Tank meta was the lesser of two evils

EnigmaticMachine·Jun 16, 2019·50 votes·12,754 views

I would rather die by a tank over a long period of time than just get deleted by runes on a mage with one item. In the tank meta there were ways to escape their overtime damage. Now it feels like if I dont get fed or if one person dies 4 times in the beginning of a match it is over. Matches are only lasting 20 minutes to 25 tops. That is shorter or on par with aram games. This game has no more passion in it. It is all about money and its disgusting. You lose if you dont play into a bruiser or mage now.

60 Comments

Serika ZeroJun 16, 201925 votes

You want tank meta? Here, go play top TahmKench , see how much fun it is? And I bet other players would love playing against your tank ;)

sarcasm aside, tank meta is one of the most awful experiences you can ever have and TahmKench is a reminder of that

Velzard of KozJun 16, 20191 votes

Plus OP's point is that he'd die "over time". While he'd get CCd into afk state while the rest of enemy team oneshots him anyway.

Jeddy017Jun 16, 20194 votes

Every meta is one of the most awful experiences you can have. For every meta, someone says X meta is the worst & prefers Y meta. Which, big surprise, is the worst for another person.

All meta sucks. How much each meta sucks just depends on what you like playing & what you dislike playing against.

Serika ZeroJun 16, 20193 votes

Not quite, I'm an assassin player.

There's protect the adc meta (awful for assassisns), but still playable. Enchanters meta (awful for assassins), but still playable. Control mages mid (awful for ap assassins, great for ad ones). There's even the gank lv1-2 meta where it sucks to play as any lane (hi hi twich/ezreal jungle here i've come to ruin your day). There's bruiser meta (like when darius and morde got reworked). etc.

But out of all those. Tank meta is the most utterly broken piece of shit this game ever had. You either have assassins building tank and being better than bruisers (due to mobility) and close to impossible to kill (hi hi tank akali/ekko here, do you miss me?) or you have tanks that just run you over, like a bulldozer, and there's nothing you can do. As they will be to tanky to kill and they will kill you.

What's the benefits of current meta over a tank meta? Well, even if someone got ahead like they killed their lane opponent 10 times in 11 minutes. If they misplay, if they misposition, if they don't pay attention or simply put, when they make mistakes, you can punish that and kill them. This won't happen in the tank meta. When the tank meta gets rolling, there's no stopping. Yes, you won't lose in 15-18 minutes by all enemy lanes stomping and being able to take down structures like it can happen right now if everyone in the enemy team hard wins. But you also, the team that's behind, it will lose. Its just a matter of time.

IainG10Jun 17, 20191 votes

Of course you hate the tank meta; your an assassin, and tanks counter you. You exist to stop the squishy on the other team from having any fun. You are every bit as toxic as the tank in terms of fun for others, and the fact that there's at least one assassin (or a bruiser pretending to be one because that's viable atm) every game is a serious negative. At least that tank can be fairly reliably cc-locked; Talon for example is just gonna come over whatever wall he wants and remove a squishy before you've even moved your cursor to him. Pyke is immune to punishment. Zed has his shadow swap; Akali disappears into a cloud and yeets herself backwards over a wall. Diana (until they actually fix her) is stickier than epoxy resin; Blue Kayn is almost as sticky and isn't affected by walls....

You wanna know why most Supports these days each have as much cc as the rest of the team combined? It's because of assassins (and bruisers with their items).

Serika ZeroJun 17, 20191 votes

tanks do not counter assassins. Supports do, in particular enchanters (lulu, janna, etc)

Ardent meta is what counters assassins and assassins where still playable (albeit very difficult) during that meta.

Tank meta is a shitfest. I suggest you look for some tank ekko or tank akali gameplay, so see how 'weak' assassins were during tank meta. Seriously, we had that a few years back, just take a look at it....... just take a look and see if you want THAT to come back.

edit: here's an adc perspective on the "tank meta": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDNbySDaNj4 you know, the adcs, the ones that would "counter tanks" accounting to you. Seriously, just research a bit, tank meta was disgusting. And tham is just a reminder to everyone of that.

But if you ACTUALLY ENJOY fighting Tham. Then you'll enjoy tank meta and i'm wrong.

RagnaveilJun 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juB4OEEr,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-16T05:41:22.027+0000)

You want tank meta? Here, go play top , see how much fun it is? And I bet other players would love playing against your tank ;)

sarcasm aside, tank meta is one of the most awful experiences you can ever have and is a reminder of that

And its a reminder that Riot really doesnt care about the class as a whole, which was what birthed the "unfun" tanks during that meta. But lets not forget who created it: ADCs.

RagnaveilJun 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juB4OEEr,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-16T05:41:22.027+0000)

You want tank meta? Here, go play top , see how much fun it is? And I bet other players would love playing against your tank ;)

sarcasm aside, tank meta is one of the most awful experiences you can ever have and is a reminder of that

Don't forget Tank Karma (aka the thing replacing Kench right now).

JackMcCarryJun 16, 201923 votes

In the tank meta there were ways to escape their overtime damage.

That's not the tank meta was, what you're describing is a reasonable balance state.

Tank meta was when Seju would CC lock you and you'd be dead by the end of her CC lock while being unable to retaliate unless you were vayne.

Sewer SideJun 16, 20194 votes

{quoted}

That's not the tank meta was, what you're describing is a reasonable balance state.

Tank meta was when Seju would CC lock you and you'd be dead by the end of her CC lock while being unable to retaliate unless you were vayne.

Like Sej currently does, and it’s fucking bullshit

JackMcCarryJun 16, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juB4OEEr,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-16T09:43:19.874+0000)

Like Sej currently does, and it’s fucking bullshit

Now add Zac, Maoki, Sion and Cho'gath to the mix aswell as tank ekko and tank fizz. Congrats! Tank meta is back.

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juB4OEEr,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-16T10:00:18.370+0000)

Tank meta physically can’t happen with Conquerer Lord Dominik’s Mortal reminder Bork Black cleaver Void staff Liandries

All these things besides conquerer and current liandries was present even back in season 4

RagnaveilJun 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Now add Zac, Maoki, Sion and Cho'gath to the mix aswell as tank ekko and tank fizz. Congrats! Tank meta is back.

All these things besides conquerer and current liandries was present even back in season 4

But they got changes in 8.11 that then killed tanks. Any % pen was changed to total in that change (it only mentions LDR and the LW line, but Void got changed, Darius E and Garen E got changed, anything and any champ with that stat in their kit got shadow changed. The only person who didn't get the change was Yasuo (for good reason))

MalignMetalJun 16, 20193 votes

item 3151 reworked to be better vs tanks item 3135 given more penetration item 3036 & item 3033 was changed from bonus to total armor pen

Shits changed, not sure why your being disingenuous.

JackMcCarryJun 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

reworked to be better vs tanks given more penetration & was changed from bonus to total armor pen

Shits changed, not sure why your being disingenuous.

Like i said, liandries was WAS reworked, Void staff was buffed, not by a lot, but still buffed, so my mistake.

Lord dominiks and mortal reminder gave bonus armor pen AFTER the adc rework, that adc rework was AFTER the tank meta, if you werent around back then, before last whisper was split into 2 items, it used to be 1 item that gave total armor pen the same as current lord dominiks regards.

So no, back at the original tank meta lord dominiks (last whisper back then) was the same as current one. Look it up

GinoSoldierJun 16, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juB4OEEr,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-16T09:43:19.874+0000)

Like Sej currently does, and it’s fucking bullshit

Sej most definitely currently does not if she builds tank properly, even if you throw in a Sheen/Trinity. She would need two rotations at least and her kit isn't hard to dodge whatsoever. Maybe you should consider investing in some health, or reconsider facing an enemy while already half dead.

Sewer SideJun 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Sej most definitely currently does not if she builds tank properly, even if you throw in a Sheen/Trinity. She would need two rotations at least and her kit isn't hard to dodge whatsoever. Maybe you should consider investing in some health, or reconsider facing an enemy while already half dead.

Maybe you should consider getting good as Sej if you can’t do this, because she is 1 rotating squishies with Cinderhulk and Warmogs.

Just build health when she has % HP damage :crying:

MalignMetalJun 16, 201916 votes

A Tank meta CANNOT exist anymore. Conqueror exists.

People who are afraid of a Tank meta are 100% FUCKING stupid

CrazyMonkeyCZJun 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

A Tank meta CANNOT exist anymore. Conqueror exists.

People who are afraid of a Tank meta are 100% FUCKING stupid

If someone thinks that there is something certain in this game, that's mistake. Everything is changable in this game, tank meta will come, just wait.

MalignMetalJun 16, 201916 votes

8 years later

The thigh guyJun 16, 20198 votes

{quoted}

If someone thinks that there is something certain in this game, that's mistake. Everything is changable in this game, tank meta will come, just wait.

Tank meta physically can’t happen with Conquerer Lord Dominik’s Mortal reminder Bork Black cleaver Void staff Liandries

Every champion have some bs than includes the words. Ahem. %hp damage %missing hp damage True damage %armor shred %mr shred

RagnaveilJun 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juB4OEEr,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-16T10:00:18.370+0000)

Tank meta physically can’t happen with Conquerer Lord Dominik’s Mortal reminder Bork Black cleaver Void staff Liandries

Every champion have some bs than includes the words. Ahem. %hp damage %missing hp damage True damage %armor shred %mr shred

Exactly, also my favorite is % Max Health True damage, a already proven unhealthy mechanic that is still allowed to exist.

RavenMagusJun 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=juB4OEEr,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-16T10:00:18.370+0000)

Tank meta physically can’t happen with Conquerer Lord Dominik’s Mortal reminder Bork Black cleaver Void staff Liandries

Every champion have some bs than includes the words. Ahem. %hp damage %missing hp damage True damage %armor shred %mr shred

Tank meta doesn't care about that shit.

Great, you can kill a tank over a period of time. That's cool. But in tank meta, building those means you're not tanky yourselves, and tanks have the damage to steamroll you before you can do that.

That's what tank meta was. It wasn't just tanks being impossible to kill. It was tanks being impossible to kill and also wrecking your face with their own damge. And with the way Riot prefers buffing damage on any tank that's underpowered... I'm scared.

Hencho101Jun 16, 20192 votes

That's like saying Tank meta can't exist because Vayne exists, or BORK exists. People say thing's can't exist, such as Sion going mid, which happened, or anything other than marksman can't play bot, where at one point marksman were almost unplayable in bot. Just because that's what it seems, things will get found out, and suddenly you're back to the tank meta

MalignMetalJun 16, 20191 votes

My definition of a Tank meta - one where Solely Tanks determine the outcome of matches and Damage is ineffectual against them.

RagnaveilJun 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

A Tank meta CANNOT exist anymore. Conqueror exists.

People who are afraid of a Tank meta are 100% FUCKING stupid

Idk why you got downvoted. You are right. People who probably downvoted are probably the same people that never buy % Pen when its absurdly OP right now.

MalignMetalJun 16, 20191 votes

They can downvote the truth, still won't change it.

AR URFJun 16, 201912 votes

Aatrox players taking ignite top now because they know if they can successfully land 3 q's or whatever that don't all necessary have to be crits. I can just ignite auto and win the trade at level 1-2.

MakarakarnJun 16, 201911 votes

You can say that all you want, but as someone who played during tank meta, it is not the "lesser of two evils". The two aren't even fucking comparable. They're both evil sure, but damage meta is a side villian, tank meta is the damn overlord. I remember quite vividly back in those days that you could almost 100% predict the outcome of a game based on who had more tanks, I'm not joking in the fucking slightest. Me and my friends actually got a lot of laughs out of how right it was when we played.

MalignMetalJun 16, 20192 votes

And the items and Keystones available today prevent such a reoccurrence

SOOO BUFF Defenses and lengthen time to kill

General Esdeath Jun 16, 20197 votes

Just got killed by a Twitch as Zed

The assassin was outassassined by the fed ADC

But we don't want assassins! It's the ADC meta boys! Don't wanna ruin that!

DisembarkJun 16, 20195 votes

??? So you should be able to kill twitch simply because you’re Zed. Him being fed or anything else shouldn’t matter.

General Esdeath Jun 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

??? So you should be able to kill twitch simply because you’re Zed. Him being fed or anything else shouldn’t matter.

Assassins rely on burst, ADCs rely on sustained damage. If we're both fed, the assassin SHOULD be dealing damage faster. The only case where he should kill me is if he lives with 100 HP and then my Death Mark pops him after he uses his E on me. Imagine if a tank like Maokai was able to beat Ashe in an auto attack fight. There's a basic cycle for balance.

Burst>Sustain>Tank>Burst

Burst champs beat sustain damage champs, while sustain damage champs shred tanks and kite them, because their burst champs can't kill the tanks without wasting a lot of time waiting for cooldowns.

The entire teamJun 16, 20196 votes

Fun fact. It’s technically a tank meta now. Initiation tank junglers like Sejuani, Amumu and Zac are the ones causing a lot of high ELO plays. Plus there are tanky AP items coming out soon. And the best top laner is Tahm Kench atm, who is a tank.

And it’s clear that someone just got bodied by a burst combo mage, and isn’t willing to admit it. At least the burst mage is killable, compared to Tank Ekko And Tank Fizz, who can both one shot you, and be frustratingly hard to kill, right?

ZertryxJun 16, 20196 votes

Yeh games gotten to the point that 1 mistake mid / late game = insta death because the damage is so high and resistance is so low that 1 skill shot = 80% hp and that this games "Teamfights" are who hit who first ... its to the point that i can play like 1 game a day AT MOST before feeling frustrated ... win or loss just too much effort not even fun anymore

AbiwonKenabiJun 16, 20194 votes

I think people are misremembering what tank meta was like. Like sure, there were some standout annoyances like bruiser Fizz or Ekko, Maokai was a little too good, but tank meta was more like: tanks are solid, so ADCs become better since someone must shred them; control mages become better because tanks and ADCs excel in teamfights and so do they; both enchanter supports and engage supports are useful, for peel or teamfights; assassins are useful because being able to get in, assassinate a target and get out is really good when your team's biggest problem is the enemy ADC; and certain bruiser-y top laners like Renekton, Darius, etc, are decent since they do well vs top lane tanks.

It wasn't that "tanks were broken, they can do everything, tank meta". It was "tanks are the strongest class right now, but the others are strong enough that every class is a little useful." That is my recollection of ~S2-S3.

Seriously, I can't believe Boards complains about all the damage then turns around and lambastes someone for thinking a tank meta might make that better. Tank meta doesn't mean "tanks are unkillable gods and deal a ton of damage" (although an unbalanced tank meta might be like that), tank meta means certain Champions who build tank don't just get creamed, they can actually survive all the damage. I'm assuming different people are saying "too much damage" and "tank meta bad" but I find it odd that it seems so disliked to the same audience that absolutely HATES the high damage numbers.

IainG10Jun 17, 20192 votes

Boards aren't referring to S2/3; they are referring to what came immediately after the Juggernaut Update. Damage creep was just beginning to go completely off the rails, and those tanks that can REALLY take a beating were beginning to give it back as well. Bruisers and Assassins had a very hard time, but ADCs loved it.

The thing is, all those tanks were every bit as vulnerable to cc back then as they are now, whereas now if you fluff your cc the thing that gets in your face can and will kill you before you have a chance to try again. I cannot think of a single tank that's harder to cc than any assassin; sure Sion and Malph have their ults; but outside of that tiny window you can keep them static forever. Talon can come from anywhere, Fizz troll-poles over everything, Zed's gonna Youmoo's into WR range then step back out, Kata can Shunpo forever as long as she's thrown a dagger somewhere for it, Pyke and Akali you have to find first (and then half the damage in the game can't be applied to Akali in her cloud). And then Edge of Night/Banshee's give their respective users at least one free failed dodge in their gap close.

SylaelqueJun 16, 20193 votes

Are you sure is this game fun? Because TahmKench and Mordekaiser don't think same. Meanwhile Garen and Darius just laughing at your skill... And Tryndamere , Olaf , Trundle gives you no chance to outplay. Rammus is just a bad joke in the jungle. Is tank meta fun? Definitely disagree. [sg-ahri-3]

Moody PJun 16, 20197 votes

Not a single one of these champions would appear in tank meta

DisembarkJun 16, 20192 votes

Except most of them would...? Trundle always appears in tank metas. Garen and Darius are actually pretty decent against tanks because of their armour shred and/or true damage.

FSRERJun 16, 20192 votes

Since when is Garen good against Tanks? There is literally not a single tank in the game that does not beat Garen in lane and in teamfights because they have CC and Garen doesn't have shit.

IainG10Jun 17, 20191 votes

Trundle might, because of his ult. Often used to see him picked into Nasus for that exact reason. The others, yeah, any good tank should beat them; just cc and torment (except Olaf, you just outbrawl that whilst wearing a Thornmail).....

What all of those mentioned are good at is running up to something and smacking it down in a few hits; they just don't bother disguising that this is what they're doing, and they can stick well enough that they don't need their own cc for their time-to-kill.

KeshaunJun 16, 20192 votes

yeah man I miss when tanks were relevant because games felt so much better every champion has some sort of % damage now and damage items just seem more efficient than resistances now

TzQGRUST39Jun 16, 20191 votes

Tank meta is the worst meta... except for all the others.

fire263Jun 16, 20191 votes

Uh, no. Tank meta did not mean drawn out fights, it literally just meant if you weren't a tank you would be getting blown up by tanks while CC locked so you can't do anything. Tanks were essentially what bruisers are today, unkillable and somehow did a shit ton of damage and having much more CC than your average bruiser. Remember chogath and how he could have like 5k health but still press one button and kill someone? Yea, I don't want to go back to a meta like that. Sejuani ulting you and killing you before you can even move, maokai fucking healing through every form of damage, bot lane dominated by tank supports, none of that was fun. Think of Tahm Kench today, nearly unkillable while still shredding through health bars as if he was an assassin. It was that but essentially done by every tank champion in the game.

SaezioJun 16, 20191 votes

ahahahah. 20-25 mins? have you even checked average game times? (surrenders not included for obv reasons)

Nea104Jun 16, 20191 votes

Iirc, "tank meta" was more likely tankish champions dealing lots of damage over time. That's not what a "tank" is. I don't think this game has ever had proper tanks, besides maybe Braum.

And btw, kids enjoy bursts. Riot is never gonna balance its game between offence and defence (even if they were able to).

Modl Ryden lJun 16, 20191 votes

I disagree, Tank meta enforces the fact that if you do not play a 2x tank comp, you're guaranteed to lose.

Other metas don't require the necessity to play certain roles but instead encourages to play tank when the situation fits.

iDarkWindJun 16, 20191 votes

You and people that are upvoting this clearly have no idea of how tank meta really was. You guys can complain as much as you want about this meta, but not a single meta was bad as tank meta, except for ardent censor meta perhaps.

U R Good At GameJun 17, 20191 votes

Bruh, your account doesn't even go back to season 5 what are you on about tank meta was better? Tank meta was nothing but who ever had a 2/3 tank comp won. If you both had tanks, it was who ever had the AOE CC tanks. The other thing people seem to forget about that season is that you didn't get to play the game more because their were tanks. You were cced until you died so you played the game just as much being one shot.

Typical Season 5 Game Assuming both teams actually wanted to win and played double/triple tank:

Sion Sejuani Annie Vayne Leona

Malphite Amumu Anivia Caitlyn Alistar

^ Yeah this looks like a lot of fucking fun to me. Afking for 20 seconds while you die unable to move you character is sooooooooo much better than being one shot and instantly being sent to gy so you can get back into game. Oh yeah, let's not forget the typical game was 40m and all of the 40 minutes of struggle was just decided by who snagged the baron last.

Yeah man, that's so fun.