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@Meddler @Morello As we continue to slowly but surely remove silences from the game

HateDaddy··2 votes·643 views

Is there ever going to be a similar approach with blinds? I realize Malz, Cho, Soraka, Garen and Blitz currently have silences and Sorakas is the only one with any real outplay potential. I also realize Malz, Garen and Cho specifically depend on these mechanics, which is why simply removing them isn't a feasible solution. It's borderline rework status.

But for blinds, to the best of my recollection, the only champions who have them are Teemo and Quinn. And you could argue Quinn and Teemo have them as a part of their kits as almost a necessity.

I'd love to remove them from the game entirely and much like the champions with silences currently, I realize it's not as simple as just removing them and being done. I also realize this probably isn't something high on the list of priorities because there's so few of them and there on champions who aren't really even competitively viable. But blind is an extremely frustrating mechanic that doesn't feel good to have happen to you, much the same way silences are. I'm just curious if there are any plans on eventually addressing them?

27 Comments

Terff3 votes

Heimer lost his blind ages ago.

DrCyanide2 votes

You're mistaken in thinking that they're trying to remove silences from the game. They might rework the silences, but they'll not remove them.

Heimer doesn't have a blind.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

You're mistaken in thinking that they're trying to remove silences from the game. They might rework the silences, but they'll not remove them.

Heimer doesn't have a blind.

You're right, I am mistaken about Heimer. I don't know why I even thought this. I'll update the OP.

As far as silences, they are getting removed in many cases as it's an extremely frustrating mechanic. Every point and click silence has been removed, eventually I suspect they'll do the same to the champions mentioned above or they'll give them the soraka treatment. I would like to honestly see the same with both Teemo and Quinn. You could argue removing their blinds and buffing them in compensation would make them much stronger overall.

7ha7guy7771 votes

Fiddlesticks point and click potentially multi-target silence

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Fiddlesticks point and click potentially multi-target silence

Yes and it's cancer as fuck

DrCyanide2 votes

You could also argue that there should be more Blinds in the game, due to them being a counterpart to Silences.

Silences were only removed from Kassadin Leblanc and Viktor , if memory serves me right. These champions all had a common play pattern, involving massive amounts of burst damage in a very short time frame, with the silence preventing any escape or retaliation. Viktor got a channel interruption as compensation.

Chogath is probably the closest to these champions in terms of burst, but his lack of range and mobility means he needs to line everything else up in order to burst you down (silence first, then everything else or knockup, then silence), thus making him less likely to remove his silence.

Fiddlesticks can only pick one target for his silence, and is unable to burst you without something else having gone horribly wrong first.

Malzahar is a wall based skillshot with enough warning to avoid it. If you're going to complain about anything with him, it's his Ultimate, but I doubt such a signature move is going away any time soon.

Blitzcrank lets be honest, his silence exists for him to chain CC you. If they remove his silence, they'd probably have you stunned after the pull, which would be worse rather than better.

Garen it's his only CC. Are you really saying he should loose his only CC?

I also think you're mistaken in believing that a frustrating mechanic is inherently bad for the game, or that it should be removed. If that was the case, then Teemo would have lost his ultimate ages ago.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

You could also argue that there should be more Blinds in the game, due to them being a counterpart to Silences.

Silences were only removed from Kassadin Leblanc and Viktor , if memory serves me right. These champions all had a common play pattern, involving massive amounts of burst damage in a very short time frame, with the silence preventing any escape or retaliation. Viktor got a channel interruption as compensation.

Chogath is probably the closest to these champions in terms of burst, but his lack of range and mobility means he needs to line everything else up in order to burst you down (silence first, then everything else or knockup, then silence), thus making him less likely to remove his silence.

Fiddlesticks can only pick one target for his silence, and is unable to burst you without something else having gone horribly wrong first.

Malzahar is a wall based skillshot with enough warning to avoid it. If you're going to complain about anything with him, it's his Ultimate, but I doubt such a signature move is going away any time soon.

Blitzcrank lets be honest, his silence exists for him to chain CC you. If they remove his silence, they'd probably have you stunned after the pull, which would be worse rather than better.

Garen it's his only CC. Are you really saying he should loose his only CC?

I also think you're mistaken in believing that a frustrating mechanic is inherently bad for the game, or that it should be removed. If that was the case, then Teemo would have lost his ultimate ages ago.

I disagree completey that blinds need to exist more. You did forget Talon but that's ok, your general statement was well understood.

Here's the thing: I'm not saying you can just remove these silences and suddenly they're ok, there would be compensation (huge compensation because they depend on them) in return. And blitz doesn't need his silence, plain and simple.

Silences aren't a good mechanic, period. Yes there are frustrating mechanics but they offer gameplay. There's not much gameplay behind eating a massive AoE silence and being unable to cast spells or Summoners for 2 seconds. Not only is that frustrating gameplay, thats bad gameplay. Like I said, a good change would be channel interrupts as I made the statement that silences are probably the biggest "up yours" to the Kat and fiddle ults.

DrCyanide1 votes

Silences aren't a good mechanic, period. Yes there are frustrating mechanics but they offer gameplay. There's not much gameplay behind eating a massive AoE silence and being unable to cast spells or Summoners for 2 seconds. Not only is that frustrating gameplay, thats bad gameplay. Like I said, a good change would be channel interrupts as I made the statement that silences are probably the biggest "up yours" to the Kat and fiddle ults.

By your definition of good and bad mechanics, are Stuns and Knockups bad mechanics in the game? They're both like a Silence, Blind, and Root all combined into one. One of them can't even be reduced by tenacity.

What about Entangle, which is a Root and (effectively) a Blind in one?

What about Fear and Charm, which prevent you from attacking, casting spells, and force you to move in a given direction?

What about Polymorph, which prevents you from attacking or casting spells?

If I'm understanding you right, all of these mechanics are bad for the game, but they're fundamental to League. Blind and Silence are interestingly enough closer to the Soft CC side of things than the other CC I listed here.

IcyPepper2 votes

I realize Malz, Cho, Soraka, Garen and Blitz currently have silences and Sorakas is the only one with any real outplay potential.

I dunno. Look, I don't mean to offend but if outplay potential is "walk out of the Equinox" then cc'ing or avoiding Garen despite the MS boost is fair. Not quite sure about Cho, Malz, and Blitz since they are pretty reliant on combos to get that silence (at times, not always, but I get where you're getting at here).

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

I dunno. Look, I don't mean to offend but if outplay potential is "walk out of the Equinox" then cc'ing or avoiding Garen despite the MS boost is fair. Not quite sure about Cho, Malz, and Blitz since they are pretty reliant on combos to get that silence (at times, not always, but I get where you're getting at here).

Garens is probably ok tbh

But sorry, Cho and Malz' silences have zero outplay potential. If the cho/Malz player isn't a potato, they're easy Skillshots to land. Blitz has no reason to even have a silence, if he lands a pill and combos his E correctly, you're not going anywhere.

IcyPepper1 votes

I'm going to be honest with you: I hate Blitz's ultimate. A thirty second cooldown at first rank with no cooldown reduction needed with 250-500 + 100% AP aoe silence. Sure, he needs to land that grab or get close, but it's still absolutely disgusting. That thing is a death sentence if he lands a grab and it's ALWAYS off cooldown.

But I see what you mean. Malz and Cho are a bitch. I don't hate 'em, but a good one will be a huge bitch to you.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to be honest with you: I hate Blitz's ultimate. A thirty second cooldown at first rank with no cooldown reduction needed with 250-500 + 100% AP aoe silence. Sure, he needs to land that grab or get close, but it's still absolutely disgusting. That thing is a death sentence if he lands a grab and it's ALWAYS off cooldown.

But I see what you mean. Malz and Cho are a bitch. I don't hate 'em, but a good one will be a huge bitch to you.

Yep, nothing more frustrating than closing in on an enemy and using an ability to pin them down only to realize in 0.5 seconds, a random Blitz ult silenced you and completely threw off your time. And in reality, no blitz players can say they're consistently quick enough with the silence on his ult to have an intended impact with it. It's just randomly there.

It's completely unnecessary to have in the first place, it's why they removed Viktors silence. Silence is a bad mechanic in general honestly, I think they need to go more the Kassadin route and give these abilities channel interrupts.

IcyPepper1 votes

Oh god, I'd love it if Blitz's ultimate had a channel to go with effin' low cooldown.

AT LEAST I COULD FLASH AFTER HIS PUNCH+GRAB COMBO. Now that's counterplay, at the very least.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Oh god, I'd love it if Blitz's ultimate had a channel to go with effin' low cooldown.

AT LEAST I COULD FLASH AFTER HIS PUNCH+GRAB COMBO. Now that's counterplay, at the very least.

That's the direction they need to go with them tbh

The downside to removing silences is you remove arguably the most consistent and hard counter to channels and shit like Kat ult.

IcyPepper1 votes

Maybe a .5 second delay? A Kat ulting can't flash out of it if she wants the full damage.

Abyssphere2 votes

They've not said anything about wanting to remove silences from the game - they've only removed the silences held by assassins (Kass, Talon and LB) unless I'm forgetting some? Given that Soraka's very recent rework included a silence I'm inclined to think Riot don't find it an unhealthy form of CC, particularly as it's far easier to silence someone with Soraka than it is with Malzahar (to some extent it's even easier than Cho's). They also considered giving Bard a silence at one stage, if that's of interest.

Blinds I've not seen anything negative written about either, but perhaps I've just not been looking in the right places? They're very rare, yes, but Quinn isn't that old and again, she has one. I don't really see the problem with blinds, why do you think it should be gone? Objectively it's less powerful as a mechanic than stuns and knockups.

This post kinda confuses me. Why do silences and blinds need to be addressed/removed? Does any CC feel good to be hit with? I am pretty sure the only form of CC Riot hates is suppression.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

They've not said anything about wanting to remove silences from the game - they've only removed the silences held by assassins (Kass, Talon and LB) unless I'm forgetting some? Given that Soraka's very recent rework included a silence I'm inclined to think Riot don't find it an unhealthy form of CC, particularly as it's far easier to silence someone with Soraka than it is with Malzahar (to some extent it's even easier than Cho's). They also considered giving Bard a silence at one stage, if that's of interest.

Blinds I've not seen anything negative written about either, but perhaps I've just not been looking in the right places? They're very rare, yes, but Quinn isn't that old and again, she has one. I don't really see the problem with blinds, why do you think it should be gone? Objectively it's less powerful as a mechanic than stuns and knockups.

This post kinda confuses me. Why do silences and blinds need to be addressed/removed? Does any CC feel good to be hit with? I am pretty sure the only form of CC Riot hates is suppression.

Because they're both extremely frustrating mechanics to play against. They haven't officially stated they're removing silences but they've removed them from Kass, Talon, LB and Viktor (yes his old ult had a 0.5 second silence like Blitz does currently). They also changed Soraka's around so it's not a point and click silence.

So removing them is probably a bad way of putting it, they're making them feel like there's more gameplay involved with them. So slowly but surely, they've removed them or changed them to do as such. Blinds, while not powerful, are very frustrating to play against much the same way.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

Because they're both extremely frustrating mechanics to play against. They haven't officially stated they're removing silences but they've removed them from Kass, Talon, LB and Viktor (yes his old ult had a 0.5 second silence like Blitz does currently). They also changed Soraka's around so it's not a point and click silence.

So removing them is probably a bad way of putting it, they're making them feel like there's more gameplay involved with them. So slowly but surely, they've removed them or changed them to do as such. Blinds, while not powerful, are very frustrating to play against much the same way.

I just don't get the frustration thing. To me being silenced is probably one of my favourite type of CCs, in a lot of situations it's preferable to being slowed, even. Blind is even better. I can't understand being frustrated by something that is objectively less damaging than most of the other stuff that could get you. Yes, silences and blinds both say "you can't do X thing" but that's kind of the point of CC. Everything except slows says "you can't do X thing" and most of them stop you doing a lot more things than silences, and especially blinds.

The only problem with silences imo is how long some of them last - 3 seconds is an obscene CC duration, even if it's on a somewhat difficult to land ability like Malz's Q. But that's a case of reducing numbers, not removing abilities. And blinds I legitimately can't fault outside of not being able to last hit on occasion?

Fadedpf1 votes

item 3070 Fiddlesticks item 3070 and hecarim ult +shaco boxes

Anonagon1 votes

I think Blind is a cool mechanic. I don't see a reason why it should be taken out of the game. Of course, I realize that you are a Nasus main, who does all his damage from AAs and most of it from a single empowered AA. But honestly blind is what lets Teemo and Quinn function as almost anti-carries in situations, and its a really cool niche that I think most of their players like about them. You also have to remember that blind is actually incredibly weak relative to what it should do. Tons of shit goes through it. The only thing its guaranteed to block is the base damage of normal AAs. After that its just random interactions. Blind is incredibly generous to the blindee while punishingly inconsistent for the Teemo and Quinn. It might be possible to one day remove blind, but both Teemo and Quinn would need major compensation for that removal and there isn't really a good thing to replace it with.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

I think Blind is a cool mechanic. I don't see a reason why it should be taken out of the game. Of course, I realize that you are a Nasus main, who does all his damage from AAs and most of it from a single empowered AA. But honestly blind is what lets Teemo and Quinn function as almost anti-carries in situations, and its a really cool niche that I think most of their players like about them. You also have to remember that blind is actually incredibly weak relative to what it should do. Tons of shit goes through it. The only thing its guaranteed to block is the base damage of normal AAs. After that its just random interactions. Blind is incredibly generous to the blindee while punishingly inconsistent for the Teemo and Quinn. It might be possible to one day remove blind, but both Teemo and Quinn would need major compensation for that removal and there isn't really a good thing to replace it with.

Blind isn't even that big of a deal as a Nasus player, it's slightly annoying but in the case of both Teemo and Quinn, wither gives me the ability to outlast it. But it doesn't take away from how frustrating a mechanic it is and the fact it's so inconsistent tells you its power power is intended to be generally weak. You can honestly remove both Teemo and Quinn's blind and give them compensation buffs in return that would make them function much better overall (and be stronger).

Anonagon1 votes

What would you put on either of their Qs to compensate for the loss of blind?

Honestly, I think that if blind was worked on to actually work the way it theoretically should (blocking all parts of the damage as well as any additional effects such as red-buff, IBG, Naut passive) it would be an amazing change for both these champions, would further solidify their niche, and make Blind a worthwhile mechanic to consider on new champions.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Pretty sure blinds don't block the bonus Q damage, only the base AA damage, so it's not much going on there against Nasus

Anonagon1 votes

I believe it actually does block it, but it does not consume the buff, so Nasus' first attack after being unblinded will apply it

3TWarrior1 votes

graves can blind you while you're in his smokescreen (technically not a blind but you can't target outside of it), but yeah, blind isn't a common mechanic due to shutting down a lot of fighters and ADCs

1000angrybees1 votes

Heimy doesn't have a blind ???????

Also I'm perfectly fine with healthy silences like Soraka's. I dont really face blinds enough to have an opinion on them.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Heimy doesn't have a blind ???????

Also I'm perfectly fine with healthy silences like Soraka's. I dont really face blinds enough to have an opinion on them.

I fixed the OP, it didn't save the first time when I did it earlier.

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