Why do people still think Jax is viable?

FalconPawwwwnch·Apr 29, 2015·3 votes·915 views

He's D tier, C tier at best

Terrible base stats on a melee champion, no team utility other than E stun, his early game is even worse against mages now than before his last set of buffs because they took 5 MR away from rank 1 ult, he takes too long to ramp up and has no laning presence, he's useless when behind, no 2v1 presence or ability to farm in a 2v1 because no ranged farming tools or sustain, and I could go on.

Stop picking this champion in ranked games. Pick whatever you want in normals but please stop playing him in ranked, you're throwing games from champ select by picking Jax. There's a reason he's never picked in competitive anymore and is consistently in the bottom 20% of champ winrates

17 Comments

Leti the YetiApr 29, 20153 votes

Can you give me reasons why he isn't that goes against what I said?

yes

Terrible base stats on a melee champion,

Some of the highest base AD, health, MS, average MR, the rest is pretty average.. only thing that's terrible is his hp5

no team utility other than E stun

It's an AoE stun, combined with his hop.. it's a good hard engage which is alot more than what other melee carries offer

his early game is even worse against mages

wat...

You got counter picked, get fucked
amongst the longest targeted gap closers in the game
Most top laners get fked in the event some mage decideds to be a scumbag and go top lane anyway
wtf why'd you pick jax top against em if you thought it was such a bad idea

he takes too long to ramp up and has no laning presence, he's useless when behind

not every champ needs lane presence, there are only so many lane bullies in this game though if you get phage, a slight lead, and you could probably hard engage the other guy when they overextend and beat them to death so..... did I mention hard engage?

no ranged farming tools or sustain

most top lane picks don't have range, he already has all this nice stuff dude...

no 2v1 presence or ability to farm in a 2v1 because no ranged farming tools or sustain, and I could go on.

I can only name a hand full of champs that can actually do this.. even with range it's difficult

20% of champ winrates

need more data/ poor interpretation

FalconPawwwwnchApr 29, 20152 votes

Highest health? Lol are you trolling, he has one of the lowest fighter healths

Average armor? He has less armor than ashe

bottom 20% win rate is not needing more data, thats based on a sample size of millions of games, most people consider a hundred-a few hundred to be statistically significant

Leti the YetiApr 29, 20153 votes

http://puu.sh/huN6p/fcf2b1c1a8.png well he beats out like 90 champs on health not high enough?

Jax comes with resistance steroids, most other champs don't...this balances out did you know Garen has abysmal hp5? which is balanced out by his passive.. but we don't call him out on his sustain now do we?

Win rate alone is not enough to conclude anything Let me remind you that Poppy, at one point had a 100% win rate in the LCS...

FalconPawwwwnchApr 29, 20152 votes

Okay, now look at his level 18 base stats

So high for a late game champion

Yea of course win rate isn't enough to conclude everything, you need a sample size, of course a sample size of 1 game is stupid to use, but websites use a sample of thousands-millions, which is exactly what I said, and what you keep avoiding for some reason

Stop strawmanning me lol, it's not working

Leti the YetiApr 29, 20151 votes

Base 18 is still pretty good, certainly not bad beating out little over half the roster in his health very high base AD same MR as any of champ with mr scalings passive further enhances his above median AS and ult balances out his armor

We're gonna need abit more data than that Apparently Nunu has a very impressive win rate according to the sample size of millions we better nerf that Discrepancies like that show that sample size and win rate apparently is still not enough there is no set method in statistics

Strawmanning?, I don't think I am If you believe there to be some misinterpretations, you out to point them out

FedAsFukApr 29, 20152 votes

Your argument is he is bad in 2v1 but dislike him in soloq? How does that work? He isn't bad for soloQ, isn't punished as hard as 5s, amazing split push post tri force. Is he god tier for soloQ no, he is still a good pick though. Good to gank for, snowballs hard, can lose lane and still be very strong. I would actually put him more around tier 2 maybe 2.5. In 5s he is a much worse pick, needs to be protected, punished by JG as well as top and can be lane swapped and shot in the foot.

You make valid points for 5s, for soloQ it really doesn't matter, I have seen AP Garen win. Can we stop blaming teammates picks for losses and accept what we did wrong in game as the reason the game was lost?

FalconPawwwwnchApr 29, 20152 votes

His win rate is in the bottom 20% for solo queue

In competitive he's even worse because he has no 2v1 potential or utility whatsoever

I.e., he's bad in solo queue as is, and even worse in competitive

FedAsFukApr 29, 20152 votes

And heimer is top 10% win rate, does that mean we all need to play heimer?

Hell 1-2 months ago heimer had the best win rate in the game, why isn't he being played by everyone? Are win rates really that telling?

Does this mean heimer is god tier? here is the current win rate champs

http://loldb.gameguyz.com/statistics/winRate

FalconPawwwwnchApr 29, 20152 votes

I gave reasons in the OP other than his win rate for why he's trash in solo queue

Can you give me reasons why he isn't that goes against what I said? He has nothing going for him except his splitpushing, and there's better picks for that in solo queue

SEKAIApr 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I gave reasons in the OP other than his win rate for why he's trash in solo queue

Can you give me reasons why he isn't that goes against what I said? He has nothing going for him except his splitpushing, and there's better picks for that in solo queue

To be fair, win rate in solo queue doesn't really mean anything by itself, unless it's to the extreme.

LB used to sat on 46% even when she insta deleted people with no counterplay due to silence. Or Lee wandered around sub 50% win rate all the time but enjoyed 90% pick ban and 50+% win rate in tourneys.

I wouldn't say Jax is completely gone tbh.

FalconPawwwwnchApr 29, 20152 votes

That's because Lee Sin gets better as you get better as a player

Jax doesn't have that other than timing E and R and maybe ward jumping lol

SEKAIApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That's because Lee Sin gets better as you get better as a player

Jax doesn't have that other than timing E and R and maybe ward jumping lol

That's because Lee has a broken design that encourages 1 man army in a team game where everyone is intentionally restricted to promote teamplay.

Yes it takes skill to master Lee, but the reward before S5 was just completely off the chart.

Jax is what a 1 man army in this genre should be like, he needs others to scratch his back early so he can scratch theirs back later.

All he needs is maybe some smoothing then he's fine really.

FedAsFukApr 29, 20151 votes

Depends on the player, there are split push focused guys who are rather poor in team fights and stick to split pushing as much as possible. In that sense he is amazing.

Nobody can say what is good in soloQ, if a player can play it well it is good in soloQ. I know Galio mains, doesn't make him good in solOQ but they know the champ, so they make it work. Same with singed mains, and countless other champs. The whole point is instead of basing the win or loss of a game in champ select do what needs to be done to win. This post is almost certainly out of frustration of a bad Jax. If a bad player was the issue, IDC if they were on Maokai or Sion or any "meta" pick. Or any pickt hat is "god tier" for SoloQ. It would not have mattered

Maximum ZileanApr 29, 20151 votes

He's still a good solo que pick due to his amazing split push potential. But he isn't someone you should blindly first pick since his early game is so trash, all the enemy has to do is lock in Darius or some other lane bully and Jax is 100% null and void.

SEKAIApr 29, 20151 votes

I am not sure if he needs some love taps currently but for Jax overall I do think he is among the better implementation of risk and reward, if we aren't remembering the days of passive dodging.

He has slow ramp up time because when he does get there, he can pretty much single handedly win the entire game.

Maybe give him some early smoothing then he's good to go.

FalconPawwwwnchApr 29, 20152 votes

What's the reward? Yea okay his late game is good but it's not gonna compare to an ADC's regardless

If his early game is bad and he has no utility/base stats and he's bad when behind, there's no reason to pick him

SEKAIApr 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What's the reward? Yea okay his late game is good but it's not gonna compare to an ADC's regardless

If his early game is bad and he has no utility/base stats and he's bad when behind, there's no reason to pick him

Well his highlights are his tower rush, hybrid scaling, dueling and aoe stun.

The range vs melee issue isn't only concerning Jax, which they should have had it sorted ages ago. Oh well.