Make Tahm Kench choose

Heckin Support·Dec 30, 2015·217 votes·6,454 views

Make Tahm Kench decide if he wants to eat you or stun you. If he eats or stuns you then the stacks of his passive should go away so he can't do both.

119 Comments

Chaotic SageDec 30, 201534 votes

I support this idea. Would at least force him need to make more decisions and require more strategy.

62227164DEL1Dec 31, 20151 votes

[deleted]

KaisadiIIaDec 31, 20158 votes

What does this post have to do with OP's?

WiegrafOfValorDec 31, 201510 votes

You guys keep asking for this kind of bullsht then when they gut him, you'll be the first asking to buff him and complaining about Riot's team.. He's fine man.

shyieDec 31, 20154 votes

You think he's balanced?

Dat Udyr DoeDec 31, 20155 votes

He's definitely not unbalanced, and it's not like he really gets that much playtime anyways from what I've seen.

shyieDec 31, 20154 votes

Well think. I don't play TK too much but I can say this. He has a stun every 10 seconds, a "swallow" thing for another 10, a health bar that virtually doubles when used, he's not too balanced right now. He also does stupid damage and scales with health.

ƒoesJan 1, 20161 votes

You do realize that there's plenty of champions that have a stun more than every 10 seconds, right?

killd0zerJan 2, 20161 votes

Brand can stun even 2.4

r u pregrantDec 31, 201517 votes

Y yall hatin on tahm. ;( hes fking FINE

yay nibbersDec 31, 201530 votes

Tahm was buffed to the point that people were taking him jungle and dominating with just HP items. I can confirm this because I took part in that. He was one of them sleeper OP junglers and still is pretty good (over 56% winrate among experienced players). He gets way too much damage for just building HP on top of his already absurd Devour damage and insane CC as well as being a gank machine thanks to his ult.

That said, I agree, he's in a good spot right now. He's not without weakness. He has no gap closers and basically becomes a Zhonyas for the ADC later in games.

Odyssey85Dec 31, 201511 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TBfe1bAl,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-12-31T01:53:51.110+0000)

Tahm was buffed to the point that people were taking him jungle and dominating with just HP items. I can confirm this because I took part in that. He was one of them sleeper OP junglers and still is pretty good (over 56% winrate among experienced players). He gets way too much damage for just building HP on top of his already absurd Devour damage and insane CC as well as being a gank machine thanks to his ult.

That said, I agree, he's in a good spot right now. He's not without weakness. He has no gap closers and basically becomes a Zhonyas for the ADC.

Yeah for real. I thought the TahmKench hate threads die, but the boards never let go. The removal of the MS boost when devouring an ally and not walking towards enemies is a hard nerf on him, it hurts his stickiness and ability to reposition allies. I see him in a pretty good spot right now as well

Heckin SupportDec 31, 201512 votes

{quoted}

Yeah for real. I thought the hate threads die, but the boards never let go. The removal of the MS boost when devouring an ally and not walking towards enemies is a hard nerf on him, it hurts his stickiness and ability to reposition allies. I see him in a pretty good spot right now as well

That hurt his support power more than anything. Riot should of focused more on his damage and not his supporting power. The fact that he deals so much, and you can't even focus him down because he basically has 2 health pools is crazy.

yay nibbersDec 31, 20156 votes

Him devouring teammates and running away with them at warp speed was easily the most frustrating part of his kit though, his other traits like his 2 HP pools are more easily dealt with than him running away at the speed of sound with their almost dead but now untargetable ADC.

Tails DollDec 31, 20152 votes

It's also what made him unique, should just nerf his dmg and leave his "HAHA no" part un touched, even if I hate it myself, I hate even more the absurd dmg he brings.

RyzeReworkDec 31, 20152 votes

Hes a better jungler /top laner then a support because of his ult and when he's getting money he can buy items to make him tankier

Spaceman5pffJan 2, 20161 votes

I rocked that 23-4 TK Jungle a few times

PennsDec 30, 20157 votes

Both Mundo and Voli are better versions of Tahm, why do you want him nerfed while they are freelo lol

Chaotic SageDec 30, 201519 votes

They are better in some respects, but they lack the utility that Tahm brings.

PennsDec 30, 20157 votes

They are better in enough ways to call them flat out better. The only utility Tahm really has makes him annoying, not strong. Tahm is Illaoi- level, as in: If you play bad or pick the wrong champs you get rekt, but if you play well they cant do anything.

Apart from that, Tahm needs his stun in order to even get in range for his W. Making it remove all stacks would be stupid...

Chaotic SageDec 30, 201516 votes

I mean, you can call them better if you want, but they fill different roles. Apple and orange comparisons always go the way you want them too.

PennsDec 30, 20154 votes

Nah they are all 3 tanky damage based bruisers/ juggernauts. Comparing Fizz to Ashe would be comparing apple and orange.

But whatever, just keep begging for Tahm nerfs because you find his kit annoying to play against lol. Meanwhile both Mundo and Volibear jungle are sitting at a 5% higher win rate than him. Mundo also has a higher pick rate and flat out better stats overall + people with 50 or more Mundo games apparently have a 70% win rate with Mundo jungle lol.

It Hertz When IPDec 31, 20158 votes

Mundo and Voli can't make an ally untargetable.

Mundo can't stun an enemy while simultaneously relocating them. Voli can, but for a much shorter duration and less controlled direction. Oh, and he doesn't deal %maxHP damage while doing so.

Mundo and Voli don't get two health bars.

Mundo and Voli don't have a stun.

Mundo and Voli don't have an AA buff that scales off of HP.

Tahm doesn't have built in %HP regen. (Mundo)

Tahm doesn't have a MS boost (anymore). (Volibear)

Tahm doesn't have an AoE ability. (Mundo and Volibear)

They have some similarities in their builds and all three are durable, but they are played in VERY different ways.

PennsDec 31, 20154 votes

But they are all tanky fighters or bruisers. Obviously you can compare them, they dont need to have to exact same kit lol. Xerath and Ziggs are one of, if not the most similar champs in the game, but whats that? Ziggs doesnt have a stun? Xerath doesnt have a minefield that stays on the ground and slows enemies? Ziggs doesnt even have 3 shots of his ult? :O

Saying "comparing Mundo, Volibear and Tahm is like comparing apple and orange" just shows that you are totally biased and unable to discuss objectively (not you, just the guy that wrote it and everyone that upvoted it, so... probably you too)

It Hertz When IPDec 31, 20156 votes

Where does objectivity come into it? I'm not arguing for buffs or nerfs, I'm pointing out that the differences in his kit SHOULD prompt the player to adopt a different playstyle. Can you play him exactly like Mundo? yes. But you're never going to get the same level of results from it. And other than continuing to chant "they're all tanky fighters" (which incidentally matches the description of dozens of other champions) you still haven't actually provided any real evidence to support your claim that Tahm brings nothing substantial to the table that Mundo and Voli do, whereas I have already listed a number of things that he does.

And actually Xerath and Ziggs are a perfect example. Xerath's poke is charged, with instantaneous travel time; Ziggs' is slower and more telegraphed. Xerath has a slowing one-off spell, Ziggs has a minefield designed to cut off areas. Xerath has a stun; Ziggs has a displacement (himself AND enemies). Xerath's ult is a three-shot pinpoint strike designed for finishing a target; Ziggs has a super-long range AoE nuke for waveclearing and finishing a target. Xerath has a passive that sustains his poking attacks, Ziggs' passive is an AA modifier to push turrets and clear waves.

tl;dr Xerath is a poke mage, Ziggs is a zoning mage. It's not about similarities in a kit; it's the differences that clarify role.

Chaotic SageDec 31, 20153 votes

Guys it's like he's not reading the replies at all...Ziggs and Xerath are actually a good comparison (not apples to oranges), as they're both long range poke mages that are taken mid and preform the same job. Mundo and Volibear are both most frequently seen jungle or top. Tahm is also seen there, occasionally, but is primarily focused as a support. Do you see what's being said yet? They're played with different styles and fill different roles. Have you ever seen a Mundo or Voli just sit around your carry while they're in danger and protect them while while the rest of the team gets there or kills the enemy? No? That's cause they're built to chase down or just straight up sit in the middle of a fight being a general can't-be-ignored nuisance. Tahm can do that too, but all he has to chase is a slow and his ult, which the enemy gets notice of ahead of them. Do you really want me to continue explaining the different roles they play? Cause it'll get tedious pretty quick and you're the only one arguing that they're the same. Didn't realize you are not from the US and probably don't understand how the apples to oranges comparison works. So sorry.

PennsDec 31, 20151 votes

What reply did I not read? Ziggs/ Xerath is an extreme example as they are nearly the same champion, but that doesnt mean you cant compare tanky fighters and tanky fighters just because one of them is more utility focused lol. And yes, I have seen Volibear peel and I have seen Tahm run into the enemy team trying to kill their carries as well.

Fact is, they are all tanky, damage based fighters, so why the hell should I not be able to compare them? Like I said, saying Fizz is better than Ashe wouldnt make sense since they are totally different champs, but thats not the case with Tahm/ Mundo/ Voli.

But ok, lets just assume its impossible to compare their kit and look at Tahm as a support that can only peel. How do you explain Mundo and Volibear jungle both having 55% win rate and Mundo having overall better stats while Tahm support has 48% (in Plat+)? And why the eff would you want him nerfed a third time now when his speed boost buff hurt him a lot already and many other champs are a way bigger problem?

Chaotic SageDec 31, 20154 votes

Sigh you're getting annoyingly aggressive now, and still missing the point. I'll repeat it one more time, nice and slow. They. Do. Not. Fill. The. Same. Primary. Roles. Please stop comparing apples and oranges, the only thing you're getting right is that they CAN all fill the 'tanky fighter' role if necessary (that DOES NOT mean they're meant to). You really should try to understand that different champs do different things better than others. It's called strengths and weaknesses of a individual champion kits. Also comparing win rates of completely different champs just makes your argument more laughable. Anyway, I'm done here, tired of repeating myself, if I respond again it'll read "TL;DR."

LF AnnieDec 31, 20156 votes

fact, tahm's W can be an aoe dmg ability.

BlastiresJan 1, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TBfe1bAl,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-31T13:04:48.019+0000)

Mundo and Voli don't have an AA buff that scales off of HP.

I'm gonna be that guy. Mundo E does scales based on hp, even if it's % missing hp. Your point is still good tho.

EcchiOtakuTMJan 1, 20162 votes

Actually voli+mundo passive/ulti are trademark for giving another HP bar it's just that tahm's is more of a shielding then their versions which ignores grevious wound.

Voli's flip is part stun >:D

and actually they both have an AA buff that scales off HP

Rubber JesusJan 1, 20161 votes

Just look at their champion roles. Voli and Mundo are primary Fighters, secondary Tanks. Tahm is a primary Support, secondary Tank. Braum is also a primary support, secondary tank. Fighters do damage. Support tanks do not.

By comparing a utility, support kit to a fighter and saying they are the same strength pretty much indicates that Tahm's strengths and weaknesses are out of whack. Tahm is not meant to do the damage of a Fighter with a Support/Tank kit.

Rubber JesusJan 1, 20161 votes

If you look at primary and secondary roles, you can see they are very different, like apples and oranges. Voli and Mundo have primary roles as Figher, secondary as Tank. They are meant to do damage, and be tanky. So their role is much different than Tahm, who has a primary role of Support and a secondary role as Tank. His is to provide utility and be tanky. Your assertion of comparing Tahm to Voli and Mundo is saying that a Support Tank has the kit and damage to play as a Figher Tank. Fighters lack the utility a support has._ A more comparable champion would be Braum_ (primary Support, secondary Tank), or even a Leona (primary Tank, secondary Support).

But comparing and saying he is a Figher like Voli, when his kit should be comparable to Braum, is saying his strengths and weaknesses should be reassessed. A Fighter kit does not have the utility Tahm brings to the table.

PennsJan 1, 20161 votes

The only utility Tahm has is his W and maybe his ult, but no one uses that in soloq anyway.

Riot also said that they initially designed Tahm as top lane/ jungle tank but I guess his ult and W ended up being a bit too "support heavy". But his ult passive and E just dont really fit on a support because they gain value from tanky stats and were obviously made for a role with high income (of course nearly every ability gains value from stats, but supports are designed to not need as many).

Braum has WAY better CC, WAY better utility, is probably even more tanky than Tahm in some cases (his E is literally half an Alistar ult at rank 3, just that it doesnt work on towers) and his damage is still insane especially with thunderlords. Yeah Id probably say even Braum is better than Tahm.

Rubber JesusJan 2, 20161 votes

So that 70% slow and fully stacked stun on his Q isn't utility?

That makes his Q, W, and ult full utility.

Also, his E allows him to dive bot lane and take damage instead of his carry. It's like Braum's shield, in a way, in that is it meant to mitigate damage from his teammates. Also, his W is stupidly OP bot lane. I lane bot with husband playing Tahm, and he is always in the top damage to champions, gets a decent chunk of kills, and has over 6K life by the end of the game, doing insane damage. He says he is way too OP atm, after playing him often.

Weasel KenseiDec 31, 20155 votes

{quoted}

They are better in enough ways to call them flat out better. The only utility Tahm really has makes him annoying, not strong. Tahm is Illaoi- level, as in: If you play bad or pick the wrong champs you get rekt, but if you play well they cant do anything.

Apart from that, Tahm needs his stun in order to even get in range for his W. Making it remove all stacks would be stupid...

Penns is a deflector.

A deflector comes in and says how pitiful a champ is and how nerfing them is really dumb because their are so many better champs that do the same thing but better, and if you think X champ is OP your just bad, leave them alone theyre fine.

They do this because the deflector dosnt want you to touch "THEIR CHAMP" that they play... They play X champ and hate that you think X champ is op, and that you and others agree that something should be done to tone down X champ.

Penns has played at least 6 ranked games as Tahm this month, he dosnt want you messing with his champ.

He tries to deflect attention away with comments on how everything else is more powerful than X champ. All while continuing to play X champ.

Bottom line is Tham is still a bit overloaded, not just annoying to play against, but an oppressive; bordering on insurmountable lockdown + re-positioning kit that dose more damage for building defense with the health of 2 tanks so he can do some tanking while he tanks.

PennsDec 31, 20151 votes

I never said youre "bad" if you think Tahm is op. You probably dont know how to kite him properly, or you just dont main the right champs to deal with him, but I never said youre bad lol.

And Tahm isnt "my champ" I just played him a bit lately because his kit is fun to play for me. I was "defending" him before that as well, when I played 0 Tahm games (apart from the few normal games right after he came out...), and I havent played Tahm for quite a while now.

Bottom line is both Mundo and Volibear and most likely even more tanky fighters have a way higher win rate, better stats and are flat out stronger champions than Tahm. I doubt Riot will nerf him again since he already got 2.

LF AnnieDec 31, 20153 votes

i just wish there was more downtime on his W to make it feel like there is actually a window to trade after he devour's something.

yay nibbersDec 31, 201511 votes

The issue is more not being able to do anything for a century while Tahm licks you and swallows you up to move you and then probably lick you again. Mundo scales better off HP and Voli can better catch people but neither will lock you down like Tahm will. The worst part of it all is the 30% max HP damage he does to you on top of absolute denial of control of your character as well as moving you toward his team, probably leading to your death.

PennsDec 31, 20152 votes

And if you make his stun remove all 3 stacks, he wont EVER be able to eat anyone thats even trying to kite him.

ChaddyFantomeDec 31, 20153 votes

Or, you know, just hit em 3 times like you would anyway? This change doesn't affect the scenario you described.

PennsDec 31, 20152 votes

"kite" I cant help you when you just stand there trying to 1v1 a Tahm lol. He needs his Q stun to reach people with his W. If you would have to apply 3 stacks again he wouldnt ever reach anyone with his W.

ChaddyFantomeDec 31, 20153 votes

Who said anything about 1v1ing him? If he got the stun off he doesn't need to be able to W. He stunned you. Being able to W after that if overkill, especially with how long his stacks last and how easy it is for him to apply em.

PennsDec 31, 20151 votes

U know, normally Tahm uses his Q stun from range to gap close. If he cant follow up with a W, he cant ever reach you lol.

ChaddyFantomeJan 1, 20161 votes

No, he uses his Q from range to slow, then autos you twice and you get chomped. His Q is on a stupidly low CD as well and is one of the fastest skill shots in the game. Probably IS the fastest one tbqh. Chasing as TK isn't even close to being as hard as you are pretending it is.

Dark NephthysDec 31, 20156 votes

I like this idea, I'm tired of seeing top lane TK and you can't do anything to him. Just stacks health and gets very tanky with a free 2nd health bar on top of doing insane damage + CC with Stun + devour.

Seriously...He'll walk up to you and Q's you for 260 + (70% AP) + 8% Bonus HP, if he misses then he'll just wait another 6 seconds (or much less if he built cdr). If he hit you with it, you can't escape him anymore since he just hit you with a 70% slow for 2 seconds, giving him enough time to hit you with 2 more auto attacks (which also deals 8% Bonus HP), then hits you with a Q stunning you for 1.5 seconds and than devouring you (suppressing you for 3 seconds) and then dealing 32% Max HP + 8% Bonus HP.

So basically...if they have a little bit of cdr and hit you with Q, Auto, Auto, Q, W than you just took... 520 + (140% AP) + 16% Bonus HP (For just the 2 Q's) 2 Auto attacks + 16% Bonus HP 32% Your max HP + 8% Bonus HP

On top of being a full tank, with basically 2 health bars (or just general sustain).

Spaceman5pffJan 2, 20161 votes

I don't find toplane TK that hard to go against... Fiora is WAY worse

TheorcheroDec 31, 20155 votes

It does. They stealth nerfed tahm so his stacks fall off quicker. After eating you, they disappear entirely.

Doctor JarvisDec 31, 20159 votes

But he can still stun you, THEN eat you right? Or worse yet, not even bother eating you if he doesn't need to, just keep stunning you over and over and over and over...Its like a mundo Q but worse because you were foolish enough to fight him.

FrickendaChickenDec 31, 20154 votes

Maybe instead of dropping the stacks by 3, drop the stacks by two, so he still has the threat of being able to eat someone. But still allowing your team to peel him off of you. This promotes both skill on Tahm's Part, and Teamwork on both team's part. (The team without Tahm has to use a resource or two to keep him off- the Team w/ Tahm has to help him get to the enemy to devour him.)