I think League has lost its main selling point.

Hayaishi2·Nov 12, 2018·120 votes·22,859 views

When i first found this game back in season 2 i remember the website that told me about it said one of the game's "pros" was that every match was different. As someone that had never played a MOBA and was tired of the senseless grind of MMORPGs this was the thing that lured me in.

Fast forward to season 8 to me it feels like this game has lost that. I feel like i've played the same match for 7 months just with (Sometimes) different champions. But every game feels the same, i know how the game is going to go 10 minutes in and my teammates do to and this is why they give up after a rough early game because the game becomes predictable at this point. You are going to slowly bleed to death with no way to stop the bleeding until you lose.

So this is what League has come to. Perhaps one day it'll go back to what it was.

95 Comments

Fear the KaynNov 12, 201827 votes

Riot started to care WAY too much about peofessional play and it has really impacted normal players

JamareeNov 12, 201820 votes

To be fair, a lot of that difference came from a time when everyone was new so no one knew they were doing so the meta was far more loose, as the game became wider, a meta began to form and thus pockets of things began to gather to the point we have now.

3TWarriorNov 13, 20182 votes

or, you know, that almost every attempt at innovation for the game gets nerfed(though the real issue is when it gets nerfed improperly), champions with sub-par winrates get nerfed because they're good at team play or objective control, mechanics that have been a part of the game forever get removed

the "average" system of matchmaking, bugs that should not exist in the first place, shady business tactics, PR becoming the voice of the company instead of the creators, game modes being abandoned or other features promised as "working on it" or "soon" ,

Overloaded kits starting to flood the champion pool and making unhealthy standards

damage has removed almost every sense of playing the game right and instead is more about getting lucky or being "wrong" with what you do

champion updates being made without consideration to the players or their opponents

lots of stuff has gone wrong since league was at its peak. They do not even release a player count any more, which is not a good sign

MadVikingNov 12, 201815 votes

ESports ruined the game which is why I don't watch LoL ESports, nor do I endorse it.

The entire game is balanced and catered to ESports events. You have god tier champions that don't get taken down to size because they make Riot butt loads ofmoney and are favored at these events, and then you have a massive pool of champions that been in the dumpster tier for ages get nerfed for stupid reasons, and then they get zero spotlight because they're not appealing for money making or ESports events.

Hayaishi2Nov 12, 20189 votes

{quoted}

ESports ruined the game which is why I don't watch LoL ESports, nor do I endorse it.

The entire game is balanced and catered to ESports events. You have god tier champions that don't get taken down to size because they make Riot butt loads ofmoney and are favored at these events, and then you have a massive pool of champions that been in the dumpster tier for ages get nerfed for stupid reasons, and then they get zero spotlight because they're not appealing for money making or ESports events.

I absolutely hate how much focus Riot has put into the competitive scene... or rather the neglect they've had for their hardcore fanbase.

I too stopped watching competitive play like 4 seasons ago.

Tbh it does feel like for them as long as pro players are happy with the game they don't have to worry about anything.

I'd love to see them pay their bills without a dedicated player base.

GripaAviaraNov 12, 20182 votes

And still pros ignore Zed. It must eat them inside, the designers, that they failed.

Pandemic PunchNov 12, 201810 votes

Bad timing with the post. It is #1 on Twitch right now by 50k viewers. You probably could have at least waited until it dropped back down to the #2 or #3 spot again. :D

Burnout is inevitable, but the fact that the game has lasted as long as it has and it can still regularly hit #1 is impressive to say the least. You do something long enough, it will always feel the same. Learn to decipher the difference between burnout and a game "bleeding to death". lol

KFCeytronNov 12, 201836 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pandemic Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xPPIqE36,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-11-12T12:32:59.175+0000)

Bad timing with the post. It is #1 on Twitch right now by 50k viewers. You probably could have at least waited until it dropped back down to the #2 or #3 spot again. :D

Burnout is inevitable, but the fact that the game has lasted as long as it has and it can still regularly hit #1 is impressive to say the least. You do something long enough, it will always feel the same. Learn to decipher the difference between burnout and a game "bleeding to death". lol

It's not LoL itself that the OP claimed is "bleeding to death," but rather the losing side in a LoL match after the enemy gains an early lead.

ﬂooNov 12, 201830 votes

And the fact that losing feels worse than winning feels good is just not really making it worth to play.

JamareeNov 12, 20189 votes

{quoted}

And the fact that losing feels worse than winning feels good is just not really making it worth to play.

That is kind...literally everything, that is how the human brain works?

DrCyanideNov 12, 201820 votes

You're misunderstanding him.

If Losing feels like -5 happiness, Winning feels like it's +4 or +3 happiness. You're not making up the difference. At the 50% win rate (which you should expect if you're being matched correctly) you'll still feel less happy overall.

JamareeNov 12, 20187 votes

{quoted}

You're misunderstanding him.

If Losing feels like -5 happiness, Winning feels like it's +4 or +3 happiness. You're not making up the difference. At the 50% win rate (which you should expect if you're being matched correctly) you'll still feel less happy overall.

Yeah, that is once again how the human brain works. It is called Loss Aversion, it is ous brain telling us how it feels twice as bad failing, losing, feeling cheated then their opposites of succeeding, winning, or fairness.

DrCyanideNov 12, 20188 votes

Then why don't we start out with this Loss Aversion in League? Why does it only come after spending a significant amount of time playing it?

Helgak BoneNov 12, 201810 votes

interesting question. I feel the same. Few years back I had alot less negative feelings over a loss. Some matches were so exciting that even when I lost i had a ton of fun. Especially those tight games that ended less because one side fucked up terribly but more because the other team just did something really good. Might just be the burn out after years of LoL, but the game felt alot more satisfying back then. Not just when i was completly new, but even a few years into playing league. (played from early-mid season 1) These days its extremely rare that I lose a game and can honestly say i had a lot of fun playing this game even though i lost in the end. For some reason theres much more frustration to it now.

CandiceuLNov 13, 20184 votes

Thats because they sped up the game to the point there cant BE a come back. They forgot the first rule of game design. It has to be fun to play the game above all. Now they just want it to be fun to watch, but if yuo have more fun watching than playing how long till people stop playing altogether? These complaints are being more and more common eventually a competitor will rise up with the promise of a fun game to PLAY instead of a fun game to watch. That will kill this game.

Starcraft243verNov 14, 20181 votes

That's straight up false.

I've got a LOT of comesback. (I also have a lot of throws :) )

http://recordit.co/PRc1E9M9IE

http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Starcraft243ver

I'm yet to see a "gold difference so massive loss is inevitable".

https://i.imgur.com/fujDdoA.png

they were ahead by 6k5, we ended up ahead by 8k5. We won 15k more gold than they did in 6 minuts, and starting way behind.

Z3SleeperNov 14, 20181 votes

Massive loss is inevitable if the enemy team knows what they're doing*

I'm well aware comebacks are possible. I regularly pull them off via big bait plays and backdoors. However, it never works vs competent players. I'm literally relying on at least 1 player to be bad so that either I can take advantage of that one player to kill them and win anyway or my team can take advantage of it and win the 4v4, get baron and win the game. I'm also relying on none of my teammates being that player.

But given noone is a monkey in the game, it's impossible without a ton of luck.

After some smurfing I can clearly see why people think this way. From my experience in Silver - Plat, most games that are complete blowouts end up being winnable cuz noone knows how to end the game. It's really sad actually, especially in Silver. Master Yi is strong as hell there cuz noone knows how to end. So even if his team is losing, he ends up winning through scaling a heavily stalled game.

It's no coincidence that in most of those matches you're playing Veigar. Since the enemy team isn't ending properly, you're scaling up and decimating them late game.

Starcraft243verNov 15, 20181 votes

Massive loss is inevitable if the enemy team knows what they're doing*

So none of this is our concern since people start having a basic understanding of what they are doing once they reach top diam ~ master.

It's no coincidence that in most of those matches you're playing Veigar. Since the enemy team isn't ending properly, you're scaling up and decimating them late game.

Playing only early games champions is a all in. You have to win early. If people are too stupid to understand that it's not riot's problem. I'm playing rather late game champions and i've got lots of comesback.

Also i've got a lot of comesback from the ennemy team as well, so playing veigar do not shield me from losing the late as well.

You will also notice most people complaining about one sided games are below diam, so for 97% of the league of legend population, there are a lot of possibilities for comebacks, so their whinning is unjustified.

Z3SleeperNov 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You will also notice most people complaining about one sided games are below diam, so for 97% of the league of legend population, there are a lot of possibilities for comebacks, so their whinning is unjustified.

I'll agree with you there.

Starcraft243verNov 14, 20181 votes

Because when you start at league of legend you are ready to accept that you lose because you are inexperienced and the learning curve is really rewarding. Everyday you notice your improvements.

Once you have played a lot and reached your learning curve soft ceiling, you feel entitled to win, and you feel like your loses are undeserved. You'd need to put way much more efforts and hard work to keep improving but you are not willing to do this. This is at this point you start to have the loss aversion and you stop being happy about winning.

Now I dont trust people when they say losing is -5 happiness and winning is +4 happiness. That's a net loss of happiness in playing, either the people feelling this way and keeping playing are addicted or they are stupid, and neither of these problems is riot's problem.

From my pov losing is +1 or +2 happiness and winning is +4 or +5 happiness. Whatever the outcome of the game i'm happy i'm playing. The second i'm not happy to play anymore I'd just make a break. Any other reaction wouldnt make any sens.

DrCyanideNov 14, 20181 votes

you feel entitled to win, and you feel like your loses are undeserved.

I don't think anyone expects to just win, but I do think they expect a point where matches feel close/fair and winning comes down to which side played better throughout or made a crazy good play at some point. When matches feel like a stomp one way or the other, it's not engaging, and people fall away.

The second i'm not happy to play anymore I'd just make a break. Any other reaction wouldnt make any sens.

Well, yeah. Check out my match history and you'll see that's exactly what I'm doing. I haven't played since June, which was me coming back for about a month after taking a break more or less since last November. There was one day I binged a few games in January just because I missed the game, but it didn't feel good to play. I don't have another account and I'm not permabanned, I just have not been able to enjoy the game.

I hope that next season the game will feel better, which is why I try and keep up on changes, but I'm honestly somewhat doubtful.

Josh SandNov 12, 201812 votes

You are missing the point. Also, Loss Aversion relates to someone's propensity for avoiding risks that could potentially result in a loss.

If you want to illustrate a case of what "Loss Aversion" looks like in League, it would be someone having a lot of anxiety around even playing a ranked match in the first place, for fear of losing LP, getting demoted, having a bad win rate, etc. Feeling bad after losing a game doesn't have anything to do with Loss Aversion, because that idiom is in reference to a person before they make that decision, not after.

The bad feels that come from losing now are because every game grinds out the last 10 minutes in the exact same way as the last 50 games you played before that one.

Last season, there were chances to come back, so if you lost then, you at least had a sense that you made viable attempts at turning the game around, and you just came up short in those attempts.

Nowadays, it just feels like you and your entire team are just sitting in a 10 minute long choke hold that everyone knows isn't going to be broken. Just feels like a waste of time that neither side is learning from, because you can't really improve your skills during the last third of the game where you are losing every fight purely because of stats, and the impossibility of establishing any protective vision.

MogelyNov 12, 20181 votes

[deleted]

KFCeytronNov 13, 20183 votes

{quoted}

You again ... the bot only player .....

As funny as it is that you're rank-shaming an account that I only made for the funny name and yet is significantly higher level than your main account, stalking and harassing people on Boards is the kind of behavior that got you a chat restriction in game.

Sleep On StreamNov 12, 20189 votes

now they make sexualized skins to make money of the current players like kda

StupaflyNov 13, 20182 votes

Now? did they just start now?

DarkomantisNov 12, 20188 votes

The biggest issue that no talks is about is the fact that there is essentially only two playable playmodes: Summoner's Rift, the original map, and ARAM, a community created gamemode. Want to do something else? Wait until there is a skin selling event. You can't play anything else and it makes absolutely no sense that there isn't any Custom creation tools or functioning customs to play previous RGM map/modes. Starcraft had a Custom Editor in the early years of it being released and this was back in the 2000s!

It's very apparent that Riot is controlling the playerbase to generate income on a stick-like game. Riot removed URF because players were enjoying the gamemode too much and left when it was pulled as the base two gamemodes were boring afterwards. They killed Dominion, leaving the community to abandon favorite custom activities like Hide n Seek and Deathmode.

QuadraBananasNov 12, 20187 votes

ive stopped hoping for that a week ago ;-;

CeazaruNov 12, 20186 votes

Leagues selling strategy now is making flashy animations and making advertising contracts with other companies like WWE. Let’s just face it Riot is trying to appeal to the casual Fortnite players of today

Baby GhoulNov 12, 20186 votes

I'm tired of how formulaic matches are.

Lately it seems like the entire match revolves around which side gets the 4 man gank bot. The only laning phase that truly matters is mid lane, so that's where junglers spend the most time.

The only variety is the busted top laner champion(s) of the patch that make it past the banning phase.

Other than that you pretty much know how the game will turn out 9 times out of 10 but you're left sitting in a losing situation.

imp1313Nov 12, 20185 votes

riot forces gameplay by changing stats and releasing op stuff , then changing them .

only the currently op stuff is viable so thats all people play .

its a silently enforced meta .

as for modes we can forgeddaoutit and most of the events are pandering cash trolling .

WatchThePowerNov 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

riot forces gameplay by changing stats and releasing op stuff , then changing them .

only the currently op stuff is viable so thats all people play .

its a silently enforced meta .

as for modes we can forgeddaoutit and most of the events are pandering cash trolling .

I’m pretty sure only two champs didn't see competitive play this worlds (Vi + master yi?) I forget, but the meta isn’t oppressive, you can play any champion as long as you understand HOW to play your role.

List one champion that you think isn’t viable and I’ll link you someone who plays it in D2+

SpeeedyNov 13, 20181 votes

Caitlyn

WatchThePowerNov 20, 20182 votes

{quoted}

ok cait is kinda trash in soloq :v

Original SinNov 12, 20185 votes

You've played the game for 6 years. Who wouldn't be tired of doing the same thing over and over. lol.

CaveslothNov 12, 20184 votes

Its one thing to get bored of a game because you've been it for a long time, its quite another when the developer literally goes out of their way to make it boring. And honestly making a game both boring and stressful, they've really accomplished something. Well done Riot.

ŚhunpoNov 13, 20185 votes

I mean....it's not like Riot completely changed everything we know and loved for the sake of change....

3TWarriorNov 13, 20182 votes

item 3641 oh wait, there's no longer a banner of command item...

seriously, "let's make it reduce all damage by 50%"

all they needed to do was exclude tower damage from that or do what they always do and lower the values until it works

Summonah12369Nov 12, 20184 votes

has 20% hp left Brand runs in, tower dives lands a few autos and ignite

AN ALLY HAS BEEN SLAIN

mack9112Nov 12, 20184 votes

I do love league but lately it really has become draining on me.

WinterkillNov 12, 20184 votes

I just feel like there are too many champions and not enough of what we already love about the game, being worked on and modernized. People fell in love with Shaco as a champion years ago and want a VGU. People hate how new champions get prioritized reworks and skins, constantly get feedback about their existence in the game, and how they are extremely frustrating and annoying to play against.

ŚhunpoNov 13, 20184 votes

To anyone who says that it's due to burnout that's simply not true in most cases. I've played Mario Kart, Smash, CoD (the good ones), Halo and WoW for years on end now and I will continue to play them because they're great games.

Why is it that I'm bored of one game but not the others? Surely if it was due to burnout I would have quit the other games....But no, the reason is simple, LoL just isn't fun anymore. That's a general fact. New players hate it once they realise what it's like due to the toxic community and atrocious balancing, casual players hate it because you can't just "have fun" and competitive players hate it due to the toxic community and atrocious balancing.

But you see, Riot is sly, they know that players still have some hope, so you know what they do? They completely trample that hope by making even more awful changes and then presenting us with skins like "Hey, these are good, we know you love the game, buy these please!". Granted, their skins are great right now, however they're still abusive and aggressive in their general marketing of them, their methods are just cruel.

Now, that could all be theory, but you tell me, when was the last time Riot actually listened to the general community and fixed an issue completely in doing so? Because the last I checked the only community they give a damn about is the professional community, and even the pro scene hates their balance changes.

rtbf225618241Nov 12, 20183 votes

Well 10 years and not a single different map than SR to play competitively on.

What did you expect? Look at Blizzard for comparison.

Beacon AcademyNov 12, 20185 votes

Its more like people used to be able to play what they want and be able to carry.

Now its like even if you do well, if your team doesn't... Well its your loss.

Causing champions that are more "OP" to become even more oppressive

Because even if you're capable as a main of whatever champion, they can just get fed off your allies

And now you can't do anything.

One of the reasons I think Faker has been struggling as the game has transitioned from solo carry to lightest anchor matches.

Hayaishi2Nov 12, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beacon Academy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xPPIqE36,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-11-12T19:50:09.579+0000)

Its more like people used to be able to play what they want and be able to carry.

Now its like even if you do well, if your team doesn't... Well its your loss.

Causing champions that are more "OP" to become even more oppressive

Because even if you're capable as a main of whatever champion, they can just get fed off your allies

And now you can't do anything.

One of the reasons I think Faker has been struggling as the game has transitioned from solo carry to lightest anchor matches.

This is very true. In soloqueue it used to be "as long as you are good with your champion you will do fine".

But right now the meta is very oppressive.

Happy Love PileNov 12, 20181 votes

This is a lot of the side effect of the player base overall getting better. They know how to actually stop a 1 man carry

3TWarriorNov 13, 20182 votes

sure it doesn't have something to do with that the average life in a team fight is only a few seconds now?

or that guardian angel is an AD item

or that baron basically makes every minion a super minion?

or that what used to be a rare crowd control is now commonplace (knockup ) ?

how about how klepto gives RNG amounts of gold to you that can exceed 100 if you get a good draw?

Garth GreenhandNov 13, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Well 10 years and not a single different map than SR to play competitively on.

What did you expect? Look at Blizzard for comparison.

Well to me Treeline is way funner than the rift, and every match is different

ŚhunpoNov 13, 20182 votes

Yeeeaahhh and then they removed fucking Dominion effectively forcing the casual players to quit since the custom game community just died the moment the Crystal Scar was taken away from us.

hhaavviikkNov 13, 20183 votes

to me LoL has become like hearthstone, too much powercreep/damage over time, not jsut with buffs but with new champions as well, just look at hearthstone, 2 years ago 8 mana 8/8 summon 7 1/1 minions, now it's like 12 mana fill your board with 60/60 worth of stats, gets cleared? od it again and again and again and again