Riven isnt just a problem in the NA servers

EnigmaticMachine·Aug 3, 2019·28 votes·10,931 views

Riot is telling us that players in the NA are not good enough or matter enough to nerf something that is purposefully driving a ranked LP stonewall of riven mains to keep better people from climbing. They really only care about Koreans because they are better and yes they are, but to use that as an excuse to make a whole server a living nightmare to play in is just not justifiable. Its a cop out really. Don't beat around the bush Riot. Don't blame or use a portion of your player-base as an excuse for your incompetence to make the game fun anymore or nerf something that will make a server more bearable. Currently Riven is the best top laner for anything above diamond elo play. When I mean by the best it is either play her or ban her or play kennen which is her only counter rn or she just bans kennen and you are royal screwed. This is also bruiser meta which I think is worse for the game than tank meta.

53 Comments

Gamer GalladeAug 3, 201914 votes

the main issue i see with riven is her Cooldowns and when they "nerfed" her shield cool down and buffed her q along the way.

It shows that it didnt solved the issue, hell when they unnecessary buffed Poppy's W. it was idiotic and shows how completely biased they are towards Riven.

Seriously, they need to either nerf her damage or nerf her cooldowns. she is just too safe in terms damage and mobility.

IP MasquerenaAug 4, 20197 votes

Or remove Spear of Shojin?

RagnaveilAug 4, 20196 votes

Those changes and remove spear. She wont get hurt much by Spear being removed, but it would fix abominations like Jax and Ren in the late game.

ŚhunpoAug 5, 20191 votes

I don't even build Spear on Riven atm. Not when Essence Reaver, Black Cleaver and Death's Dance are so good. If anything Spear is a luxury item for me.

RagnaveilAug 5, 20191 votes

Exactly, thats why I mentioned she doesnt get hurt much by it being removed. Rather fix other issues while im at it by removing it

ŚhunpoAug 6, 20191 votes

Yeah, can't have Rengar Renekton Jax turning into URF mode on a whim and 1v5ing.

thefatlazycatAug 3, 20195 votes

this isn't a bruiser meta, it's a burst meta, aka assassins and mages. It is true though that a tank meta would be much better

Ahri BakaAug 3, 201910 votes

{quoted}

this isn't a bruiser meta, it's a burst meta, aka assassins and mages. It is true though that a tank meta would be much better

Mages meta? What ?

saphireflame123Aug 3, 20192 votes

No tank meta was awful. Tanks bursting everyone when being too tanky to kill was not okay.

Ahri BakaAug 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No tank meta was awful. Tanks bursting everyone when being too tanky to kill was not okay.

I think you replied to the wrong person

DangerousOreoAug 3, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitsune Kawaii,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4q7AmjW9,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-03T21:57:04.128+0000)

Mages meta? What ?

yeah mage itemization is broken what do u want? item 3285 > item 3147 item 3102 > item 3814 then all this bullshit that AD assasins dont have item 3157 item 3030 item 3152 item 3148 but nope these boards are full of mage and tank mains crying about how Zed is somehow op

IP MasquerenaAug 4, 20196 votes

Let's see what AD can do for defense against AP:

item 3111 item 3139 item 3026 item 3812 item 3814 item 3156

Now what defensive items do mages have: item 3157

So you cry that mages have a tad better utility items and a decent offensive item (that's 200 gold more expensive than Duskblade, just fyi and can't be procked multiple times in a fight/skirmish/gank) when AD is overloaded when it comes to defensive items.

Tho when it comes to utility, let's also not forged that AD can get both %AR pen and anti-heal on the same item with item 3033 , have a much cheaper anti-heal item with item 3123 , also there's item 3078 and item 3071 that AD assassins also build if they want some beef, have a component item that gives them %AR pen with item 3035 . If Mages want anti-heal they need a complete item, if they want %MR pen, they need a complete item, also, all AD assassins that want waveclear can build item 3077 , mages have nothing for that.

Also, mages lose a shit ton of damage if they chose to go Tabi instead of Sorcs, while ADs lose next to nothing by going Mercs, heck, for any AD other than Marksmen, the lose is 0, Marksmen lose some attack speed.

RagnaveilAug 4, 20193 votes

AD defensive against AP: item 3139 item 3156 . 0 invulnerability and a heavily neutered shield. AP defensive: item 3157 item 3152 item 3102 . Mini dash on a 2700 G item, Invulnerability, and a spellshield that doesn't need the item to be pressed for it to prime.

And the argument about anti-heal is pointless. You have anti-healing on Morello, a core item I see on most mages. Waveclear argument is also pointless. All mages need is item 3802 item 3285 item 3152 and they can waveclear for days without running out of mana. AD assassins that are not Zed however run out of mana really fast when they have to use waveclear spells.

IP MasquerenaAug 4, 20194 votes

Zhonya doesn't allow you to move either, so after that you're done.

Very few mages actually build protobelt, heck, no actual mage builds it, only AP Assassins and AP bruiser build it.

Banshee's cool down is reset whenever you take damage and it's been be everything, throw a random spell at them from 1850 range Zed has for harass and by the time Zed's W is back, Banshee is still on cool down. Not my fault you use big spells when it's active.

The anti-heal was a good point. AD champs that need it just toss out 800 gold and have it early, AP champs need the whole 3k gold item to get the anti-heal.

Also, the only laners that are AD assassins that are not Zed and have mana are Qiyana and Talon, Qiyana doesn't have mana problems, I play her a lot so I know, while Talon simply gets a Tiamat, W + Tiamat proc + 1/2 auto clears a whole wave, so it's no big mana loss.

And again, mages don't build Protobelt.

Also, don't lowball your AD items, Mercurial not only removes a CC when you want it to do so while also reducing further CC, which I'd rather have instead of Banshee, but Maw gives you a shield when you take magic damage and it's passive gives you lifesteal from all sources of damage while your in combat, spells, passives, items, magic or physical, doesn't matter how you damage an enemy, you're healed off of it. Banshee gets hit by 1 spell and it's gone for the fight and you can't even chose to block with it or not.

Aatrox AirlinesAug 4, 20192 votes

ad for defense against ap: GA

What?

IP MasquerenaAug 4, 20192 votes

I mean, it's anti death. You're not buying the item for it's armor, you're buying the item for it's 2nd life passive.

Darkstar AnnieAug 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Let's see what AD can do for defense against AP:

Now what defensive items do mages have:

So you cry that mages have a tad better utility items and a decent offensive item (that's 200 gold more expensive than Duskblade, just fyi and can't be procked multiple times in a fight/skirmish/gank) when AD is overloaded when it comes to defensive items.

Tho when it comes to utility, let's also not forged that AD can get both %AR pen and anti-heal on the same item with , have a much cheaper anti-heal item with , also there's and that AD assassins also build if they want some beef, have a component item that gives them %AR pen with . If Mages want anti-heal they need a complete item, if they want %MR pen, they need a complete item, also, all AD assassins that want waveclear can build , mages have nothing for that.

Also, mages lose a shit ton of damage if they chose to go Tabi instead of Sorcs, while ADs lose next to nothing by going Mercs, heck, for any AD other than Marksmen, the lose is 0, Marksmen lose some attack speed.

Very interesting points. As a mage main, I can feel these. When Zed or Yasuo mid simply gets a hexdrinker, its pretty much over for me. I can get Seeker's Arm Band and a Catalyst, but damage output and kill potential is now reduced further rather than just going needlessly and a blasting for nearly the same cost. And have to farm for Seekers Arm band it to be useful. But either way, you return to lane, take 1 small poke 5 seconds later get immediately zeroed.

I am lead to believe there is a strict pecking order.

Mage kills ADC
ADC kills Tank
Tank kills Mage
Assassin kills all above
Bruiser kills all above

IP MasquerenaAug 4, 20191 votes

Getting a Seeker's vs Zed is a win-win for him unless he's bad, in which case, it can still be a win-win for him if he has a jungler (I've had a 0-4 Zed one shot me through a stacked Seeker's and Tabi after 5 consecutive ganks from his jungler). I say it's a win-win because if you get Seeker's, you'll have mana issues so he can just outpush you and roam easily or simply outfarm you as you lose farm to tower, and if you get a Lost Chapter, he can easily kill you, and sadly, it's just for Zed.

Getting a Seeker's vs Talon or Qiyana helps immensively.

DangerousOreoAug 3, 20192 votes

{quoted}

this isn't a bruiser meta, it's a burst meta, aka assassins and mages. It is true though that a tank meta would be much better

we get it bro you only play shen

EnigmaticMachineAug 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

we get it bro you only play shen

Yeah because he is one of the few only balanced champs rn even in pro play

Darkstar AnnieAug 4, 20194 votes

How does only Kennen counter for Riven? Surely there must at least be some other close skill matchups? Fiora? Pantheon? Olaf? Jax?

YäätoAug 4, 20192 votes

People are brain damaged is why. Jax can literally just outscale. Fiora can outskill. Pantheon, unfortunately, is turned into a farm lane where no one actually gets a lead. Olaf can be outscaled by playing it like that pantheon matchup. There's a lot of Riven counters where she actually can't play the lane and simply pressures the game in other ways. Riven isn't OP because of her "overtuned" numbers or "low cooldown" skills. She's just super versatile that can fit into any team comp and accomplish the job of just about any class. Good initiation with flash up, backline disrupter, great peeler. Riven has a lot of ways in which she can influence the game that other champs don't have. People are just small brained and thinks it's her numbers/lack of counters that make her broken. It's her versatility that really makes her strong.

RagnaveilAug 4, 20192 votes

She's had this versatility in the past and no one had an issue with it. So no, its her numbers.

3TWarriorAug 4, 20191 votes

actually...her versatility was a huge issue in the past

problem is, everything else started to match it or exceed it

in top lane, she's still one of if not the most overloaded champ/s (2 hard CC, a shield, 4 dashes, a high damage ult, all of her attacks except her shield are area of effect)

thing about riven, she's bad, but there's usually worse out there(like counters or champions that are absurd even for other lanes)

now she's overtuned with Spear of Shojin involved. It makes it where she can pull off even more combos than normal

RagnaveilAug 4, 20191 votes

I mean her with 40% cdr does the same thing right now: Pulling off more combos than normal. All thanks to the "nerf" she received. Her numbers need to be hit, end of story.

3TWarriorAug 4, 20191 votes

I don't disagree. There is not much point to a "nerf" if it is to something non-essential and gives a compensation buff along with it

the cooldown reduction itself though was kind of standard. I think it's always been that way, but she only became a real problem recently and I do not remember much about riven, so I could be wrong about that

EnigmaticMachineAug 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

People are brain damaged is why. Jax can literally just outscale. Fiora can outskill. Pantheon, unfortunately, is turned into a farm lane where no one actually gets a lead. Olaf can be outscaled by playing it like that pantheon matchup. There's a lot of Riven counters where she actually can't play the lane and simply pressures the game in other ways. Riven isn't OP because of her "overtuned" numbers or "low cooldown" skills. She's just super versatile that can fit into any team comp and accomplish the job of just about any class. Good initiation with flash up, backline disrupter, great peeler. Riven has a lot of ways in which she can influence the game that other champs don't have. People are just small brained and thinks it's her numbers/lack of counters that make her broken. It's her versatility that really makes her strong.

The fact she has no real weakness early game and actually outscales late game shows your lack of understanding for game knowledge and the fact that games are only lasting 25 minutes top with how broken her kit is from jungle ganks shows that even further. Just dont comment if you are spewing horseshit. Get your facts straight

iDaAdrianAug 4, 20191 votes

Poppy counters the shit out of her. You cant kill her but she can easily burst you. All she has to do is W, it grounds now so as riven you're just fucked and can't use any of your abilities except w

saphireflame123Aug 3, 20193 votes

Riven is only strong if she gets fed, and she has plenty of counters.

Romans VI XXIIIAug 4, 20191 votes

LMFAO

saphireflame123Aug 4, 20194 votes

Its true. Completely true.

I've won against Riven about every time I played against her, even when the enemy mained her.

I've won as Riven a few times because I got a lead.

She can easily be beaten. Just play Darius Renekton TahmKench Tryndamere Garen DrMundo Fiora , etc.

IP MasquerenaAug 4, 20191 votes

Telling people to counter pick and get better instead of crying?

You got balls man, here's a +1.

Romans VI XXIIIAug 4, 20191 votes

Using EQUALLY skilled players.

Darius Renekton Fiora do not counter Riven, if anything Riven is slightly ahead in these match ups.

DrMundo Tryndamere Garen only hope of winning is having your jungler camp/gank alot.

TahmKench is on par with her right know, but does not flat out beat her.

RagnaveilAug 4, 20191 votes

Idk about TK though, the man has been gutted and served for a feast.

Aatrox AirlinesAug 4, 20192 votes

Renekton now beats her early but is screwed later

Riven smashes darius

Riven outscales fiora while not losing too hard early, ultimately a skill matchup

Tryndamere... Depends on rng

Mundi gets bursted in all ins once riven spends 800 gold

Riven loses to garen early unless she takes aftershock but beats him after lanung phase no matter the keystone

Kench used to beat riven whule he was overpowered but then again, he used to beat everyone. Hes pretty much dogshit rn

saphireflame123Aug 4, 20191 votes

I've yet to see a Riven beat a Darius in lane...

3TWarriorAug 4, 20191 votes

I disagree about mundo. He wouldn't win, but he wouldn't lose either, especially if Riven tried to engage. it'd be a neutral lane of back and forth farm with as you say, the junglers making a difference

renekton would probably be the only champion they listed that could pull ahead, but even then it's up to the riven to not disrupt his combos

looking at lolalytics, renekton appears to be one of her harder counters at only a 47% win rate for her and somehow, Quinn pulls ahead of that

Mundo's biggest weakness is probably that he's poor in general right now. He can only focus one target at a time and has no hard CC, so where this comes into play is that even in a neutral lane, Riven out-scales him

saphireflame123Aug 4, 20191 votes

Everytime I've seen Darius v Riven , he wrecks her.

Renekton does counter Riven, especially with his shield breaker/stun. All he needs to do is get a little bit of fury, e, q, w, auto, e, auto, and there goes 3/4 of her health without her being able to do anything.

Fiora indeed doesn't counter Riven, but if she plays smart, she can destroy her.

DrMundo can snipe her down, because its easy to hit Riven through her mobility with skill shots, and his q does a lot of damage. If she engages, she takes damage from his e and w, and his ult regenerates all the damage he took from her and more.

Tryndamere post-6 beats her in every fight. If he has a lot of attack speed/cooldown reduction, she's screwed.

Garen can easily beat her. Take grasp and tenacity rune and you've got yourself a free lane. If she gets close, silence her with q while dealing heavy damage with it and grasp, then combo it with e or wait until everything of hers is down before using e. Ult is an execution, so as long as you can deal a lot of damage to her (which grasp garen definitely can do), she's a goner, even if she shields (just wait till its down). W reduces cc by a lot, so just use it when she is either mid 3rd q or when you know she is about to w. It will also make her ult not deal much damage at all, and after a fight post-11 you will just heal back up everything.

TahmKench beats her if she doesn't play around his passive. If she gets too close with at least 1 stack on her, he will get a lot of free damage off on her. As him, just keep beating her in damage trades. Don't engage, wait for her to do so. If she doesn't, then you get a lot of free farm.

Aatrox AirlinesAug 4, 20191 votes

Biggest dogshit ive heard today

saphireflame123Aug 4, 20191 votes

Well then watch people like me always beat Riven mains :)

Fisher No ChainsAug 4, 20193 votes

There’s a guy in my friend list that has been hardstuck P4 for seasons. This season he magically got to D2 one tricking Riven and maintaining a 63% WR with her over more than 200 games.

I can’t link his op.gg, but hey that’s how good Riven has been this season. Literal definition of free elo.

IP MasquerenaAug 4, 20191 votes

Video or didn't happen.

Fisher No ChainsAug 5, 20191 votes

I don't have a video, but you can check for yourself here

saphireflame123Aug 4, 20191 votes

Guess the enemies are either bad or play someone Riven beats.

3TWarriorAug 4, 20191 votes

that...sounds more like boosting unless they changed their entire playstyle for the game

Fisher No ChainsAug 5, 20191 votes

I don't think it's boosting tbh. He has played different champs lately but whenever he picks Riven he basically ends up winning.

Honestly I think people can improve at the game, and that's for sure, but if after 5 season you never get out of Plat and suddenly you start playing one of the most boosted champions in the game rn and get to almost-master then it means the champ itself has major issues.

LPelican Aug 4, 20191 votes

riven = lose unless you are a god on the chinese server so...

Aatrox AirlinesAug 4, 20191 votes

Except that she has 55% wr masters+ na lol

LPelican Aug 5, 20191 votes

then fkn get good NA

wait ur eune LOL

enshineAug 6, 20191 votes

riven doesn't even have a positive winrate in 85% the playerbase's games

people just cry about her because they saw a hashinshin video once

same reason people cry about rengar. doublelift said he was broken once, so that MUST also apply to silver games! nevermind the fact that rengar has a 47% winrate in their elo...