In Solo Queue, is Team Builder the true test of skill?

RookPusher··20 votes·3,015 views

I think I speak for most people when I say that Ranked Draft Pick has a lot of great aspects to it before the game begins. The back and forth of counter-picking, getting a decent team composition together, combining both to minimize your disadvantages while maximizing your advantages - it's all a fascinating strategic icing on the otherwise really great cake of the MOBA design. If I had my druthers, I'd play Ranker Draft Pick constantly.

But the truth we face on a daily basis is that there are jerks out there that, for various reasons, get a lot of joy from ruining your game. And if you're in promos, more the better. And since it's almost impossible to rid solo queue of jerks (unless we implement paid, ID-backed accounts) I'm wondering if people are starting to see Team Builder as the real test of skill in the game aside from pre-made matches. More importantly, I'm wondering how it can't be.

All too often people are told which spot is available only to find out that the Morgana who was first pick, didn't say anything, and then is AFK for the rest of champ select was top lane. Or that the auto-locking Shaco is ADC. Nevermind when someone completely disregards that someone ahead of them called a position, took it with an appropriate champ, and then the person after them took the same position because "This is what I'm best at."

Team Builder, to me, allows for room to breath and buy into games where the meta is being broken intentionally. And it lets them leave without punishment from a game where the risk seems too much for their stomach. And that benefit goes both ways. I'm fine with meta-breaking. I'm having a ton of fun running Anivia support currently, and I'm doing so with a team who's agreed to go in with me. If another player doesn't want that champ supporting they can leave which I'm fine with because I don't want him in the game screaming his head off. At this point in the scheme of things, I'm not sure there's a reason for me to play Ranked because the disadvantages far outweigh the fun.

People complaining that they're trapped in ELO Hell because of trolls, feeders, and AFKers may or may not be accurate. Many times I've seen people respond "If you're really good, you can play your way out of it." I'm sure you can, but the better question is "why would I want to?" I didn't come here to test my patience against jerks who enjoy schadenfreude. I came to see if my map-awareness, decision making, and strategy were up to snuff. I came to try new champs in different positions, and see if I was capable of adjusting when the plan wasn't working out.

tl;dr - I'm not making a grand pronouncement here, but to me if you enjoy MOBA's and are juggling school, work, friends, and other hobbies, there's zero reason to ever play ranked again. I'm just wondering what the argument against that is. And furthermore, why can't we put in Ranked Team Builder.

34 Comments

Drunk Rummate12 votes

stuff i like about teambuilder:

  1. you can hop around until you find a composition you like
  2. you always get to play the role and champion you want

stuff i don't like about teambuilder:

  1. there's no pick-ban phase. warwick + akali every game >=[
  2. matchmaking is really screwy due to being based only on the role that you queue as
  3. you can't queue with a friend unless you make your own team
  4. very long queue times for any role that isn't jungle or support

i think if they added a pick-ban phase to teambuilder i'd stop playing regular draft pick games entirely. matchmaking will fix on it's own... eventually... assuming the mode gets popular enough. the only issue that would cause is that you obviously wouldn't get to play the champion you want if it gets banned. and then you run the issue of people picking troll champions for their chosen role since you can't easily determine beforehand.

the only issue outside of that i see that can easily be fixed are the queue times for roles that aren't in demand. i think if riot offered incentives to play less popular roles (such as bonus IP) it would really improve queue times.

Flemman1 votes

i think if they find a way to solves problem number 3, the queue time will improve greatly as well

League of Potato2 votes

the only way I could see rito adding team builder to ranked is if you choose what position you want before hand (mid, jungle, adc, etc) and then after you get a team together you go into the pick/ban stage

I'm sure this could work

Drunkueid1 votes

This would be extremely easy for Riot to implement. And while it doesn't solve all our problems in ranked mode, it does help to avoid miscommunication ("hey I thought I was going top!") and makes troll pickers easily identifiable (picks jungler role but takes Soraka).

AMYS GRAVE7 votes

I view team builder as the way lol was meant to be played. while you don't get to try to counter pick, you can build a team around strengths and are then tested if a counter to your champion shows up in front of you. there is no fighting over lane or position, if you don't like the team comp or your team is toxic pregame you can dodge with no penalty, you have all the time to discuss strategies before your team queues up which promotes communication and teamwork, it's great.

RoyaiChaos1 votes

But it isn't optimal. For example, I often vary my champion picks depending on what my team needs or what the enemy team has. Without that part, League just lost a whole lot of strat and I think would most likely lead to less diversity in both personal picks and overall picks (because there would be really no reason to pick any champion other than the one you are best at).

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

i think it could be adapted so you queue up as a bot lane support, then pick the champ there. i think the strategy will change from counter picks to team comp picks so you wont pick the same champ all the time, the reasons for the variety (teamwork) would just change.

SmokingPuffin6 votes

Team builder can't be the true test of skill because no counterpicks and no bans. It's very much about what champions are generally strongest against some random opponent.

For serious play, you have to be able not just to make your own decisions, but also react to your opponent's decisions.

Also, team builder matchmaking is the most hilariously busted thing ever for high elo players. Every other game is a hopeless stomp with 4 diamonds on one team and 0 diamonds on the other.

I think of team builder as a really great place to try new things and learn new champions. It's basically replaced blind pick for me. Draft mode is the serious business competitive game, though, no question about it in my mind.

Rock Rockburgh1 votes

It's the most busted thing for low-elo players too, and for the same reason.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

always felt like "skill" was mechanics only. Banning and picking is like Pokemon or CoC, pure brain...

SmokingPuffin1 votes

always felt like "skill" was mechanics only. Banning and picking is like Pokemon or CoC, pure brain...

Mechanical skill is a small slice of total skill in League. Even in highly mechanical games like Starcraft, there is a great deal of skill found in decision making elements.

Epilogue of Life1 votes

I see. Just personally don't respect brain at all lol since I became all stupid from studying for SAT

Robot Beat Rally2 votes

[deleted]

Avious3 votes

Comparing bronze V to any other division outside of bronze should be a punishable crime... Especially above Gold. Bronze V and Platinum V almost the same? What are you smoking?

TheSaltyScourge1 votes

Are you stupid?

Robot Beat Rally1 votes

[deleted]

TheSaltyScourge1 votes

No, I am fairly well educated and generally pretty "street-smart" as well.

Not if you think a bronze player is anywhere near as good as a plat player. Some people are better than others. Get over it.

Terff1 votes

Imo teambuilder is the best, you can queue dodge without penalty, you can go whatever lane you want, it gives a lot more freedom to the player.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

Ranked teambuilder is just a bad idea. You'll slow down queue times Firstly - and they're never going to get rid of Draft because that's the real game.

Also this game isn't about being good at just 1 role, it's about being good across the map. Sure, there are pros who only play 1 role on their team, but they probably play multiple roles in solo queue challenger play, and they definitely played multiple roles when climbing the ladder. Playing multiple roles helps you learn the game and get better at your preferred role. E.g. You'll become a better adc by playing support. You'll also become a better adc by playing top, mid, and jungle. Learning how other roles act in a game let's you react optimally.

I understand that you're not saying you want teambuilder because you want your preferred role all the time - you do make really valid points as to why you enjoy it More, but putting teambuilder in ranked will allow people to play 1 role only and climb when they know nothing of other roles. Also, teambuilder would have the same trolls - they won't go "mid or feed" but they'll just feed, or take something that looks conventional and then say they're breaking the meta by building their adc as a tank, or going support in the mid Lane. The reason trolls are in ranked is because that's the easiest place to infuriate people, making ranked teambuilder will just relocate the trolls.

I'm glad you enjoy teambuilder and encourage you to keep playing it as that's clearly the best choice for YOU. It doesn't mean it's what is best for league though.

Cale0171 votes

It would be if Teambuilder weren't currently a cesspool of gimmick teams and no one wanting to play support.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the idea of Teambuilder. I was overjoyed when it was announced, but the community has very quickly turned it into a very horrible thing. It's great if you want to try out a specific champion in a specific role, but beyond that it's very meh. More often than not I've had to fight against four or five man teams who queue up in teambuilder when they really don't need to just to have an advantage against teams that are composed of total strangers.

It seems like there are just as many people abusing the system as there are trying to use it well.

SH Azykan2 votes

but 5 man premades exist in blind as well, and are generally even more devastating. Team Builder levels the playing field a little bit against those premades because of actually making sure you get a comp you are comfortable with (if you arent good with the comp, you can reque easily)

gimmick teams are better there too because you have to have people completely willing to go with it. Team Builder > Blind pick for everything except que time.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

gimmick teams are the best, if a team cant deal with a gimmick then maybe they don't deserve to win. if a team goes 5 man support or five man adc and play honestly there is no abuse there. team builder allows for these kind of creative team comps that draft mode just doesn't encourage.

Cale0171 votes

True, and gimmick teams can be a lot of fun. But it's because they aren't encouraged or supported by the more competitive minded modes that it can be a bad thing for people trying to get in more legitimate practice as they're now in a situation that they wouldn't find themselves in during a ranked match.

Case and point, I recently played a Diana match in teambuilder where the enemy team went four supports and a Nocturne, all with TP and smite. I ended up going massively positive, and got my first pentakill ever in almost two years of playing League. And while it's still nothing to scoff at, I did have to work for it, I'm not even sure if that penta counts for anything because of the sort of a game I got in it. I didn't feel like I got any better at playing Diana, just that I was against people that couldn't do anything to stop me. And it very easily could have been the opposite, where every member of an enemy team running a gimmick has a way to shut me down with whatever champion I'm playing, another case where a situation is happening that wouldn't be seen any other time.

If you're trying to practice, it's the worst possible environment to be in.

Kats Pajamas1 votes

Ladies and gentlemen, there is only one reason people play blind pick. Q time. This has been this way over a year.

Rock Rockburgh1 votes

Well, that may be the only reason that a large number of highly-experienced players play Blind Pick. I personally play it because I don't know either the Rift or counterpicks well enough to play draft. In draft, you have to pick against whatever your enemy has, and what they're likely to take in the future-- because if you don't, they will.

Volt Cruelerz1 votes

pretty borders? Also, the whole draft pick thing is really enjoyable personally and you actually know how you stack up against people. Don't get me wrong, I play mostly teambuilder. Would love if I had some idea of where I was placing on it though...

Budupops1 votes

Shaco adc works fine, stop hating...

BlackMagicWilson1 votes

I would love to see some form of Ranked Teambuilder to be tested soon.

CoolKnightST1 votes

Why whe don't make a event out of it. Let's say every week between time x & y where ask players to make a room. Why request they tried to spreat the role trafic to support>adc>jungle>mid>top so whe can achieve the goal of perfect Q times for every role.

youngjake931 votes

Teambuilder makes more sense for Solo-queue and Draft makes more sense for pre-made. I'm pretty sure the only reason teambuilder isn't that popular is queue times and no elo tracking to see progression. Obviously there might be a ranked teambuilder with short queue times if more people started playing it, but not as many people want to play it in the current state. After reading this thread, I think I'll start playing more of it. #breakthecycle #playmoreteambuilder

Draft pick is probably better at the moment. Team builder won't be taken seriously until riot allows players to queue for positions without picking a specific champion and then throwing players into a pick/ban phase.

I like this idea

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