"Dead Man’s Plate remains too strong and is crowding out other choices"

DropFill·Jan 26, 2016·261 votes·10,159 views

No, it is not too strong. This is not the reason why people are not buying other armor items. It is because you made every armor item so bad, that it is hard to choose something different from dead's man plate. Thornmail is a noob trap, Frozen Heart is a niche item, Randuins passive is also niche, Sunfire is just...Worse than dead's man plate( buff it instead of nerfing even more DMP). And I can't remember any armor items except that's well....has a very specific use and which is a AP mage item. We either need more armor item options, or you will nerf all of them to the point that we will have no reason to even buy them

262 Comments

GubaguyJan 26, 201673 votes

"Dead Man’s Plate remains too strong and is crowding out other choices"

meanwhile... summoner 4

hgjkdlsaf jeldvbJan 26, 201629 votes

my god are we seriously going back to this?

Revlak JavikJan 27, 20162 votes

Heroes of the Storm had a level 20 talent in Technical Alpha that allowed the player to respawn in 5 seconds every 180 seconds.

It was nerfed before being completely removed before closed beta.

Then Bolt of the Storm (double the distance of summoner 4 with half the cooldown) got nerfed when people ~~abused~~picked it.

hgjkdlsaf jeldvbJan 27, 201610 votes

league had revive too, and it was removed because it didn't offer any interesting gameplay. Flash actually requires serious decisions because not having it up can be fatal against anyone who knows to abuse it, and it's very easy to waste it when you either didn't need to use it, or it wouldn't have mattered. Flash ultimately adds a lot of depth to interactions which is why it's ultimately a healthy thing for the game, which is why riot's never bothered reworking it and hasn't nerfed it in ages despite it being omnipresent on all but a few champs. There's a difference between something getting picked up all the time because it's too strong and something being picked all the time because it adds strategic options. This is the core difference between flash and thunderlords. Thunderlords doesn't add gameplay, it just ensures that whoever has a better 3 hit combo wins more trades.

PeponiPoroJan 27, 20164 votes

Yes, this, but how do I pronounce your name?

hgjkdlsaf jeldvbJan 27, 201618 votes

https://youtu.be/WzK_jHhl1Wk?t=13

Approximately that

SaiannaJan 26, 201651 votes

Some players play tanks
Riot nerfs some tanks
Players pick different tanks
Riot nerfs tank items
Players pick different tanks with different tank items
"those different tank items are too strong". Tank items nerfed part 2.
Players say "fuck it" lets build AP tanks.
Riot nerfs AP ratios on tanks and buffs Lee Sin.
Players don't give a flying duck. Tanks are still played as AP burst nukers
Riot nerfs AP items, buffs magic resist items. Especially AD + MR items.
Mages became obsolete and useless.
Riot doesn't care. people still pick Lee, so it's fine.
Last "real" tank in game has been seen 2 months ago. He feed like crazy to no item AD sona.
The same AD sona has raped few enemy mages without losing even sliver of HP.
Next patch: "After some thoughts we believe, lee needs some help, that's why we've made all of his abilitites deal true damage % max health scalling with 2.0 AD"
Finally! Game is balanced, time for next LCS Boiiiiiiis!

So far we have only 1-6. Soon we'll have 16th..

hgjkdlsaf jeldvbJan 27, 20168 votes

aren't we at 12 though?

LankPantsJan 27, 201611 votes

The sad thing is, 8 kinda happened.

DeathBurstJan 26, 201635 votes

Thornmail and Frozen Heart are True Tank items, not Juggernaut Items. I personally use Sunfire a lot, but I agree that Randuin may feel a bit niche.

You're forgetting Iceborn Gauntlet, but it's in the same category as Frozen Hearth, and Ohmwrecker, but it's dead.

Ariel the CruelJan 26, 201644 votes

Ohmwrecker is actually a really good item with a really bad priority. You want the active early game, but the stats don't justify it. Late game after you've bought the stats, you don't need the active anymore.

HayRossJan 26, 201619 votes

The REAL reason that people get dead man's plate is simple:

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/scratch-cup/images/7/76/Gotta_go_fast.png/revision/latest?cb=20150123021616

SettDownShutUpJan 26, 201618 votes

What if they added an item that gave you a large amount of Armor, but on activation tripled the Armor but cut your movement speed by half.

ChaoticPineconeJan 27, 20162 votes

I hope you only mean tripling the armor from the item, and not total armor.

Imagine tank malphite with 500 armor (Frozen Heart, Thornmail, Sunfire, Randiuns - so not even including the armor of the item). Activates it. Gets 1500 armor. His E hits for 700 damage.

Ariel the CruelJan 27, 20167 votes

Taric He recommends triple armor and your first thought is Malphite?

Rammus Ok.

Billy VoHagenJan 26, 201614 votes

item 3025 It's pretty much a better frozen heart now, save for a bit less armor.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 26, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Billy VoHagen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fkEE5EL0,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-01-26T16:38:47.489+0000)

It's pretty much a better frozen hearth now, save for a bit less armor.

its not really the best choice for a tank. but if you want mana and cdr its the way to go. and also slow people with passive. I'd rather go with randuins or frozen heart

Billy VoHagenJan 26, 20162 votes

But why would you get Frozen heart over this? The attack speed slow on heart isn't much, and with frozen fist being cheaper, it just seems in most every way better.

MunchCrunchLunchJan 26, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Billy VoHagen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fkEE5EL0,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-01-26T16:47:44.237+0000)

But why would you get Frozen heart over this? The attack speed slow on heart isn't much, and with frozen fist being cheaper, it just seems in most every way better.

iceborn gauntlet has less armor. 25 less armor. its a lot. considering all the armor pen and armor reduction items.

YumaS2AstralJan 26, 20162 votes

{quoted}

iceborn gauntlet has less armor. 25 less armor. its a lot. considering all the armor pen and armor reduction items.

Iceborn Gauntlet is still a better option many times due to its damage. Yes it has less armor, but the idea is that the more damage you deal, the less armor you will need in the end. Frozen Heart is still a better option for tanks that do not have time to proc Gauntlet's passive, though. Examples include most tank junglers Amumu Sejuani Nunu Rammus

Slamurai JackJan 26, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Iceborn Gauntlet is still a better option many times due to its damage. Yes it has less armor, but the idea is that the more damage you deal, the less armor you will need in the end. Frozen Heart is still a better option for tanks that do not have time to proc Gauntlet's passive, though. Examples include most tank junglers

You could really make an argument for IBG on all 4 of those champions. It's even one of Amumu's recommended items. And I've been building IBG on Sejuani for a while now. Forget FH, that shit's garbage.

YumaS2AstralJan 26, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fkEE5EL0,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-26T17:47:47.814+0000)

You could really make an argument for IBG on all 4 of those champions. It's even one of Amumu's recommended items. And I've been building IBG on Sejuani for a while now. Forget FH, that shit's garbage.

IBG is not a good item for Amumu. His base AD is surprisingly low (tanky melee champions tend to have high base AD, but Amumu breaks this rule) and he rely on E to constantly proc the passive, and he can't always stick reliably enough. Also, you are better off building AP items if you want damage; Rylai is one of them, and it provides the same slow and stickness that IBG would provide but in a way that Amumu can take better advantage of.

Just because an item is recommended does not necessarily mean that it is a good item for that champion. Leona , Thresh , and TahmKench have item 3068 listed as recommended items for them, but in reality, SFC is a horrible item for them if they are going support (Tahm sometimes go top, where SFC is a viable item for him)

Nagoh ShanJan 26, 20166 votes

As you consider %armor pen, the gap between the two armor values shrinks by the same percentage, making Iceborn even better, due to the way armor works.

For example with 90 and 65 the difference is 25. At 45% armor pen, the values are 49.5 and 35.75 or a 13.75 armor gap.

Math check: 25 * .55 (or the armor gap modified by penetration) is 13.75

So as %penetration goes up, the two values get closer together. Flat pen is a different story though.

Power CosmicJan 26, 20169 votes

item 3143 I get all the time. Especially when other team has two champs building crits.

item 3068 Can help get you more gold through added assists and last hits.

YumaS2AstralJan 26, 201610 votes

{quoted}

I get all the time. Especially when other team has two champs building crits.

Can help get you more gold through added assists and last hits.

item 3143 is pretty strong against Gangplank and Yasuo

DropFillJan 26, 20169 votes

{quoted}

is pretty strong against and

"Pretty strong" no, it is better than against non-crit champions. Both GP and Yasuo ignores shit tons of armor, so only the -10% crit reduction won't save you

DengedenJan 26, 20162 votes

Yeah no, their armor pen is situational, especially Yasuo's.

Ariel the CruelJan 27, 20164 votes

Yeah no, their armor pen is situational, especially Gangplank's

I think you got those backwards. GP only has armor pen on barrel explosions. Yas has bonus armor pen on everything after he ults.

DengedenJan 27, 20164 votes

Implying he can safely ult a tank, whereas GP can stack barrels from afar. Yep, I'm in the right place.

Power CosmicJan 26, 20163 votes

I think it will save you more than anything else (in terms of damage reduction).

BârdJan 26, 201635 votes

Also helps against Anivia Karthus , because reasons.

Can U AD See MeJan 26, 20165 votes

The critical damage reduction works against them?

Lao Fu the TigerJan 26, 201624 votes

For some reason, Anivia's bonus damage with her passive and Karthus' isolated damage is coded as crit.

Photos of GhostsJan 26, 201624 votes

For obvious reasons. The obscure part is why crit damage runes don't increase it.

dr lichdeathJan 26, 201618 votes

the other weird question is why is it coded as a crit and doesnt proc the heal?

Auz the RipperJan 26, 20161 votes

Spells can't lifesteal

Noam BraumskyJan 26, 201618 votes

They also can't crit, but here we are :P

TaoistMasterJan 26, 20168 votes

item 3068

Not as OP as it used to be.

Still a solid pick up for some top laners

Only Play DariusJan 26, 20161 votes

Useless on anyone not named Mundo

Ariel the CruelJan 26, 201612 votes

Rammus item 3068 item 3075 item 3001 item 3151 item 1316 item 3146 Yo.

LordOfTheLeagueJan 26, 20164 votes

what is gunblade doing here ?

Blade of JusticJan 26, 20166 votes

What is with this sick fancy of wanting to nerf every single good tank item in the game?

If you're REALLY having a hard time killing a tank, then you probably should have put this on your team:

Fiora Vayne item 3033 item 3153 summoner 14

I don't see any "Anti-True Damage" items on the market.

GrunkIe StanJan 26, 20165 votes

I think they could just give Sunfire a small buff, and while they're at it, give us the ability to turn it on and off, cause I'll be trying to take a tower with an enemy standing under it but the tower will keep aggroing on me

On Your SideJan 27, 20165 votes

Of course Dead Man's Plate is the number one armor choice when it gives movement speed. Just like you always buy boots in every game. It's a mobility-based game, a long cd AoE slow or a weak aoe damage passive is never going to contest with the ability to catch up to enemies or escape death. As long as it is worth buying, it will always be prioritized. I honestly don't know what they're expecting players to buy or what kind of variation they even want to see.

CarnariusJan 27, 20165 votes

we have a weird situation in league right now. full ad comps should ALWAYS suffer for having only ad champs, especially against heavy tank comps, but it's not the case now. they just build armor pen + have innate tank shreding skills, and there we go, they fly through tanks like they were made from paper. i don't think that this is healthy, especially that it was balanced way better in seasons 1/2/3

Laughing FishJan 27, 20163 votes

item 3070 item 3056

Nagoh ShanJan 27, 20163 votes

The hilarious part is that Ohmwrecker has the best stat combination for a tank item, and it's efficient without the passive.

It's just there's absolutely no need for a tower-dive item due to the way minion waves were changed, and the general increase in understanding of how dives work.

If the active buffed an allied turret to clear waves better, it'd be an amazing tank item that you'd get against siege comps.

SnazzyTheMisterJan 27, 20163 votes

i feel like the reason deadmans is being picked up so much is its a safe stat dump. if you don't know what you could make the best use of but you need armor and hp deadmans will work. other items aren't exactly weak they are just more of a choice. before deadmans this is kinda what was happening with randuins you could just buy this item if you needed armor and hp without really thinking about what else if offers.

SpecterVonBarenJan 26, 20161 votes

I think it's both, they really should remove the slow on auto from Deadman's and increase the damage it does for the auto instead. It should be a selfish item for getting yourself to the enemy, the slow makes it so any tanky initiater would want it too.

At the same time, they've nerfed a lot of the reasons to pick other tank items, Randuins lost the slow upon being attacked, Frozen Heart got its attack speed aura reduced, and Righteous Glory got gutted. They should remove the crit reduction on Randuins and give it back the movement speed slow on being attacked and make a new armor item that gives the crit reduction. Make Frozen Heart reduce attack speed by 20%. Make the passive of Sunfire toggleable. And give Righteous Glory some armor by making it build from Catalyst and Raptor Cloak and give it back the Catalyst passive.

Or something.