Can we please end this horrid early game meta

Xavanic·Jan 16, 2017·144 votes·4,554 views

Its not fun, as you lose because someone got ahead and just snowballed out of control, not because they have more skill at the game then you, like there are tons of people I have seen who are terrible, but snowball off cleanup kills and half the champs now days dont even need skill, they need to be fed and have a braindead monkey slaming the keyboard, thats it, if you believe you have skill when you win at 18 minutes in, you dont....you got lucky and snowballed, thats it, please start draining early game power from some of these champs and shift it back to a 35-50 minute meta riot, the game just doesnt feel like it should anymore Edit: I can't believe this got so many upvotes

98 Comments

idontgiveabotherJan 16, 201736 votes

I dream of a day where dying once in lane won't lose the entire game and where me getting first tower is a freebie. One day... one day...

I want the comeback challenge. I want to have to make decisive calls and use my brain to make up strategies. Then you realize the other team just got first tower bot and you're fucked. Today was the only day where I had ONE game that was actually challenging and engaging.

SoI invictusJan 16, 20179 votes

Yea yesterday my bot lane got ganked and both died. After that their bot and jungle got the tower. IN MIN 5.

Yosuke ApperuJan 16, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Archmage Lux,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ueMMrKpP,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-01-16T09:20:51.739+0000)

Yea yesterday my bot lane got ganked and both died. After that their bot and jungle got the tower. IN MIN 5.

I lost tower at 8 minutes, it was almost full hp before the zac ganked and they got a double... WITH IN THIRTY SECONDS they took the damn tower.

3TWarriorJan 16, 20172 votes

3 minutes in...4 man gank bottom with heavy crowd control... first tower lost

that is so not how league should be played XD they won, of course, but come on...

Gregor GysiJan 16, 20173 votes

I dream of the day where my team is able to properly snowball off an advantage by rotating properly and systematically taking objectives. But no, it tends to turn into clown fiestas and the team which doesn't throw at Baron wins the game.

There is a reason why high elo games are shorter than low elo games.

JJI744Jan 16, 20173 votes

Its possible that in some ELOs this is the case. You are not playing in those ELOs. In fact, most of your recent (last 10 ranked) games have been rather back and forth. I think there were two matches where a clear snowball happened where one team got ahead and then jsut kept pulling further and further ahead until victory.

Frankly, your (you, personally) games are much more prone to being decided by a shocking comeback than by snowballs.

Touch My BoxJan 16, 201713 votes

And as for OP, I agree to an extent.. you don't even need to make a mistake.. they can just have a better early and get dragon and first tower.

First tower has a 70% win rate, so only imagine what it would be for both.

DrCyanideJan 16, 20174 votes

To be fair, First Tower had about a 70% win rate before the changes to tower first blood. I think it's mostly a psychological effect right now, with a bit of extra gold to make it feel real.

XavanicJan 17, 20173 votes

the elemental drakes i feel are one of the most oppressive factors, you can get all the ocean and cloud drakes you want, 1 infernal outweighs 3 of each of those, meaning if they steal that infernal or sneak it, the game just got 8% harder, i want the old dragons back where you didnt have to worry about them stealing infernal or sneaking it at 8 min with shyvana or shaco

Touch My BoxJan 16, 201711 votes

Meddler is a turd who doesn't even play this game, so he doesn't see it as a problem.

Covert Ops GnarJan 16, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=Its Not Shacko,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ueMMrKpP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-16T03:21:01.669+0000)

Meddler is a turd who doesn't even play this game, so he doesn't see it as a problem.

I played against him in ranked and pooped on him with urgot

Touch My BoxJan 16, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Covert Ops Gnar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ueMMrKpP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T03:47:00.023+0000)

I played against him in ranked and pooped on him with urgot

Hes legit garbage, 38% win rate ATM someone how still g4. top kek

Covert Ops GnarJan 16, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Its Not Shacko,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ueMMrKpP,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T03:47:57.274+0000)

Hes legit garbage, 38% win rate ATM someone how still g4. top kek

http://imgur.com/a/zjXLE

TsunderellaJan 16, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Covert Ops Gnar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ueMMrKpP,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T03:48:47.659+0000)

http://imgur.com/a/zjXLE

Incoming Leona buffs and Urgot nerfs

Faceroll TacticsJan 16, 20173 votes

Being good at the game and understanding the game are two things.

Mechanics can be 2/10, Knowledge can be 10/10

Why do you think most coaches for pro teams are plat or diamond while the players are high masters or challenger

BIackfoxJan 16, 201710 votes

Agreed. They need to make comebacks actually possible

RlP K0BEJan 16, 20178 votes

Why all the Meddler hate? The guy is always on the boards answering questions and providing balance information to the players. Stop being ungrateful.

CanastusJan 16, 201712 votes

Just because he's more active than his collegues doesn't excuse his unreasonable concepts of balance. We're talking about a man here who refused to hotfix or buff champs who were sitting in the gutter for over a month or even longer while giving hollow promises to their playerbases.

I remember very well how he handled Cassiopeia back in 2015 after she got gutted into unviability, around 9 months before her second rework. He said he'd look into buffing her and for about 3 months we waited for anything to show up on the PBE, yet nothing happened. I made sure to remind him multiple times but he flatout ignored any callout despite being confronted with clear evidence.

And it got EVEN worse when her second rework hit the servers. Meddler sincerely believed her to be in an okay state while sitting at a 32% winrate. That's the kind of deluded mind we're dealing with here. The same also goes for RiotRepertoir who ignored any reasonable feedback just to waste over a month of precious time until someone from the balance department (yes, this guy literally abandoned her after fucking her up) finally took care of his trainwreck just to make her somewhat playable again.

RlP K0BEJan 16, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Just because he's more active than his collegues doesn't excuse his unreasonable concepts of balance. We're talking about a man here who refused to hotfix or buff champs who were sitting in the gutter for over a month or even longer while giving hollow promises to their playerbases.

I remember very well how he handled Cassiopeia back in 2015 after she got gutted into unviability, around 9 months before her second rework. He said he'd look into buffing her and for about 3 months we waited for anything to show up on the PBE, yet nothing happened. I made sure to remind him multiple times but he flatout ignored any callout despite being confronted with clear evidence.

And it got EVEN worse when her second rework hit the servers. Meddler sincerely believed her to be in an okay state while sitting at 32% winrate. That's the kind of deluded mind we're dealing with here. The same also goes for RiotRepertoir who ignored any reasonable feedback just to waste over a month of precious time until someone from the balance department (yes, this guy literally abandoned her after fucking her up) finally took care of his trainwreck just to make her somewhat playable again.

You realize champions getting nerfed or buffed does not fall on the shoulders of Meddler right? I don't even think he has the final say on that stuff (GhostCrawler is the lead design director). The balance team as a whole works on it so blaming just Meddler isn't fair.

CanastusJan 16, 20178 votes

I realize that he's preoccupied with other stuff but the least he could have done is to give a response or excuse, yet he didn't do anything like that which was extremely disrespectful to those whose hopes he nurtured just to abandon them completely. Also the way he behaved when it came to the second Cass rework only solidified my negative impression of him.

FflarnJan 16, 20176 votes

While the early game snowball nature of the game may or may not be bad or fun depending on your perspective, you have to know Riot isn't going to change anything due to the eSports side. We know that they want games shorter with more fighting as this is what they have determined (probably through statistical polling) viewers want to see. This is why the base turret lasers are gone, it allowed the game to be stalled out.

And while I often agree with you that this meta can be a bit unfun, so was the old one hour long Moscow 5 games with 5 guardian angels, or the even older CLG HotshotGG Nidalee farm fest into throwing spears over a wall ad nauseum.

XavanicJan 17, 20174 votes

They want to stop these 45 min 5 ga stall outs....remove the item, and if their only gonna balance around e sports, sooner or later the game will begin to fade as its lifeline, the 300 million people who play will just begin to lose interest and find other things which will result in riot beginning to lose money, i have never been in such a state where i actually was on the brink of quitting since i started playing, this isnt league of legends anymore, this is a steaming pile of shit

ZT XperimentorJan 16, 20176 votes

Agreed; I miss when games required skill & strategy, instead riot just wants whoever has the higher sugar rush to win. And it's no surprise the game has become increasingly dull when the games start matching que times, lol.

The TrentJan 16, 20174 votes

Literally the only champions I don't have fun playing against are the early game ops:
Pantheon Camille Hecarim Annie Syndra Renekton Poppy

And Vayne has too safe of a early game to have such a powerful late game tbh.

LupusAkiraJan 16, 20174 votes

too safe? how so? You mean the vaynes you play against don't try to trade with Caitlyn Zyra ? say it ain't so! Vayne is so ez to kill pre 6 it's not even funny.

JoeMGJan 16, 20174 votes

Zyra 's early game alone makes me item 3070 up.

The TrentJan 16, 20174 votes

{quoted}

too safe? how so? You mean the vaynes you play against don't try to trade with ? say it ain't so! Vayne is so ez to kill pre 6 it's not even funny.

No I mean her stun/knock back and q that any mediocre vayne could use to dodge any of Caitlyn's or Zyra's skills. She's not easy to kill 6 unless she's a bad Vayne.

LupusAkiraJan 16, 20172 votes

Her E has a high cooldown that can easily be taken advantage of. I would argue that vayne takes a higher level of skill to play safe than other adc's right now. And what would you have riot do about her being "too safe"? she can do very little about Blitzcrank Nautilus Thresh when their Q's land and gets chained cc'd by the adc especially Caitlyn who can place a trap almost instantly directly under her feet or Jhin 's E or even Jinx Traps. Not to mention all the free poke Caitlyn can get off if Vayne doesnt stand outside her auto range. Literally all you have to do is catcher her out for 1 second and land a skillshot.

LeonerdoJan 16, 20174 votes

Just yesterday someone on these boards was complaining that it was too hard to solo carry. Of course solo carrying is only possible if you're snowballing. So essentially he wanted the opposite of what you want.

Makes me feel better about thinking we're already in a decent spot, in regards to game pacing at least.

Gregor GysiJan 16, 20173 votes

No, people on the boards want to be able to solo carry but don't want the opponents to be able to solo carry. Or in other words: they want to win games and get elo for free because they can't right now.

XavanicJan 17, 20172 votes

I want these games to be decided by skill, not by whos playing the most snowbally champions

devdev463Jan 16, 20173 votes

You know what feels worse? Playing a 50 minute game only to lose because of one team fight. We had that in season 5 and it was cancer.

CasterGilgameshJan 16, 20175 votes

i would love if there was a happy middle ground were matches ended at 30-40 mins.IMO i kinda found long extended games to be fun though

XavanicJan 17, 20171 votes

Well losing a game like that generally means the enemy had a higher skill level, and as such deserved the win, losing at 20 min because annie or renekton are 18/0 isn't because their skilled, its because the champions have such overloaded early games and strong snowball potential that they just become outright unstoppable and tear apart the cardboard cutouts we call towers along with the team that is 4 levels below them

devdev463Jan 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well losing a game like that generally means the enemy had a higher skill level, and as such deserved the win, losing at 20 min because annie or renekton are 18/0 isn't because their skilled, its because the champions have such overloaded early games and strong snowball potential that they just become outright unstoppable and tear apart the cardboard cutouts we call towers along with the team that is 4 levels below them

Wat.

XavanicJan 17, 20172 votes

When I lose a game at 45 min it feels like I was out-skilled, when I lose a game at 20 min I feel it was because riot doesnt understand how to balance their own game....does that simplify things?

devdev463Jan 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

When I lose a game at 45 min it feels like I was out-skilled, when I lose a game at 20 min I feel it was because riot doesnt understand how to balance their own game....does that simplify things?

The notion that getting a lead over your opponent doesn't take skill is just absurd.

XavanicJan 17, 20172 votes

9 times out of 10, its not skill, its simply because someone either feeds a champion or my laner is much stronger in the early game then my champion....you also have to take into consideration junglers will generally babysit the most snowbally champs and when its someone like lee sin theirs not a whole lot you can do unless you have godlike reaction times

Gregor GysiJan 16, 20172 votes

{quoted}

half the champs now days dont even need skill, they need to be fed and have a braindead monkey slaming the keyboard, thats it,

Which champs are you referring to? Azir? The easiest champions in the game are the old ones, like Annie, Warwick, Garen etc. Newer champions tend to be much harder.

if you believe you have skill when you win at 18 minutes in, you dont....you got lucky and snowballed, thats it, please start draining early game power from some of these champs and shift it back to a 35-50 minute meta riot, the game just doesnt feel like it should anymore

No, that's not lucky, that's skill. When a game gets dragged out that usually means that the winning team sucks at closing out, hence Challenger games are much shorter than Bronze games. From what I've seen all the early losses in low elo stem from surrendering/giving up. Unless one team surrenders/gives up games go about 35+ minute clown fiestas because everyone is unable to actually take objectives.

Asayake 5150glowJan 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=404 shitlord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ueMMrKpP,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-01-16T11:19:54.040+0000)

Which champs are you referring to? Azir? The easiest champions in the game are the old ones, like Annie, Warwick, Garen etc. Newer champions tend to be much harder.

Camille

Gregor GysiJan 16, 20172 votes

She is simply overtuned. But even then she is still harder to play than Garen or other older champions.

Asayake 5150glowJan 16, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=404 shitlord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ueMMrKpP,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2017-01-16T16:31:31.182+0000)

She is simply overtuned. But even then she is still harder to play than Garen or other older champions.

Barely, she's pretty easymode as champions go. She's no Fiora or Riven.

Gregor GysiJan 16, 20172 votes

I'd say she is similiar to Irelia. Also, OP said "half the champions nowadays" and most newer champions are pretty hard to play compared to the many older ones.

SpecterVonBarenJan 17, 20172 votes

The issue isn't so much early game champs, the problem is that there's so much damage in the game right now that it's incredibly easy to get to the point where you have the minimum amount of damage needed to kill everything. Reduce the amount of damage in the game and early game champs would actually fall off instead of winning the race early and just waiting for the enemy to catch up.

XavanicJan 17, 20172 votes

You also have the infernal drake unbalancing the game, the first tower gold, first blood gold, which begins to add up to giving a massive advantage, on top of the fact towers are made out of cardboard now a days, imo if you want to push down towers early, you should have a team focused around that, not just get them because their just stationary minions with larger hp bars

Wolf QueenJan 16, 20171 votes

They apparently had more skill then you in order to snowball off of killing you? If you were better you would have killed them, and i guarantee you when your the fed one on the team you'll be talking shit all game about how good you are and how your carrying your whole team, etc etc.

The DeckownerJan 16, 20171 votes

Rito hate long games because it makes esport boring (players play more conservatively when games are long). They don't really care about casual play when it comes to direction of the game.

XavanicJan 17, 20172 votes

Welp, they should, since their playerbase who hates this meta will begin to move on