Can we make ibg melee only now?

Heckin Support·Mar 31, 2016·96 votes·5,371 views

Even after the "nerf"? I still see every Ezreal second or even first build it. And it's so obnoxious that someone whose hard to catch already with all the range, poke, and blink to kite the hell out of anyone.

118 Comments

Remlap1223Mar 31, 201632 votes

The problem isn't Ezreal, it's the fact that he's the go to marksman for slowing people down. Ashe is crying in the corner because her slows are just goddamn awful.

JasęnMar 31, 20163 votes

um. im sorry but no way in hell is a bitchreal going to outslow queen ashe. blue build ezreal is just something you ignore while you focus on his team. I have yet to see an ez that knows how to auto correctly for his damage to be meaningful.

PunkkeeApr 1, 201642 votes

that statement wasnt even bronze thats more like level 20 i didnt downvote tho because bitchreal made me chuckle

KnoyleApr 1, 201610 votes

blue build ezreal is just something you ignore while you focus on his team.

Is blue Ez a low cc tank because I'm pretty sure He's not a low cc tank.

Old Man TeetoApr 1, 20162 votes

He's a high cc tank with infinite durability right?

LankPantsApr 1, 201614 votes

Honestly they should just man up and remove the ability to proc on-hits with Ez's Q, it's only ever caused problems. Plus if you do this you probably free up enough power to make his W something other than a waste of mana.

AckelopeApr 1, 20161 votes

I think the main point of abuse that his Q has had is applying Sheen and spell effects when it shouldn't. tbh, I really like building shiv and other on-hit items on him , and it's a fun gimmick that works on him because of that, but isn't too overbearing, and thus I present my idea of simply making it unable to proc sheen effects.

XPL TurdongApr 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I think the main point of abuse that his Q has had is applying Sheen and spell effects when it shouldn't. tbh, I really like building shiv and other on-hit items on him , and it's a fun gimmick that works on him because of that, but isn't too overbearing, and thus I present my idea of simply making it unable to proc sheen effects.

It applies on-hit, not spell effects. Sheen isn't a spell effect.

If ezreal's ability to proc sheen effects with his Q were removed, he would fall out of viability for good. His q applying on hit is the only thing keeping ezreal viable, mostly because nothing else in his kit besides his ult does any significant damage.

YCitizenSnipsYApr 1, 20163 votes

It actually hasn't, Before season 6 the last time Blue Ezreal was considered normal and not a troll build was season 2. In season 3-5 Tri Force was the go to purchase for him when trying to incorporate sheen into his build.

LankPantsApr 1, 201611 votes

You're very, very wrong.

Blue Ezreal first became a thing in Season 3 when he started to build Spirit of the Elder Lizard, an item introduced in Season 3. Since then It's been at least somewhat standard to build IBG (which was also introduced in S3) over Triforce on Ez.

The last time it was unarguably better to build Tri on Ez was in fact Season 2, the exact season you quote as "blue Ez being viable" despite his items not existing at the time.

ShadragonApr 1, 20161 votes

Blue Build Ezreal existed in S2, it just referred to building Ezreal like he was Ryze (IE frozen heart, banshee's veil, archangel's staff, etc)

LankPantsApr 1, 20163 votes

And it was utterly terrible, what's your point?

ShadragonApr 1, 20161 votes

The fact that it existed and was popular, that's all. Just because it was awful doesn't mean it wasn't accepted as the meta build. Just look at Ahri. How long did it take for the community to realize that building RoA>WoTA>Rylai's on her was terrible?

LankPantsApr 1, 20164 votes

The fact that it existed and was popular, that's all.

It wasn't popular, blue Ez never became popular until S3, the main Ez build in S2 was Triforce into standard ADC. It existed in about the same space as AP Kog currently. It was there, and people knew it was there, but it was horrible and no-one built it.

Just look at Ahri. How long did it take for the community to realize that building RoA>WoTA>Rylai's on her was terrible?

In S2 that was the optimal build, ROA was about the same strength as it is now, but HP was a more valuable stat and WoTA was far more powerful back when it was the Teambook. You played 2 APs with WoTA and the aura multiplied the power, that's just what you did in S2 because it was broken.

SpongebobIsLifeApr 1, 20161 votes

if they do that though, the ability becomes virtually useless.

LankPantsApr 1, 20161 votes

What like his W is right now?

The point is that Ez's Q is so overpowered as a single spell that it drains all the power budget from his kit. Even if you remove its on-hits it's still strong skillshot poke with some of the longest range of any ADC which reduces the CD of all of his basic abilities. That's still plenty enough power for an ability, if you removed on-hits from his Q you could then actually put some power into his W too.

SpongebobIsLifeApr 1, 20161 votes

then he has 2 useless abilities. Like, the q damage would do nothing to frontliners and thered be no reason whatsoever to pick him over any crit based adc. If something like this happened, then would probably end up putting an ad ratio on his w to compensate.

LankPantsApr 1, 20162 votes

I agree his W would need some buffs to go along with this, in fact I suggested it in both of the last two posts.

His Q wouldn't be weak either, it would still be a super high DPS ability, it would mostly just be weaker when used for poke.

Also Ezreal at current cannot break frontlines. A tank with a single armour item and Ninja Tabi can basically ignore an Ezreal, He has unquestionably the worst sustained damage of any ADC with his current build and poke damage will never kill tanks.

My Waifu VanillaApr 2, 20161 votes

His Q already does nothing to frontliners since it cannot crit and he only has Dominicks for ArP. If you buy Armor against Ezreal he does ZERO damage already. This wouldn't change.

macromiteApr 1, 20167 votes

how about we just remove ezreal. if we nerf this one he's just gonna break a different one.

MisterShamelessApr 1, 20164 votes

His ruined a lot of items honestly :(

A LiberalApr 2, 20161 votes

RIP: item 1402

redniwediSMar 31, 20165 votes

I've played this game since season 1, and I've never seen someone abbreviate Iceborn as IBG...

Is it really that hard to type a few more letters?

NahuiApr 1, 20164 votes

IBG = 3 letters.

Iceborn Gauntlet = 15 letters and a space.

16 characters - 3 characters = 13 characters.

13 does not equal few.

redniwediSApr 1, 20161 votes

Notice how I refered to it as iceborn?

Oh well. It all depends on how fast you type I guess. To me 13 is in fact a few.

AckelopeApr 1, 20161 votes

to just about everyone 13 should be a few, but the point remains that IBG is much shorter, and most people know what it means. if they don't they can just ask anyway. acronyms are cool things, yo.

NahuiApr 1, 20162 votes

A few is generally know as numbers between like 3 and 6 or so.

However, taking something that's 3 characters and expanding it to 16, that's asking for a 533% increase in effort and time. Proportionately, that's not a few.

AckelopeApr 1, 20162 votes

the problem with a few being generally known as anything is that general knowledge varies pretty greatly from person-person/area-area, as is the example given here, with this guy considering 13 being a few. in terms of typing, when we're working with such a small amount of letters, a 533% increase is still pretty negligible. Regardless, I don't think this is a topic of discussion worth arguing over, and would rather dismiss it and agree to use separate nomenclature.

SoMNiaApr 1, 20165 votes

So "IBG" is lazy, but "iceborn" isn't? What a pointless distinction. Why do you even care?

IcyPepperMar 31, 20164 votes

I mean, it's not like they can't use item 3022 :/

We all know that IBG is being abused.

aperson1Apr 2, 20161 votes

20% CDR is a much more useful offensive stat than the crappy AD on Frozen Mallet. I don't see it replacing that slot on blue Ez.

IcyPepperApr 2, 20161 votes

Maybe not Blue Ez, since how his Q works, but yes Frozen Mallet is kind of crappy. If they reduced the health to 400 or 500, and bumped the AD up to 70, more people might buy it.

Or just rework the item entirely and make it... less niche?

aperson1Apr 2, 20161 votes

It's niche because its use case is niche. Pretty much every new damage-oriented champ released at Riot has ridiculous chase potential and slows out the ass, and there are better items to get if you're looking to be tanky + stick to targets (IBG, Randuins, Deadman's).

I think it's in a fine spot, but I wouldn't be against a rework of it.

ConturbatioApr 1, 20164 votes

Or, you could just remove it from Ezreal's shop menu. I'm so tired of items getting nerfed because of Ezreal.

NahuiMar 31, 20161 votes

It'd come with a large Ez buff most likely

WoonStruckApr 1, 201614 votes

{quoted}

It'd come with a large Ez buff most likely

What should happen is Ez loses the ability to proc on-hit effects, but gets large buffs to his Q, W, and possibly E.

His identity should be a poke ADC, not an item destroyer.

Spinning AxesApr 1, 20168 votes

Remove On-Hit effects.

Allow Ezreal Q to crit.

Problem solved.

WoonStruckApr 1, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spinning Axes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x1ps5bj2,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-04-01T02:16:14.074+0000)

Remove On-Hit effects.

Allow Ezreal Q to crit.

Problem solved.

Then you have an ADC with a low CD, high range auto-reset.

It would work, yes, but he'd inevitably take a good amount of nerfs after that as well.

PeponiPoroApr 1, 20161 votes

So many ADCs do have crit scaling though, and with their encouragement of crit and reduction of overall attack damage, how else is Ezreal to participate in the game but with buyable CC? I think Ezreal probably just needs a small/medium scale rework, as they left him on a corner with the ADC rework. The way he is being used now is because he isn't as effective as other ADCs when you build him a different way.

LankPantsApr 1, 20163 votes

Actually not many ADCs have crit scaling.

It's only Ashe on her Slow, Quinn on Harriers CD, MF on her Q's bounce, Cait on headshot and Sivir on her W bounces. One trend here is that the majority of these do not grant reliable single-target damage. The only crit scaling that goes straight into single target damage is headshot and Cait pays for that by having a incredibly low base attack speed stat.

Making Ez's Q crit isn't innately horrible, but the scaling on the crit would have to be quite low. If it crit at around 33% bonus that would probably be OK but going any higher than this would run the risk of creating a character with both the single target DPS of Kog'maw and the poke of Jayce, while being exceptionally slippery.

PeponiPoroApr 1, 20161 votes

Yes.

My Waifu VanillaApr 2, 20161 votes

Almost every other ADC auto attacks way more than Ez though. Ezreal doesn't build crit because he simply does not auto attack enough which is why his common build is just amplifying the shit out of Q (BoRK, IBG, Muramana, Dominicks, etc.). His damage would probably be the same in a Q can crit world and he build for it, but he would be a LOT easier to catch since his Q would not slow, he would probably not have BoRK, and other reasons.

Also, his Q already basically has a 100% crit chance with Sheen so it's not like its damage would go down that much.

LankPantsApr 3, 20161 votes

The only reason why Ez doesn't use his AAs as much is because he doesn't build crit. If he did he'd be more reliant on his AAs and he'd weave his Qs kind of like a lower CD volley.

Giving 100% crit damage would be far stronger than a Sheen, just because IE/ER/Zeal upgrade gives a lot more DPS than IBG/Muramana/BotRK. If the Q was dealing equal damage with a crit build he'd be a lot stronger.

My Waifu VanillaApr 3, 20161 votes

He has no reason to build crit right now is the reason he doesn't build it. Also, P Daddy would be the only Zeal upgrade that would be viable on Ez after this change (if it did) go through since Statikk and RFC would not work with Q since it would no longer proc on-hits.

And the entire point of this change would be to make Ez do more damage, but he would lose almost ALL of his safety for it since he wouldn't have IBG slows or BoRK slow to help him kite and would be dead just like every other ADC if someone would catch them out.

LankPantsApr 3, 20161 votes

but he would lose almost ALL of his safety for it since he wouldn't have IBG slows or BoRK slow to help him kite and would be dead just like every other ADC if someone would catch them out.

The majority of Ez's safety comes from his E, if it were his slows that were making him safe Ashe would be one of the safest carries in the game. Yes, this would encourage riskier play since he'd have to AA more, but he'd certainly still be a super safe pick thanks to his E. Remember here that Lucian is considered to be a very safe ADC and he has 50 range less on his AA than Ez.

Also, P Daddy would be the only Zeal upgrade that would be viable on Ez after this change (if it did) go through since Statikk and RFC would not work with Q since it would no longer proc on-hits.

That's not really true, those items are just good items. Other ADCs build SS to assist with their waveclear and I'm fairly certain the Ez would too. One other thing is that SS is currently terrible on Ez because of his Q. The crit on SS is tied to its source, which means if Ez procs it with his Q it will never crit. This is basically the reason why the yellow Ez build (Tri>SS>IE) fell off.

And the entire point of this change would be to make Ez do more damage,

One thing I think you're forgetting here is that Ez currently has the lowest sustained damage of any ADC. The only other champs who have mid-late game DPS simmilar to Ez are guys like Jhin, Graves and Kalista who all have far better burst than him and have a serious limitation on their DPS.

In fact the highest DPS way to build Ez is currently something like item 3508 item 3078 item 3031 item 3046 item 3036 . People generally don't do this because you're basically playing a sub-par Lucian but this build significantly outdamages the blue build in terms of sustained damage.

You need to remember that strength when you talk about things like this. In terms of sustained damage, this build is pretty good already, it's outclassed but completely playable. What you're talking about in saying Q should crit fully is essentially adding an extra AA every 1 second if he took the 5% CDR in the masteries. (which he would because its value gets multiplied to insanity) In order to buff his attack speed by that much he'd need a 160% steroid, which is insane. Even that's a lot weaker though since his Q also acts as reliable poke and allows him to 'break the AS cap'. Bear in mind I'm assuming a 1 to 1 ratio and 0 base damage on his Q here too.

Something tells me that a 160% attackspeed steroid equivalent would break Ezreal.

HellioningApr 1, 20161 votes

Completely destroy AP Ezreal?

My Waifu VanillaApr 2, 20161 votes

AP Ezreal doesn't even use Q for most of his damage. It is almost ALL in W and R.

HellioningApr 2, 20161 votes

Yes, but not being able to proc lich bane with his Q will severely slow down his burst.

ABlueQuakerApr 3, 20161 votes

That fucks Trinity Force Ezreal though. IBG just needs to have a Single-Target Slow and Spellblade Damage for Ranged Champions. Half the problem with Blue Ezreal is that he can hit a fucking minion and still slow your whole team with the On-Hit AoE Slow Field.

kunkudunkApr 1, 20162 votes

I'd be ok with this. I play ez regardless of if he is in meta or not and honestly the only thing he consistently does no matter the season is try to make the most out of some sheen item. I feel like a world where essence reaver is actually an ideal buy on him on not just ibg or triforce and then make him feel like a real caster adc, not just a q bot who uses e to either finish the kill or kite. Plus his q not procing spell effects is annoying as it stops death fire touch from procing on it.