Zed hasn't been nerfed YET despite QSS changes?

DropFill··184 votes·8,411 views

RIOT?

289 Comments

Mal the Red72 votes

Riot's Balance Team is a bunch of Zed Mains

What do you expect?

DropFill42 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mal the Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y8K5IRr6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-16T04:15:13.365+0000)

Riot's Balance Team is a bunch of Zed Mains

What do you expect?

They seem to like Zed a lot. His last nerf was a joke

Ariel the Cruel23 votes

VayneKayle 3 AD

im tilt11 votes

It hasn't even been a full patch, you can expect them to nerf zed preemptively with the changes to qss, and with the community being so ignorant, his ban rate is so high is win rate isnt even that good

SIayton28 votes

[{quoted}](name=C9 Nasif,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y8K5IRr6,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-05-16T11:17:26.148+0000)

It hasn't even been a full patch, you can expect them to nerf zed preemptively with the changes to qss, and with the community being so ignorant, his ban rate is so high is win rate isnt even that good

Because Riot only preemptively nerfs champions like Amumu when a new item or change is coming out that will obviously help them and they don't want to see a spike in win rate.

Zed tho? Let's wait and see guys. Weakening the items that counter him definitely won't make him incredibly hard to deal with!

yay nibbers6 votes

Zed and other similar champs are by nature more fragile balance-wise than champs like Amumu.

You know what's funny though? Since the change, his winrate didn't change significantly and he's actually seeing less play. Sources: [1] [2] But no lets ignore that and continue complaining about a champion that's been performing average at best for some time now.

SIayton7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y8K5IRr6,comment-id=0000000100000002,timestamp=2016-05-16T20:05:38.710+0000)

Zed and other similar champs are by nature more fragile balance-wise than champs like Amumu.

You know what's funny though? Since the change, his winrate didn't change significantly and he's actually seeing less play. Sources: [1] [2] But no lets ignore that and continue complaining about a champion that's been performing average at best for some time now.

I don't know if you're accounting for ban rate as well in his play rate but maybe his decrease in play rate is because he's literally banned every game. I haven't seen Zed in a game in a long time.

I think the contention on Zed though, even if statistically he isn't that far out of line, is his absolute dominance over squishies and his safety in lane. It's just really toxic to play against when he's ahead and can just "lol press R" and if things go bad and he doesn't instagib you "lol press R again" and negate his bad decision. Zed IMO is in the same place champions like fizz and leblanc are. Win rate wise they aren't that bad but that's because they lose on the macro game. 1v1 in lane though it's extremely toxic to deal with.

Sylverblitz24 votes

It's a typical Riot move in some ways. They have specific champions they will nerf before making changes (Katarina in pre-season) but it seems others get the benefit of "we want to see the changes play out" and run riot for a few weeks or more. Then they apply nerfs that do almost nothing while compensating the same champion and so on. The idea was that taking away QSSs ability to remove deathmark meant he could have his laning potential hit. Except it didn't happen and there are no changes in 6.10 that I've seen. He is far too safe, has far too easy a time in lane and his diving is now almost a guaranteed kill if he has duskblade too.

I will never understand the reasoning behind duskblade. It gives any assassin a mini zed ult or zed an extra burst in addition to his burst... so stupid. What next, giving a crit-based champion double the crit chance? Oh wait... Yasuo

TheProAndrew10 votes

giving a champ a second health bar as a shield... oh wait TahmKench

Spoofghoul19 votes

{quoted}

giving a champ a second health bar as a shield... oh wait Yasuo

fixed it for you

Indominus 13372 votes

Yasuo shield is a joke, Tahm Kench shield is godmode. Fail more.

It Hertz When IP11 votes

One day.... one day people will realize that Tahm's "second health bar" lasts for only a few seconds if he is forced to use it as a shield and he gives up the ability to regen any of his grey health if he activates it.

One day.

Indominus 13373 votes

I am master tier, you don't need to explain abilities to me, Tahm Kench shield is godmode compared to all other shields, maybe Karma shield spam can match it with enough cdr.

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

Someone like Nautilus or Shen are free to use their shields at the start of a fight and be able to use them again 2 or 3 more times during it.

Tahm players have to estimate whether they can afford to not use his shield and if they think they can't then they need to time it for maximum effectiveness while also not using it so late they die before it activates. Then they have to either finish the fight before it runs out or run away so they don't die as soon as it wears off and then they have no health to make a big shield.

He gets a huge shield value because he can only ever use it ONCE during a fight.

Indominus 13371 votes

Nothing you said matters or changes what I said, Tahm Kench shield is godmode, Yasuo shield is a joke. Stop trying to tell me that the shield is not godmode, you won't change the mind of master tier player like me, I know the game a lot better than you.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

You're actually three divisions lower than me and have played a lot less, so I'm not sure where the snobbery over your rank is coming from.

Indominus 13371 votes

Your lack of understanding of statistics reflects your lack of understanding of the game.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=SpecterVonBaren

311 games played, 150 wins, 161 loses, 49% win rate, platinum 2. (44% winrate on Tahm Kench, ayy lmao, no wonder you think his shield isn't godmode, you don't know how to play Tahm Kench).

http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=indominus1337

31 games played, 26 wins, 5 losses, 84% win rate, platinum 5.

Hmm, these stats seem weird, could this account possibly be a master smurf? Hmm, I wish I had a higher IQ so I could deduce a proper conclusion, Hmmm, unlucky :-(

SpecterVonBaren10 votes

And all that you play are mid lane AD assassins, Talon, Zed and Yasuo. Meanwhile I'm a support main. You call Tahm OP because he counters the champions you like to play, you have a higher winrate because you can smash your lane and snowball while I can be a godlike support and it can mean nothing if my teammates don't follow up on what I do because I'm not the carry. Tahm's average winrate is 46% as well, which includes master tier players as well.

Further, if you ARE a master ranked player then how bout logging in with that account and saying so that way?

Ahegao Bunny5 votes

{quoted}

It's a typical Riot move in some ways. They have specific champions they will nerf before making changes (Katarina in pre-season) but it seems others get the benefit of "we want to see the changes play out" and run riot for a few weeks or more. Then they apply nerfs that do almost nothing while compensating the same champion and so on. The idea was that taking away QSSs ability to remove deathmark meant he could have his laning potential hit. Except it didn't happen and there are no changes in 6.10 that I've seen. He is far too safe, has far too easy a time in lane and his diving is now almost a guaranteed kill if he has duskblade too.

I will never understand the reasoning behind duskblade. It gives any assassin a mini zed ult or zed an extra burst in addition to his burst... so stupid. What next, giving a crit-based champion double the crit chance? Oh wait... Yasuo

Yasuo is a critbased champion because of his passive... not the other way around.

Zorasama6 votes

Actually, he is a critbased champion because his Q can crit. Exactly like GP.

My Waifu Vanilla4 votes

But.....Duskblade is a bad item hardly anyone buys (and it is still a rare buy even in Korea where they kinda like the item).

Indominus 133721 votes

His winrate is still 49% so why would he get nerfed? His banrate is high because people are overreacting.

Sp33d Zer037 votes

Because a lot of people are trash at him. He has a super high pick rate, just like Lucian. Lucian has a 53% pick rate but only a measly 50.9% win rate plat+, yet he is still deserving of a nerf for next patch.

Indominus 13379 votes

That is nonsense, you can't claim some people are bad at X champion as an excuse, it is subjective and lacks any evidence to support it. Lucian is getting nerfs because of his dominant laning phase over all other Marksmen without windows for counterplay. Zed doesn't dominate mid and has windows for counterplay.

Very Hard Engage15 votes

the more the champion is played, the closer to 50 it gets. zed is super popular, it makes perfect sense that he hovers around 50 constantly, despite being grossly overpowered

Indominus 13377 votes

Zed isn't grossly overpowered, Malzahar, Ekko and Kindred are.

Very Hard Engage13 votes

then stop playing assassins, (dont think i didnt see you with 85+ % win rates on yasuo talon and zed) and take your freelo on those champions.(malz ekko kindred) oh wait, they aren't freelo. they actually are just counterpicks going unchecked and they're running rampant.

zed is like a blanket over mid lane, nothing is more dominating and oppressive. you want to win lane? zeds your man.

the people who are ekko malz and kindred mains, they arent climbing above where they belong because of a champions strength, and then dodging all games they cant get in as their main due to it being banned.

they're picking the champion simply because of its sheer reliability. ekko is for sure strong, but not uncountered. im sorry you didnt pick up much magic damage or poke. maybe if you had a jayce top, or an ahri mid who roams top and puts him into the dirt.

but nope, you picked a full ad team and suddenly ekko is grossly overpowered because no one can kill him because bork, cleaver, and last whisper just aren't in your build path.

i have no problems against tank ekko, mainly because i play mage and if I see multiple tanks, im building void liandries and rylias, even on Galio do you know why? because im the one trying to put him into the dirt, not the other way around.

My Waifu Vanilla9 votes

Did you just attempt to justify the other 3 champions by saying that atleast they weren't crowding out mid lane? Last I checked Kindred wins every meta jungle match up in the book and warps the entire game by simply being in it. NO other champion can make a 3-4 man threat comp work with no tank since her ult gives her team invulnerability for 3 seconds with no cast time and her 2-3 ADCs (including herself) will heal out of the 100 HP through lifesteal while the enemy team straight up dies.

You can say Zed is crowding out mid lane (which he kind of is, but he does have bad match ups and can only maybe go 1 for 1 when not ahead while a Brand or teamfight mage can halve an entire team before he dies), but you cannot say Ekko, Malz (even more so than Zed), Kindred are not crowding out their respective roles.

GayFluffyUnicorn6 votes

You have never witnessed an OVERPOWERED champ. Diana release, xin rework release, yasuo release. Btw, if zed is freelo, why aren't u all challenger already? Everyone hating on zed is bronze-gold. Everyone is claiming he is so freelo and yet u guys either never played Zed or you got trashed pretty hard.

Very Hard Engage2 votes

oh no, i just pick galio and press R when he does, i always come out ahead against zed, the only time i lose against zed is when my team fails to come together or they ignore me, or they're pregrouped and making terrible decisions together without me.

i haven't been more than 0/2 or a 30cs gap to a zed in a long long time. i can now hold my own against your average zed players. not smurfs tho, i just back out and let him free farm and ill take what i can get in those situations and bank on late game team fights.

the average me vs zed match is were both 0/0/0 and someone may have a +/- 15cs lead. pending how aggressive he is. or what I can get away with.

YoungFarmer2 votes

{quoted}

oh no, i just pick galio and press R when he does, i always come out ahead against zed, the only time i lose against zed is when my team fails to come together or they ignore me, or they're pregrouped and making terrible decisions together without me.

i haven't been more than 0/2 or a 30cs gap to a zed in a long long time. i can now hold my own against your average zed players. not smurfs tho, i just back out and let him free farm and ill take what i can get in those situations and bank on late game team fights.

the average me vs zed match is were both 0/0/0 and someone may have a +/- 15cs lead.

If he was a smart zed, he would just QSS your ult and kill you.

Very Hard Engage8 votes

ACTIVE: Galio turns into a statue and channels for 2 seconds, halving incoming damage and Taunt icon taunting nearby enemies for the duration, which they cannot mitigate with crowd control reduction. Idol of Durand can't be cancelled by movement commands for the first 0.25 seconds of its duration if it strikes at least one enemy champion. When the channel ends, Galio bursts out of his statue form and deals magic damage to nearby enemies, increased by 10% for each basic attack he received while channeling, up to a maximum 80% increase. If the channel is canceled or interrupted, Galio deals magic damage in a smaller radius. MINIMUM MAGIC DAMAGE: 200 / 300 / 400 (+ 60% AP) 「 BONUS MAGIC DAMAGE PER HIT: 20 / 30 / 40 (+ 6% AP) 」 While channeling, Galio can cast Bulwark.png Bulwark and use instant cast actives, such as Ignite.png Ignite.

Michael Bacon2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y8K5IRr6,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-05-16T08:19:14.959+0000)

Because a lot of people are trash at him. He has a super high pick rate, just like Lucian. Lucian has a 53% pick rate but only a measly 50.9% win rate plat+, yet he is still deserving of a nerf for next patch.

Zed has 10% pick rate, that's 1/5 of Lucian's....

Chuck Charles23 votes

also banned in 77% of games

Michael Bacon4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chuck Charles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y8K5IRr6,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2016-05-16T10:52:03.251+0000)

also banned in 77% of games

Before people started banning him like crazy, his pick rate was still at around 13%

Chuck Charles9 votes

he has been "picked like crazy" for ages now. he has been a top 5 popular mid laner for a reason. he is one of the best mids if not the premier solo queue mid when played properly.

SpookyNeedle6 votes

They nerfed Fiora while she was at a 50% winrate

Pupel9 votes

I never understood the Zed rage he is strong in the right hands but has clear weaknesses

Mal the Red28 votes

Clear weaknesses?

Evidently not.

You can't out poke him, you can't out sustain him. His playstyle is entirely too safe for an assassin. He is literally the only one who can get in, kill, and get out with blinks.

Leetri5 votes

As soon as he uses his W to harass there's a ~20 second window here he has 0 escapes and barely any poke or harass. Quinn, Cho'Gath, Pantheon, Diana, Heimerdinger and Kayle all destroy Zed mid. And if you want, you could play Urgot mid as well and ruin Zed's day.

Nyxceris1 votes

Just a passing comment; Cho counters zed?

It Hertz When IP4 votes

If you build him with RoA (or any tanky AP items), Cho can shrug off Zed's all-ins. His passive gives him enough sustain to stay in lane unless Zed devotes a LOT of effort to harassing. His AoE silence and knock-up can screw with Zed's burst. And his nuke of an ult is point-and-click, forcing Zed lategame to stay outside its range.

Hard Penetrator11 votes

ITs funny how you are saying that you have 20 sec window when he has 0 escapes but you don't say he can be invulnerable on his ult for half a sec and negate harmful cc unlike pretty much every other mid laner aside of morgana and gp. Plus you can always kite ppl between ult shadow and W.

PPL don't ban Zed because he is unbeatable but because he counters pretty much every immobile carry in the game and he is generally really unfun to play against. His early game is probably in top5 from all champions in League.

LittleBlast2 votes

So basically you are saying a champ should be nerfed for having outplay potential?

Hard Penetrator7 votes

I am saying that he is really strong and ppl ban him for reason. Reasonable nerf would be alright considering he is probably best AD assassin in the game right now. Talon was on pair with him quite while back and he got nerfed. I don't see why Zed should not.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

I rather face a zed in lane than a Talon. Talon will instagib you with zero reaction time with only one item. Zed can atleast be fought.

NineTailedMystic3 votes

I kind of do for Zed, because you don't get to outplay Zed, he gets to outplay you.

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

But I would rather get outplayed by Zed and die to him being skillful than dying from blatantly overpowered champions that take little to no skill. Examples of this would be Annie at her highest where flash ult+W damn near 100-0 the entire team and you lost every fight Annie happened to have flash for #bigplays #kappa, or when Garen was heavily overtuned after his juggernaut update and 100-0 anyone that was the Villain while running at a nice 600+ MS to be unpeelable most of the time since he would also just flash QER.

AkabaneKun6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mal the Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y8K5IRr6,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2016-05-16T04:53:41.696+0000)

Clear weaknesses?

Evidently not.

You can't out poke him, you can't out sustain him. His playstyle is entirely too safe for an assassin. He is literally the only one who can get in, kill, and get out with blinks.

Fizz Leblanc

Pale Pirate2 votes

He is literally the only one who can get in, kill, and get out with blinks.

lol Leblanc Ekko Riven Khazix Katarina Fizz

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