Can we stop pretending rylais isn't busted right now?

HateDaddy·Aug 23, 2016·66 votes·3,954 views

Can this item please get a meaningful nerf in some way?

It's being build on almost every Mage not named Lissandra. It double dips into hp/AP while having an insanely good build path that lets you get the best of hp or AP. The slows are way too powerful, especially on ranged aoe spells.

This item needs to be toned down. Everyone is bitching about Frozen Mallet when it's only being built on two champions, meanwhile my grandma built rylais in my oatmeal this morning. Please nerf this item.

145 Comments

La SporkAug 23, 201626 votes

Lmao I love it when the guy who literally mains champions like nasus and cho'gath is complaining about an item that is used to kite.

Definitely not a biased viewpoint, right?

uPLtGcVrnKAug 23, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=La Spork,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wbE7I4I2,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-08-23T21:48:09.654+0000)

Lmao I love it when the guy who literally mains champions like nasus and cho'gath is complaining about an item that is used to kite.

Definitely not a biased viewpoint, right?

This.

HateDaddyAug 23, 201615 votes

{quoted}

This.

So you had to get on your smurf lmfao

And I play tanks like malphite, Maokai and I also play Jax. These aren't champions you "just kite." I think it's funny that a guy who goes by the name "Mage main" thinks his standpoint and perspective on this isn't just as bias, if not more.

Nice try though, I don't need to use my own smurfs to upvote myself or reply to my own comments lmao

DracocrashAug 24, 20163 votes

{quoted}

So you had to get on your smurf lmfao

And I play tanks like malphite, Maokai and I also play Jax. These aren't champions you "just kite." I think it's funny that a guy who goes by the name "Mage main" thinks his standpoint and perspective on this isn't just as bias, if not more.

Nice try though, I don't need to use my own smurfs to upvote myself or reply to my own comments lmao

you have some good points, but calling out "bias" is not valid imo.

WoonStruckAug 24, 20164 votes

Calling out bias is entirely valid considering many of the players trying to refute his claims are thrusting personal opinions that are not grounded in fact at him.

DracocrashAug 24, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Calling out bias is entirely valid considering many of the players trying to refute his claims are thrusting personal opinions that are not grounded in fact at him.

True, but then its not bias. It's a lack of debating skills.

CeexSettAug 24, 20162 votes

That's not bias, that's ad hominem

Bias is having a wrong view of the facts because you are inclined to one of the sides, in this case maining mages or maining kiteable tanks, for example.

ModIts Yuu and MiAug 23, 20168 votes

{quoted}

This.

You really feel so insecure about your post that you have to comment on a smurf people here dont know about to circlejerk yourself. Nice.

Plus you're saying he's biased for being a "kiteable tank main", yet you main mages so by that logic you'd be biased too?

HateDaddyAug 23, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mounting Dread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wbE7I4I2,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2016-08-23T22:28:00.479+0000)

You really feel so insecure about your post that you have to comment on a smurf people here dont know about to circlejerk yourself. Nice.

Plus you're saying he's biased for being a "kiteable tank main", yet you main mages so by that logic you'd be biased too?

Disclaimer: this is not my smurf

ModIts Yuu and MiAug 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Disclaimer: this is not my smurf

Oh yeah if anyone didn't get my point/if I wrote it poorly, I was talking about Ionian being La Spork's smurf.

DænariusKhølerinAug 24, 20166 votes

Oh what he is? That's cringey.

EvewynnAug 23, 201619 votes

There's a reason why people don't really complain about rylais. Even with it, and whatever else "double-dipping items" (you know lifesteal is a defensive stat right?) mages are still squishy and easy to punish when out of position.

Meanwhile, FM encourages permanent stickiness on champs that a team can neither afford to focus nor ignore. Not only that, but it creates an immense amount of control in dueling situations, where the enemy is forced to either win the fight or die due to being unable to run away.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 23, 201615 votes

but some how people dont build item 3009 item 3111

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

HateDaddyAug 23, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wbE7I4I2,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-08-23T22:07:21.420+0000)

but some how people dont build

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Sure they do, but with everybody easily gaining 40% CDR, reapplying the slow consistently is really easy. Then there's mages like Viktor who only need you slowed for that 0.70 seconds to set up his whole convo on you, or his ult which will keep reapplying the slow.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 23, 20169 votes

{quoted}

Sure they do, but with everybody easily gaining 40% CDR, reapplying the slow consistently is really easy. Then there's mages like who only need you slowed for that 0.70 seconds to set up his whole convo on you, or his ult which will keep reapplying the slow.

item 3155 item 3139 item 3156 item 3222 item 3140 item 3211 item 3065 item 1057 item 1033 item 3190 item 3026 item 3102 item 3060 item 3028 item 3174 item 3105 item 3091 man only if there was items that help with magic damage too

HateDaddyAug 23, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wbE7I4I2,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2016-08-23T22:17:49.550+0000)

man only if there was items that help with magic damage too

Hmm because item 3135 doesn't exist at all.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 23, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Hmm because doesn't exist at all.

just like with adcs who can crit alot and shred tanks you build a combination of hp and mr not just flat mr or flat hp . league is a game of rock paper scissors with concepts of chess. and as far as item 3135 item 3116 i would go item 3111 item 3065 item 3156 item 3026 item 3139 item 3083 problem solved.

HateDaddyAug 23, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wbE7I4I2,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-23T22:24:54.942+0000)

just like with adcs who can crit alot and shred tanks you build a combination of hp and mr not just flat mr or flat hp . league is a game of rock paper scissors with concepts of chess. and as far as i would go problem solved.

Okay but you act like I'm complaining about dying too fast when I'm not. I completely agree with this point, this isn't even the point. Mages also won't typically target tanks or bruisers with their burst unless they're brand or high DPS mages.

Anyway, my issue is that the item shouldn't be slowing so much but even then, I'm more butthurt about it giving 100 AP. People aren't even building it for its passive, they're building it for the 100 AP. If AP is that bad on other items, maybe rylais should give 80 AP and other AP items should give a bit more.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Okay but you act like I'm complaining about dying too fast when I'm not. I completely agree with this point, this isn't even the point. Mages also won't typically target tanks or bruisers with their burst unless they're brand or high DPS mages.

Anyway, my issue is that the item shouldn't be slowing so much but even then, I'm more butthurt about it giving 100 AP. People aren't even building it for its passive, they're building it for the 100 AP. If AP is that bad on other items, maybe rylais should give 80 AP and other AP items should give a bit more.

100 ap by itself not worth the cost 3200? item 3165 is 300 less gold at 2900 and provides 100 as well. so its not the 100 ap that is the issue. it dont provide cdr, mana regen, reduced healing, magic pen or % bonus ap. i would argue that item 3135 for 80 ap and 35% magic pen at 2650 is too cheap.

HateDaddyAug 23, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wbE7I4I2,comment-id=0008000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-23T22:36:06.261+0000)

100 ap by itself not worth the cost 3200? is 300 less gold at 2900 and provides 100 as well. so its not the 100 ap that is the issue. it dont provide cdr, mana regen, reduced healing, magic pen or % bonus ap. i would argue that for 80 ap and 35% magic pen at 2650 is too cheap.

Void staff isn't being build every game because it's passive actually matters

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Void staff isn't being build every game because it's passive actually matters

start stacking item 1033 and it will be. item 3135 item 3089 should be core on all ap carries. not ap bruisers/tanks. but ap carries. like crit and armor pen is core on all adcs

HateDaddyAug 23, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wbE7I4I2,comment-id=000800000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-23T22:45:34.296+0000)

start stacking and it will be. should be core on all ap carries. not ap bruisers/tanks. but ap carries. like crit and armor pen is core on all adcs

And rylais shouldn't be being built every game then, even on champions who really don't need it.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

And rylais shouldn't be being built every game then, even on champions who really don't need it.

ok i have a solution. lets remove all cc , all targetable abilities including auto attacks and make everything a skill shot?

but for real if they nerf the ap to 80 and the hp from 400 to 300 and have the same cost of 3200 no one not even tanky ap champs would get the items. so where is give? if they take away the essence of the item which is to provide slows then the item should be deleted. if they keep the stats as is and increase to the cost to 3500 then its to costly to justify the item. but if they nerf the ap and hp from it and lower the cost inline to say item 3165 which is 2900 then it wouldnt stop the so called abuse of the item cuz you still have the slow passive you still get 80ap and 300hp for 300 gold less.

HateDaddyAug 23, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wbE7I4I2,comment-id=00080000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-08-23T22:59:11.398+0000)

ok i have a solution. lets remove all cc , all targetable abilities including auto attacks and make everything a skill shot?

lol that's not what I'm saying or implying. It's an item that's supposed to be for catching and kiting but champions who don't even give a damn about that because they already have that ability built into their kits are building it. It's a common item on almost every Mage. There's no way that's not a problem. It's because it shouldn't be giving 100 AP, period. Reduce it to 80 AP, keep the HP and readjust the cost. There, I'm totally fine with the item.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 23, 20163 votes

{quoted}

lol that's not what I'm saying or implying. It's an item that's supposed to be for catching and kiting but champions who don't even give a damn about that because they already have that ability built into their kits are building it. It's a common item on almost every Mage. There's no way that's not a problem. It's because it shouldn't be giving 100 AP, period. Reduce it to 80 AP, keep the HP and readjust the cost. There, I'm totally fine with the item.

if you lower it to 80 ap and still have the same passive it will still be bought, there are other items that give the same 100 ap. so therefore its not the ap that is the issue. now that you understand that. if we reduced to 80 ap 400 hp and the same passive andhave it lowered to 3000 gold to justify the nerf of ap it would be picked just as much and not the 1st item every game so the same issue would exist.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Ok so it's being bought for the HP as well. Nobody gives a damn about the slow, which has been my point the entire time. Some champions do, but most of the champions building it don't care and traditionally haven't built it. I wouldn't mind it being built as often if it only gave 80 AP because the loss of 20 AP is pretty significant, even with a cost reduction.

no its is cuz of the slow and how it applies to all abilites now it got its slow passive reworked. when riot re did the ap items.

if it had no slow and had 100 ap and 400 hp it wouldnt be as popular. it is the fact that people can get the item and provide slows and kite to death with ease. it is all about the passive.

An Undead bratAug 24, 20162 votes

I build it only and for that passive and if my champ has enough slows in kit, I rather build Luden or a tank item.

Only Play DariusAug 24, 20168 votes

Swifties got nerfed to the gutter and Tenacity means little when the slow gets reapplied as soon as it expires

oSEXYPLATYPUSoAug 24, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wbE7I4I2,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2016-08-24T05:04:56.208+0000)

Swifties got nerfed to the gutter and Tenacity means little when the slow gets reapplied as soon as it expires

i never said item 3116 wasnt being abused i just simply was arguing the fact there are things in the game you can use to limit the slows of it.

the OP got to the point that he said it wasnt the slow passive he was concerned with it was the 100 ap. and i argued that people can careless about the 100 ap alone its the fact that it does have the slow passive.

but any item that gives movement speed would be a counter to slows. because if you move fast and a slow is applied you are still slowed yes but not as slowed as if you had no movement speed items

WoonStruckAug 24, 20163 votes

The problem is more that Riot is taking items with very powerful passives/actives and making them some of the strongest stat-sticks as well.

Look at Scimitar previously. Maw. BC. Trinity. Rylai's. Ghostblade.

Its been absurd since the Juggernaut update.

Kanzaki RankoAug 24, 20165 votes

I can name a decent amount of mages that don't build Rylais

What I can't do is name a decent amount of mages that don't build rylais and are good right now

Very Hard EngageAug 23, 20163 votes

its just straight utility which is needed to deal with all the melee that has such an easy time reaching a squishies face.

looking at the raw stats and cost of the time, its pretty justified, you're paying extra for the "oh thank god i got out" moment.

you need to complain about the outliars who run the item for god kiting with 100% uptime on the slow. because most mages like victor, xerath, veigar cant reliably keep you slowed.

personally, if any nerf is to be considered, it should either have a slightly higher combine cost (515, upped to the 800's/900's range) or perhaps less health.

resumedAug 23, 201612 votes

400 hp and 100 ap isnt exactly utility

Very Hard EngageAug 23, 20161 votes

builds from large rod > thinks its not going to have at least 100ap.

why not complain about morello, 100ap at 2800 cost. and 20% cdr.

health is a utility stat on a mage, not a combat stat, mages aren't meant to sit in fights for long periods of time, just enough to survive someones burst when they get caught. mages shouldn't be getting hit at all.

unless ofc were talking about the outliars who are abusing the item Swain AurelionSol Malzahar but the biggest of them all being Azir who in of itself is just a BS champ who has too much to offer.

resumedAug 23, 20163 votes

several things;

i didn't complain about rylais.
this item is core on several champions i play
morello and rylais are incomparable
rylais is being built on a lot of champions and even on supports such as zyra and brand
morello is not build on supports, and not particularly good on any of the meta midlaners
grevious wounds is not as annoying to deal with as a slow

Very Hard EngageAug 23, 20164 votes

zyra and brand have great synergy with the item and have built it since as long as it was an item and they were champions.

its core because its useful, the 2 mages you mentioned in particular have no escapes, if something reaches their face they have to kill it first or they die, rylias gives them the chance to get away or even keep them away.

100ap, there are better damage dealing options out there like i dont know item 3001 item 3003 item 3089 item 3151 item 3100 item 3165 item 3135 item 3285

as ive stated, they're building it for the passive, kiting, and just "yay i got out moments" not the stats. 400 health is less than 1 auto attack from an ADC, its not going to matter, armor matters, not health.

HateDaddyAug 23, 20165 votes

{quoted}

zyra and brand have great synergy with the item and have built it since as long as it was an item and they were champions.

its core because its useful, the 2 mages you mentioned in particular have no escapes, if something reaches their face they have to kill it first or they die, rylias gives them the chance to get away or even keep them away.

Yeah, these are also two of the most dangerous champions to "just dive" because they can catch you in their aoe and gib you.

100ap, there are better damage dealing options out there like i dont know

Abyssal is stupid too Literally nobody builds Seraphs because it's not worth stacking unless you're Anivia, Karthus kr maybe kassadin Rabadons needs you to stack AP, rylais/rabadons isn't uncommon Liandrys sucks Most mages can't utilize lich bane well Morellos is pretty good Void staff requires you to have a nice chunk of AP to be useful Ludens doesn't give you 400 hp

Stop being delusional, these items are not better than rylais and half of them are hardly built compared to rylais, which is being built by almost every Mage.

as ive stated, they're building it for the passive, kiting, and just "yay i got out moments" not the stats. 400 health is less than 1 auto attack from an ADC, its not going to matter, armor matters, not health.

No, armor and health together matter, which is why between zhonyas/rylais and zhonyas/abyssal, mages can actually be relatively durable.

Very Hard EngageAug 23, 20162 votes

and if zhonyas/rylais are their first 2 items they're dealing crap for damage. they aren't alone in killing you.

or unless you're something like i dont know... nasus without a reliable gap closer and they took 30seconds to kill you with 4 rounds of abilities. and 0 MR on the enemy nasus. which amazes me that they have the mana for all those rotations.

HateDaddyAug 23, 20163 votes

{quoted}

and if zhonyas/rylais are their first 2 items they're dealing crap for damage. they aren't alone in killing you.

That's 170 AP, with runes/masteries that's probably around 200 AP. For two items, 200 AP is pretty decent. You'd blow up most squishies with this setup on most mages.

or unless you're something like i dont know... nasus without a reliable gap closer and they took 30seconds to kill you with 4 rounds of abilities. and 0 MR on the enemy nasus. which amazes me that they have the mana for all those rotations.

So again, this is pointless because you're bringing something totally irrelevant into the discussion. I'm arguing with facts, please try to do the same.

PermabannedGarenAug 23, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Literally nobody builds Seraphs because it's not worth stacking unless you're Anivia, Karthus kr maybe kassadin

Cassiopeia Ryze

TeCoolMageAug 24, 20162 votes

Liandry's is good, Void Staff is made for lower AP high base damage builds, Luden's Echo gives lots of damage, and Tear's refund passive alone makes it worth a buy on more champions than those that can stack it

resumedAug 23, 20162 votes

i have no idea how to respond to this

the items you're mentioning arent being built on every single champion the way that rylais is. the slow isn't comparable to any of the passives on the items either because rylais provides a form of crowd control and enables the user of the item to kite and position with ease

if people want rylais for the utility, they should have to pay with their ap. rylais shouldn't be 100 ap

Very Hard EngageAug 23, 20161 votes

ok, build it from a blasting wand and make it a ~~2700 cost item, cut its AP in half for all i care, it would still be built for kiting.

resumedAug 23, 20163 votes

yeah

thats what people want it to be built for

HateDaddyAug 23, 20166 votes

{quoted}

its just straight utility which is needed to deal with all the melee that has such an easy time reaching a squishies face.

TIL 100 AP and 400 HP is just "straight utility"

looking at the raw stats and cost of the time, its pretty justified, you're paying extra for the "oh thank god i got out" moment.

you need to complain about the outliars who run the item for god kiting with 100% uptime on the slow.

Or aoe spells shouldn't be slowing for 40%

Very Hard EngageAug 23, 20165 votes

slowed by 40% for 1 second, on which they need to wait at least another 6 seconds to reapply such a slow. or land another skill shot

HateDaddyAug 23, 20165 votes

{quoted}

slowed by 40% for 1 second, on which they need to wait at least another 6 seconds to reapply such a slow. or land another skill shot

lol

TIL Every Mage has 6 seconds between one spell and another

Very Hard EngageAug 23, 20164 votes

on average yes, someone like lux/veigar have much higher than average CD's. even ahri has 7seconds on her Q.

you are talking about the outliars who can reliably keep it up all the time. "not every single mage"

HateDaddyAug 23, 20164 votes

{quoted}

on average yes, someone like lux/veigar have much higher than average CD's. even ahri has 7seconds on her Q.

you are talking about the outliars who can reliably keep it up all the time. "not every single mage"

Yet, champions like veigar are still building it. And by the way, once again, cooldown reduction. That 5 second cooldown on Q goes to 3 seconds and he only needs to land 1 to force you into his cage. Then it's good night sweet prince.

I'm not even mad about the slows either honestly, it's totally fine to me. I'm not mad about the cost. The item shouldn't give 100ap. Other AP items should give more so rylais isn't the big focus when many champions are buying it and don't give a damn about the slow.

Very Hard EngageAug 23, 20163 votes

oh so now we want 3 item combinations where were reaching late game.

let me go ahead and list all the shenanigans other champs abuse which just so happen to piss me off.