If Nidalee and Elise got their melee bonus resists removed, Jayce doesn't need them either

FalconPawwwwnch·Oct 31, 2016·215 votes·6,621 views

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188 Comments

Sahn UzalOct 31, 201652 votes

Getting on top of Jayce is already unrewarding because of his Melee E. Those resistances make it even worse.

TalisidOct 31, 201628 votes

I'd rather see where he ends up after the changes to Ghostblade and Maw before any more nerfs happen.

AirKingNeoOct 31, 20163 votes

But it isn't the items, it's Jayce. You can nerf Protobelt and Rylai's but does that fix Kennen? No.

DunkinNoobsOct 31, 201632 votes

It absolutely would fix Kennen. Protobelt gives him engage ability without flash which is something he's really not supposed to have. Rylais gives him a tanky rush item that still gives tons of AP, again something he's not supposed to have. Items are currently in Kennens favor to an absurd degree and nerfing them would absolutely bring Kennen into line.

AirKingNeoOct 31, 20164 votes

No, because Kennen's problem ISN'T HIS TEAMFIGHT, it's his laning phase. Why do you think the top lane meta is ENTIRELY ANTI LANING PHASE CHAMPIONS? Poppy: Can't die. Jayce: Ranged and also joke into all in and tanky. Kennen: poke and all in. Gnar: ranged kiting.

You don't see people playing Riven, Fiora, Jax, Darius, Irelia, ect top lane.

DunkinNoobsOct 31, 201619 votes

Kennen's laning phase has always been good, even when he sucked. That means it's not why he's a problem.

PoskeNov 1, 20162 votes

Lets not forget abysall and zhonya which just happend to give cdr to an energy user

EcchiOtakuTMNov 1, 20164 votes

Not to mention protobelt fixes kennen's waveclear issue*

OyddAWqJ5rOct 31, 201620 votes

Jayce was intended to be played either as a Fighter or a Marksman. Well that's cute and all but in reality he's a Marksman Artillery Mage through and through no matter what simply because ranged mode exists. That being said, ranged harasshole shouldn't be able to switch to a "you finally got past my wall of poke and zoning, here's the beefy melee top laner you wanted to face---if you can stick to me after my knockback anyway!"

Agreed.

MohawkBirdOct 31, 20164 votes

I feel like you just pulled that class name out of your ass. Calling Jayce a mage is just straight wrong.

HueboneOct 31, 201617 votes

Except not, because according to the league classifications he fits the artillery mage role, but then he transforms into the skirmisher role, which is weird because the artillery mage's weakness is supposed to be that anyone that gets close to them should melt them. So essentially he fits in BOTH roles nicely, with the added mixed damage, poke, burst, knock back, engage, disengage. I wish they'd at least made him gain the weakness of both roles instead of the mixed strengths of both.

Edit: I would also like to point out that a mage is classified as a caster, there is no specification to ap or ad.

5000000000000000Oct 31, 20168 votes

I'm fine with calling him a mage, but I'm not comfortable calling him a burst mage. He's more like an artillery mage.

My Waifu VanillaNov 1, 20162 votes

I mean when he bursts me for 800 damage with Melee Q+Auto+E it feels like a burst mage. Throw in the ranged QE and we have actual 100-0 potential....that isn't poke anymore.

5000000000000000Nov 1, 20162 votes

If he has to get into melee range to do his full burst, wouldn't that be closer to a diver than burst mage? http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses "Burst Mages Burst Mages aim to single out vulnerable targets by locking them down and following up with a devastating barrage of damage from range. Burst Mages struggle heavily against beefier targets who can shrug off their initial spike of damage."

Also, it looks like Riot classifies him as an artillery/skirmisher, so there's that.

"Skirmishers

Unlike Assassins, Skirmishers aim to shred through any nearby enemy that approaches. Because Skirmishers lack high-end burst damage or reliable ways of closing in on high-priority targets, they are instead armed with situationally powerful defensive tools to survive in the fray, along with extreme sustained damage to cut down even the most durable targets."

That fits him, I guess?

Kosm1KNov 1, 20164 votes

He's just bullshit.

any squishy gets fucked by his ranged Q+E combo, any tanky gets fucked by his constant poke and his gigantic damage from his melee E that does a percentage of the enemy's MAX hp PLUS his 100% of his BONUS AD and if that wasn't enough that same E also grants him extra safety to go back to poking because it just denies anyone melee from closing in on him. His bonus resistances only aggravate the situation. Not to mention the fact that he's already innately tanky thanks to the fact that he gets so much AD. I get the misfortune of playing against him top and all he has to do is sit back, QE and if I manage to get close, just E me away until he can just kill me if i'm going melee, and if I'm a ranged, I have innately less tankiness for obvious reasons, yet am still not in close enough range to hit him because of his goddamn QE combo that deals the same amount of damage in the entire AOE of it when it makes more sense for it to work like tiamat. I mean ziggs ULT does less damage at the edges, I dont understand why that super high damage basic ability doesn't, especially when it usually does just as much damage as an ult can.

YumaS2AstralNov 1, 20169 votes

Jayce is one of the very few actual AD mages in the game, as most other possible AD mages end up becoming ADCs, assassins, or fighters

Sahn UzalNov 1, 20163 votes

Varus Jayce Gangplank These are the 3 AD Mages in the game.

VoidStaresBackNov 1, 20165 votes

Urgot

Sahn UzalNov 1, 20166 votes

Urgot is listed as a Unique playstyle. Urgot is not an AD mage, Urgot is Urgot.

Avios1Nov 1, 20163 votes

Former urgot main can confirm.

Nothing can fight the beauty of Urgot.

Tobias EtoileNov 1, 20161 votes

They are AD casters; not mages. None of them use magic abilities.
Varus can be played completely as an full on adc that differs from his mid lane caster role.

Sahn UzalNov 1, 20162 votes

I got the info from Riot's list of subclasses.

ProfDrDeathOct 31, 201619 votes

You're probably right, given that his base Armor values are also scratching the upper level for ranged AD champions already. This scratching also means that, essentially, he has similar Armor levels to several melee champions like Fiora Zac Fizz Yasuo .

Additionally, look at his base HP: Both Nid and Elise have below 1900 base HP. Yet Jayce, for some reason, has 2100 base HP.

YumaS2AstralNov 1, 201617 votes

Mordekaiser Shen would kill to have such base stats

ESeTyRCOct 31, 20169 votes

You're totally right. Jayce doesn't need those resists.

While we're at it, I suppose we should make Nidalee and Elise's melee form spells cost mana.

If Jayce doesn't have manaless abilities in melee form, Nidalee and Elise don't need them either.

Or did you want Jayce to have manaless abilities in melee form instead?

Edit: I'd rather see his mana costs go up and his mana return in melee form go up.

ReZisT LustNov 1, 20162 votes

ehhh for nid its kinda natural that it takes no mana cause shes a cat same with elise too jayce makes an electric field his knockback could theoretically be manaless tho since its a knockback

Umbra IoniaNov 1, 20166 votes

WTF? Logic in LoL? Jinx use mana to fire rockets.

SinlaireNov 1, 20163 votes

How do you think she carries and reloads all those rockets? Skinny white girl coming in at 110 max carrying dozens of shells at pounds a piece? nah.

tis magic bro.

Jinzo TorranceOct 31, 20166 votes

You really hate Jayce

After 4 years of playing him seeing this shit is depressing.

FalconPawwwwnchOct 31, 201623 votes

Jayce has always been a problematic champ to balance

Right after his release he was pick orban in season 2 worlds, so they had to nerf him

Then in season 3 he was a problem for half the season, so they had to nerf him

Jayce has always been either 100% pick/ban or trash

Jinzo TorranceOct 31, 20162 votes

Jayce was not trash before S6 buffs, are you insane?

Have you ever seen a Diamond Jayce before then?

Over InnsmouthOct 31, 201612 votes

Diamond anything can make something seem half-decent. I saw an Aatrox main the other day who made the Champion look amazing.

Jinzo TorranceOct 31, 20162 votes

So high-elo mains show that the champion is not "trash" but has his strenght when played correctly.

Before Faker played Viktor at the LCS in S5, Viktor was considered a troll pick and had almost no playerbase except for few dedicated mains.

Over InnsmouthOct 31, 201611 votes

Viktor wasnt considered a troll pick, he just didnt boast a larger playerbase until Faker picked him up.

Jinzo TorranceOct 31, 20162 votes

You didn't play him in Ranked then, you had to mute your team everytime

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3666312

Rock MDNov 1, 20166 votes

{quoted}

You didn't play him in Ranked then, you had to mute your team everytime

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3666312

That was like what, season 3?

Literally almost 2 years later he got his rework and that's when he became good and it took all of half a year to be the 2nd most popular midlaner in professional play (behind Azir).

TiiGzOct 31, 20165 votes

Highlighting a hero's core strengths and weaknesses is the best way to buff/nerf heroes.

I think that this is a really great nerf idea for him. The reason Jayce is back in the meta is because the mana restrictions to his early game were removed and he no longer has to rush tear and can go right for damage. Riot buffed Jayce's core strength which is his ability to poke

But. Now that he is back in the meta, Riot should look to nerf his core weakness - which is getting past his poke and into melee range. Riot should consider rewarding players that get are able to do this and removing his resistances, or at least lowering them would be a great start.

Sire HippingtonOct 31, 20165 votes

And what exactly does/did that acomplish? I don't recall those to getting any healthier from that change, just more binary as they only could go melee if they already were winning the fight and just had to execute someone. The main thing about Jayce melee from is that the entire combo comes in a split second, deals tons of damage, and kncocks your opponent back while also slowing him, so he rarly gets any return damage anyway. I hardly heared anyone complain about Jayce beeing overhelming and to tanky in a lengthy melee encounter...

Jayce already is a champ that snowballs hard both ways and falls of alot once teamfights start as he can't really afford to use his melee form outsde of 1v1, removeing that defense would make him even worse for teamfigths and if behind while changeing prettymuch nothing about his 1v1 and snowballing.

Sahn UzalNov 1, 20162 votes

It takes unnecessary power out of his kit. Which is a great way to nerf a champion without making mains feel awful about it.

Sire HippingtonNov 1, 20163 votes

Those kinds of nerfs are only good if a champion is healthy but simply overtuned or overused, and even then it's not a all that effective nerf, but rather a placebo that shows people 'hey, we nerfed him hard, takeing away all that def stats' when it actually does next to nothing when he's used properly.

If you want to change how a kit works even just a little, especially how frustraiting it is to face it, then you have to hit the strong points a bit and not just double down on weaknesses or takeing away excess power.

bill84Oct 31, 20165 votes

I would rather see nerfs in which his base mana is decreased, but the mana return is increased a little bit so that you actually have to use melee form instead of it just being a part of his burst combo.

SniperkajNov 1, 20165 votes

So bad idea. Nerf ANYTHING but that. Anything. He will basically never be able to go melee if he is even, creating an even more feast-famine style champion. You are just finding things Jayce has in his kit, and trying to take it away in order to gut him. How would you react if they suggested to remove the stacking from Nasus - cuz the other juggernauts doenst stack damage? Or removed Jax' stun? Or Mundos AD steroid? Just because u dont know how to play vs doesnt mean he should be hard gutted...

Tis a nice dayNov 1, 20164 votes

He just wanted a civilized discussion.

Bladerunner7777Nov 1, 20165 votes

Yeah, and he said his opinion, now he's being downvoted

That's not a discussion

TeCoolMageNov 1, 20163 votes

Just because u dont know how to play vs doesnt mean he should be hard gutted...

Isn't exactly an opinion

GayFluffyUnicornNov 1, 20163 votes

True it is not an opinion but a fact. Boards don't like facts. Especially the bronze-gold community don't want to hear they are bad.

It Hertz When IPNov 1, 20162 votes

Taken at face value it is. The problem is that Sniperkaj is basically trying to state that the very fact that OP wants to discuss this means that he must be completely ignorant of Jayce and isn't qualified to discuss him, followed by some completely moronic attempts at analogies that indicate he didn't actually read the title, just saw the name "Jayce" and got triggered.

MorgManBasherNov 1, 20165 votes

Just revert the changes rather than nerfing his resistances so I can go back to playing jayce top with item 3025 and item 3068

I prefer playing bruiser jayce anyway

SpârkyNov 1, 20161 votes

I personally think that he doesn't need a nerf if so a smaller one. What I think needs to happen is some of his counters need to get buffed. I also think that its not jayce that is strong I think the items combined with the meta is making him so good. Just my thought