While also being ranged
While also having better defensive steroids
While also having a better laning phase
While also being a better jungler
While also being an ADC
Riot doesn't favor ranged champions
Captain Aishi46 votesyou forgot a word at the end of your title op.... 'Combined'
Elwe The Jungler34 votesWhile having Insane AoE damage
While having a Blind
Cowgirl Ed19 votesHis sustain is also better than Vladimir before 9+Revolver
Beuhlakor18 votesAatrox ? Is that a champion ?
I thought Aatrox was a special type of super-minion.
PS : yes I'm salty as **** about the state of Aatrox.
Serika Zero13 votesHe is, and he is very strong in the right hands. The hands of a player that can avoid clicking him and then pressing lock in
On a serious side. Illaoi is worse than Aatrox
Dessem2 votesI actually faced an Aatrox who did pretty great and could 2v1 most of our team. Went Strength of Ages, BotRK and Rageblade, then picked up Maw and Guardian Angel to basically 1v1 Jax with ease and have room left to kill mid Annie afterwards.
A Ocean3 votesUsed to main Illaoi for a few months after release, I've never dropped another main that fast. Can only agree with you. Fuckin joke version of Aatrox.
THEJJSLAY1 votesCan someone explain why either of those champions are bad at all? I've played them both to great success. Am i doing something different or what?
Serika Zero2 votesBecause her abilities are fucking slow as hell. Her q has one second wind-up time, very easy to avoid by just moving lefr or right if the enemy keeps focus on you and not talking with his girl on fb while playing the game. Anyone with less than 100ping can dodge it. Combined with this, she is stationary during the animation, making hitting skill shots on her easy. And over 50% of the heroes in this game have dashes or speed buffs. Basically she doesn't have a q in lane against people that understand her.
Next, her w is a targeted dash which procs you passive or ultimate tentacles. Its a half decent skill by itself, similar to irelia q.
Next passive, since I've mentioned it just now. Spawns random tentacles over the nearby walls.... Which reads as: free farm for the enemy. You basically have a passive that lets the enemy get gold faster than you. Even worse than her q.
Next e. Draw target spirit out. To begin with the range is shit. And it can be blocked by minions. If only these were the only problems with it. It has a long windup time just like other skill shots( think blitz and thresh). Except.. Aside from range difference if any of those 2 land their q. The target is most likely going low or dies. In late game it just dies. But illaoi is different. Her e provides no cc. Attacking illaoi lowers duration of spirit. ATTACKING the spirit does reduced damage to targets. Which means, if you DARE to attack that the enemy can attack you and you lose the trade. The only good thing is that you can proc q heal on it, and that's a minor thing compared to the disadvantage it brings. And even in later game states. If morgana, lux, blitz, thresh etc land their Q. There's a very high chance for kill. Illaoi grabs spirit, you back off for 20s and gg, its like nothing happened
So, its like she doesn't have an e.
R gives her multiple w dashes. And spawns invincible tentacles. Fucking hentai plot. But you can easily just get out of her circle for a few seconds and you are fine. Just like going out of fiddle or phanteon ult. You dont fight in there and illaoi lacks the cc to keep you in it.
So in lane she has only a W and R. She was designed as a teamfight hero. Yet acroaa all servers. She has the lowest kda of all heros, 1.7 or so. Hence generally she gets like 1-2 kills/assist per team fight. Compare that with darius or garen. Their numbers are much better.
So, you got a shitty laning phase and a shitty team fight phase. No cc and no escapes.
So, if you want to win as illaoi you must always be better than your enemy. There's ni option for equal ground. You start with a disadvantage from minute 1
Urgonnalearn2day1 votes[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=smhPkyH9,comment-id=00150000000200010001,timestamp=2016-04-08T04:04:21.301+0000)
Because her abilities are fucking slow as hell. Her q has one second wind-up time, very easy to avoid by just moving lefr or right if the enemy keeps focus on you and not talking with his girl on fb while playing the game. Anyone with less than 100ping can dodge it. Combined with this, she is stationary during the animation, making hitting skill shots on her easy. And over 50% of the heroes in this game have dashes or speed buffs. Basically she doesn't have a q in lane against people that understand her.
Next, her w is a targeted dash which procs you passive or ultimate tentacles. Its a half decent skill by itself, similar to irelia q.
Next passive, since I've mentioned it just now. Spawns random tentacles over the nearby walls.... Which reads as: free farm for the enemy. You basically have a passive that lets the enemy get gold faster than you. Even worse than her q.
Next e. Draw target spirit out. To begin with the range is shit. And it can be blocked by minions. If only these were the only problems with it. It has a long windup time just like other skill shots( think blitz and thresh). Except.. Aside from range difference if any of those 2 land their q. The target is most likely going low or dies. In late game it just dies. But illaoi is different. Her e provides no cc. Attacking illaoi lowers duration of spirit. ATTACKING the spirit does reduced damage to targets. Which means, if you DARE to attack that the enemy can attack you and you lose the trade. The only good thing is that you can proc q heal on it, and that's a minor thing compared to the disadvantage it brings. And even in later game states. If morgana, lux, blitz, thresh etc land their Q. There's a very high chance for kill. Illaoi grabs spirit, you back off for 20s and gg, its like nothing happened
So, its like she doesn't have an e.
R gives her multiple w dashes. And spawns invincible tentacles. Fucking hentai plot. But you can easily just get out of her circle for a few seconds and you are fine. Just like going out of fiddle or phanteon ult. You dont fight in there and illaoi lacks the cc to keep you in it.
So in lane she has only a W and R. She was designed as a teamfight hero. Yet acroaa all servers. She has the lowest kda of all heros, 1.7 or so. Hence generally she gets like 1-2 kills/assist per team fight. Compare that with darius or garen. Their numbers are much better.
So, you got a shitty laning phase and a shitty team fight phase. No cc and no escapes.
So, if you want to win as illaoi you must always be better than your enemy. There's ni option for equal ground. You start with a disadvantage from minute 1
You forgot she can be successful in the right team comp. Maybe that's what the other guy is doing? I don't like champs that require other champs to be successful btw, but I've seen used well with Malphite.
Serika Zero1 votesYes. Its definitely possible to do that. And honestly, that's the only way to play illaoi properly. However... Most people would build their team around their mid or adc. The carry roles in general instead of the tank.
THEJJSLAY1 voteshttp://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/32442814#ranked-stats Her entire goal in life is to deal damage. What I do is build frozen gauntlet into steraks then just dunk from there. Literally after I get spirit visage I can tank and usually win 1v5's, however again he point isn't to get kills its to tank and deal damage. For example I can jump into most 1v5s and if i get a 5 man ult+my e +my w off twice that's probably a carry dead and everything else at at the most half hp. Your e is your most powerful laning tool, landing the e on the champion then the q on both of them isn't hard as they either run out of the range and apply the tentacle aids or come at you and lose because they are taking almost double damage because hitting both them and the spirit will apply tons of damage, really all you have to do is learn to position, level 6 the enemy jungler ganks you and you get an easy double kill 90% of the time
Sorry if this isn't very coherent I just got done with 6 hours of exams
Serika Zero1 votesI haven't slept in 35 hours. I'm working 9 hours per day and traveling 6. If I can understand the above, everyone else can. Tho you are making one huge mistake.
"Your e is your most powerful laning tool, landing the e on the champion then the q on both of them isn't hard as they either run out of the range and apply the tentacle aids
Rule nr 1 when fighting Illaoi: kill every tentacles around so she will have not get extra damage from her W
Rule nr 2: if you don't want to trade with her atm (for whatever reason), stay behind minions.
Rule nr 3: always attack move
As I mentioned before, her E and Q have HUGE wind-up times. Assuming you are attack moving in different directions after every auto attack. It will be close to impossible for Illaoi to hit any of them. If you also got a dash or self speed (
etc .... you can't do anything anymore
Also, "running out of range" is a mistake many people make when fighting Illaoi for the first few times. I've done it too. The part that I've learned soon after is that if instead I fight Illaoi, her E becomes useless even if it hits me. Sure, she can heal herself a little bit, but then I do more dmg to her. Again, all the damage the ghost takes is given to me as reduced damage. The match is like: you use 1 second to do an attack that does 100dmg on the close I take like 70 or 60 damage. In the same second you do that attack, I attack you for 100 dmg. You take 80-90 dmg due to runes.
That's the problem. "I can land my E" matters only if the enemy is stupid enough to run out of range. The only times you can't trade (attack) illaoi is when she has a lot of caster minions around and you don't. In that case, you stay behind yours. And have 30s patience.
THEJJSLAY1 votesDude you know the rules but the difference between what you 'should do' and what you can do is huge, it sounds like you've never played against or even seen a competent illaoi player. I keep up an average of 6 tentacles in lane and punish my lane opponent if he even attempts to take one out. You are making a ton of assumptions and acting like every player in silver bronze and gold has plat and diamond level mechanics.
Serika Zero1 votes"attack move" is not diamond or plat level mechanics >.> its not about mechanics. Illaoi loses when the enemy knows her weaknesses.
And as far as "competent illaoi players". I play vs gold, plat and diamond players. After the first 2 games vs illaoi when I had no clue what so ever what she does. I've been stomping her over and over again. She gets at best 2 tentacles in lane, and that's because they are under their tower and I'm playing a melee.
seriously, she's so weak......... teemo gives more to the team than she does. I rather have a moderkaiser top lane than a illaoi in my team
Irelia Bot17 votesNAKED Graves take 4 seconds each round to reload
Shadragon26 votesI read that as "Naked Graves takes 4 seconds each round to reload" ( ͡º ͜ʖ ͡º)
Irelia Bot10 votesI read that as "Naked Graves takes 4 seconds each round to reload" ( ͡º ͜ʖ ͡º)
Just made it as you suggested although I I was intending to say "Make Graves take 4 seconds each round to reload"
Lord Galvatron3 votesLol wtf is this.
Velzard of Koz3 voteshttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/yd28-v9D8fY/maxresdefault.jpg
( ͡º ͜ʖ ͡º)
EDIT: Okay finally first one that actually works. Are we now censoring shirtless Graves too? Risotto pls.
Lowvyr5 votesRISOTTO MFW YOU CHEESY RIOT
Skelenth5 votesWhat about Solid Graves?
Spoofghoul14 voteswhat bugs me is the warlordsbloodlust
it isnt just graves, i see more and more adc grabbing warlords + 2 lifesteal items and draintanking everything.
Graves has good mobility on top of that and, his massive defense steroid 40-60% lifesteal with high dps/burst/waveclear/mobility
its just a pain to deal with
NineTailedMystic5 votesThey're nerfing Warlords or already nerfed Warlords to be 25% effective on ranged champs vs minions.
Hard Penetrator7 votesIts ridiculous that ADC is best bruiser in the game.
Ichabod Kong7 votesHim quitting smoking REALLY helped him become a much better everything than anyone. Huh.
Keti4 votesPeople complain about graves's cigar, but warwick can't even get a new splash art :(((
It Hertz When IP1 votesIt'll probably arrive with his rework, which from what I understand is happening. Eventually.
SanKakU1 votesI feel like Galio needs a rework more than anyone else right now.
SkyBlade791 votesNah, Nunu needs it the most. Walking R button, basically.
SanKakU1 votesAt least his R button works.
SkyBlade791 votesGalio's ult can be an instant teamfight win if your team is good.
Emperor Time4 votesThat's a problem with those champions not Graves. All the champions you mentioned haven't been meta for a while, and there are drain tanks stronger than all of them.
Graves is getting some changes to his Autos in next patch to prevent non crit graves from dealing a lot of damage with autos, but equalizes after a couple crit items.
Riot doesn't favor anything, they're giving ap items in 6.9 much more cdr and are making items for ap bruisers finally. I know it's hard to understand, but there are real people working at riot and sometimes they don't have the answers to how to change certain champions without completely gutting them and right now they are doing just that with Graves. Also riot aren't gods, they won't have all the solutions immediately, things take time so please calm the fuck down sir.
Here is the link to smashedgizmo's twitter where he states the current idea for Graves changes: https://twitter.com/SmashGizmo/status/717970524131840000
J E B A ł T E D2 votesThat looks like a fucking ridiculous buff for crit shots, graves will still be stupendous
Surfer Ashe3 votesAnother shitty diamond thread blindly upvoted
Funny you pick shitty kiteable champ - how about choosing someone like Xin, you cuck?
Need Gold 4 Tent9 votesHe outdamages Xin, heck, I lost to him as a Yi. When our ap carry (forgot who, it was either Veigar or LB) unloaded on him, he survived it with more than 1/2 hp, and nuked her back. Yes, NUKED her back. Check his items for MR, entirely glass cannon except for death's dance and sterak's. Not sure how this works.
Though maybe I should've built more damage, but BorK/Sated is plenty of damage already.
crippler382 votesno way it was veigs, veigar's kit would do all that while the guy was stunned and 2 of his abilities (ultimate and w) would do each over a thousand damage base, so unless for some reason graves was fighting something and getting his passive up before he was stunned and has like, a maw, he SHOULD die from that alone since even full tanks with mr are brought down to like 25% hp
veigs is my new favorite mid laner because of this reason
Shadowjak1011 votesHis passive still gives defensive bonuses?
crippler381 votesdoesn't his E give him that now? pretty sure I heard people were complaining about the amount of protections he gets despite being so high burst
Rook Loux2 votesAt max rank his E gives 40 resistances stacking up to 4 times (that's 160 armor and mr)
Anags3 votesSo you are comparing a champ with a good kit to three champs with bad kits?! Of course Graves is better. His kit is much better and cooler design than either of those 3 champs.
The Ecdysiast2 votesExactly. Two of them need reworks and the third is out of commission because every other Sated jungler is better.
JerulEon2 votesLOL for sure!
The one issue I have with graves is that he outdamages and outsustains me as Volibear in the jungle. And since he builds damage, he outfarms me in the jungle.
XPL Turdong1 votesLOL for sure!
The one issue I have with graves is that he outdamages and outsustains me as Volibear in the jungle. And since he builds damage, he outfarms me in the jungle.
Graves doesn't outsustain anybody in the jungle, he has no built in sustain and warlords doesn't work on jungle creeps.
JerulEon3 votes[{quoted}](name=XPL Turdong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=smhPkyH9,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2016-04-07T23:58:01.338+0000)
Graves doesn't outsustain anybody in the jungle, he has no built in sustain and warlords doesn't work on jungle creeps.
Have you seen his clears? All he really needs is a second tier jg item and he can kite the camps easy while not using much mana since his autos do most of the damage.
Starcraft243ver2 votesWhile having no good cc, provide nothing to the team, and just has a small dash.
LatetotheRace16 votes"provide nothing to the team" What's a team? Graves is a 1v5 carry :p
SkyBlade793 votesThe three he compared it to really invalidate your comment. Olaf doesn't have a dash, Warwick doesn't have a dash (unless you count the ult), and Aatrox's dash is so horribly timed and easy to interrupt that it hardly even counts.
BattleBalladeer3 votesand just has a small dash.
http://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/10/What-Excuse-me-Say-what-GIF.gif
The E button dash is just fluff. The true purpose of the ability is to give him another bullet and defensive stats. That fact that it goes over like 4 walls in the whole map is just extra. Its an afterthought to the actual ability:
Active: Graves dashes in the target direction, reloading one Shell and gaining bonus armor and magic resistance for 4 seconds, stacking up to 4 times. Each pellet reduces Quickdraw's cooldown by 0.5 seconds upon impact with an enemy. Furthermore, any damage dealt against non-minions will also refresh Quickdraw's bonus resistances. Quickdraw resets Graves's autoattack timer.
「 Bonus Resistances: 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 」「 Maximum Resistances: 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 」
Graves is essentially just a juggernaut with range. That's what he takes to the team.
Hell- his ult is even an execute 
with range.
XPL Turdong2 voteshttp://reactiongif.org/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/10/What-Excuse-me-Say-what-GIF.gif
The E button dash is just fluff. The true purpose of the ability is to give him another bullet and defensive stats. That fact that it goes over like 4 walls in the whole map is just extra. Its an afterthought to the actual ability: Quickdraw resets Graves's autoattack timer.
Graves is essentially just a juggernaut with range. That's what he takes to the team.
Hell- his ult is even an execute
Executes do more damage the less health you have, graves ult does the same exact damage to any amount of health.
