Suggestion from a laner: Don't nerf jungle exp gain, instead work on tooth and nail

Zero Skill Tank··4 votes·2,671 views

Also I believe scuttle patch could be reverted. Here is the reasoning:

Jungle advatange doesn't come from exp gain, nor even from early ganks.

Jungle advantage comes from unavoidable differences in skill levels of players in every match. If a good jungler observers a skill difference in one of lanes, they can do a lot of things to equalize it, or extend it if it's in their favour.

Meanwhile, if a good laner observes skill difference in the jungle, they can do very little with it. Not like nothing, but every play around the map comes at a much greater cost and effort to the laner. Abusing bad enemy jungler or enabling a strong one is not impossible, but it does yield much worse results - to over-simplify things, a jungler can camp a laner, but a a laner can't camp the jungler.

Unpopular opinion: in infamous scuttle patch Riot correctly recognized this problem and tried to give laners a way to slow down enemy junglers by contesting scuttles. The execution, however was very very poor. By concentrating the exp in one place, it created a - there is no better word, I'm sorry - clusterfuck meta where everyone jumped in one place to contest it. Which is why it had to be partially reverted, to the point where the changes no longer serve their purpose.

The solution, in my opinion, is very simple - nerf or remove tooth and nail (and balance camps accordingly). This would give laners ability to slow down a good jungler - or abuse a bad one - the way junglers can do to them. Right now punishing junglers by stealing camps like in the old days is not a viable strategy until well into midgame, because laners suffer greater damage while fighting camps and also get less reward.

Scuttle patch could be mostly reverted after that.

This won't have the same problem as scuttle patch, because exp distributed around map will prevent excessive fights over it. It would, however, give laners a way to deal with or use skill difference in the jungle like junglers can deal with or use skill difference in lanes.

Thanks for attention

7 Comments

wildfox9T1 votes

don't get me wrong,i like your idea (it would also open the jungle for more champions),but how does this address this problem?

a jungler can camp a laner, but a a laner can't camp the jungler.

a jungle camp is far less rewarding than a kill,especially in a lane where he and his laner will get additional gold from minions and tower platings

if anything it's an incentive for ganking more,"you stole my camp so now i gank you" or i nany case because with no jungle camps they don't have anything else to do

i think the problem is that with ganks you can make a bad laner win a lane or a good one snowball harder,as i already said on top of the 300 + 150 g you get at least 1 or 2 minion waves and 1/2 tower plating,which is a lot of gold,in most cases you can even leave the lane because it's already won if the laner did get the kill

i think the best thing would be changing the gold share system on kills,right now a solo kills is worth 300 g while a duo kill 300 + 150 g,so 150 gold just appeared out of nowhere what if instead a kill is always worth the same global gold (with no bounty 300g) but the gold is equally split among all the people that got the takedown? this would be 150 + 150 g for a gank,which would make ganks less snowbally and so there is less incentive for mindlessy ganking over choosing wisely your targets so you can take objectives

side note,this would even make the bot lane snowball more similar to the other lanes (which is one of the things that makes hard to balance supports and ADCs),for killing their laners they get from 600 g (the support ofc :D) + 300 g to 300 gold each (so exactly like a solo laner)

Also I believe scuttle patch could be reverted

as you said the intention was good but how it was applies not at all

i think they should either revert it or add more objectives like that (each with different effects)

only 2 of them (reduced to 1 since usually junglers start both bot) just makes the best lvl 2 jungler more snowbally,but with more of them you can still go for another if you lose one,junglers will have to contest them more (so choose if ganking or taking them) instead of doing always scuttle > gank since the enemy jungler might clear the others in this time,leaving him behind if he fail his gank

Anime Fizz1 votes

Here we go again :

"to fix the jungle being too dominant, you should buff it, that will do it"

Jungle mains LOL

wildfox9T1 votes

buff?

jungle items are insanely strong for their price,how removing/nerfing them is a buff?

he asked for more gold/XP for the ones that clear a jungle camp without a jungle item increasing the default rewards without buffing the jungle gold/XP (reducing/removing the bonus rewards given by item 1041 and item 1039 )

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

I think you understood me wrong, I wanted to equalize - at least partially - effort and reward that laners and junglers have to put to clear a camp. So possibly make camps easier to kill, but also removing/nerfing tooth and nail. That way laners could effectively steal camps, so junglers would have to fight for their food like everyone else.

I can't see how that's a buff.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

I think you understood me wrong, I wanted to equalize - at least partially - effort and reward that laners and junglers have to put to clear a camp. So possibly make camps easier to kill, but also removing/nerfing tooth and nail. That way laners could effectively steal camps, so junglers would have to fight for their food like everyone else.

I can't see how that's a buff.

what laner is going to invade the enemy jungle to steal something when they can get collapsed by multiple people? unless they get so far ahead that it won't even matter? all you have accomplished is make it easier for junglers to achieve whatever they want

PlsBuffMyMain1 votes

Junglers can be punished by good laners, just invade and kill them.

Zero Skill Tank1 votes

Right, and in the meantime get your lane pushed in and lose 6 minions + 2 plates, so in the end you donated more gold to enemy then the kill was worth it.

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