It's amazing how different this game used to be in S3

Hayaishi2·Dec 1, 2018·133 votes·22,927 views

Look at the difference in damage. Nobody is blowing up, a squishy immobile marksman like Varus isn't immediately dying because of someone felt like flashing on top of him, there's actually room for breathing.

Edit: Look at how there is no free damage, nobody is doing a billion damage because they proc'd electrocute or dark harvest. You either do damage or you don't.

Even Varus who is fed as fuck isn't 3 shotting people with AAs or melting the enemy tank in 2 seconds.

208 Comments

AstroFerrari Dec 1, 201889 votes

If that was today day the Lee Sin's Q and ult would've melted 70-80% of his HP lmfao.

Hayaishi2Dec 1, 201827 votes

{quoted}

If that was today day the Lee Sin's Q and ult would've melted 70-80% of his HP lmfao.

lmao today Malphite wouldn't even need to hit ult there to kill him.

OtterlyLostDec 1, 201870 votes

He could kite. :c It must be nice to be able to kite...

Hayaishi2Dec 1, 201856 votes

{quoted}

He could kite. :c It must be nice to be able to kite...

Indeed. This is video is the perfect example of what was good league quality, how does an immobile marksman even survive nowdays without needing Janna to shield him for 80% of his HP?

Positioning means nothing in today's game.

Bob the ToastrDec 1, 201819 votes

Positioning and vision control are still important, although for an ADC it may only be the difference between "get bursted immediately" and "maybe kill one person and then get bursted by the 6 assassins with dark harvest and ignite on the enemy team"

3TWarriorDec 2, 20185 votes

whoa whoa, there's one too many there, it's just five XD

Votable JesterDec 2, 201816 votes

Shaco Shaco

ArtumisPrimeDec 2, 201814 votes

I would go the opposite direction and say that positioning is everything now. If you step out of position for even a fraction of a second you're dead. I much preferred the slower game style. Frequent trades over multiple waves of minions is what was required to win your lane back then. It would be so nice if we could go back to such a world.

TheLegendaddyDec 2, 20187 votes

i would go even more opposite and say that positioning doesn't matter again and you have to rely completely on team to collapse instantaneously to peel and shield/save you to have any chance of survival

ArtumisPrimeDec 2, 20182 votes

Sure, but in order to require the assistance of your team, you were out of position in the first place. :p

Seriously though, I definitely see where you're coming from. Rengar, Kassadin, Lee sin jump out of fog of war...you're screwed.

3TWarriorDec 3, 20182 votes

well...

Nocturne item 3147 item 3095

he can do quite a bit

if this is level 11, he has 89 base AD + 55 duskblade + 60 stormrazor + up to 20 from shards + (variable by runes) and then i'm not sure if he can cast his Q before auto attacking but if he can, that's 60 more AD

284+ total AD , 224 before Q

ult deals 275 + 120% bonus AD ; if we factor in that he might not get to Q after, he deals 414 from his ult, 100 from duskblade , first auto attack then deals 1.4 * 224 = 313.6 + 20% AD from passive = 44.8 , Q then deals 245 + 75% bonus AD = 349.25 and then adds 60 AD to everything after , E deals at max 170 (don't know build order) if not, 80

it is then a variable for what occurs by what the user chose for their build and if the opponent gets away or not and if the nocturne has ignite or not

275 + 166(from AD) + 100 from duskblade + 358.4 from first auto attack + 349.25 Q + 170 E, we get 1248 physical damage with 21 lethality minimum, which at level 11 reduces their armor by 17.7 , 170 magic damage max; then variables

if nothing procs, lets take lucian as the example since he's the current meta

lucian at level 11 will have 54.3 armor - 17.7 = 36.6 , magic resist 34.4

100/136.6 = 73% damage taken from physical ; 74% magic damage taken

with these numbers, with no external influence at all, nocturne deals 911 physical 125 magic damage from lucian's 1325.7 hp

with runes and variables taken into account, these numbers can get much higher, within a time span of about 0.7 seconds

#ignite alone gives it enough to be a kill at 330 true damage

lucian can adjust this a bit by opting for armor shards, but the result is almost the same

100/146.6 = 68% taken 848 physical , 125 magic , incidentally, if the person's runes are terrible, this gives him enough to survive ignite, but the odds of making a non-offensive setup lately in runes is fairly low. The odds of not getting a second auto attack is also low, and nocturne can also apply jungle damage buffs to his auto attacks

#this is also taking into account the worst possible situation, so who knows. I don't even know if it's possible to have those items in nocturne's build at 11, the tally being 5700 gold

ArtumisPrimeDec 4, 20181 votes

Your 0.7 second window for that damage seems generous, honestly. It's probably more like 0.2.

As for the gold, he'd need to have a few kills and some lane tax to make it happen by level 11.

If level 11 happens at around 15 minutes, that's 1703.4 (20.4g every 10 seconds after 1:05) ambient gold. (Side note: TBH, I'm not exactly sure when ambient gold starts generating. I'm assuming first minion spawn here.)

Now, the following numbers aren't technically possible...but just for fun:

If you kill non-buff camps, starting at 1:45, on spawn, every 2:30 you can get 6 clears in by 15 minutes. This is 6 x 458 or 2748g (more realistically it'll be 5 clears for 2290)

You can also get 4 buff clears, starting at 1:30, every 5 minutes, for 200g each...or 800g.

800 + 2748 + 1703.4 = 5251.4g at 15 minutes, roughly level 11.

Probably closer to 4500-4750, realistically.

3TWarriorDec 4, 20182 votes

let's add in the runes for fun too XD

dark harves for 40 - 80 (by level) + 5 per proc + 25% AD /////////// or Hail of Blades for 75 - 125% attack speed (which can increases the amount of attacks in your combo by about 2, but would be between 1 and 2 depending upon circumstances or more if given time, so 89 - 178 physical
sudden impact for 7 more lethality
ghost poro for 3 - 12 AD (based on level) or eyeball collection: 0.6 - 12 AD based on ward takedowns and champion takedowns +6 if maxed

and then choices between :

Absolute focus for about 13 more AD and either Scorch for 10 - 30 magic damage or gathering storm for increasing AD every 10 minutes starting at 4.8 at 10 minutes and 10 more for every 10 minutes

coup de grace , which offers 7% increased damage to targets below 40% health

Conquerer is also an option, but seems less reliable

ArtumisPrimeDec 4, 20182 votes

Conqueror's wind-up time probably makes it less viable than other options...just speculating here, I don't play Nocturne.

So, if you had Challenging Smite (120 true damage over 3s when you hit them, at level 11) and DH (63.53 + 5/stack and 0.25 bonus AD) you could reasonably add more than an extra 200 damage to your above calculations.

Damage in this game is beyond absurd. It's almost comical.

TrontieDec 1, 201864 votes

The best part is that Yasuo didn’t exist yet

Nanolathe11Dec 2, 201819 votes

{quoted}

The best part is that didn’t exist yet

lemme block 3 ults with my 15 sec cd windwall

Hot Belly DancerDec 1, 201834 votes

Compare the damage to now, that lee sin combo would surely get 90% of his Hp.
No instakill.
Look at the length of team fights
You could outplay your opponent
Tanks could tank and weren't 'assassins' [zombie-nunu-tears]

Nea104Dec 1, 201817 votes

And still there are [REMOVED BY MODERATION - ULANOPO] people that keep affirming the exact opposite, not caring about reality :/

Hot Belly DancerDec 2, 20182 votes

yup lmao

Death by GlamourDec 1, 201833 votes

that has to be the first time in a long time Ive seen a lee sin do that with ult rather than using it to "execute" someone

ThefrostyvikingDec 1, 201829 votes

You mean your lee sin's arent trying to do those sick insec plays only to constantly kill their kicking targets on accident?

Many of mine do, poor guys.

Death by GlamourDec 1, 201813 votes

on accident?

doesn't his combo at 6 almost guarantee a kill nowadays [sg-janna]

ThefrostyvikingDec 1, 20187 votes

It does, and it means he cant do his sweet bowling kick anymore.

Poor lee.

Flawless FetusDec 1, 201827 votes

"But everyone who thinks the game used to be about strategy and not about burst is wrong. It's all just nostalgia. Damage creep isn't real". Monkeys.

TheDeviceDec 2, 20186 votes

"Yeah! Lets go back to the era when a Varus can eat three ults and auto attack everyone to death while being a mile away from the rest of his team!" - ADC Main

Hayaishi2Dec 2, 201817 votes

{quoted}

"Yeah! Lets go back to the era when a Varus can eat three ults and auto attack everyone to death while being a mile away from the rest of his team!" - ADC Main

I mean if that's all you take from it then you are very shortsighted.

No one who attacked him built damage. If you don't build damage you shouldn't be allowed to kill stuff.

Even then what chawyy did there wasnt the norm. He's just really good mechanically.

MasterDCloneDec 2, 20182 votes

but everyone is building full damage today so are you saying that the damage is justified, and tanking three ults while just standing there as if you're a statue with no support and beating them down easily is not a meta that I want to play

Flawless FetusDec 2, 20187 votes

Everyone is building full damage today because, unless you're on a dedicated tank, defense is useless.

Zen FuryDec 2, 20189 votes

[{quoted}](name=ßlended Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X53OfTWr,comment-id=00100000000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-02T07:14:49.550+0000)

Everyone is building full damage today because, unless you're on a dedicated tank, defense is useless.

Even on dedicated tanks building defense is questionable unless you're going for health. With the amount of armor pen, magic pen, true damage, DH and all other ancillary damage sources building resistances is pretty much pointless. The only thing that assures you don't die in a fraction of a second is having a huge health pool.

FilDaFunkDec 1, 201825 votes

WE should post lots of videos from earlier seasons.

Better JunglerDec 1, 201822 votes

wow its crazy how much the community has improved.. this pro game looks like a silver game lmao.. now everyone and their mother can kite back and weave autos as a marksmen. Used to be unheard of in pro league I guess haha

ThefrostyvikingDec 1, 201811 votes

I´d agree that skill has risen, a lot overall.....but i think the main point was still the speed or lack of thereof at which people died x)

saltranDec 1, 20185 votes

Just like an Insec was something crazy for pro players back un the day and now if you dont know how to do an Insec as a silver Lee player you will be called noob and for a good reason.

Better JunglerDec 1, 20186 votes

Eh, insecs you can get away without knowing in silver :P Ward hops are the embarrassing thing to miss lol.

nothing is worse than chasing someone, then putting down a ward, then standing there for a solid second before hitting w and jumping to it

[sg-miss-fortune]

CM0NEYDec 2, 201817 votes

I think this just convinced me to finally quit this game. I knew I haven't been enjoying this game for a long time, and watching this made me remember how fun the game used to be to play. It's also more fun to watch because I can actually understand what is going on in teamfights. Sadly I don't see how league could ever get back to a state like this.

NetorareDec 1, 201814 votes

Back when the game was actually really good and required some skill.

Hot Belly DancerDec 1, 201811 votes

Compare the damage to now, that lee sin combo would surely get 90% of his Hp.
No instakill.
Look at the length of team fights
You could outplay your opponent
Tanks could tank and weren't 'assassins' [zombie-nunu-tears]

CronofugeDec 2, 201810 votes

You all are longing for something that isn't as good as it sounds. "you have time to outplay." You have plenty of time to outplay now, stop cherry picking. What I see is an adc being rewarded for poor positioning because he is fed. He just stood like a turret and drain tanked the enemy team to death. This was exactly why bloodthrister was nerfed in patch 4.10.

I miss the old days too, and damage is too high atm, but that clip is disgusting and should not be praised for "high outplayability." The only good thing I saw was Chawy flashing the malph ult.

Hayaishi2Dec 2, 20188 votes

{quoted}

You all are longing for something that isn't as good as it sounds. "you have time to outplay." You have plenty of time to outplay now, stop cherry picking. What I see is an adc being rewarded for poor positioning because he is fed. He just stood like a turret and drain tanked the enemy team to death. This was exactly why bloodthrister was nerfed in patch 4.10.

I miss the old days too, and damage is too high atm, but that clip is disgusting and should not be praised for "high outplayability." The only good thing I saw was Chawy flashing the malph ult.

In the last engage if would've been pretty easy to mess up with Malphite destroying your AS making you cancel AAs. Chawy played that pretty well and he wasn't even building full damage, he had a defensive item against 3 champions with no damage. Also take in mind a single ignite would've sealed the deal there.

This play was not really the norm, you couldn't pull that off every day back in S3 either, and you could argue the game was garbage back then but atleast stuff made sense back in the day. Nowdays i don't even know how you are meant to play most of the champions when the meta outclasses everything harder than ever.

Btw ofc he didn't kite. How does an immobile ADC kite Malphite? But malphite is an initiator not a carry killer, or atleast that's how it used to be back how league had balance and design values.

ArtumisPrimeDec 2, 20188 votes

Plenty of time to outplay now? Wat.

TheLegendaddyDec 2, 201810 votes

Bring back Morello!

UlyssesISRDec 2, 20186 votes

This reminds me of old World of Warcraft PvP. Back when classes were NOT melting others with just a few attacks. No wonder people say they miss old LoL, this looks like godsend compared to this snowball meta nonsense we see.

HammermancerDec 2, 20185 votes

Riot: Ever since we took U.R.F. mode down people started quitting

Riot: Let's make this game way more like U.R.F.

BlåbæretDec 2, 20184 votes

Lmao. If that was S8, he'd get oneshot 10 times over by that Lee alone.

Game's garbage no tactic, no though, just braindead tunnelvision damage.

KelgDec 2, 20184 votes

tfw varus would be dead from the Lee ult if this was today

we league of duty now bois

mack9112Dec 2, 20182 votes

Idk man all I remember is leblanc silencing me and killing me in 2 secs with deathfire grasp and me not being able to do anything.

ArtumisPrimeDec 2, 20187 votes

These types of champions existed, and could instakill when ahead, definitely. Especially against the support. That was kind of the entirety of season 3. Supports dying to mid lane assassins.

But they had to actually work to get to that point. If you were behind you were a minion. If you were ahead, you were a god. Today none of that shit matters. You can be 0/9 and still explode people with 1 item.

mack9112Dec 2, 20181 votes

Idk man zed leblanc definitely could kill me pretty quick back then too and then there was kass who could silence an entire team .

Supports back then too were just walking auras that could place wards and jungle were basically 3 champs Lee jarv and vi

Overall the game state has definitely improved to a point that every role feels impactful in the game.

I rlly don't agree with the 0 9 statement if you are behind that bad you aren't killing any one outside of an adc who is terribly behind themself and caught out.

ArtumisPrimeDec 2, 20184 votes

Zed and LB needed to hit their full combo, be ahead in items and levels, AND they still couldn't do it from full HP..maybe 50-75%+. None of this shit with a 1 item Zed pressing R, AA, Ignite, maybe an E, and you die like you'll find today.

Kass' silence was on his Q, which is single target. IDK where you're getting that he could silence an entire team.

I definitely agree that supports were in a pretty bad spot...but that's kind of the nature of support in this genre as a whole.

In the vein of everyone being impactful, I can't really disagree. Whether the game has improved in other aspects is entirely debatable.

Lastly, the 0/9 statement may be a touch exaggerated, unless we're talking about an assassin. 0/9 Zed with a Duskblade? All he needs to do is get the jump on a squishy and they're dead.