Can we Nerf Mage Items and ADC Items

EnigmaticMachine··5 votes·2,268 views

No matter what you do if I build mr it just gets deleted by void staff or if i get armor it gets deleted by mortal or lord d. This game prioritizes damage way too much now to the point to where you see three mages with a super back line adc and a zed just ripping through anything with only one item. They need to revert the death cap buff back to 35% and void staff back to 35% and rework lethality items to make assassins actually viable and not one trick ponies. This game was much better when tanks ran the police station. I cant counter burst with zero interaction. In fact no one can. Mages out perform every other role in every class comparison. Most mages are ranged. Most mages have the most broken item utility like hourglass and veil and even the most over flooded rune set ups and cdr items. They are the most safe and highest reward champs with almost zero risk. People may complain they have no itemization, but when do you need "itemization" when all mages run the same broken items to become unkillable hyper dps and burst machines. Akali and rumble have taken over top along with kennen. Karthus and gragas and even brand are taking over the jungle. Supports are running rampant with mages because of how unbalanced spell thief's has become. Adcs are running the show again with the crit items being reverted back to their op state which they cried loud enough and riot was too lazy to fix it. All in all this game is too much of a coin flip. You cant win unless dmg is the prime objective. Towers are useless because of this constant champion power creeping and the good player are having to suffer. Even mages complain about mages in game because they know their class is for braindead monkeys. I can blindfold myself and get a triple with karthus just because i pressed one ability that does way too much dmg for a global ult. EVEN ZEUS IN DOTA DOESNT FUCKING NUKE LIKE KARTHUS DOES BECAUSE THEIR IS NO AP SCALING IN DOTA YOU KNOW WHY, because they know how broken mages are when it comes to peel and poke and teamfighting.

26 Comments

The thigh guy7 votes

Maybe after we nerf bruiser items. You know. The literal most broken items on the literal most broken class in the game?

Soul Dealer3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wgnA9auH,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-25T00:32:54.453+0000)

Maybe after we nerf bruiser items. You know. The literal most broken items on the literal most broken class in the game?

You do realize that bruiser items are the most expensive items in the game right? Mages items and adc items cost nothing compared to bruiser items. Here is a fantastic example: Tiamat is a first item for a lot of bruisers and it costs 1375 gold to buy meanwhile assassins can buy dirk for 1100 and mages can buy fiendish codes for 900 or lost chapter for 1300.

The thigh guy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Soul Dealer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wgnA9auH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-25T01:16:28.535+0000)

You do realize that bruiser items are the most expensive items in the game right? Mages items and adc items cost nothing compared to bruiser items. Here is a fantastic example: Tiamat is a first item for a lot of bruisers and it costs 1375 gold to buy meanwhile assassins can buy dirk for 1100 and mages can buy fiendish codes for 900 or lost chapter for 1300.

Okay? They cost more sometimes because they are without a doubt the best items in the game.

1 bruiser item is better than a infinity edge and a zeal by miles.

Soul Dealer3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wgnA9auH,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-25T02:46:59.870+0000)

Okay? They cost more sometimes because they are without a doubt the best items in the game.

1 bruiser item is better than a infinity edge and a zeal by miles.

That’s why lost chapter is the best component item in the game and yet costs less then Tiamat. Also adc items are the best scaling items in the game and give the most ad. Also bruiser items have to be better because bruisers are normally melee champions with little to no ranged poke and need better items to deal with mobile champs and ranged poke. If they did not have good items then they could not exist in game. Please make sure you understand how this game works before you try and say bruisers and bruiser items are the best in the game especially when most pro players, including faker, agree that mages and mage items are the most over tuned things in the game.

LordGeovanni1 votes

That must be why every adc picks up bruiser items still despite that they arent locked away from it. Many thanks for your infinite wisdom

The thigh guy2 votes

{quoted}

That must be why every adc picks up bruiser items still despite that they arent locked away from it. Many thanks for your infinite wisdom

That’s why bruiser items get adcs nerfed as soon as they are buying bruiser items right?

LordGeovanni2 votes

Yes because adcs are by nature Much stronger than bruisers due to their range and thus can leverage the limited power of Bruiser items far better than brusiers can Because riot doesnt want to give adcs any downsides because adc mains cry that they die when they get nerfed because they try to play exactly the same as before they got nerfed. Adc and mage players cry harder than any other class thats why riot doesnt nerf either (to avoid mass community backlash) of them coupled with they like those lanes because they play those lanes and like to watch them in lcs.

The thigh guy2 votes

{quoted}

Yes because adcs are by nature Much stronger than bruisers due to their range and thus can leverage the limited power of Bruiser items far better than brusiers can Because riot doesnt want to give adcs any downsides because adc mains cry that they die when they get nerfed because they try to play exactly the same as before they got nerfed. Adc and mage players cry harder than any other class thats why riot doesnt nerf either (to avoid mass community backlash) of them coupled with they like those lanes because they play those lanes and like to watch them in lcs.

Oh yes. So strong that if anything farts too loud in their general direction they die without counterplay?

LordGeovanni1 votes

And anything they fart on Dies without counterplay but they have longer ranged farts

DGOT1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wgnA9auH,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-25T00:32:54.453+0000)

Maybe after we nerf bruiser items. You know. The literal most broken items on the literal most broken class in the game?

lmao ur r%%%%%ed

BlackKnightJack4 votes

Akali and rumble have taken over top along with kennen.

This is something that never happened. What are you talking about?

The thigh guy4 votes

{quoted}

This is something that never happened. What are you talking about?

It’s just top laners crying about anything that isn’t a bruiser being playable.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Dam look at all those Irelia mids.

EnigmaticMachine2 votes

{quoted}

This is something that never happened. What are you talking about?

You are obviously low elo.

BlackKnightJack2 votes

There is no tier list up right now that lists any of those champions as top tier at the moment.

Razelth2 votes

But you're gold 2. How would you know??

Inkling Commando3 votes

"can we nerf remove mage and ADC items?" fixed it for you.

3TWarrior2 votes

/s Pyke yesss, feed uzzzz more! We shall drink the salt of their tears!

funny comment over, really!?...assassins are one of the strongest classes in the game and mages have (as always) been one of the most balanced classes because they have the most counter-play options of any class and magic resist wrecks everything. If you buy item 1033 , you negate over 1400 gold of magic pen if they went the magic pen route.

if they do not build pen, magic resist royally messes with everything. you know how powerful item 3047 are? null-magic mantle has the same effect on magic damage unless they have pen items, except item 3047 is even stronger than its MR counterpart because AD and auto attack classes continue to be stronger...

if they've already got a void staff, chances are they're pretty far ahead because it's a poor pick until later unless there is a lot of MR going around

now, let's get into the more BLATANT FLAWS in your observations

Akali : she is an assassin, not a mage

Rumble : a bruiser

Gragas : a tank/bruiser hybrid initiator with fairly low damage values

if Brand is in the jungle...there is really no reason for him to be there unless it's extremely off-meta. He gets no benefit at all and any competent jungler will run him into the ground with their superior sustain and burst damage. Khazix , an actual offender from time to time, would outright destroy him

Karthus is a result of Runes Reforged(and its many imbalances) because for some reason, Riot never learns from their past mistakes that INFINITE SCALING THAT IS NOT A PART OF A CHAMPION'S KIT GETS ABUSED... He is statistically so weak that he has been almost removed from any other position in the game and only maintains his strength because he can global gank with his ult and has DECENT wave clear. He is yet another champion that any jungler who actually fights them will destroy them

How about I stop here and say that JUST BECAUSE A CHAMPION HAS AN AP RATIO, IT DOES NOT MAKE THEM A MAGE and just because a mage sees play, it does not mean that they are over-powered

EnigmaticMachine2 votes

[deleted]

3TWarrior2 votes

so the class that is almost entirely item dependent, 90% of all abilities are skillshots and can be dodged, has to depend upon mana, dies if anything can attack them, is by the majority completely immobile without the help of an item or summoner spell, HAS ACTUAL COOLDOWNS, GETS COMPLETELY MESSED UP BY MAGIC RESIST, and is countered by around half of champion types (diver, assassin, mage, support...)

in your mind, is somehow imbalanced?

I will point this out again, quote, "JUST BECAUSE A CHAMPION HAS AN AP RATIO, IT DOES NOT MAKE THEM A MAGE" akali is an AP ASSASSIN with a playstyle nothing like a mage

Ad hominem is the worst way to reinforce your arguments. Care to support yourself instead of calling me names?

LordGeovanni2 votes

No having an ap ratio and build ap items make you a mage. This is why tanks arent mages they dont build ap items. If you build more than 2 ap items you have stepped from ap bruiser to mage. IF you werent a mage you would have to be supplimenting your Ap damage build with Defense something Akali Rumble Mordekaiser Diana do not and thus cant excape the label of mage. If you want them to be assassins and not mages the ap on item 3165 needs to go down to not be mage viable and the magic pen needs to change to another item from item 3020 (do i think sorc boots will change no way in hell. but thats whats gonna need to happen to change mages from assassins and then mages also cant be stonewalling assassins with ap items that also have tons of hp item 3027 item 3151 item 3165. They also gonna need to have these on the same cooldown item 3040 item 3157

3TWarrior2 votes

mages are mid to long range ability users, primarily focus on using abilities, are inherently squishy unless a battle mage and typically do everything possible to avoid danger for themselves Anivia TwistedFate Kennen Fiddlesticks Heimerdinger etc


Assassins are highly mobile characters who pick a target and focus them, diving into the fight and then usually using a mechanic in their kit to leave, whether successful or not. Assassins are hit and run characters that capitalize on opponents openings, usually with little to no way to play around their attempt if you get caught: Zed Fizz Khazix Pyke Talon etc

Akali : hit and run tactics while diving into the opposing team(which makes her an assassin)


Bruisers are champions who do not do as much damage as glass cannon categories and instead focus on applying damage over time while taking it. Damage taken is far less important to a bruiser than a mage or an assassin: Rumble Diana


Juggernauts are in a category all their own, getting incredible power for INCREDIBLY predictable and avoidable kits. Juggernauts do not stick with one type of damage and typically it is a bad idea to engage them alone if you are not a counter to their methods and are usually weak to kiting, long range abilities and champions better than them at dueling: Illaoi Darius Chogath Garen DrMundo Trundle Volibear Typically among the most notable traits of juggernauts is their ability to sustain through damage constantly, or to otherwise benefit from the opponent letting them do as they please: Nasus Chogath etc and all juggernauts have clear windows of opportunity to attack them


#you might be able to make a case for Akali Akali being a battle mage, but she has two traits that go against the mage formula: low range abilities (very close to melee) and she is highly mobile

here's a fun question for you, are Kayle and Irelia mages? all of their abilities have AP ratios, they can easily build AP...

how about KogMaw ? Amumu ? Blitzcrank ? Elise ? Galio ? Shaco ? Zac ?

LordGeovanni1 votes

Mages typically have long range burst with long cooldowns to secure their burst pattern but they dont have that long cooldown too. Yes those champions do have a mage option besides Zac and Irelia Zac because his AP ratios are shit and Irelia because of only 2 of her spells have ap ratios and they have shit ap ratios for only being 2 spells which is why they arent meta built ap anywhere the rest all have viable mage ap builds

DBS Ronovon1 votes

Why don't we nerf Tank items, Jungle items, and Assassin items too.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Because those arent problem items. Barring item 3147. The point in the change is that Adcs and mages do too much upfront damage with no room for retaliation. (mages yes still too much upfront even if they want to be burst. P.S. Their down time isnt long enough for their burst to be differentiated from dps anyway)

Titanium701 votes

SO... you want to REDUCE the DMG meta by BUFFING ASSASSINS...

/thread?

Anyway...

I agree that Tanks should be alot better than are right now.

  • Not more impactfull - they are - but they should focus alot more on their actual job. Less DMG, ALOT more durability, Items that makes them unignorable (when exactly did you see the last Frozen Heart? Or an Iceborn on anyone other than EZ), FAR less vulnerable to penetration.

I agree Supports have to much budget in general.

  • Ap supports always existed and this is fine. But in earlier days they were clear feat or famine. A decent option for midlaners who had to support but not much more tha that. More often than not they needed to trade Vision for DMG. This was completely removed from the game.

I agree that towers still feel quite useless.

  • The DMG is to blame for that to a degree, but mobility is the core problem here. To often I've seen Champions diving towers doing their full combo and getting away with only a single tower shot fired. There is FAR to much mobility, FAR to little anti-mobility! (Hey, why not make Randuins shockwave GROUND affected Champions for a while?)

The Anti-Mage bias however is just wrong. Neither do mages take over every role nor are they uncounterable. The mana changes made their lanes super vulnerable, they have no form of sustain what so ever and MR is BY FAR the best defensive stat in the game. A single MR items makes pretty much everyone able to 1v1 a fed mage with little to no effort.

Mages are without a doubt they biggest and most diverse group of Champions out there. I mean you list Akali and Gragas as mages??? But even without those the class is huge. Obviously there will always be some viable ones for each role in the game. Funny enough.. their choice of (viable) Items is easily the WORST in the game. Yes indeed, you see the same build on every god damn AP-Scaling Champion out there - do you think people LIKE that? OFC NOT!

What's true is we have to many mages at Supp. That's annoying. For those playing against them, for those playing with them, for those who actually enjoyed this guys in midlane! They contribute alot to the DMG-Creep, they invite mobility-creep to grow. Games with traditional Supps in it - especially the Tank supps - feel SO MUCH BETTER to play it's hilarious.

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