Garen Tryndamere Udyr Renekton

Wait, what? You're using these 4 as an example of being bad because of mobility creep? All 4 of these have ways of easily getting up to people, with the only real exception being Garen.

Trynd has a dash and a strong slow, Udyr has tons and tons of movement speed along with a short cooldown stun, and Renekton has two dashes and a stun.

morris12 votes

That doesn't make them unkiteable. How often have you seen a Tryndamere or Udyr in a teamfight? And Garen or Renekton only show up if their team has a lot of lockdown and engage for them.

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