Vayne play rate is already 32.7% and her W has 0 counterplay

DropFill·Jul 4, 2015·8 votes·1,469 views

You know what to do riot. I was unable to solo one vayne as fizz even though she wasn't fed.

32 Comments

HeartOfTheCardsJul 4, 20152 votes

If you landed your ult she wouldve died.

LuggJul 4, 20154 votes

It's pretty hard to hit a Fizz ult on someone who is tumbling and invisible.

khorneyJul 4, 20151 votes

Then bait her tumble not hard to do the diff is fizz needs his ult to land vayne doesn't

MohawkBirdJul 5, 20151 votes

Her tumble has like a 1 second cooldown.

IcyPepperJul 5, 20151 votes

2 seconds, up to 1.2 seconds if she has 40% cdr (which I think she can get with blue buff, item 3071 and a defensive item).

1 second would be hilariously OP, 2 is just manageable enough.

IcyPepperJul 5, 20151 votes

item 3362 item 3364 really helps against (competent) Vayne ults.

Not really going to enter the discussion of Vayne's W, just wanted to throw out those items (that don't take up an item slot) in case people don't really think about it. 250 gold, but you could earn 300 gold from killing Vayne... it's a gamble!

LuggJul 5, 20151 votes

Everyone says get those items, but by the time you drop them, you're dead.

DropFillJul 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If you landed your ult she wouldve died.

So easy to do this on someone who gains tons of ms while going invisible.

EffectFXJul 5, 20152 votes

Ever heard of upgraded red trinket at level 9?

HeartOfTheCardsJul 5, 20152 votes

If you cant land fizz ults but expect to win 1v1s with such a highly mobile champ like vayne...i really dont know what to say.

Fizz needs his ult on mobile champs like Vayne. And I find it hard to sympathize with you about Vayne's W having NO counterplay. If we are talking about moves that ACTUALLY HAVE NO COUNTER PLAY...why arent we talking about trickster? Sure it costs a fair bit of mana. But its on a 4-6 sec CD (Or something of that nature right?)and does massive burst. And makes you immune to everything? What can a person do to fizz when he tricksters? Just wait until he gets down. Its a free out bro.

So please...don't be like "Vayne is broken. I can't 1v1 her as Fizz. Nerf her." When Fizz is 10 times more "lacking in counter play."

Vayne gets blown up hard by hard cc and assassins like Fizz. Shes not the least bit scary unless she has a competent support holding her hand. Fizz on the other hand does boat loads of damage with one item. More mobility then Riven. And has the wonderfully no counterplay Trickster in his arsenal.

Can't tell you how many times Fizz has engaged > Blown someone up > Trickstered > Auto > Q > Hourglass > Trickster. Its not much fun to fight a fizz. and i swear nothing feels safer than hitting E on Fizz.

TLDR; hitting your ult on vayne's is less of a "Oh man. Vayne is Op" problem and more of a "Oh man maybe I'm just not as good as I can be on Fizz problem." Im not trying to sound like an asshole...but if you can't land ultimates on the ADCs...maybe playing Fizz isn't for you?

RogueWillJul 5, 20151 votes

I have seen vaynes 5v1 and win with her W since it will kill anyone but tanks on a single proc.

HeartOfTheCardsJul 5, 20151 votes

Yah Fed vaynes against incredibly unorganized enemies. You CAN stop vayne from snowballing. shes probably one of the easier adcs to keep in control. No escape. Relies on poor invisability (cant even go invis if hit with at least a snare). Shes easy to gank and pretty simple to stop in lane. Just because she can 1v5 when shes fed doesn't mean stupidly broken. Yah her late game is amazing. But when you have a vayne on the other team its YOUR JOB TO KEEP HER FROM GETTING TO LATE GAME. Its like don't get mad because the Nasus has 800 stacks at 25 mins in. Thats your fault that you let him get that far. Its the same principle of with vayne except shes EASIER to stop.

Buy upgraded sweeper. Buy a pink. Have lulu E her. Ignite her. Malph ult her. Morg ult her (litterally all morg has to do it BS herself). All i see are people always crying "Rito why does every champ have a gapcloser/insane stun/Execute?" but like...when vayne starts being talked about EVERYONE AND THEIR MOM STARTS SCRATCHING THEIR HEADS exclaiming "Vayne op. Nothing can stop her. I dont know what the fuck you are talking about....Yosemite?"

Ghost BrideJul 4, 20152 votes

I sincerely hope this is satire.

Baby GhoulJul 5, 20152 votes

I have a hard time feeling sorry for a Fizz complaining about no counter play.

However people on your team need to get item 3110 for the aura and armor. You will need more than one teammate with this item if she's fed, but it works in most builds in this meta anyways. You also want to build armor, not HP against her. The support you pick against her can make all the difference as well. If they provide threatening CC that can target back line carries like Vayne, then she's going to have a difficult lane.

She's a tank slayer, but when she's locked down she is too easy to kill. Take your CC heavy teammate and hunt her down or bait her out. She needs to be rather close to you to do damage, thus inside your Frozen Heart aura, so it shouldn't be too difficult.

Cloud273Jul 4, 20151 votes

She also has one of the shortest auto attack ranges in the game. You have to poke her down before she gets close to you and when her ult is down.

RenailleJul 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

She also has one of the shortest auto attack ranges in the game.

No, she has an auto attack range longer than the majority of champions.

NemeBroJul 4, 20153 votes

{quoted}

She also has one of the shortest auto attack ranges in the game.

Vayne is ranged. By definition she does not have one of the shortest auto attack ranges in the game. She can't.

I'll assume you meant "compared to other ADCs", but even that is bull. 550 is basically standard for ADCs. Ashe and Cait are the only ones who have more than that right out of the box, and Kog, Jinx, and Tristana, the three highest ranged ADCs (with the first two only when using a specific ability) are outliers.

Lucian has short range for an ADC. Vayne? Vayne is mediocre in that regard.

Z StatisticJul 5, 20151 votes

Her Q is repositioning. Her W is passive. Her E has identical range to her basic attacks. Her R is a buff. She may have average AA range, but her effective range is probably the lowest out of any ranged champion. Lucian may not be able to use his autos on you from 800 range, but he can most certainly Q or E or R you. Vayne has to be within 550 range to deal any damage whatsoever.

Also, the fact that you didn't mention Varus's 575 range just provides more evidence that people have forgotten that he exists ;-;

NemeBroJul 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Her Q is repositioning. Her W is passive. Her E has identical range to her basic attacks. Her R is a buff. She may have average AA range, but her effective range is probably the lowest out of any ranged champion. Lucian may not be able to use his autos on you from 800 range, but he can most certainly Q or E or R you. Vayne has to be within 550 range to deal any damage whatsoever.

Also, the fact that you didn't mention Varus's 575 range just provides more evidence that people have forgotten that he exists ;-;

That's cool and all, but my post and the one I responded to were only talking about her AA range.

I forgot Varus has 575 range to be honest, since his range seems so short when your main poking tool has a range of 1,625, but to get the most out of Varus' damage (with his W) you have to be much fucking closer than that for some reason.

DropFillJul 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She also has one of the shortest auto attack ranges in the game. You have to poke her down before she gets close to you and when her ult is down.

So easy to poke someone who gains 90ms with her ult passive

Meep ManJul 4, 20151 votes

Counter Play to W:

item 3143 item 3110 Malphite Nunu Nasus Teemo Quinn summoner 3

I will let you figure how on your own.

DropFillJul 4, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xE0kZEPr,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-07-04T22:48:32.672+0000)

Counter Play to W:

I will let you figure how on your own.

I see if you have both items, she still attacks at a very high attk speed. Malphite is only good against ad tops Nunu is the only viable choice, but still is a jungler, so against her in lane nothing you can do Nasus is easy to shutdown Teemo is bad. So is quinn, she is also extremely bugged Exhaust counters every single adc

HeartOfTheCardsJul 5, 20151 votes

I mean you know what counters vayne? Any cc heavy support. Having a nami or an alistar or even a lulu in lane could easily punish vayne. Hell why not just got Nautilas Support. If we are talking about adcs...Graves paired up with any all in support. Sivir can block Condemn with a well timed spellshield. Caitlyn beats Vayne outright early game.

Vayne is not as good as you are making her out to be. Shes good. But shes easily countered.

Her W is powerful yes. But it you can very easily burst her if you are playing fizz. The fact that she has to get 3 shots off on you is already pretty ridic since she has to commit to getting the 3rd shot for the chunkage. So you can use that willingness to commit as a way to get her. Now if you are talking in a 1v1 scenario...then we all KNOW JUST HOW STRONG vayne is in 1v1s. The woman is a born duelist. But like i said earlier. If you land a stun or a knock up or any cc on her shes doneskis.

The trick to beating Vayne in lane is to trade with her. If shes one of those vaynes who like to AA champs in lane then by golly contest her damage every single time.

Sir YamazukiJul 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xE0kZEPr,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-07-04T22:48:32.672+0000)

Counter Play to W:

I will let you figure how on your own.

QSS

EffectFXJul 5, 20151 votes

Doesn't work against randuins/frozen heart and can only be used once in a fight.

Sir YamazukiJul 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't work against randuins/frozen heart and can only be used once in a fight.

Why would you need it more than once against any champion? Vayne will kill any one of them before their abilities are back up.

HeartOfTheCardsJul 5, 20151 votes

I honestly doubt a Vayne would be able to beat nasus in a 1v1 unless the nasus just COMPLETELY failed his stacks. And even tho she can QSS the Teemo blind assuming he built right he should have done shit tons of dmg with his Blinding dart and he should have a pretty nice mine field to run back into. Also...why would you attempt to 1v1 a vayne with a QSS unless you are 100% sure you can kill her even if she pops it? In fact....if Vayne is alone in the lane why not organize a gank?

Sir YamazukiJul 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I honestly doubt a Vayne would be able to beat nasus in a 1v1 unless the nasus just COMPLETELY failed his stacks. And even tho she can QSS the Teemo blind assuming he built right he should have done shit tons of dmg with his Blinding dart and he should have a pretty nice mine field to run back into. Also...why would you attempt to 1v1 a vayne with a QSS unless you are 100% sure you can kill her even if she pops it? In fact....if Vayne is alone in the lane why not organize a gank?

Please explain how a Nasus, in a 1v1, is going to reach Vayne, or live long enough to get wither back after she cleanses the first? Not only is she ranged, but she can push him away, and Nasus has no dashes, no blinks, no move speed steroids to even get in range of her. You also can't run from Vayne, did you forget passive and R? Teemo will die before he gets anywhere. I also wasn't referring to 1v1s, if you're picking Nasus or Teemo to team fight a Vayne then you already lost the game.

EffectFXJul 5, 20151 votes

At 40% CDR you can easily live long enough against a vayne for it to come off of cooldown as a Nasus, and 40% CDR is not hard or impossible to achieve on Nasus. Seriously, wither her, she pops QSS, walk away for a couple seconds, wither her again.

Vayne is less concerned about armor and health because of her W yes, but it still works against the rest of her kits which is going to be the majority of her damage.

Vayne's stealth wins her more fights then her ability to deal maximum percentage true damage, which is easily countered at level 9

HeartOfTheCardsJul 5, 20151 votes

Well if Nasus and Vayne actually end up fighting each other that would probably mean its towards the mid game. SO UNLESS THE NASUS BLOWS TO HIGH HEAVEN. He should have 2-3 lvls and an item up on her. Not to mention he should have a respectable amount of stacks. Nasus is simply too big at this point and Vayne shouldnt even be TRYING to 1v1 him anyway. She should be staying as far away from Nasus as humanly possible. Only stepping into the same lane as him with another for backup. Considering she spent money on a rather early QSS that means she probably doesnt have her second core item built. So she has Bork and boots along with a QSS or something along those lines. Meanwhile at the same time the Nasus IF HE PLAYED HIS LANE RIGHT would have like 300+ Stacks. Frozen heart. Spirit Visage or sutin. A single bork against a Tanky nasus with like 30%+ CDR?

The CD on wither is also shorter than you realize. So if he does a max range wither and she INSTANTLY uses QSS he can simply disengage and wait for it to come back up. So yah in a 1v1 I'd say the Nasus who has Solo Exp and good farm will beat the Vayne.

I don't know about you but I barely see ANY TEEMOS who arent within 5 steps of a shroom field. So if the Teemo in question doesn't have an escape plan set up hes playing teemo wrong. It doesn't matter how fast Vayne can go if she hits even two shrooms her MS will be hampered.

EffectFXJul 5, 20151 votes

"0 counterplay" still as false as the first time it was brought up.