If riot wants to stop allegations of game states they need to start providing actual info.

Hibeki··246 votes·23,895 views

League of Legends is one of the only games I can think of (especially a moba) where official data isn't available.

In games like Dota, Hots, etc I can readily view my MMR, champion statistics, statistics of other players and basically anything you can think of. Hell games like overwatch you can readily see how many bullets youve fired this season

League of Legends your best information is literally a website that just gives a guess. And that guess is never really accurate (op.gg)

They complain about people saying things that aren't true, or using anecdotes, or saying they have no base, except they never provide any real information or source to something we can actually get credible assumptions or bases off of. This is just about as sus as you can get.

When someone says "That's not true", you need to provide data to say otherwise. And when you don't, and continue to say that, it's very clear you are hiding something.

This isn't about matchmaking, or balance, or ELO brackets, but it concerns everything. Everyone is consistently getting denied on the basis that they are 'wrong' then fail to provide literally any information stating otherwise (when usually the best guess information we have available supports them anyway)

There needs to be TRANSPARANCY.

You track all your own data for your own reasons, you have no reason not to share these types of statistics with your players unless you are very clearly hiding something.

All the sites showing builpaths, % rates, etc. all wildly vary but Riot insists that when something is brought to light, their 'data' suggests otherwise despite not sharing it.

Show it.

EDIT: Just to point out, I made this exact same thread on reddit word for word and it got shut down with negative upvotes and a deletion. Propaganda machine ahoy!

UPDATE: Reddit thread! https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/8czkqe/to_prevent_allegations_of_game_states_the/

120 Comments

Hibeki78 votes

Also im going to squash this point before its even brought up, if its too much trouble to release or make your own website about data you should be transparent about anyway, youre hiding something.

This is the most successful moba out there, and to say 'its too much effort' or 'they shouldn't have to' to make their own way of accessing that data publically is fucking ridiculous.

Bob the Toastr21 votes

Comments are great and all but you could've just edited your original post. That being said I totally agree with you.

Hibeki4 votes

well the point was entirely different than the original post, so I thought it required its own line rather than just including it with everything else

notice me Sin pi4 votes

it's a great way to farm upvotes twice instead of once

Malicious Metal7 votes

I never understood this sentiment. Do people actually think upvotes are worth a damn?

notice me Sin pi2 votes

i agree with u. But we live in a world where people will risk their lives and occasionally actually die and make it to news for "like"s on Facebook. I don't think it would be too different for boards as well.

Häxel1 votes

how are they hiding something if they allow websites liek op.gg to use riots api for data? yea it is not the most accurate but i would not say "hiding". Just not giving everything to the palyers on a present plate. I would compare it how also players can't see the rankedborders of the opposing team: ofcourse you can look up on third party programms but not everyone wants to do that and also not everyone can use this information good: Tilt for "unfair matchmaking" or either fear of high elo enmies or not taking serious low elo enemies could decide far, faaaar more games.

And if riot would share their data like on the client pick/banrates would totaly change and ingamechat also like "why you pick this 40% winrate champ" or "you 55% winrate abuser".

Ofcourse just my little opionion how i felt especialy this second comment of yours is not that accurate. I resepct anyones own opinion but i don't see why riot has to do that just cause "others do it also".

Ps: Also things similar to "how many bullets you have fired" you can see in your years recap which riot provides for every player at the seasonstart ;)

Hibeki2 votes

They dont? Op.gg is a total estimated guess.

None of the websites are concrete, they all wildly differ in the information they provide you because they aren't official. They have their own methods of gathering data but because none of it is official and its completely unreliable.

This includes champion.gg, lolanalytics, etc.

Go look yourself. The % of certain things can differ by as much as 10% which is a lot.

Also year recap that could totally just be fake anyway =/= on demand information.

FrostQueensPlane41 votes

small indie company bro

Count Gotchula3 votes

{quoted}

small indie company bro

10 years ago they were. That is BS now. Riot has plenty of personnel and money to burn

Sõna5 votes

Nice meme

DBS Ronovon32 votes

I agree, thank you for this post.

GripaAviara32 votes

Yes. They def need to do this. But they won't and people for some reason will defend them

Disembark7 votes

Didn't they have a post with like a bunch of statistics when people were talking about how "top is a useless role" and they went and showed a bunch of statistics how until very high elo, top's influence on the game was usually more than jungle/support? (also the claim that mid has low influence on the game is ridiculous, damage is not the only way you influence a game).

They also addressed looking into how to make top more influential in high elo.

Also... they made a whole post addressing the "matchmaking claims" too.

I feel like people on boards QQ and don't even read the devblog posts Riot makes that specifically address their issues.

Śhunpo12 votes

{quoted}

Didn't they have a post with like a bunch of statistics when people were talking about how "top is a useless role" and they went and showed a bunch of statistics how until very high elo, top's influence on the game was usually more than jungle/support? (also the claim that mid has low influence on the game is ridiculous, damage is not the only way you influence a game).

They also addressed looking into how to make top more influential in high elo.

Also... they made a whole post addressing the "matchmaking claims" too.

I feel like people on boards QQ and don't even read the devblog posts Riot makes that specifically address their issues.

Those top lane stats. were taken from Vietnam's server btw xD

MuffledGarbage1 votes

you KNOW Riot was clearly stretching to find a country with actual top-laners still playing top

weasley0091 votes

Because Vietnam isn't a real country that plays League of Legends. They've never had a team that's made it to world's, right? They're just lesser league players, beneath everyone else who plays the game. Nice.

MuffledGarbage1 votes

ok, name a Vietnam Esports team that previously won any worlds which is still around today

Also I never said Vietnam isn't a real country + all the other sh^t you said. Should I even mention how Vietnam is only ONE country that Riot used to say that "top laners are fine" when in reality non-tank toplaners are being Fked by everything and tank toplaners are hating their CC-bot jobs for the most part

weasley0091 votes

In that regard, we should only uses stats from Europe, Taiwan, and South Korea, right? Oh wait, you only want NA (cause other regions can't possibly have good data, right?) , but when's the last time they won a World Championship or even got to Semi-Finals?

MuffledGarbage1 votes

M8 the Europe, Taiwan, and South Korea data(THAT RIOT POSTED) all supported that Fighter toplaners aren't being played much(or doing well) while Tank toplaners aren't even being played much(but still succeeding)

Why are you also trying to put words in my mouth that I "only want NA cause other regions can't possibly have good data"

The fact that you have to resort to slander in order to make an argument shows that you are in the wrong and I am in the right

weasley0091 votes

Sorry, haven't logged into boards in a while, so I know this reply is super late. Anyway, sorry. I personally didn't look at the data and I thought you were making fun of the fact that riot used data from another region, not about what the data actually said.

nelogis18 votes

ah you mean this? https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/nfTpwemT-what-do-we-mean-when-we-say-the-boardsreddit-are-a-minority

bunch of statistics how until very high elo, top's influence on the game was usually more than jungle/support?

If by "bunch of statistics" you mean.... one... then yeah they showed a bunch of statistics I guess.

They didn't show the INFLUENCE, they showed the popularity and I'm sorry but plat 5 isn't high MMR. These graphs would look even worse if they actually went ahead and took the data from actual high MMR (I would say D3+)

Also keep in mind this post wasn't even here to discuss top lane, it was here so people understood what they meant with "you are a minority".

They also addressed looking into how to make top more influential in high elo.

By adding a keystone that should have been in the game since the rune rework. And top sill isn't fixed by the way.

So they haven't addressed it, they just have done the bare minimum so top doesn't become an actual shithole (good job on that one I guess).

Also... they made a whole post addressing the "matchmaking claims" too.

I haven't seen this one, can you link it for me please?

I feel like people on boards QQ and don't even read the devblog posts Riot makes that specifically address their issues.

"Yeah top is a problem we are working on it" There I addressed the top issue, did it satisfy you?

No? Well guess why! Because we already know that top is an issue and that comment did nothing to fix it.

These "devblog posts" are 70% stuff we already know and they are just repeating it. The good part of these blogs are the following questions in the comment section that get answered by rioters (good job on that). But as soon as a hard question pops up, riot is either not responding or just saying "yeah we know we are looking into it" (not so good job on that)

Ultimate Deadpoo3 votes

{quoted}

I haven't seen this one, can you link it for me please?

The TLDR version is your games are made to have a 49%-51% win chance based on your mmr, but because of factors such as players going on hot and cold streaks, playing while already tilted, ect, the actual odds of winning the game are more up in the air because of these outside factors.

nelogis14 votes

But that is again something we already know?

Of course the matchmaker is going to search for opponents of your strength (thats why it is aimed towards that 49-51% WR).

And we already know that outside factors like those you mentioned are something Riot has little control over and that these factors influence the 49-51% WR.

Did they mention more in depth things?

MMR change per win/loss, what factors influence the MMR change? Promo MMR same as a normal ranked game MMR? How are smurfs handled? Influence of win/loss streaks to the matchmaker (regarding opponent and team MMR)

That would be data that would be useful to explain certain stuff like the "why is there a Plat in my Silver game" posts.

TheLegendaddy21 votes

Plenty of games make their ranked transparent, but not RITO, they lazy as hell. I wanna hear the "it gives players a reason to be toxic" excuse. LULZ this game couldn't possibly be more toxic. Hey Riot while you preach about toxicity how about you add more emote spams and mastery spams? mmmmhmmmmm

GayFluffyUnicorn9 votes

Yeah i don't get it. Overwatch shows everyones MMR and the teams average MMR atleast i can understand how the teams come together. And i really don't see or hear anyone flaming about it. I play rarely and sit between gold and silver and you often have gold and silver players mixed nd i never heard a word. Ye league is bigger and such but people are already flaming literally at the LP you have. Masters 100LP player will flame the master 20 LP. On my smurf i always read "are u silver? good stay there trash" from the gold 5 0LP (not aimed towards me tho i'm already gold there hehe). IN diamond everyone flames D5s, d3 0 LP flames the d4 in his promos as "hardstuck low dia". MMR could also just be shown client wise so only yourself sees it. For champ statistics i'd say riot is obligated to do that, everyone should be able to see what is happening in game.

ZJD12314 votes

I wouldnt say its far fetched to claim they have a hidden agenda. This is the company that brought you ardent censor for 6 months straight. Consistently allows certain champions in certain roles to overperform for months before finally nerfing them with a minor tap on the wrist while immediately addressing other champions. Even the ardent censor "nerfs" were just some points of attack speed off, and even today you see heal/shield supports rushing ardent first item. I dont see why the ardent censor "meta" is over judging from the definition of meta.

Hibeki9 votes

Lets try to stay away from the balance discussion and keep it more transparency and data focused

Teridax6811 votes

I agree completely with this. I find it absolutely mind-boggling that one of the most popular multiplayer games in the world is still making no real effort to supply data in a manner that is clear to all, and that still relies primarily on third-party sites to supply vital information. As an editor on the LoL wiki, I've seen typos shape the entire perception of a great deal many players, including pros, which to me shows that that site, rather than any official Riot resource, is where people get information from the game, and any discussion on statistics here refers to sites like op.gg, again a third-party site. Riot's practice of denying player claims without actually substantiating their own rebuttals with data, data they readily have at their disposal, comes off as super shady to me, and on the few occasions where Riot has indeed produced that data, the logic and conclusions behind those posts were... questionable. I'd like to pin this on Riot still growing and learning through trial and error how to process and display data, but that's not really possible when Riot is as big as it is, or has grown for as long as it has. As such, it does feel like we the players are being deceived, or otherwise manipulated through very selective usage of data, itself pre-packaged and dressed up to suit a very specific PR goal, rather than to genuinely inform the playerbase. There is no transparency to League's data, and it feels like this issue is deliberate.

Additionally, what irritates me with Riot's recent communications strategy is that, for the most part, it's not really communicating at all. We've thankfully seen a few exceptions like Jinxylord, who takes in and directly implements player feedback, but most communication between Riot and the players is only one-way, with Riot talking at us, rather than with us. Back when Riot was a smaller company with a smaller playerbase, they had this phenomenal communication with their fans: while it's understandable that this communication is more difficult at a time when there are literally thousands of times more players, the problems with Riot's communication go further than that, and I think their communication has degraded overall. Besides developers who spend much less time with us players, we've gotten replies that frequently don't say anything at all. Riot themselves have repeatedly said that they don't want to announce their plans for fear that a change might disappoint us, and what few indications they give are frequently non-committal. There's no real indication of how Riot incorporates feedback or listens to players, despite their claims, and it feels more like Riot is resting on their laurels from their early days to keep telling us they have the best player communication around, even when that is clearly no longer the case. There's also been this disturbing recent trend of Rioters talking down to players, and arguing in toxic threads without contributing anything at all, while much more constructive threads remain completely unanswered. It doesn't feel like the relationship between Rioters and players really has the respect and mutual goodwill that it once had, and I don't think the critics are the only ones to blame here.

Altonius Amakiir4 votes

This is really well said. It's rather frustrating this entire situation. I first started using the boards because their communication with players was so good. There used to be a reason to read through the red posts because they would hint at stuff coming up or common concerns with the game. That just doesn't seem to happen anymore. The last time I remember being able to do that was leading up to Warwick's reveal. I was able to piece together most of his kit based off of red posts. After he came it started to become harder and harder to find out Riot's future plans, then Ghostcrawler's monthly Q&A disappeared, and I just stopped being able to find much of anything by the time Xayah and Rakan came out. I still have several things listed out that were supposedly planned for this year (some should have happened already), but I can't get a comment on what happened to those plans. The only solid things I know for things coming up is marksmen/bot lane work for mid-season, which is really vague and that Nunu might be getting a rework. In the past we were told exactly what preseason (think jungle rework) would be months in advanced, or that midseason would be the tank update and who those would be months in advanced with talks starting a half season prior. We have about a month now before mid-season and we don't even know really what it will be. I like something to look forward to, it helps to get me excited to continue playing.

As an analogy for how it feels now, with everything seemingly in the dark: It feels like someone is sneaking onto my computer and adding a bunch of mods to my favorite game. I may end up liking the mods down the road, but it feels like some bit of trust has been broken between me and the mod installer. As the owner of the game in this analogy I should have a say in what I do or don't want installed. It could be that the guy installing the mods is following me around and listening to me talk about the game to friends, but if they never talk to me about it or make me a integrated part of the process, it will always feel like a parent laying down the law.

I want the surrender@20 red posts articles to be full of rioters answering questions again instead of context quotes, I want it to take more than a few minutes to read again. Just needed to rant a bit about this. I have felt this shift in policy so much trying to get simple questions answered that it actually was causing me a great deal of stress in my life. It took something like 8 months just to get a response, not even an answer to a simple question. I honestly hate this shift in communication so much that it has made me seriously consider not playing anymore. It used to be if the game was in a state that made me adverse to playing it as much I would still have the feel-good that Riot cared and would fix it. That goodwill-type feeling is all but gone now.

Teridax683 votes

[{quoted}](name=Altonius Amakiir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ljZuQ9bX,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2018-04-16T20:09:19.979+0000)

This is really well said. It's rather frustrating this entire situation. I first started using the boards because their communication with players was so good. There used to be a reason to read through the red posts because they would hint at stuff coming up or common concerns with the game. That just doesn't seem to happen anymore. The last time I remember being able to do that was leading up to Warwick's reveal. I was able to piece together most of his kit based off of red posts. After he came it started to become harder and harder to find out Riot's future plans, then Ghostcrawler's monthly Q&A disappeared, and I just stopped being able to find much of anything by the time Xayah and Rakan came out.

I forgot Ghostcrawler's monthly Q&As were even a thing. I did a quick search to jog my memory, and I only see two different links. Did GC's monthly Q&A really just end up amounting to two Twitch recordings?

[{quoted}](name=Altonius Amakiir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ljZuQ9bX,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2018-04-16T20:09:19.979+0000)

As an analogy for how it feels now, with everything seemingly in the dark: It feels like someone is sneaking onto my computer and adding a bunch of mods to my favorite game. I may end up liking the mods down the road, but it feels like some bit of trust has been broken between me and the mod installer. As the owner of the game in this analogy I should have a say in what I do or don't want installed. It could be that the guy installing the mods is following me around and listening to me talk about the game to friends, but if they never talk to me about it or make me a integrated part of the process, it will always feel like a parent laying down the law.

I agree with this 100%. I understand Riot may want to keep totally new content somewhat of a secret, since it makes sense to build hype to an entirely new addition, but I think it is the absolute worst strategy to apply the same thing to changes to existing content. Even when a champion gets relaunched, that champion is a piece of content many players have become attached to and want to follow through development, to make sure that they turn out right. Similarly, while it's understandable that the devs may not have all the details on upcoming gameplay updates, or may change direction farther down the line, I don't think it's been healthy of Riot to keep us all in the dark when making sweeping changes to the game itself, e.g. the map, itemization, and so on. Fixing broken content is not the same as releasing new content, and Riot trying to apply the same secrecy + hype formula to both I think has had majorly negative consequences on both the game and player trust.

[{quoted}](name=Altonius Amakiir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ljZuQ9bX,comment-id=00170000,timestamp=2018-04-16T20:09:19.979+0000)

I want the surrender@20 red posts articles to be full of rioters answering questions again instead of context quotes, I want it to take more than a few minutes to read again. Just needed to rant a bit about this. I have felt this shift in policy so much trying to get simple questions answered that it actually was causing me a great deal of stress in my life. It took something like 8 months just to get a response, not even an answer to a simple question. I honestly hate this shift in communication so much that it has made me seriously consider not playing anymore. It used to be if the game was in a state that made me adverse to playing it as much I would still have the feel-good that Riot cared and would fix it. That goodwill-type feeling is all but gone now.

I feel you on this. I joined the Boards specifically so that I could give constructive feedback and engage in dialogue with the devs, and even joined the Warden team (now the mod team) to make that dream happen. In practice, though, getting a Riot response is a crapshoot, no matter how well-written the post, and when a red post does happen, it's still a gamble on whether or not the Rioter in question will say anything of substance. I find it tremendously disappointing to hear from Riot that their devs don't have the time to answer players (and that is indeed often an actual problem), and then see a fistbump icon on a popular thread, only for the red response in question to be some one-word response to a pun, or alternatively some pages-long rant about how the OP was being hyperbolic and how the Boards are just a minority echo chamber of baseless negativity. I've been here since before the Boards even launched, and to this day I still don't know how exactly Riot incorporates feedback most of the time, if they even do so at all anymore. Most threads on Reddit comment on e-sports, and the only surveys I received from League asked me whether I wanted to buy a particular skin. The Boards were meant to offer clear feedback channels between the playerbase and Riot, but due to the complete lack of resources and effort put into the site, no such thing has happened.

Superspick9 votes

They'll also choose stats from other servers to argue/explain the state of things on a separate server.

I think one of those posts took data form like the OCE or some other smaller server on the eastern hemisphere to answer a post regarding the NA server.

Here's the thing - we don't have insight into their internal systems and processes. Because of that, we always are at a disadvantage in these conversations, because we are forever susceptible to "well, you just don't have the data we have and that's why you're wrong" stance.

But i dunno bout you...for me, if you're addressing, say, your EU players and explain your stance by citing numbers from the Korean server, i think two things about you:

  • You're depressingly incompetent by lacking the capacity to identify where i'm from OR just not doing your due diligence by being prepared with relevant info.
  • You're hiding things.

Either way, not a good look.

Once again peepies, the game is not catering to you all anymore. Skin sales are not the income they are after, those will not be sustainable the way a presence in entertainment (e-sports) will bring. Understand that, and if you're cool with it, it won't bother you as much.

For as long as you all think that Riot is/will cater to the lowest denominator, the game will be especially unappealing.

AMYS GRAVE7 votes

This is a big part of the problems of these boards. With little rioter interaction and nothing to base arguments off of we are left to speculate, and as such no one can make an argument on game states with any kind of credible foundation.

saltran4 votes

Strongly agree.

Mojihito6664 votes

Well obviously they hide it for a reason.

xelaker4 votes

as long as riot is making that sweet billion dollars a year our chinese overlord tencent gives 0 fucks

Wolfeur3 votes

The reason they don't share a lot of data is that data is useful only if you know how to use it.

The best argument for that is when you see how people just look at win rates to justify balance. Data is to be carefully looked at, and one needs deep understanding in game design and/or statistics to be able to correctly make sense of it.

So no, they don't hide data because they're lying to us or afraid to show "bad stats", they just want to avoid having people incorrectly use or cherry-pick the data to push their agenda and further the dislike for the company.

Karunamon8 votes

I mean this with no snark or hint of malice in my heart, but I don't think Riot (nee Tencent) gives a tenth of a crap how well players like them as long as they're buying skins.

Wolfeur2 votes

Pretty sure Tencent doesn't care, but I truly believe Riot does care how they're perceived.

GayFluffyUnicorn8 votes

No you are completely wrong. Riot ONLY cares how they are viewed publicly by the community. This might sound tinfoil hatty but afaik asian or chinese culture values it a LOT how you are viewed publicly and even in defeat they try to look as the winner. Ask yourself why reddit is such a huge propaganda machine. Why does riot always make kneejerk reactions once reddit complains? To not look like idiots and be loved. They know how small boards is that's why their very own PR agent shits on the boards for giggles and upvotes on reddit. That's why basically no criticism is allowed on reddit and if there is it vanishes after one post, see that russian RIOT thingy incident, reroll scam, riot tampering with LP gains in korea and potentially other regions as well.

GayFluffyUnicorn7 votes

I mean it can't get worse. What we have now is people using 6 different sites showing 20 different statistics depending on elo, region etc. We don't know for sure which sites are actually accurate and we are all just making educated guesses. Atleast there is then ONE source and officially and we can rightfully shittalk people who spew nonsense. I think the reality is just worse if we looked at actual true data and riot wants to avoid that.

Tomoe Gozen3 votes

You know what's funnier? When people complained about BE rate being worse then IP rate, Riot posted the data (math behind the system + graphs) and people still refused to believe it, like Riot intentionally wanted to mislead everyone by posting bogus evidence. That comment was, as far as i remember, downvoted to hell for doing nothing else but providing evidence to debunk the false accusation by a certain player and many sheep in the same thread.

The thing is, when a witch hunt is being prepared for someone, people usually already decide where they stand and won't back down even if proven wrong. Because then they'll make up any excuse to still retain the belief that they're right so that they don't have to apologize. But Riot sure as fuck always needs to apologize about something to someone who was "personally" offended by a specific change.

What i absolutely hate about the boards is that instead of asking for an explanation or more information, they intentionally want to make a wrong point in order to force Riot's hand into having to defend themselves. Which is absolutely the worst way to starting a conversation.

Altonius Amakiir1 votes

That's a fair point but what do we have left to us if they won't answer questions about the game?

For instance it took a month for me to get a Nunu visual bug acknowledged as bugged. I wrote 3 bug reports (one on the pbe boards, one on the boards, and one from the client) and they still had no idea. I had to hunt down a rioter on the boards to get it fixed. And not trying to say how hard it was to fix, but it was fixed next patch after that.

I tried to find out what happened to Ghostcrawler's monthly Q&A for about 4 months and couldn't get an answer, Riot wouldn't respond and the moderators/the community responded with something along the lines of a link to an Ask Riot thinking that's what I meant. The only real response I could get was from Scarizard who isn't even a part of Riot anymore, and he didn't know.

I tried to figure out what is happening to the Item Set Tool and I got a bunch of snarky comments from moderators/the community thinking I was asking for it to be added to the new client. It took me 6 months to get an actual response, and while I treasure the response because I'm no longer in a state of extreme stress over it, it wasn't exactly an answer to my questions on the subject. Being: Why is there a limit to the sets? Why are updates to the tool never in patch notes? What is the priority on it since I know people are working on it? And when might we get unlimited item sets again?

Other questions I've tried to get info on: What happened to the melee itemization changes early this year we were promised (Repetoir happened to answer that this week coincidentally)? When is the attack speed rework going to happen/ is it still planned? What happened to the Wukong GU that was predicted to be early this year by Rioters/ when was it moved back to approximately? When is the tenacity rework to be expected?


I don't have so much a problem with them sharing statistics, although a website that just auto updates every day on winrates and playrates that they provide would be nice, I have a problem with that they seemingly have suddenly changed how they communicate with the community. They used to talk about stuff they were planning way in advanced like the Yasuo update which we were told in a big post would happen down the line, but is seemingly cancelled (according to Repetoir). Now they don't mention anything it seems. Would you honestly be able to tell me what is planned for midseason? I couldn't. I think back on previous midseasons and I remember hearing things almost as soon as preseason ended and then them building on it as the date came closer. All we know at this point, with maybe a month left, is that it has to do with bot-lane.

When I first started playing league around season 5 end I would come on the boards and it would take me close to an hour to read the red posts on gameplay from the day prior. It took me 7 minutes to read the last weeks worth today. This is a problem for the community and Riot. How can you expect people to trust your gameplay changes if you aren't talking to them? How can players get hyped for the future of league if they don't know it? I honestly don't know what is slated beyond the Ahri changes, the Aatrox changes, the LeBlanc changes, and the Akali rework; and none of those champions particularly interest me. I have a list of changes they were looking at doing for this year before preseason shipped, but I can't expect that to be relevant info anymore because it hasn't been talked about. I thought that they were no longer doing the fighter itemization this year because it wasn't mentioned, but apparently they are. It makes me angry. I want to know what's going on in the game. I want to discuss things with Riot about which direction the game should be heading in. I don't think I should need to be asking a company to communicate with it's player basis, let alone Riot. This was supposed to be one of their strong points, something they were immensely proud of as a company when I joined, it put me at ease seeing how much they talked with us and knowing it meant they truly cared. I was prepared to take what they said at face value, as I've noted from doubting whether talked of changes are happening or not, I can't take them at face value anymore.

To any Rioter that might read this: Don't let the player-company trust die out, I know it's hard to talk on the boards right now, but ignoring it isn't going to help anything. You're losing trust simply by not communicating, and it's a lot easier to lose trust than gain it back.

Tomoe Gozen2 votes

You do know what happens when they announce work way ahead of its time? Ao Shin.

Riot's VGU/GU timeline is here. After every VGU, there's a new champ in between and that's about 6 VGUs and new champs per year. They don't talk about projects they haven't even done basic explorations on because they want to avoid being taken out of context and then accused of not delivering what they "promised". And also because there's really nothing to talk about if the work hasn't even started yet.

One VGU and 2 GUs is quite a bit of time, where new champion is next (after irelia) and then both Aatrox and Akali, then next new champion. That's very well a couple of months. Now we're waiting for the next Champion Roadmap so that we get new info on what's to come.

Between Quick Gameplay Thoughts Meddler is going and quite a few Rioters addressing player concerns here and on reddit, there's quite a bit of information on almost anything you want. Or at least the pressing issues that are on players' thoughts. Surrender at 20 is literally your hub for such posts, no matter they happen to be.

I'm not sure what kind transparency you want. I think Riot's doing a fair bit of talking to us but not everything is ever going to be clear or upfront. Not because they're hiding things but because it's not possible to know everything a year in advance.

Spârky2 votes

Just going to pop in here and from a business side of things there are reasons to not reveal info such as mmr to the public. The main reason for not releasing the mmr for example is so that people can't copy how it's done and apply it to other games. For example I'm sure league has it's own algorithm for figuring out your mmr. IF they released that then they would also release their way of doing it. Also there are some studies (very few actual studies done but almost all of them) show that by not showing what rank you are or really these studies were more general but basically shows that by not showing how good someone is at something they are more likely to try harder and play longer to make sure that they are where they want to be. People if they knew they would set a goal and say something like 1900 mmr is my goal then would try super hard and once they get there they would feel accomplished and stop playing as consistently. Not saying this is everyone I'm just a normal college student that is going into video game design while taking business classes.

Also there might be some other business reason's riot can't post their data. My thought is riot either have to tell us why they can't or just post it. But for them not to post it isn't as absurd as people think it is.

Hibeki3 votes

You dont need to post your algorithm or anything of the like, but providing anything for your users to go off of when looking for answers should be fine. Instead of this artificial shit.

Velasan1 votes

Honestly it probably has nothing to do with any of that. League is an old game, made before they had stuff that kept track of everything you did in a game. You compare to Overwatch, but that game was only made a couple years ago.

It's not really an issue of transparency either, although more transparency would be nice. The question you're really asking is if Riot can institute some kind of background statistics gathering program which is more accurate.

I can't answer that, need a red post in here with knowledge of their programming department.

We have been asking for a better League website for a long time. Personally I would enjoy having a League website that would let me do things like edit my rune pages on the go, or save "test pages" for later.

Vekkna1 votes

Just to point out, I made this exact same thread on reddit word for word and it got shut down with negative upvotes and a deletion. Propaganda machine ahoy!

The League reddit is nothing but an esports fanclub with a splash of Memes & Games. I honestly have no idea why Riot prefers Reddit when there are only a handful of gameplay-related posts for every dozen pages of topics.

Mokuto Bunshi4 votes

Probably because there are only a handful of gameplay-related posts for every dozen pages of topics.

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