So cho'gath, lets talk about this

Xavanic··3 votes·1,232 views

So ive been playing league since season 3, and my favorite class has always been bruisers/tanks, and cho has been one of my favorite champs for a while (I do play assassins aswell, but they have been getting nerfed too much lately for the risk to be worth the reward), now cho, we should know exactly why people say hes op (possible 2.5k true dmg ult), now do i think this is unhealthy? no, why? because adcs are growing increasingly strong and scale faster, this is a problem, while there is little you can do to outplay chos ult, it brings an element to address the growing adc problem, as these adcs cant just kite a 2k dmg ult (to be fair, alot of these adcs whining about cho are the ones that build PD, DD, GA and wont exchange any of those items for a proper defensive item), but this does not mean it lacks counterplay, while the damage is high, the rest of his kit lacks consistent power, his E does start to do a decent amount, but its kite-able, His q only scales off ap, but a good one can be a game decider, his W is the same as his Q, and simply building say, a Frozen mallet, takes away his one shot (and for the mages whining, RoA, Liandry's, Rylais exist, use them) So why am i talking about Cho like this? I feel cho is a template riot should use for new tanks/updates, as having the power to elimate carries late game is hard, (even assassins are struggling to do it now), but giving immobile tanks the ability to do just that could surely spice up the game, and slowly force adc out of always being the go to role for bot, also perhaps force carries to build more defensively, ultimately balancing out their damage Now I know im on the unpopular end of the spectrum for with this opinion, but personally, i dont care, i just wanna see tanks be more then damage sponges, (esp with alot of games giving tank classes similar treatment lately)

25 Comments

Eedat2 votes

"everyone should suffer because ADCs"

How about hell no? Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Cho isn't ulting the ADC every time. No tank should EVER be able to one-shot point and click someone while building full tank

I feel cho is a template riot should use for new tanks/updates

HELL. NO. Cho is the example of what Riot shouldn't do with new tanks

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

"everyone should suffer because ADCs"

How about hell no? Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Cho isn't ulting the ADC every time. No tank should EVER be able to one-shot point and click someone while building full tank

HELL. NO. Cho is the example of what Riot shouldn't do with new tanks

Tanks die in 3-4 seconds to adcs right now, and mages have tons of health options, so do fighters, so its not like these champs are getting gimped, (Adc's are the only class causing issues) so unless riot plans nerfs (which since the adcs are their favored class they won't nerf) we need ways to address them, just look at how unfair trist/cait/kalista/lucian/ashe/ezreal/varus/vayne are rn vs basically any melee champ, im sorry, but we are devolving into league of adc

Also, cho is the prime example of a tank, they should DEFINITELY use him as a template, giving tanks melee burst will make them feel like a threat and not just CC bots

Anadanament1 votes

Except that's the point - adc's need to be able to deal with tanks like that right now, because, for some dumbass reason, tanks can nuke a carry out of existence just as quickly. You think it's fair that a tank should be able to nuke a carry but then cry when the carry can out-dps the tank? EDIT: Tanks AREN'T MEANT FOR DAMAGE. If you wanna be damaging and still be tanky, play a juggernaut. Then I can point out to you next week when you post about how juggernauts have no CC that that's kinda the point - Juggernauts are supposed to be easily kitable BECAUSE they can nuke squishies with no problem.

dunder kill2 votes

How about we don't give point and click true damage nukes to tanks? Seems kind of obvious that it's a garbage mechanic and a mistake. Tanks should not be given fuck tons of damage for building tank. That's so stupid

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

How about we don't give point and click true damage nukes to tanks? Seems kind of obvious that it's a garbage mechanic and a mistake. Tanks should not be given fuck tons of damage for building tank. That's so stupid

Not saying give them all point and click, but i am saying reward them for building tank with dmg, i understand adc mains like being able to just stand there and kill tanks, but this isnt healthy, you wanna play adc, you need to kite, end of story, adc facetanking should always result in the adc losing, regardless of how fed they are

dunder kill3 votes

reward them for building tank with dmg

This is so fucking dumb it blows my mind. So what your saying is that instead of just nerfing ADCs, we should fix the problem with metric fuck tons of damage creep. Tanks should not get ANY damage for building tank let alone bullshit point and click nukes

Why don't we just delete fighters while we're at it? We'll just give tanks twice as much damage as them plus fuck tons of utility and survivability. Let's just make picking anything besides a tank top a reportable offense for trolling. Let's just undo the Cho and Ornn nerfs so that they auto win against every melee in the game again.

This is legit one of the dumbest ideas I have ever seen on this board to date. Tanks already do WAY too much damage but fuck it, give them a fuck ton more for good measure.

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

This is so fucking dumb it blows my mind. So what your saying is that instead of just nerfing ADCs, we should fix the problem with metric fuck tons of damage creep. Tanks should not get ANY damage for building tank let alone bullshit point and click nukes

Why don't we just delete fighters while we're at it? We'll just give tanks twice as much damage as them plus fuck tons of utility and survivability. Let's just make picking anything besides a tank top a reportable offense for trolling. Let's just undo the Cho and Ornn nerfs so that they auto win against every melee in the game again.

This is legit one of the dumbest ideas I have ever seen on this board to date. Tanks already do WAY too much damage but fuck it, give them a fuck ton more for good measure.

Yes, because i mean give tanks a 120% health ratio on all abilites.....no....what i mean is give tanks an execute ability or burst ability that scales with their defensive stats (Cho R, Voli E), when tanks have no damage the class isnt played outside of competitive play, why, because your now relying on your adc/mid who could play like a mentally handicapped monkey to do damage, this isn't proper gameplay design, in alot of games now a days tanks are being given damage because of this, and if they have no damage, they aren't perceived as a threat, why, because their armor will be nullified late game by lord doms, (with the exception of Malphite who can hit 700 armor), and your quote on nerfing adcs, i will say this once more, RIOT WONT NERF ADC'S, with some minor tweaks riot rarely straight out nerfs adc's (IE, if they nerf trists damage, they will also buff the items she builds, so shes doing even more damage, making her nerf redundant) even though the class needs a class wide adjustment to deal with crit, they just wont do it

dunder kill1 votes

Volibear is a Juggernaut. Second, if you don't want to rely on your team doing damage, then don't pick a tank. Why the fuck should we give tanks the damage of a bruiser or juggy while they get to keep everything else? Please explain to me why we should just completely invalidate all melee fighters instead of just nerfing ADCs? Please explain. You seem to forget that the other top laner is going to be the one dealing with you by far the most. So to achieve your dumb fantasy of tanks one shotting a squishy (which is sooooooooo insanely stupid to begin with) one or two times in a game, let's just completely delete every other top laner that isn't a tank. Explain to me how fighters are going to deal with these monstrosities that out damage, out sustain, out survive, and have way more utility than them? The whole damn point of these classes is that they sacrifice durability and/or utility for more damage and your solution is fuck it give the tanks their damage too?

Seriously hands down one of the absolute dumbest thing I've seen on the boards. The fact that people think like this is frightening.

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

Volibear is a Juggernaut. Second, if you don't want to rely on your team doing damage, then don't pick a tank. Why the fuck should we give tanks the damage of a bruiser or juggy while they get to keep everything else? Please explain to me why we should just completely invalidate all melee fighters instead of just nerfing ADCs? Please explain. You seem to forget that the other top laner is going to be the one dealing with you by far the most. So to achieve your dumb fantasy of tanks one shotting a squishy (which is sooooooooo insanely stupid to begin with) one or two times in a game, let's just completely delete every other top laner that isn't a tank. Explain to me how fighters are going to deal with these monstrosities that out damage, out sustain, out survive, and have way more utility than them? The whole damn point of these classes is that they sacrifice durability and/or utility for more damage and your solution is fuck it give the tanks their damage too?

Seriously hands down one of the absolute dumbest thing I've seen on the boards. The fact that people think like this is frightening.

Im using tanks as a general term, (juggarnauts/Wardens/Vanguards) while not all of them should be given the defense scaling, (ones like taric rely on team buffing), ones that dont have team based buffs, def need the damage, if you want me to get technical i will, Vanguards and juggarnauts should be given defense scaling ratios Also once again, riot wont nerf adcs, Also tanks are supposed to be bursty anyways, so i really dont know what world you come from....the term tank derives from military tanks that are heavily armored and can obliterate a house, but must reload in between shots, which i feel tanks should get just that, a large amount of burst once every 15-30 seconds

Anadanament1 votes

This isn't the army. Tanks in this game are meant to soak up damage and CC and shrug it off like it's nothing... if you don't find that rewarding to play, then play another position. There is absolutely no reason a tank should be able to burst someone like it's nothing. That is unbalanced. That is not what a tank is for.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Having the power to eliminate carries is good. Having the power to nuke anything with an undodgeable ability is not.

And ADCs can't afford to go into "proper" defensive items. DD/PD/GA are the only ones they can actually do, because otherwise they have too little damage.

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

Having the power to eliminate carries is good. Having the power to nuke anything with an undodgeable ability is not.

And ADCs can't afford to go into "proper" defensive items. DD/PD/GA are the only ones they can actually do, because otherwise they have too little damage.

Mallet exists, it gives them 700 health, plus 30 AD, that health will allow them to survive the ult

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Except it's just not a working item for an ADC...They lose out on stats they need in the meantime for some later health.

Besides, it lets them survive his R. But that means he just has to EQR...

Xavanic2 votes

{quoted}

Except it's just not a working item for an ADC...They lose out on stats they need in the meantime for some later health.

Besides, it lets them survive his R. But that means he just has to EQR...

Tbh, most adcs have ways to stay away anyways, if people cant adapt to building against their oppnenents line ups, rather then following some cookie cutter build then they deserve to get one shot by a tanks ult

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

{quoted}

one shot by a tanks ult

I have several things I'd like to point out here.

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

I have several things I'd like to point out here.

The problem is, these people are stubborn and will still go for the same build path when facing cho, and when they do, they deserve to get one shot, league is supposed to be a game that combines 3 elements, Skill, Information, and Teamwork, The ability to adapt your build to deal with the enemy is part of the skill section, Frozen mallet is still an item that exists, it can mitigate his ult while making it easier to kite him, and it still gives damage, but adcs refuse to buy it for some reason (apparantly they have to go the 100% Crit build they learned NB3 and cant make compromises??)

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

thing is. you can't really kite cho if you're in range of him as the adc. unless the support just has infinite peel he's going to slow you, stun you, knock you up while slowed, and then take a bite out of you, and frozen mallet is far less effective on ranged champions for obvious reasons anyway.

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

thing is. you can't really kite cho if you're in range of him as the adc. unless the support just has infinite peel he's going to slow you, stun you, knock you up while slowed, and then take a bite out of you, and frozen mallet is far less effective on ranged champions for obvious reasons anyway.

So its perfectly fine ppl literally build the same thing on champs every game without compromise? no...cho is the game changer, and the main reason hes so strong rn, is because people refuse to adapt and just think hes gonna get nerfed, personally, i feel cho should just not see any nerfs at all and more tanks/juggarnauts should be brought to his level, because im tired of losing games because i get an idiot adc who refuses to make compromises, and yes, alot of adcs can kite cho, and with all the mobility adcs have rn, no idea how ppl are even getting caught, personally, we need more champs like cho to force the class to either adapt and stop building straight damage or stop being played, personally, i dont care which, i just despise adcs with a passion, and i can even kite cho when playing adc, if these ppl cant, then they need to get banned for being boosted

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

the main reason he's so strong right now is he's allowed to get in range, and riot took away the one thing keeping his feast stacks somewhat balanced which was his ability to lose them, and then instead of nerfing the stacks a bit now that they're infinite and can't be reduced, they fucking buff them. I get he was too weak before, but it's a classic example of riot going too far in the other direction.

Kazekiba1 votes

I miss item 3156 and item 3053 on ADCs.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

the big problem these days is apparently righteous glory was uncovered in whatever crypt it was left in the past seasons and now all those tanks that the adc could leisurely kite before pose a threat now hurtling at them at 200 miles a minute. "melee range" takes on a different meaning when melee means the olaf's axe is now up your arse and as much peel as I have as the support it never seems to be enough.

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

the big problem these days is apparently righteous glory was uncovered in whatever crypt it was left in the past seasons and now all those tanks that the adc could leisurely kite before pose a threat now hurtling at them at 200 miles a minute. "melee range" takes on a different meaning when melee means the olaf's axe is now up your arse and as much peel as I have as the support it never seems to be enough.

I do agree glory needs a tone down, but it is very easy to just stun the tank when their approaching

Kazekiba1 votes

Dont you remember when RG gave the entire team a 60% movespeed boost and then permaslowed you? New RG is borderline useless in comparison

Xavanic1 votes

{quoted}

Dont you remember when RG gave the entire team a 60% movespeed boost and then permaslowed you? New RG is borderline useless in comparison

Yeah, but on champs like cho, its still a threat as he can run down alot of adcs

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

man even if they nerf the single target move speed, I hope they can bring back the team wide speed now that the coin upgrade is gone.

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