Boards›Gameplay

Why do we even have champion classes?

Hayaishi2·12/1/2019, 6:27:43 PM·30 votes·13,637 views
Champions by attribute

Isn't the point of champions classes ( "Skirmishers" for example) is to classify champions into a a specific play style making them easier to balance and design as they are supposed to follow a set of design values that fit an intended play style?

Skirmishers (also known as Duelists) aim to shred through any nearby enemy that approaches. Because Skirmishers lack high-end burst damage or reliable ways of closing in on high-priority targets, they are instead armed with situationally powerful defensive tools to survive in the fray, along with extreme sustained damage to cut down even the most durable targets.

Examples of Skirmishers Yasuo Tryndamere Riven Jax MasterYi

Apparently these champions lack "High-End burst damage" and "lack reliable ways of closing in on high-priority targets" Yet everyone who has played this game for a while can tell both of these statements are wrong.

These champions pretty much dish out Burst per second and destroy tanks and squishies equally fast.

But wait, let's look at another one

Battlemages (also known as Warlocks) get into the middle of the fray, seeking to wreak havoc upon the entire enemy team with their overwhelming sustained area damage. Due to their relatively short (but not melee) combat ranges and the need to burn down their opponents over time, Battle Mages have significant defensive capabilities that range from sustaining endlessly to literally defying death for a short period of time.

Battlemages incluide (but not limited to) Vladimir Ryze Swain Morgana Cassiopeia Viktor

"Seeking to wreak havoc upon the entire enemy team with their overwhelming sustained area damage" and also apparently they "Need to burn their opponent over time"

Some champions like Cassiopeia Morgana might follow this line of thought but then you Vladimir who is pretty much capable of bursting down an entire team same as Ryze or Viktor back when he wasn't garbage 100-0ing everything too.

You can find a lot of these unhealthy gameplay patterns in every class too.

My point is; How can you come up with a set of design values and just ignore them whenever you attempt balance to the game. How can you just look at the state of the game and say to yourself "Hey we are doing a good job keeping every class identity alive and keeping the ecosystem that is League Of Legends healthy" Let's just shove damage and CDR into everyone! Let's give everyone a late game fantasy! Let's forget about fixing what can be a frustrating experience for our players"

Everyone has their own theories about why the state of the game is being kept like this i'm on the boat of people who believe the whole point is making the game cool to watch for Esports no matter the cost even if that means making the game for everyone else unfun. But it doesn't matter.

For me your "live design team" or whatever its called needs to be replaced, i honestly do not understand how can anyone who designs and works on a moba can look at this game and feel proud at its balance state. Though i also admit that perhaps is not even their fault it just what they ordered to do.

Feel free to criticize and discuss my thoughts, i like talking about game design with people who are passionate about it.

71 Comments

WoollyWitch12/2/2019, 10:03:38 AM8 votes

[deleted]

Nyarlathοtep12/1/2019, 9:33:13 PM8 votes

The reason why some champs have things that their class shouldnt have is because riot sucks at balancing. Simple as that. All they have to do for example in vlad's case is reduce his burst.

RavenMagus12/2/2019, 7:35:58 AM5 votes

The champion classes aren't very accurate.

You'll see 'Diver' be explained something along the lines of 'mobile fighter that can provide constant damage output', when in reality every Diver champion pretty much just plays like an assassin with a shield and/or stun on top.

Z3SIeeper12/2/2019, 9:12:12 PM4 votes

Common theme here: Burst damage too high.

IainG1012/2/2019, 4:30:57 AM4 votes

My favourite example of this completely braindead and just plain wrong classing system is that Mundo, the tankiest character is the game, is not a tank...

I get that Riot want to be different, but the fact that both their classing system goes against EVERY other game AND the fact that they don't even obey their own class guidelines show that in this case they are just talking out of their asses....

Tokishi712/2/2019, 10:50:00 AM4 votes

I'm not sure what Riot is up to these days. The PBE is nothing more than a means to make sure the game doesn't crash after patch rather than wow, this is broken. Game just sort of went downhill some day and it lost what it used to be. It's still fun at times, but when it's not, extremely noticeable now :/

DeathBurst12/2/2019, 1:38:41 PM2 votes

The point of the class system was only to serve as a point of reference, as a shared vocabulary, to discuss champions and balance. It was never supposed to be prescriptive, only descriptive. They are not "design values", they are language shortcuts.

I mean, feel free to criticize the balance of the game itself. Feel free to claim that Yasuo or Yi have too much burst. But don't point at the class system and say "they are class X, they should have Y damage", because that's not the goal of this tool, like, at all.

(I'd argue that the class system fails EVEN at its intended goal, because no one really uses "Catcher" or whatever, and people keep talking about "Bruisers", which is not in the class system at all, and was never actually defined, but eh, that's a different complaint...)

Sire Hippington12/2/2019, 12:18:44 PM2 votes

making them easier to balance and design

nope, the only purpose of the classification is to help new players so they have a rough idea what those champs are supposed to do.

As for you complaints about skirmishers and battlemages, that's all just damagecreep. If you compare jax to talon or diana, he will never be able to do as much damage in a single rotation as they do, but with how high damage overall is, he will delete a squishy just aswell while the others would simply overkill. Same with battlemages, their kit certainly is more focused on sustained combat patterns(victor an edge case, he's just as much controll mage as he is battlemage) but the overall high damage still allows them to kill quickly, just with less down time then others...

If overall damage is lower, the desticnt patterns for those champs would be more relevant instead of everything bluring into burst.