we have nerfed twitch ad because of his early game

UdoIkOSc4u·Aug 2, 2015·82 votes·4,858 views

meanwhile vayne has the same ad of graves and twitch had a shitty base ad even before nerf not to mention he got hard nerfed when no one complained about him and was picked few times in the lcs i agree with the stealth nerf but not for the other nerfs and twitch has a better counter play than vayne actually and riot should be happy about him not vayne they just lied cause she is a popular champion, if you down vote explain please don't be a vayne main

87 Comments

AzurashaAug 2, 201522 votes

I agree, the only nerf he needed was his stealth.

They should either remove the nerfs to his other abilities or revert the nerf to his stealth. Either one will cause him to see play again, and one of those choices isn't blatantly stupid.

LaceUp23Aug 2, 20159 votes

Here's an option: instead of spamming the boards with nerf Vayne threads, just ban her if you aren't good enough to take advantage of her weaknesses.

Heckin SupportAug 2, 201515 votes

{quoted}

Here's an option: instead of spamming the boards with nerf Vayne threads, just ban her if you aren't good enough to take advantage of her weaknesses.

I hate when people say "just ban her". People do realize not every game isn't a ranked/draft game right?

ShifuneAug 2, 20157 votes

It would be nice if people could put together sentences properly. Reading this is giving me cancer.

Daedalus871Aug 2, 20156 votes

I have a good idea of what the replies will be, but I'm going to give this a shot:

Abuse Vayne's low effective range. Don't try to 1v1 her unless if your an instaburst assassin. Don't try to duel her. Focus her in team fights. Build armor. "But her % true max health". Even if you have 5000 health, that's only about an extra 460 damage, about 150 per AA. AoE her to Death. Even if she is stealthed, you can still hit her. Seriously, she's a duelist. Don't try to 1v1 her.

foinhasAug 2, 20153 votes

So, in order to fight vayne we need to take a tank with aoe burst damage... and tons of mobility to "not 1vs1" I'm not saying that she's strong and needs nerfs, but when the way to counter her is "gtfo and hit with everything you've got", specially when regarding a suposedly glass champ, now there's something worng. In my opinion (it's just my opinion, i'm not asking for nerfs) she does have a bit too much mobility and that stealth doesn't make sense.

I haven't played 5vs5 in a few weeks, so i don't know how's the meta, but i DO remember when vayne was everywhere and it was painfull, man. Basically the game turned from "league of legends" to "capture the flag"... Kill the enemy Vayne while protecting our vayne; and that's booooring!

LowvyrAug 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

So, in order to fight vayne we need to take a tank with aoe burst damage... and tons of mobility to "not 1vs1"

ummm.... no. that's not what he said at all. He said don't try to duel her unless you're a very high damage assassin. He said that even with 5000 health her extra damage is only 460, about 150 per AA, and NOTHING about you needing to be a tank to fight her.

CasterGilgameshAug 2, 20151 votes

but wait so no adc is allowed to be as strong as her we are forced to have an assassin on our team just to kill her late game?

Silents429Aug 3, 20151 votes

You guys are really scraping the bottom to try making her out as an overlord.

CasterGilgameshAug 3, 20151 votes

i don't feel at all good at fighting her no matter what you do she still lives for the late game. where suddenly she just became unkillable and she out damages me even though i was just beating her. fighting her is like fighting a ticking bomb and you know it's going to blow the second she hits 6. i try fighting her with twitch but that doesn't work out she deals more damage to me then i do to her at all stages of the game. i try to out range her late game as jinx but her passive movement speed and dash invisibility ult means she can safely get to me. when i play graves she just out scales me. when i go kalista she still has more mobility than me and she out damages me since she just three shots me at 6 with her true damage and bonus attack damage. when i go ashe i can cc her to the ground IF i can land my ult when she gets her tumble every 3 seconds. overall vayne is extreamly unfun to play as she can just flat out eat every other adc though Draven and Corki seem to handle her a bit better

Daedalus871Aug 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So, in order to fight vayne we need to take a tank with aoe burst damage... and tons of mobility to "not 1vs1"

No, you just need to play half decently.

Abuse her short range in lane. If she wants to get aggressive, its 850. Of course, you could use that against her. If she plays defensive, then its 550. Either way, you probably out range her.
Don't get caught out. She will shred you.
Build armor. FH, Randy's, and Thornmail are your best choices, generally in that order, some exceptions apply.
Focus her in team fights. She's an ADC and is a major damage dealer. You want to focus her anyways.
Watch you positioning. Especially if you're alone, stay away from walls.
So far as team comp goes, try to get one with AoE cc or point and click. It's not that hard.

I'm not saying that she's strong and needs nerfs, but when the way to counter her is "gtfo and hit with everything you've got", specially when regarding a suposedly glass champ, now there's something worng.

Master Yi is (usually) pure glass. How many champions would you try to 1v1 him with? You wouldn't let him just hit you over and over again. Same thing goes with Shaco, Tryn, or any ADC.

In my opinion (it's just my opinion, i'm not asking for nerfs) she does have a bit too much mobility and that stealth doesn't make sense.

If Vayne has a problem, I don't think it's her mobility. I think it would be her AA-Q-AA-E combo. It's pretty simple and allows her to follow up with more damage, especially if she gets her stun off.

I haven't played 5vs5 in a few weeks, so i don't know how's the meta, but i DO remember when vayne was everywhere and it was painfull, man. Basically the game turned from "league of legends" to "capture the flag"... Kill the enemy Vayne while protecting our vayne; and that's booooring!

I think ADCs in general are much more balanced than they were in the past, so if Vayne is a problem (it's been a while since I played against a decent one) so there is reason to believe that she shouldn't be too big of an issue.

IonChamberAug 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I have a good idea of what the replies will be, but I'm going to give this a shot:

Abuse Vayne's low effective range. Don't try to 1v1 her unless if your an instaburst assassin. Don't try to duel her. Focus her in team fights. Build armor. "But her % true max health". Even if you have 5000 health, that's only about an extra 460 damage, about 150 per AA. AoE her to Death. Even if she is stealthed, you can still hit her. Seriously, she's a duelist. Don't try to 1v1 her.

The problem with what you're saying is this:

Those same reasons why you can't duel her or 1v1 her are the exact same reasons why shes hard to burn down in a teamfight. You'll need to bring a pink for her, and even then she's damn slippery. The has plenty of self peel. And If she has a little bit of extra peel, she's still going to be a problem. Her damage is insane. Even strong burst assassins can have difficulty killing her if she has a good support. It becomes a team effort, which creates a host of other problems if anyone else on her team is a threat.

When you say, "abuse her low effective range," that's all well and good, but vayne has no mana issues. And unless you're sneaky and exceptionally quick, shes just going to tumble and return all the damage you dealt and now she's in range and you're not going to outdamage her early so shell pop a few more shots as you try to walk away.

Now it used to be before they nerfed other adcs that she had a hard time in lane. But now every time she pops up I almost always in ranked see, "double kill."

The big problem with this is she'll get her bork relatively quickly, and once she gets that she's already becoming a monster.

Vayne is no longer a late game monster, she's now a mid game monster and a late game goddess. And early game If she plays decent, she's going to get kills. F*** condemn.

AdanimAug 2, 20154 votes

Vayne has plenty of weaknesses. People who complain about her are just trying to not put any effort into learning how to fight her because they feel entitled to win every game and win every match up. Learn how to play against Vayne, she has a lot of weaknesses.

Silents429Aug 2, 20153 votes

Twitch has more early burst and range potential then Vayne does early on.

But fuck that, keep whining like bitches about Vayne and maybe something will happen right? That solves everything.

SkiasAug 2, 201524 votes

{quoted}

Twitch has more early burst and range potential then Vayne does early on.

But fuck that, keep whining like bitches about Vayne and maybe something will happen right? That solves everything.

I find that very hard to believe, He's a dot based ADC with lower scaling altogether. Vayne has a better early, better mid and better lategame than twitch.

UdoIkOSc4uAug 2, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I find that very hard to believe, He's a dot based ADC with lower scaling altogether. Vayne has a better early, better mid and better lategame than twitch.

that vayne main is lucky you answered well :)

Silents429Aug 2, 201512 votes

Yes that's right anyone who doesn't share your opinion is obviously a Vayne main, despite me never once playing her.

TomatosxAug 2, 20153 votes

y are you so salty

Silents429Aug 2, 201514 votes

Because idiots encourage other idiots that whining on the forums is a good idea if they want a problem solved whether a problem exists or not.

And anyone who disagrees is obviously the main of whoever they are bitching about.

LavanielAug 2, 201510 votes

You be right.

I make a meaningful post about Ashe and how she is not up to par with Jinx and Vayne and other ADCs,

and guess fucking what.

I get downvoted.

I provided evidence and reasons and solutions.

The secret to the forums if you want upvotes is just some shit one-liners and ta-da, 86 upvotes.

Troll for TrumpAug 2, 20154 votes

AShe is really good right now. STill lacks mobility but still, way better than oldschool prereworked ashe. She's in a better state than twitch at least. And urgot. Idk how urgot is still "marksman" I want Draven to be good :I

SinlaireAug 2, 20151 votes

I play with a diamond 5 smurf "i say this because i also have his main friended so i know" and 60-70% of his gameplay is Draven with the remainder being Jayce .

you should see him play Draven. In my opinion he's just fine when a fed one kills you with as little as two spinning axes and 3 if you're the tank.

LavanielAug 2, 20151 votes

Yeah, I don't see Draven being bad at all

Troll for TrumpAug 3, 20151 votes

The problem is how shitty he is when he isnt ahead. Basically if you are 0/2 you will be pretty useless for the most of the game. I liked him a lot better w/ his old passive but he's still pretty good now... just not as good as vayne.

I GANK LANESAug 2, 20152 votes

I get your point but all adc's have their niche, jinx and vayne scale well into late that's true, but neither of them bring the utility that ashe does. Apples to oranges kind of thing

Noam BraumskyAug 2, 20151 votes

Why is this getting downvoted?

Silents429Aug 3, 20151 votes

Do you really have to ask?

AnidanAug 2, 20152 votes

That's because literally every ADC that would have an answer to Vayne has been nerfed.

They really, really need buffed. Nerfing everyone around a champion and then expecting everything to be A-Okay is pretty fucking terrible balance. Right now, Vayne is out of control because ALL of her counters have been nerfed.

Silents429Aug 2, 20153 votes

Some auto attacks coupled with his W slow and E allows him to be a menace early game, this isn't a matter of belief that is just how it is. And Vayne can't do a damn thing about it.

DownfallAug 2, 20153 votes

If you've never once played vayne I don't really think it's your place to talk about what she can and can't do in a lane.

Silents429Aug 2, 20152 votes

I don't need to play her to know what she can do, I have played against her plenty of times however to see what she is capable of.

If I were going to make balance suggestions then I would have to play her.

It's also a fair point that most people complaining about her haven't played her either, much less play bot lane at all.

SkiasAug 2, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Some auto attacks coupled with his W slow and E allows him to be a menace early game, this isn't a matter of belief that is just how it is. And Vayne can't do a damn thing about it.

Twitch's early auto attacks are horrid. He has literally some of the worst early game damage in the game.

Silents429Aug 2, 20152 votes

I was careful to mention at least 2 other abilities of his that greatly help his damage.

7ha7guy777Aug 2, 20151 votes

His E damage isn't that significant until the number of stacks are high. He has 2 ways to increase stacks; autos (550 range) and his W. If you use both W and E to harass you will burn through your mana at an alarming rate for relatively minimal damage.

Silents429Aug 2, 20152 votes

The slow on his W which also adds stacks for his E allows him to land extra auto attacks, Using 2 of his abilities isn't going to destroy his mana pool.

Twitch is capable of hefty damage early on.

7ha7guy777Aug 2, 20152 votes

It's pretty heavily dependant on the matchup. If you're against ashe sona and your support can't heal you, you're going to have a bad time. Sona can harass you with Q without taking minion aggro. Ashe can hit you with W without taking minion aggro or auto you from outside your range and slow you to make it harder for you to get in range. Meanwhile you have to use W to get in range, auto while taking minion aggro and then use E to get off some damage. I'm sure if your support has a shield or some sort of hard engage it isn't too bad but if they're a botlane apc you're not kind of screwed. Proper use of your Q might be able to help get around this by getting into range while stealthed, but takes a while to stealth.

Livin like RivenAug 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's pretty heavily dependant on the matchup. If you're against ashe sona and your support can't heal you, you're going to have a bad time. Sona can harass you with Q without taking minion aggro. Ashe can hit you with W without taking minion aggro or auto you from outside your range and slow you to make it harder for you to get in range. Meanwhile you have to use W to get in range, auto while taking minion aggro and then use E to get off some damage. I'm sure if your support has a shield or some sort of hard engage it isn't too bad but if they're a botlane apc you're not kind of screwed. Proper use of your Q might be able to help get around this by getting into range while stealthed, but takes a while to stealth.

Dependant on the matchup as anything else in the game, of course. If Twitch would be able to do just that in any matchup, that would be the problem imo.

Besides I think that any adc that hasn't Cait's range or Jinx's Q kinda suffers against poke/sustain lanes early on.

Troll for TrumpAug 2, 20151 votes

well people bitched becasue "ERMAHGERD FIORAS HAIR HURR DURR" and riot decided to fix it. Seriously? You are willing to comply to hate about a splash art becasue of a tiny detail, and you won't fix yorick WW or urgot. won't bring back Gp, and for some reason prioritize changing darius, garen, buffing fiora and teemo, and even then you put poppy at the bottom of the list of changes.

Silents429Aug 3, 20151 votes

While Warwick's rework is shelved they are currently working on Yorick, GP I think just has a bug, and this is just a clever coverup.

Poppy is getting a sion level rework before the year ends, and the 4 minor reworks on Darius, Garen, Skarner etc are done by different teams, so no progress is being lost on the other stuff.

MeleeNukeAug 2, 20151 votes

Vayne main alert!

Silents429Aug 3, 20151 votes

I have never played Vayne.

BakedLotionAug 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Twitch has more early burst and range potential then Vayne does early on.

But fuck that, keep whining like bitches about Vayne and maybe something will happen right? That solves everything.

Twitch doesn't have more range until he press R. And thats only for like 8 secs. At level 6. And you said early. Fucking dumbass

Silents429Aug 3, 20151 votes

Except his W and E outrange anything Vayne can do against him.

BakedLotionAug 3, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Except his W and E outrange anything Vayne can do against him.

Wow !! a Slow that does 0 damage. Even if count the poison, it's only like 6 true dmg for like 5 secs. wow 30 DoT damage that a doran's blade can heal through! If he presses E with the two stacks, it'll only like like 60 damage with her base armor. Not to mention you have to use two skills, and half your manapool just to do one auto attack's worth of damage.

I'm assuming you're just a troll.. Or are u really mentally challenged?

HEXXEN9xAug 2, 20152 votes

How to fix Twich- The attack speed steroid should be on his cask and his Q should have zero delay on cast. When your insanely squishy and have details built into his Q to make it that much worse.... total disservice

Ambush

Cost: 60 Mana Range: Self

Twitch becomes invisible for a short duration and, while invisible, he gains Movement Speed. When leaving invisibility, Twitch gains Attack Speed for a short duration.

After 1.5 seconds of not taking damage or after 6 seconds, Twitch turns invisible for 4/5/6/7/8 seconds.Twitch gains 20% Movement Speed while invisible and gains 30/40/50/60/70% Attack Speed for 5 seconds after coming out of invisibility.

bloody hell, 6 seconds O.o. He died at 2 seconds!

Oh riot will you comment on twitch any time this year ?

gl0hs0zgfAug 3, 20152 votes

Don't think Riot watches streams. Maybe the individual people, but I don't think the Riot Twitch account will be commenting anytime soon.

FantasySniperAug 3, 20152 votes

Pre-6:

Vayne No steroids, situational CC, 100% reliant on the third hit.

Twitch AS amp + Stealth, AoE slow + stack applicant, just hitting once applies true damage.

gl0hs0zgfAug 3, 20152 votes

You could say Vayne's tumble counts as a steroid as it deals some extra damage, but Twitch's true damage is only noticeable at max stacks, by which point Vayne will have already proc'd W twice, dealing more true damage (though Expunge will close the gap).

Though both champions' laning sucks. Their kill potentials are terrible unless in the right situation (for Vayne, when the enemy is close to a wall. For Twitch, when he can AA the enemy alot, but neither of those situations present themselves often) and both are completely autoattack reliant. So I'm fairly surprised to hear that Twitch is getting nerfed, he's pretty bad already, even if his late game is darn good.

FantasySniperAug 3, 20151 votes

But... Twitch isn't getting nerfed.

Twitch has more kill potential than Vayne pre-6. A well placed Cask or well timed Ambush is all he needs to kill someone in conjuction with his support. Twitch also has a higher base AS than Vayne, so he gets 6 hits off faster no matter what. Vayne 100% needs that wall to get a kill, even with a support, and most of her kit's budget has been stuffed into her Silver.

ofartAug 3, 20152 votes

I feel Ezreal needs a minor buff too. His base AD is fairly low (50) and it's not like he has on-hit effects, great scaling or high range. Twitch needs a similar treatment. They hurt him too much just because he was annoying to deal with.